The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Kewkky]

Then play MK.

If you agree that to beat MK you have to play as MK, therefore the game will eventually devolve into MK vs MK, then you've pretty much found out why pro-ban wants MK gone.

Pit's planking can be dealt with, and so can his gliding under the stage. However, if Pit scrooges everytime the opponent starts making way towards him in order to avoid all contact except that of his projectiles against the opponent, I'm supposed to be able to call foul on that, because me catching up to Pit is impossible unless I use someone who does it better than Pit (MK is the only other option).


EDIT: Anyway, instead of continuing to talk about MK, let's change the topic. MK already has his own topic (which is huge, spanning over 100 pages of 40-posts-per-page), so that's the place we should talk about him and how he's too good.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Nah. It won't be all MK vs MK.

All matches should now be done on YI:B

 

[Kewkky]

Nah. It won't be all MK vs MK.

All matches should now be done on YI:B

Well now we lost a huge amount of stages for the sake of keeping the game how it is right now. Would you really be happy playing for the rest of your tourney life in YI:B (obv, you're Sonic! Invincible sideBs, man)?

 

[Flayl]

Sonics would still lose against Toon Links. Slanted Down Smash what.

 

[GwJ]

What's stopping you from running off and attacking? Sure you're at a disadvantage but you got him off the edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzpdokjCWg

 

[Kewkky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzpdokjCWg

Why even camp ROB? MK could just uair **** him. Isn't MK ROB's worst MU? The guy should act like it is and do what he's supposed to do. D:

 

[humble]

Wow I spawned alot of debate with my trolling...Kewkky really took up a crusade on this.

I will attempt to define my positions more and explain. Pit, when gliding under the stage, is beatable only by characters with projectiles, and only a certain number of those. Pit can in fact circle camp even metaknight and even meta cannot beat it. Really the two characters with the best chance of beating a scrooging pit are R.O.B and another Pit. I would have to agree that this tactic is illegitimate and something needs to be done, but at the same time we don't want to limit the characters in order to remove tactics. I think that a rule similar to Japans should be created. Also note that one of the best players in Japan, Masashi, is a scroogey pit; Pit is horrendous to fight when he plays scroogey. Scroogey is, to me, avoiding risk and only going for the safest options being a 'scrooge' with your decisions; the term originates from the classic tale of Ebenezeer Scrooge, a man who was very tight with his money and wouldn't give any gifts on Christmas day, until he was visited by the ghosts of christmas past, present, and future (in this case, the SBR) and he became a warmer person and shared his wealth.

 

[Kewkky]

Mk can beat it, humble. Think about it...

MK sees Pit prepare to scrooge, sees Pit start gliding. MK starts running to the opposite side of the stage, and seeing as MK is one of the fastest characters on the ground, reaching the other side before Pit scrooges again is possible. Then, MK jumps offstage and hovers around until Pit's invincibility frames run out.

What can pit do now to avoid MK's inevitable assault?

 

[humble]

Mk can beat it, humble. Think about it...

MK sees Pit prepare to scrooge, sees Pit start gliding. MK starts running to the opposite side of the stage, and seeing as MK is one of the fastest characters on the ground, reaching the other side before Pit scrooges again is possible. Then, MK jumps offstage and hovers around until Pit's invincibility frames run out.

What can pit do now to avoid MK's inevitable assault?

unplug his controller. :V

 

[Kewkky]

unplug his controller. :V

a-HA! Then the MK mainer will grab your controller while you unplug his, and reset the match! And since it's your character that did it, he'll blame you and you'll be disqualified!

See, scrooging should be banned. Look where it led to. :D

 

[humble]

a-HA! Then the MK mainer will grab your controller while you unplug his, and reset the match! And since it's your character that did it, he'll blame you and you'll be disqualified!

See, scrooging should be banned. Look where it led to. :D

Nobody touches my controller. Nobody.

Jail?

