The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Captain L]

Having a 0:100 matchup is pretty sad.

Having three is just downright pitiful.

 

[Sky`]

Please, somebody in here.

Tell me why people think Wario is top 3? Tell me?

He doesn't even deserve a place on the top five. =/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link's Projectiles while useful aren't like running through Falco's laser walls. They apply pressure but if Ganon knows how to power shield correctly he should have any trouble unless bombs are the objects being power shielded.

Link's weight and fall speed are perfect for Ganondorf to combo. From what I've heard, Dair can lead into a 53% combo/string on Link from 0%.

Link has simular start-up and ending lag problems like Ganon does, the only reason Link has an advantage on Ganon is because he has a disjoint in the form of a sword and Zair for spacing.

Offstage Ganon can gimp Link better than Link can Ganon. Both suck offstage, but Ganon's gimping tools are better.

If Link was faster on stage or had a better recovery, 30-70, but since neither are the case.

60-40.

edit:
You can't have a 0-100 in this game. :/

Only true 0-100 I've seen was in M.U.G.E.N. where L wrote your name down in a death note and you instantly died the moment the match started.

 

[AtotheZ]

People don't seem to know much of lower tiers.

Also wolf should move up.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Please, somebody in here.

Tell me why people think Wario is top 3? Tell me?

He doesn't even deserve a place on the top five. =/

I say 4th. Note forum explanation FTW?

-Amazing shield pressure. Dair, move out of retaliation range, DJ Dair again anyone?
-The ONLY character who can truly not get grab a whole game if they try hard enough. Squirtle, Sonic? They both have ways to get grabbed. Wario, against most characters (for example, Yoshi and ZSS are probably exceptions) can dance in and out of range fast enough not to get grabbed. This is a great thing, considering the stupid things that can happen to him if he gets grabbed. (lol Snake/Ike Grab Release -> Utilt)
-Great recovery distance. Somewhat predictable? Yes. No auto-snapping on Up B is a bumper? You bet. Is it still within the top ten recoveries in the game? When accounting for aerial movement speed, heck ya it is.
-Bite. It's like a grab you can use in the air. Against some people, it nearly shuts down their whole game.
-Solid KOing power/ability. Uair is good. Fsmash is good (the SAFs make it that much nicer). Add in gimps into this category, and Wario can hold his ground KOing wise better then say, Diddy Kong or Falco.
-Second best character without a projectile, beaten only by MK. His aerial movement speed and bite also helps combat projectiles.
-Aircamping. It's been proven in tournament to be amazing at the right stages.
-Great match-ups. No hard counters. Worse match-up is 4-6, and he has maybe one or two of them. Meaning you can't counter him. Even Snake has a little bit more to worry about match-up wise.
-Great stage options. I honestly think the only stage that could be "bad" for Wario is FD. And even then, it's not terrible.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Xylode it pisses me off when people quote me like that, makes it much harder than necessary to respond. Kindly multiquote.

If link decides to try to kill you, he'll have to use one of the killing moves he has. That means he'll get close to you.

Keyword, DECIDES, he has absolutely no reason to get close especially since he will have the percent lead.

Plus he can Zair~Fsmash or continue racking damage until even a bomb kills you.
Plus Ganodnorf is terribly predictable and slow.

Ganon just has to get past all that. If zair is in combination with a projectile, they can be PSed as well. I've seen some vids of ganons doing just that against TL, and link shouldn't be any different.

Link's Zair is LONGER than TL's and he falls faster as well so he isnt in the air as long as TL would be during the Zair, giving you less time to do anything.
TL's Zair behavior is different from Link's, especially since Link can land an Fsmash with his.

Or he can simply charge up an Fsmash with a bomb n hand after a Zair, allowing him an assortment of options.

Movement is made up for with knockback. Give ganon one chance to hit link and he'll be on the defence for awhile. More so when a ftilt/dtilt at 70% causes link to pretty much go offstage or airborn.

Ganodorf has major issues simply following up with anything because of that knockback, let alone that Link is a heavy which deals with that knock and hampers the only thing he has over Link.
You can hit like a truck but if you can't approach, it means nothing.

Let alone that a SH Zair when powershielded results in nothing bad for Link because he can still do whatever he wants after he lands.

Then it just comes down to CQC stuff.

Which Link outperforms Ganondorf since the fastest thing Ganondorf has is an 8 frame jab.

PSing is the answer to all of that. Plus, a bomb is easy to see that he has it held, and a boomerang has lag you can see it coming as well. Arrow canceling is different, but with some prediction you can overcome that.

