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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
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Fox is exciting. I think I'm going to try to use him a little.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
After watching Zeton's Fox I was soooooo tempted..
But didn't. I kinda' wish I did.
+ what Reflex said about Luigi is correct.
He's got the right tools once he's able to approach, but yeah the approach part is what will kill you.
But didn't. I kinda' wish I did.
+ what Reflex said about Luigi is correct.
He's got the right tools once he's able to approach, but yeah the approach part is what will kill you.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I agree with yonder.
hes not that great, but nobody below him is any better currently.
also, zeton and kain make me want to play spacies even more than I do now.
hes not that great, but nobody below him is any better currently.
also, zeton and kain make me want to play spacies even more than I do now.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
To be honest I'm surprised Luigi isn't on the very top of C tier as he really is the guardian of the gates into B tier. With that said though I think there are characters below him that can jump over but I only bring that up because I use one of them.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Yeah Kid, trust me, so do I. I've been playing more Wolf as is, just cause Kain.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Yeah, my mind fluctuates on this possibilty alot, this is exactly how I think sometimes about him, other times I think not...
Have you tried spacing bairs? His bair has great range and is hard to punish if spaced right. Fireballs add a little pressure too, but shouldn't be relied on solely.I wish Luigi had a means of approaching without his silly Down-B, but he just doesn't. Mixing up airdodges only gets him so far. Great traits otherwise, but when you can't get close enough to use them, they become useless.
Don't think I've seen you say it, but I enjoy the idea.
Luigi would be great if he wasn't so slow in the air and on the ground.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Wario's current placement perplexes me. I foresee a rise in Diddy.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Yeah his aerial mobility isn't very good.
I like him, but I like Mario more. He seems to just glide through the air flawlessly.
I like him, but I like Mario more. He seems to just glide through the air flawlessly.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
If he have say, Wario's air mobility...he would be amazing.
I only play Mario over Luigi sometimes because of air mobility...but my whole game is thrown off with Mario due to that crappy Fair when I'm comboing with Mario then mess up with fair because...it basically sucks, even if it is cool
.
Yes, I've tried. It has good range, speed, power, etc, but it doesn't get you in, which is his problem. It implies that the opponent is letting you get close enough to space B-Air in the first place.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
If you think Mario's fair sucks, you must be using it wrong. For combo's yeah it's not that good. But it's an alright edge guard and mind gameish spike when set up right. (Flood set ups, capes, wall jumps, etc.)If he have say, Wario's air mobility...he would be amazing.
I only play Mario over Luigi sometimes because of air mobility...but my whole game is thrown off with Mario due to that crappy Fair when I'm comboing with Mario then mess up with fair because...it basically sucks, even if it is cool
Agreed.
If you're able to approach with spaced bairs, then that constitutes poor spacing on your opponents part for letting you in.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Of course he does. He is Jumpman after all...
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Eh, with Mario bros my main priority is to lay out combos, and for gimping with Mario, cape and fludd is all I need basically, for the lag the fair has, it doesn't spike nearly as hard as it should like some other meteor spikes out there such as DK's (then again, he has tons of meteor smashes...)
Fair isn't a horrible move...it's just fairly situational, and I find most of his other moves better (Except that undeniably horrible Dtilt)
This may be due to my wifi playing, but have you tried throwing in random rolls? Unless you get extremely predictable with them, they are perfect for getting Luigi on the inside.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
His roll isn't particularly good, though, as far as I know. That works decently in Brawl, but since Luigi doesn't have a truly dangerous means of approaching (airdodge/Down-B/roll), they just need to wait for you to try. Obviously, they'll goad you into trying it, and a roll will work from time to time, but if they're just really safe about it, they should be able to react to it and punish.
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Yeah I feel really open when I roll with Luigi.
And Samus obviously.
And Samus obviously.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I'm just gonna ask you...how low do you think Luigi should be? Since your sorta sounding like he should be among the worst in the game...Doesn't Biglou who plays Luigi give you fairly good matches? (Even if he always came 2nd to you)
Like, bottom of C tier. Maybe even D Tier (but that may be a stretch).
He has SO MANY good traits, but they're all undermined by the fact that he can't get in against almost anyone if they play right.
His jab is amazing, but that's about it as far as offensive mix-ups.
Lounis used to go even with me, but then I realized what I was doing wrong, and he hasn't beaten me with Luigi in at least a full year. It's not even close anymore.
He did beat me in our most recent tournament. It was with Marth/Meta Knight, though. Before that, he started using Snake, too. He realizes that Luigi just can't cut it against many characters.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Reflex, Luigi isn't D tier, although admittedly I only really see Boss and yosh using this character on a serious top level. And while his approach is limited, he isn't without some good options. His F-air is really good, fast, has no ending lag, and decent range. Without this move however he WOULD be D tier. This move is the reason why it isn't completely simple to outzone Luigi with your spacers all day. I don't get why most people think that Luigi relies on B-air spacing. No, his B-air is too laggy to be really good for that (Mario's B-air on the other hand is a different story). Luigi's F-air is a SIGNIFICANTLY better zoning tool.
His vertical spacing options are quite solid as well due to his floaty nature making it easy to space multiple low-lag aerials in a short hop. His frame advantages on block are generally solid as well.
The threat of Cyclone also helps increase Luigi's stage control options, and there is no other character who benefits nearly as much from well-timed Powershields besides like...G&W.
His Jab has really REALLY gdlk range for a 2 frame move that cancels into stuff. Like seriously, the range on Luigi's Jab is just gay.
His vertical spacing options are quite solid as well due to his floaty nature making it easy to space multiple low-lag aerials in a short hop. His frame advantages on block are generally solid as well.