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Or in smash terms, nothing. He's just screwed in every way, proving that even a character with nearly the same gliding ability tries to pull a Metaknight, he can only be stopped by... Meta Knight himself. It would seem fate is not without a sense of irony.

EDIT: I had posted this as a reply to "unplug his controller?" The debate's pretty active, and I forgot to quote.

 

[humble]

Its true, Meat beats the tactic.

 

[Kewkky]

Its true, Meat beats the tactic.

So, Pit's scrooging can be beat by some characters, but MK's scrooging can't be beat by others. If we limit scrooging, MK can still touch the floor by flying across the stage in a tornado/something else, landing near the other ledge (far from the opponent, since the tornado has a very fast horizontal air speed), and then grabbing the other ledge, while Pit is forced to land with nothing protecting him at all, raw bait for any other character's punishment.

... And scrooging rules would still be hard to implement in USA, because the only top player to show us what can be done with it efficiently has been M2K, (an MK mainer), so the problem hasn't become ground-breaking yet (like how planking has almost become, making TOs here and there make their own rules against it, usually in the form of ledgegrab limits).


I hope you get how confusing the situation is, humble.

 

[GwJ]

Why even camp ROB? MK could just uair **** him. Isn't MK ROB's worst MU? The guy should act like it is and do what he's supposed to do. D:

Arguably, although I'd personally say it's Zero Suit Samus. But in the end, it's hopeless.

/hope

edit: **** dude. I haven't looked at matchups in a while. I have to go get the ROB boards to continue doing them. I forgot ROB's bad matchups. I can only remember MK, ZSS, and DDD.

 

[humble]

So, Pit's scrooging can be beat by some characters, but MK's scrooging can't be beat by others. If we limit scrooging, MK can still touch the floor by flying across the stage in a tornado/something else, landing near the other ledge (far from the opponent, since the tornado has a very fast horizontal air speed), and then grabbing the other ledge, while Pit is forced to land with nothing protecting him at all, raw bait for any other character's punishment.

... And scrooging rules would still be hard to implement in USA, because the only top player to show us what can be done with it efficiently has been M2K, (an MK mainer), so the problem hasn't become ground-breaking yet (like how planking has almost become, making TOs here and there make their own rules against it, usually in the form of ledgegrab limits).


I hope you get how confusing the situation is, humble.

The only player whose shown it might be a problem is the top ranked player in the world...

And Pit can't get up from the ledge safely, so a scrooging rule would hurt him alot more then MK. xD

 

[adumbrodeus]

Adumbrodeus, I understand the metaphor about infinite invincibility, and also that there are other characters that are capable of doing the same thing... Albeit likely only a few- example being Wario... You ever get camped by a wario on battlefield while using Zelda? I can guarantee you that it's impossible for her to touch him if done right.

I don't see how banning it for MK can be justified when others can practically do the same thing. And this is just one of my reasons. (It'd take too long to explain them all right now, so I'll argue them as they come up. Dx)

And you'd be surprised how much research I've done on this. *hint* *hint*

edit: this post didn't come off as smoothly as I would have liked. Perhaps I should wait till I have regular computer access for me to post much about this subject.

It's not a metaphor, he is, for all intents and purposes, invincible against a large percentage of the cast when scrooging. Any tactic with that effect is banworthy.


As far as on-stage invincibility, it's not literally impossible, just very very hard, You gotta predict him.


Only if it's literally impossible OR always results in stock loss for the person forced to fight the tactic when done properly does the tactic become stalling.



For other character's scrooging, make it global.

 

[Trillest]

Arguably, although I'd personally say it's Zero Suit Samus. But in the end, it's hopeless.

/hope

edit: **** dude. I haven't looked at matchups in a while. I have to go get the ROB boards to continue doing them. I forgot ROB's bad matchups. I can only remember MK, ZSS, and DDD.

+ GnW and i feel falco and Snake have 55-45 on ROB

 

[BSP]

Anyone else think that MK is like a mix of Marth and Pit? He can fly, scrooge, etc. better than pit, and at the same time has enormous priority. Just a thought.