Actually you can launch a smash attack with a bomb in hand. Jump, fire an arrow then toss the bomb. Lay the bomb on the ground, Zair repeatedly with it in hand.
Considering the range on Link's attacks, its meaningless to powershield since Ganondorf does not have the speed to make use of it.

This I was just mentioning. If for whatever reason ganon manages to get a SideB off, then it's tech chase.

THat assumes it is perfectly done which is beyond human possibility, let alone again, yes if Ganon get s aside B its good damage, but its meaningless overall since Link just keps slapping Ganny away.

Yeah, I know it sounds like PSing is the answer to everything and as if someone will really be able to do that all the time, but it's still possible and it's the only thing he has to counter act what link's projectiles. CQC stuff just relys upon getting that shield, roll or dodge going for you to punish link's lag. But yeah, a properly spaced link is difficult to approach. I'm not saying it's not too far off from 65-35 link, just 60-40.

I am saying 65:35 because Gany cant even use PSing to its best effective.

 

[Luigi player]

Please, somebody in here.

Tell me why people think Wario is top 3? Tell me?

He doesn't even deserve a place on the top five. =/

Wario may drop down 1-2 places. He's probably still top 5 though.

Who would you put above him besides Diddy and Falco?

 

[choknater]

ice climbers :D

 

[Sky`]

Wario may drop down 1-2 places. He's probably still top 5 though.

Who would you put above him besides Diddy and Falco?

MK
Snake
(Diddy/Falco)
Marth
DDD
Wario
Climbers Imo.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

MK
Snake
(Diddy/Falco)
Marth
DDD
Wario
Climbers Imo.

Marth is too high. Too much trouble against MK. I'm not sure if the idea that Marth beats Snake is real or just people boasting/joking about one match that occurred. Haven't looked into it enough.

DDD isn't that good either. Too many match-ups where he loses to harshly.

 

[Gindler]

D3 doesn't have matchups where he loses harshly. I've seen D3's that actually KNOW how to fight, oli, ICs, and pikachu.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

D3 doesn't have matchups where he loses harshly. I've seen D3's that actually KNOW how to fight, oli, ICs, and pikachu.

ICs are still a harsh match-up for him, even if he knows how to fight them. They have a lot more tools against him then the other way around.

Olimar has the same deal with ICs, just to a lessor extent.

Pikachu...I'd have to relook into that match-up. It's been a while since I thought about that one.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I thought MArth vs MK was bad, but after watching MikeHAZE play I can't really agree it's worse than a 60:40.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Am I the only one who thinks Falco will go down simply because others are going up? Diddy, Marth?, IC's? Pikachu?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

MK
Snake
(Diddy/Falco)
Marth
DDD
Wario
Climbers Imo.

/




Edit: Pika won't be reaching top tier anytime soon.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I thought MArth vs MK was bad, but after watching MikeHAZE play I can't really agree it's worse than a 60:40.

Who was the MK? That makes a huge difference, considering the level HAZE is at.

If it's not near perfectly even skill wise, the MU ratio can look a lot different. Which is what makes MUs so frustrating to set some times. -_-

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Shadow: I really do not want to argue over a 5 point difference in opinion. Particularly on a thread that really should not be overly discussing a single MU where it should be about the tier list itself. Ray wanted reasons, I tried to point out some that SuSa might think it is not 65:35; it branced further from there.

D3 doesn't have matchups where he loses harshly. I've seen D3's that actually KNOW how to fight, oli, ICs, and pikachu.

I need to see how DDD fights olimar xD

I'm not sure if the idea that Marth beats Snake is real or just people boasting/joking about one match that occurred. Haven't looked into it enough.

Sort of does. Look between MK and Marth when against Snake. From what I have read, Snake has a harder time actually getting to the ground when getting juggled by marth. MK is slighlty easier.

 

[Luigi player]

Marth does have a problem with MK, but so has Wario. But it's not like it's unwinable for both of them.
MikeHaze also has some nice results with Marth lately.

Dedede actually isn't that bad against Oli, Pika and ICs (and Falco imo). They're still not soo good though. Around 60:40 for them imo.
I think Wario is still better though. Those might not be really unwinable matchups for D3, but Wario doesn't have such problems. Most of his matchups are 45:55 at worst for Wario. His only real bad matchup is MK (maybe).

I don't know where I'd put them in the tier list. Right now I'd put Wario and Marth at the same spot. And D3 and ICs below them.