The threat of Cyclone also helps increase Luigi's stage control options, and there is no other character who benefits nearly as much from well-timed Powershields besides like...G&W.
His Jab has really REALLY gdlk range for a 2 frame move that cancels into stuff. Like seriously, the range on Luigi's Jab is just gay.
BigLøu
Smash Lord
Wait WHAT...
Luig's fair is nowhere near as good as spacing as bair, at least bair has range and he can pull away from the situation with hopefully a chance to escape punishment. Luigis air movement isn't good enough to pull back if you make a mistake or if you hit the shield.
Luig's fair is nowhere near as good as spacing as bair, at least bair has range and he can pull away from the situation with hopefully a chance to escape punishment. Luigis air movement isn't good enough to pull back if you make a mistake or if you hit the shield.
I'm very sure that Luigi is nothing to be afraid about. Fair is good... And? I could say the same thing about his utilt, too bad both of them don't work against people who know that spacing against Luigi with disjoints while he's attacking isn't really gonna do much good for Luigi.
Luigi's bair is faster and reaches a bit farther, definitely better than the fair in terms of forcing your way in. Fair even sends em flying away, what good is that if you're trying to get inside and combo them?
And, just fireball + downB all the way. Mindgames will do it for you definitely, out-predicting your opponents will turn your match around... Too bad mindgames isn't what high C-tier characters are about, huh?
Luigi's bair is faster and reaches a bit farther, definitely better than the fair in terms of forcing your way in. Fair even sends em flying away, what good is that if you're trying to get inside and combo them?
And, just fireball + downB all the way. Mindgames will do it for you definitely, out-predicting your opponents will turn your match around... Too bad mindgames isn't what high C-tier characters are about, huh?
Albert.
Smash Master
Reflex what do you think about Marth?
The main problem with Luigi is the top matchups, if a character is good enough to out space Luigi, they will win, outside of the Diddy and Olimar matchup
if Marth and MK did not exist, Luigi would be in B tier, its those 2 matchups + MK and on some stages GaW/Lucario. Without anything good to do in those matchups, he will never advance.
*Edit* Loltypo
if Marth and MK did not exist, Luigi would be in B tier, its those 2 matchups + MK and on some stages GaW/Lucario. Without anything good to do in those matchups, he will never advance.
*Edit* Loltypo
Nah, Luigi just has no chance at all to make it to top 15...
Killing moves? His only reliable killing move is his up-angled fsmash, everything else is either really risky (upB), or lacks a good amount of kill power (everything else)... Up-angled fsmash is very very good though, definitely one of my favorite fsmashes with how it gets faster if you angle it up! That's a very cool tricksy right there. :D
Many ways to get back on-stage? It's always "sideB > downB > upB", then "sideB > upB" over and over again if you're getting edgeguarded... Sure, mix it up and whatnot, but the fact of the matter is, that those two options are all the opponent needs to watch out for. If Luigi is knocked high, awesome, cuz you know you'll probably recover safely from that. if not, tough luck for you buddy.
Good aerials, yeah, I agree. They all have good uses, and his fall speed compliments him perfectly. :D
Good projectile? It depends... Slow-moving, lots of lag, and only goes horizontal. Frame-advantaged approaches are harder with Luigi due to his low-traction compared to Mario, but they definitely get the job done when they're needed! And any projectile is better than no projectile at all (unless it's Kirby's shockwave, completely useless).
Good combos, well, he has very small comboability, but at least he can't be combo'd well either due to his very nice nair.
Luigi's definitely from bottom of C to top of D. There's a couple of characters in C who simply outclass Luigi, like Peach/Sheik/Wolf/Fox (they immediately come to mind).
EDIT: *Man, I somehow rolled down the letters for the tiers and thought S tier was A tier and ended up mixing characters... What was I thinking. :|
B!squick
Smash Master
Dudes, Luigi's Fair is TOTALLY better than his BAir for zoning.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Luigi sux*
It's pretty good at killing, but it's not a good kill move, see? Only way it can kill is if Luigi risks it all and jumps into his enemy/they jump into Luigi, which shouldn't happen at higher %s considering the way you play against Luigi is by out-spacing/outcamping and out-maneuvering him... His up-angled fsmash attacks, kills VERY early and has a very awesome disjoint, then retracts really fast. That's pretty safe, and very spammable due to how fast it is!
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
We never said these were reasons he is bad. It's his lack of a solid approach.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Luigi's F-air has a LOT LESS ENDING LAG, and the key thing about it is that you do it while facing forward. It DOES take some time and commitment to turn around keep in mind, so being able to do things while facing forward has a significant advantage.
F-air is a lot safer and better at breaking zoning than B-air most of the time
Reaching a tiny bit farther and coming out just one frame faster is a poor trade for being forced to turn around and slow your momentum, and then you have to also consider that Luigi's B-air is a pretty laggy move in the air (although it can kinda be used as a pseudo sex kick on the other hand).
F-air has MUCH less commitment, and furthermore is in fact the better combo tool. It sends people more upwards, which helps extend a few juggle combos. B-air combos into...Jab when fastfalled. When you F-air, if you whiff, you can just airdodge after it and rarely ever get punished due to the crazy low ending lag. You're stuck in more lag time when you whiff B-air in the air.
I don't get why people think of Luigi as about B-air spacing when his F-air is clearly the more important zoning option, and a GOOD one at that.
Furthermore Kewky if you're really seriously thinking that Luigi has to rely on just F-smash and Up-B for solid kills, you don't understand how this character works at all.
Player-1
Smash Legend
Wtfffffffffffffffff.
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