ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I thought he was referring to one where DK was 3rd
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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
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Right my point was that DK's matchups are not exceptional enough to put him that high in the list and his current placement is more accurate.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Ah of course in which case we are in agreement =)
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Random fact; Donkey Kong's invulnerable to grab releases.
Gindler
Smash Champion
**** just got real
Bowser is a beast, I'm picking him up now because he actually has more and better grab releases than yoshi (although a worse grab
)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfvsLDobUNg
and that's M2K!
I still wouldn't put DK that close to even with MK.
**** you. There is no such thing as agreeing on Smashboards.
Well yeah but I could do the same thing with a different video that shows DK sucking against MK.Gindler;8527546[url said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wae6xPbvYe8&feature=related
Luigi player
Smash Master
Yeah but Cable was leading until the last stock where M2K started Tornadoing the whole time.
And Ripples point was that now that we can get out of the tornado before the last hit DK won't be juggled as easily and can also punish MK for it. Which makes the matchup much better for DK...
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
I think he could stand to be a few positions higher. Something like 14th/15th would be good.
And I thought that DK vs MK was generally agreed to be 40:60...
Coney
Smash Master
i have a silly question that my friend and i came up with during some silly matches.
if lucas had a zair like TL, short-range but effective with the snake bite doing the same damage, would he rise at all?
additionally, how cool would it be if lucas had a zair that was a grab. that is to say, he could short-hop and zair, and if he catches the opponent, it pulls them in for a grab and he lands. the move would still have the same properties, no lag upon land, all that. it can't catch people out of the air (no more than DDD can, which is still a lot, but you get what i'm saying).
how much higher would he be? would this mechanic be 2 gudz?
if lucas had a zair like TL, short-range but effective with the snake bite doing the same damage, would he rise at all?
additionally, how cool would it be if lucas had a zair that was a grab. that is to say, he could short-hop and zair, and if he catches the opponent, it pulls them in for a grab and he lands. the move would still have the same properties, no lag upon land, all that. it can't catch people out of the air (no more than DDD can, which is still a lot, but you get what i'm saying).
how much higher would he be? would this mechanic be 2 gudz?
orange/xd
Smash Ace
I think I saw a YouTube video of a hack in B+ where Lucas's tether is an attack...lemme find it
He would definitely be better than now, but... Not by a lot, in my opinion. He'd rise like a tier or some spots, but his weaknesses are still the same, and a zair like that won't help him get around them.
Luigi player
Smash Master
A zair attack would definitely help him by not getting grabbed.
Coney
Smash Master
part of me wonders, though. having a mobile grab like that, one that can be easily spammed with almost no lag...i doubt he'd be top tier or anything, but i'd figure that'd put him up to B maybe?
then i remember his grab release stuff ;_;
then i remember his grab release stuff ;_;
orange/xd
Smash Ace
If it's an attack, powershield/shield and grab. If it's a mobile grab, camp him... Either way he's still pretty much ****ed, and it's not like his downB absorbs ALL projectiles... Plus, then he'd have to choose: Attack with the grab, or downB: 50% chance you might get it wrong and get punished.
orange/xd
Smash Ace
What do you mean attack with the grab or Down B?
If Lucas' theoretical zair was an attack, then all we need to do is shield/powershield it and grab to get past it... If Lucas' theoretical zair was a grab, then we just camp him until he makes a mistake and we run in for free damage.
Luigi player
Smash Master
When I said that I thought about Toon Links zair, which doesn't really look like it would be so easily powershielded and grabbed... he also wouldn't have to be so close since it does have a bit range.
But I don't really like this "if that would be like this" talk anyway... there are so many things you can say like if Dedede would have less grab range he couldn't infnite, if DK would still have his Melee grounded upB he'd be really really good. If Ness and Lucas wouldn't have so many grab release frames, if Sonic would have a faster or at least more safe jab (if it connects), if some attacks would have less landing lag or less startup lag, if MKs tornado would have less priority... etc etc.
It's not like that so who cares how it would be if it would be different. There'd be too many things you'd want to change anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wae6xPbvYe8
That is their first match of the set. On the last Stock of DK, M2K only takes damage from the throw DK manages to get and after that 0-deaths him without taking another hit. You can also look at all of the practically guaranteed combos M2K was able to get off on DK, abusing his fairly bad options when it comes to landing safely.
I thought it was kinda funny at one point in the match where DK manages to sneak in a Dair and hits MK and DK had so much lag after his Dair that MK grabbed him anyways before he could move lol.
Coney
Smash Master
It's just hypothetical stuff, what's so wrong about it? Not like it changes the way we play Brawl, right? So let people ask, as long as it's not outrageous, and as long as it's not like 3-5 people asking at the same time (or in the same topic).