 

[Gindler]

I need to see how DDD fights olimar xD

Get him in the air, grab him when he tries to land, repeat. Maybe florida D3's just know it better than most

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Get him in the air, grab him when he tries to land, repeat. Maybe florida D3's just know it better than most

Couldn't DDD technically do that to just about anyone? Must be more complicated than that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Who was the MK? That makes a huge difference, considering the level HAZE is at.

If it's not near perfectly even skill wise, the MU ratio can look a lot different. Which is what makes MUs so frustrating to set some times. -_-

M2K.

MikeHAZE still lost btw.

 

[Gindler]

Couldn't DDD technically do that to just about anyone? Must be more complicated than that.

Not really, just characters that are unchaingrabbable (why would they do it when they can chaingrab?) and are slower in the air then D3 is on the ground (like oli). I don't play D3, I've just seen the matchup in tourney and that's pretty much what it boils down too, saved my time on explaining that oli could be gimped too since it's obvious.

 

[C.box]

M2K.

MikeHAZE still lost btw.

mike also beat dojo at activegamers but to judge a match up of one person's performance is dumb <_<.

It's still not that bad btw,.

 

[bad habiT]

Toon should be A tier.

 

[Tien2500]

Toon should be A tier.

Nah.

10chars

 

[adumbrodeus]

mike also beat dojo at activegamers but to judge a match up of one person's performance is dumb <_<.

It's still not that bad btw,.

Define "bad".


They both win on defense, just MK ***** Marth rather ridiculously when he's on offense.


Oh, and MK wins slightly in the neutral position.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Toon should be A tier.

I don't know. He is only at 16 right now... I think he might make it to B-tier...

 

[Tien2500]

I don't know. He is only at 16 right now... I think he might make it to B-tier...

He's already in B tier...

 

[Magik0722]

ike to C tier please, it has been shown that he is way ahead of all the other low tiers by completely dominating low tier events everywhere

 

[Nidtendofreak]

ike to C tier please, it has been shown that he is way ahead of all the other low tiers by completely dominating low tier events everywhere

He's not that good.

Best he'll even get to is top of D tier. And that would be jaw dropping.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Main problem with Ike is he's amazing against low tiers, but he sucks against pretty much everyone who is not low tier.


So while he doesn't DESERVE to be higher then low tier, but he's good against low tier.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Main problem with Ike is he's amazing against low tiers, but he sucks against pretty much everyone who is not low tier.


So while he doesn't DESERVE to be higher then low tier, but he's good against low tier.

Eh, he doesn't suck against everyone else. He only sucks against three characters really. The rest are manageable, including a few good/neutral or close to neutral match-ups in the higher tiers. (6-4 vs Luigi, 45-55/4-6 against Diddy Kong and G&W, 6-4 vs ICs until redebated, 5-5 against Peach, 45-55 against Wario)

But ya, he's basically the MK of low tiers. Except for Samus, but nobody uses her. >_>

 

[Suspect]

Ike has an advantage against Luigi?


i lawled​

 

[Flayl]

Completely baseless claim that'd be funny if it's true: Ike's attacks push Luigi too far (due to his low traction) for him to be able to punish him, hence Ike's advantage.

 

[Suspect]

Completely baseless claim that'd be funny if it's true: Ike's attacks push Luigi too far (due to his low traction) for him to be able to punish him, hence Ike's advantage.

Everyone beats Luigi then right?​

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Luigi's fireball doesn't do crap against Ike. Too slow, jab beats it out.
Fsmash is safe on block against Luigi. He slides THAT far.
Nair outranges all of his moves IIRC, or near all of them.
He can't do anything against a properly spaced Fair.
His recovery is spike bait. Slow + predictable = Dair'd.

Need I go on?

 

[Suspect]

Luigi's fireball doesn't do crap against Ike. Too slow, jab beats it out.
Fsmash is safe on block against Luigi. He slides THAT far.
Nair outranges all of his moves IIRC, or near all of them.
He can't do anything against a properly spaced Fair.
His recovery is spike bait. Slow + predictable = Dair'd.

Need I go on?

Then why did my new at the time Luigi destroy you?

with everything you just mentioned not happening or working?​

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I never played your Luigi. >_>

That, and I'm the worse Ike in Texas. And probably the worse brawler in SA. If you couldn't beat me, it would be pretty sad.

 

[Suspect]

You have played my Luigi before one of the tournies we had or during one of the gamelot weeklies we had. I cant remember exactly.​

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nope. I have 0 matches against Luigi. I've lost to espy 2 or 3 times, Dare, and when you used Kirby on me. But not Luigi. I remember the Kirby part because I switched to Falcon for whatever reason. >_>