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He can't cover mid-range angles, sadly. His startup/ending lag, although small, is still detrimental to him. If he could cancel it like Falco, my God....
Then just shield it. : |
pit is top tier because a top tier player (masashi) plays him.
my friend has mained gaw since the start of the game, bair has never been very effective vs. me at the very least. what gaw has that has always worked is effective juggles, mad early kills w/ setups, and a sexy techchase throw. oh but thesedays, he lives longer. thats a good reason to drop him below toon link @.@
You suck too.
Yep. Its why she does not win tournaments.
there's like 3 or 4 top level sheik players and the best sheik doesn't main her
At first I lol'd, but then you said non-relative, and then stated a reference point?
So is ROB imo
Do you understand the meaning of the word "versitile"?
Zelda vs ICs is even at best.
As far as I know, Europe doesn't have tiers. It does have it's own tournament results though, Sheik is 13th on that list.
The synergy with B-air and N-air still really help, both can be used as mix ups and they both have decent range and they have a long lasting hitbox. F-air makes a good KO aerial, all of his smashes are deadly, so obviously he has no problem killing. Also, G&W is the best planker in the game. Up-air blows them away, N-air is unpunishable from an edge hog, Up+B has invincibility frames and can stage spike. Even G&W spammy B special creates a nice wall of hit boxes, making it better than people think it is. The beginning hitbox of G&W D-air spikes... let's see what else... bucket braking puts G&W in a different weight class, same weight class as Mario I would say. G&W can absorb projectiles easily, the absorbing hitbox is HUGE!!! He can absorb projectiles from over him.
I'm not fantastic or anything, but even I can think of (and use) options other than those in those situations. In the air in front of you, you can Fair, nair, drop -> uair, jump away, wait, air dodge through, etc. etc.
Lol @ SL
At first I lol'd, but then you said non-relative, and then stated a reference point?
The point was that if Pit is in the air, he's going to attack you before he lands. Just wait for him to make his moves, shield, bam he's gonna receive damage now. Nair, fair, bair and whatever else he can do in the are all have the risk of being shielded and punished due to the small range they have in comparison to other characters' spacing options, which is why Pit depends on arrows to deal damage from mid (and long, of course) distances, as well as baiting-and-punishing. Hell, Pit can't even do two well-spaced aerials that can hit the enemy's shield out of a shorthop without fear of being grabbed/attacked by a longer-ranged move (which is common in the higher tiers), can he?
Or land and grab, or jump away, or airdodge in -> utilt, etc. I was assuming both were in the air. every character has these options, why wouldn't Pit? He doesn't have an airgrab, no, but he's under no obligation to smack your shield and get punished.
Dunno why hitting a shield is so important, but fair *is* the only aerial that can do this consistently. I hear fullhop dair is pretty cool, but I don't use it ever, so I don't know. At any rate, Pit shouldn't be attacking your shield in the first place, or jumping at you so **** much.
Arrows lose a lot of luster when your opponent learns to powershield, it's true, but most still take some amount of damage if you're changing the timing of your arrows, so most characters still need to approach Pit. Either way, he has plenty of tools outside of that so that shieldcamping doesn't straight up shut him down.
You won't be able to land and do anything, since you'll be frametrapped by a grab. If the opponent starts a 6-frame grab 1-5 frames before you land, then on the 6th frame during your landing lag, you will get grabbed before you have a chance to counter with anything... And spotdodging won't help you much since they can put up their shields before any of your options to counter them.
It's not important, in fact it's a bad idea to hit opponents' shields when you're prone to get grabbed. And by tipping your fair on their shield, are you thinking of the opponent standing still? Because I'm pretty sure that characters like Kirby, MK and DDD (Sakurai's children) can just run up to pit, shield that fair that was supposed to be properly spaced, and grab with their broke-*** grab ranges.
I'm sure his ledgegame is something worthy of kings, but it hasn't bought me yet. If you mean ledgejump and shoot an arrow when in long/mid range, then uair plank when in close range, then yes it can be beat by some characters.
Even if you're changing the timing and powershielding is out of the equation... Simply shielding can put a stop to the arrow spam. With a mix of powershields (will happen) and normal shields, the distance between both characters will be shortened eventually to the point where shooting an arrow will result in damage for Pit.
Predictability isn't a problem, it's how he's telegraphed. I can predict that Marth is gonna fair me, but I can't telegraph it since his fair is very hard to react to, and he can do it at any time out of a shorthop due to the range it has, as well as do 2 in a shorthop and auto-cancel it. Telegraphed moves are easier to avoid because you know when they'll be coming and you already have an option in mind that will cover all of your opponents', or that will cover some and avoid others. Telegraphed and predictable moves are pretty different in and of itself.
Jump away is a fine option under the situation you described, as is airdodge->utilt. Utilt pokes shields early, too, so if you've had pressure on you you'll probably be hit if you didn't predict it. Regardless, this one situation isn't something that's going to happen often.
This is true. I just wondered why you brought the idea up.