Gindler
Smash Champion
So you proved he has a disadvantage to MK, which is what I said???
If lucas' Zair was a grab that'd be awesome. Kinda like yoshi's egg lay (same length and everything
)Lol, yeah that one was bad. I was just being the devil's advocate.
Luigi player
Smash Master
lol I only said I don't like to talk about this, that doesn't mean I flame you guys lol. chill
Coney
Smash Master
actually yeah, that's true! it'd be a lot like egg lay, only without the lag that (i presume) egg lay has, and it would just land into a normal grab. didn't even think about that.If lucas' Zair was a grab that'd be awesome. Kinda like yoshi's egg lay (same length and everything
i just would imagine it would make staying close to him kinda difficult, which would mean less grabs, which would be better for him all around...except a lot of his strengths are in punishing shields i think, so...maybe not
I know, but sometimes people aren't playing that role and are 100% serious, so I have to test them.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Terrible argument primarily because there are characters whose representation is similar.
The whole "WOMG NO TOURNEY REP" goes for many other characters, not just DK
Wouldn't matter, we assume the current rules. There really is no point in saying what if since such a rule wont change anytime soon.
Oh, so I was belittling you? Hardly, itwas adding it to my reasoning as a conclusion
OH, I am so sorry you cannot read and thus took it as a personal insult for whatever reason!
Again, its not a CG if DK cant break it, and if I recall correctly, DK doesnt have ANYTHING he can do within frame 1 that lets him escape.
Cargo hold? What you mean jump off the ledge and let him fall below? Sincei know stagespiking just gets teched and DK gets footstooled.
Gindler
Smash Champion
So wolf is pretty good. And he only gets "*****" by D3 and MK (falco if you don't know the match), those guys aren't that common. Wolf doesn't get much tourney rep either I guess.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Fun theory time?
What would happen if all of Ike's attacks (outside of Jab obviously) were 3 frames faster, and had 3 frames less lag?
And what would happen if Ganondorf got the same buff?
What would happen if all of Ike's attacks (outside of Jab obviously) were 3 frames faster, and had 3 frames less lag?
And what would happen if Ganondorf got the same buff?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Cargo Stage Spike doesn't work, just hold up
No. If you can get a grab off you can easily throw Snake offstage with a Cargo Downthrow, and if he up B's he sets himself up for a spike. Ripple says DK is very good at gimping Snake because IMO Cargo throw is easily one of the best in the game because its flexibility. If the percent is high enough (so they don't break out fast enough) you can ALWAYS get Snake offstage in a reliable and consistent fashion since the throw itself has an almost static trajectory, is independent of percent, and does not decay. Also since Snake's cypher can hurt anyone it makes it more safe to spike, because you can fast fall spike (as opposed to just trying to time a spike so you don't fast fall and SD/put yourself in a bad spot), get hurt and sent up by the small damage from the cypher, and go for another spike if it didn't kill Snake or you can go back to the stage.
Kofu
Smash Master
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Ganondorf would, at most, rise to where Bowser is now. He's still got a horrible recovery, horrible grab game, and mediocre priority.
A FAir that could be autocanceled would be sweet though.
A FAir that could be autocanceled would be sweet though.
They'd still suck.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
^Indeed^
Gannon is just not good... at all.
Gannon is just not good... at all.
IMO, Ike really isn't a BAD character. He is actually mediocre. He just has an easy gimp-able recovery. Like if he is trying to use his side-B to recover, just run in front of it and take the hit, because it will stop him from moving forward and put him in the helpless state.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Yes, but think about what those buffs would mean.
Frame 3 Uair for Ganondorf and frame 5(?) jab. Suddenly he has a good "get out of my face" aerial.
Frame 5 Bair for Ike. Frame 8 Dsmash. He got that frame 3 buff in Brawl+ for ftilt IIRC.
Frame 3 Uair for Ganondorf and frame 5(?) jab. Suddenly he has a good "get out of my face" aerial.
Frame 5 Bair for Ike. Frame 8 Dsmash. He got that frame 3 buff in Brawl+ for ftilt IIRC.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Brawl+ is blasphemy
If Ike has his double jump, he gets the exact same distance out of double jump and aether as he does Quick Draw
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
No, Ike is just bad, sorry. In a world where everyone played the game perfectly (yes I know it is impossible, but that's what the tier list assumes) he might be the worst character in the game because he'd never get a hit in. Like ever.
Fortunately people are dumb and make mistakes and he gets kills at 60%.
Fortunately people are dumb and make mistakes and he gets kills at 60%.
Gindler
Smash Champion
It's not blasphemy, it's just really really dumb. It's only purpose is to make falcon and ganon beast.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think a mistake with most characters is getting hit by ike. Getting F-smashed by Ike is one HELL of a mistake.
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