I haven't seen any robs in a while.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Anyone else think that MK is like a mix of Marth and Pit? He can fly, scrooge, etc. better than pit, and at the same time has enormous priority. Just a thought.

I haven't seen any robs in a while.

Pit and melee marth, Brawl marth is way too different.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonics would still lose against Toon Links. Slanted Down Smash what.

Side B>Slanted

 

[TheLastCacely]

When r they updating this? i almost forgot that wario was 3rd, lol he's a terrible char

 

[Spelt]

When r they updating this? i almost forgot that wario was 3rd, lol he's a terrible char

lol elaborate please.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When r they updating this? i almost forgot that wario was 3rd, lol he's a terrible char

Maybe not 3rd best? But define "terrible". My personal definition of "terrible" is lower than C tier, and even if you mean "terrible" in the sense of not being able to win a tournament viably against the other best characters, I'd have to disagree hugely.

 

[Steeler]

umm how is scrooging different from the loops present in temple/summit/etc? :\

 

[Browny]

Scrooging is the exact same as homing attack spam under the stage, except safer, harder to hit and can kill anyone who tries to stop it.

only one is banned... lol

 

[Luigi player]

Scrooging is the exact same as homing attack spam under the stage, except safer, harder to hit and can kill anyone who tries to stop it.

only one is banned... lol

Even though more than 2/3 of the cast could beat homing attack stall...

 

[Heartstring]

Even though more than 2/3 of the cast could beat homing attack stall...

ahh, the logic of the sbr-b...
personaly, i see two choices for scrooging, either make it illegal for meta knight, but not pit.
or you could adopt japan's ruling, which seems pretty fair imo

 

[<π]

don't forget you could just complain about it too. That's a popular choice of action.

 

[Clai]

Scrooging is the exact same as homing attack spam under the stage, except safer, harder to hit and can kill anyone who tries to stop it.

only one is banned... lol

Homing attack spam under the stage isn't banned. In fact, there's no mention of any tactic being banned under the topic of stalling except IDC, but that's listed as its own category instead of being classified as stalling, probably due to the fact that it's a glitch instead of a tactic.

 

[Steeler]

can't you just spotdodge/roll/airdodge as sonic uses homing attack in order to screw that up

 

[BSP]

If Sonic is touching the stage when he HAs, he'll continue to stall regardless of what you do.

 

[Spelt]

you can just run off the stage and then sonic shoots down and kills himself?

 

[Luigi player]

you can just run off the stage and then sonic shoots down and kills himself?

No, but almost all characters have projectiles that can hit him (jump down (charge if possilbe) then shoot it at him), others can glide/have many jumps, ...

 

[Espy Rose]

you can just run off the stage and then sonic shoots down and kills himself?

If Sonic is touching the stage when he HAs, he'll continue to stall regardless of what you do.

This.

Sonic's Homing Attack will continue to clank with the bottom of the level, regardless of whether or not you spot dodge, or go underneath the level.

You have to hit him out of it, or he has to stop HAing completely.

 

[Justblaze647]

Stalling is lame. Don't people know this?

 

[PhantomX]

When r they updating this? i almost forgot that wario was 3rd, lol he's a terrible char

If North Carolina is doing things to where they think Wario is terrible... North Carolina must be terrible, or at least their Warios are.

 

[stingers]

lol

nc doesnt have any warios besides keith, hes just trolling

 

[The Milk Monster]

lol.
Wario is a bad character.
HAH.

But seriously, I'm curious who's going to make a jump. After seeing Kain, I feel Wolf is hella' under rated and under played.

Thoughts?

 

[<π]

lol.
Wario is a bad character.
HAH.

But seriously, I'm curious who's going to make a jump. After seeing Kain, I feel Wolf is hella' under rated and under played.

Thoughts?

I agree, but We've been down this road and it was a long one.