Of course it can be beat. He does, however, have more options than that. Due to his ability to go under most stage, ledgehop multiple attacks from his many jumps (every aerial has a use in this... dair's probably the least useful), ledgesnap with WoI (which pushes bombs and 'nades away from the ledge), and shoot arrows from the ledge, I'd feel safe saying he has one of the best planking games in Brawl. Not unbeatable, but **** good. And no character has any one strategy that totally shuts it down (Oli comes close though.)
The idea is that it forces them to approach. If a Pit is firing an arrow close enough for the lag to get punished, he's doin' it wrong (something I do far too often, actually).
I think maybe I'm not clear on the terminology here. Care to define for me?
Hey, I'm being careful to actually say thing that happen in matches. I myself apply what I've said in every single match as both Kirby and ZSS, so I know what can be done and what can't be done as far as what I've stated.
But that's the thing, you can't just land a fair and expect to hit Pit's utilt when the opponent is shielding. If your opponent shields the fair, he'll be pushed out of your utilt's range and only attacks with better horizontal range than his utilt will be able to reach him, and he will be too busy shieldgrabbing you from a distance for you to notice your utilt won't reach and react properly.
Well, I can't disagree that his ledge options are great, but one thing does not make a character better. Okay, so you have an exceptional ledge game... Now what? How are you gonna gain the advantage, or regain it if you're losing? What if your opponent can beat your ledge-camping options? Unless Pit doesn't have an answer that can be done consistently in tourneys and isn't situational, then I still haven't been bought.
Yeah I know, don't worry about that. I was just stating that Pit's arrow isn't as great a pressure tool as it's held up to be. Hell, characters WANT to approach Pit half the time since not many characters have the ability to camp from extremely long distances like Pit does, and Pit can reflect their projectiles too... So what you're doing is trying to damage them while they're approaching. And what if PIT'S the one at a disadvantage? How will he approach?
Well, 'telegraphed' is a coined term here in SWF (and other fighting games) that comes directly from its real definition. A 'telegraph' is a communication apparatus that only has 2 options: beep, or stop beeping. The coined term practically highlights that which has very few options. Pit's shorthop options are telegraphed beause he only has like 1-2 good options, and the opponent can cover them all with a shield and probably punish it with a shieldgrab/fast OoS option while Pit is landing due to the landing lag he has (auto-cancelling means he gets no landing lag, but he still gets landing lag, even if it's 1 frame it's still considered lag)... Predictability has to do with knowing what your opponent is gonna do beforehand, but not knowing when they're gonna do it. I can predict I'm gonna die, for example, but I won't know when... That's the gist of it.
What grounded options does Pit have at mid-close range that he can mix up with aerial approaches well enough to catch an opponent off-guard? With all the time it takes Pit to jump, attack and land, I'm pretty sure that the opponent is going to shield only if he sees you jumping.
I meant instead of landing the fair ._.
It's not an end-all-be-all, but it's a great part of the character that can't be ignored. If the opponent messes up and gets hit with an arrow, or gets grabbed at 0% (Woo! Free ~30 damage! ~40 if you're a heavy.) then I have the advantage, and can hold that against a large portion of the cast on the ledge. This is kind of a **** move, but can certainly be done. It's not like Pit straight up loses in close combat either. Dtilt is fast, decently ranged, and pops people up to be juggled or otherwise chased into the air, where our Uair beats almost anything. Jabs are great, and cancels and such can lead into a grab. Fsmash is frame 5 or 6, and does ~19 damage. AR is silly, but can be used to punish spotdodges and sometimes shielding. He has problems, for sure (Dsmash takes forever and sucks behind him, grab range is itty-bitty, etc.)
Characters want to approach Pit because they have to. Pit wants to be approached. It would be easier to fight Pit if he was appraoching you.
Ah, gotcha. Well, I'd personally probably stay on the ground, and shad-utilt and fullhop dair cover those options decently enough. I don't think Pit is a character who should be throwing out a lot of shot-hopped aerials against grounded opponents. Sliding Fsmashes and Dtilts, running away and then arrowing, running to the ledge, shieldgrabs, spacing games -> ftilt. These are the things I usually do a mid range. Opponent usually closes that range anyways.
I know, and when I said shieldgrab your SHAD landing (since the shield is there to protect him from any attacks you might try), you brought up fair again.
Yeah, that's what G&W and MK have for them when against opponents who are clearly dangerous up close... But if Pit has to do that to win all his matches or to maintain his advantage, then that pretty much means he's limited and only able to win because his single option of putting himself where the opponent has to take lots of damage and/or die is what makes opponents struggle.
That's what I said.
Circles again.Ok, I can handle "capable". I called it "decent" back then, but "capable" works also.
Pit truly shines in the air, so having a grounded Pit is pretty nasty when this game is grab-happy and defensive. Sure you can bait and punish... But is his punishing game as effective as other characters? To his dismay, I think not, sorry.
I said Sheik does not win tournaments.
