The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Ripple]

How to beat DK's Cargo throw: Hold Up. >_>

...I always forget the formula for cargo but its something like once you reach 60 or 80% probably 80. you are stuck in cargo for 1 whole second even holding up. we can walk to the edge and throw you off in that amount of time from anywhere except the exact middle of FD

 

[Luigi player]

Don't forget that DK also has down B against Snake which outranges every non-projectile attack of him and will force him to jump which is not a favourable position for Snake... if he goes away DK can stop down Bing so granades won't help much against it.

 

[Gindler]

The majority of low tier's either have poor recovery and/or poor speed. Snake, Wario, and DDD are the exception, just because their recoveries are good for heavy characters. The majority of high and top tiers are filled with the faster characters. Fast as in, quick attacks with little start up time, or quick attacks with a quick cooldown time, or fast as in running speed, or walking speed, and aerial speed. Any aspect of the what I mentioned, is what makes a character have a lot of potential. Having a lot of power with nothing else, is bad. Just look at Ganondorf. Speed is one of the most important aspects in a fighting game. That's another reason why Kirby will be going down the next tier list, Kirby is too slow to avoid projectiles and catch up to speedy spammers. If Kirby was as fast as MK on the ground, he'd be in A tier for sure.

Yoshi has good speed and good recovery, not to mention his weight is the same as wario's. And he has fast attacks, the fastest air speed, and a good run speed (a very small tad slower than marth). Why is it yoshi is so low on the tier list?

I can safely say that you've been using Kirby the wrong way. Kirby shouldn't be getting many problems from campers... The only projectile camper who should be bothering Kirby should be Snake, since you can't evade them like you can any other projectiles (powershield, ducking, aircamping...).

I've seen kirby's play and they really have a hard time with camping, even a ***** yoshi spamming egg toss and pivot grabbing can be a pain for most.

How to beat DK's Cargo throw: Hold Up. >_>

Doesn't that only work for the spike? plus if you wiggle out in the air that'd put snake below DK anyway, probably the last place he wants to be.

On a side note: DKs a BEAST!!!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

One full second?

You ain't getting very far in one second with the slightly slowed down movement speed. It's basically worthless unless you're right at the stage edge.

EDIT: No, that is for any time you are in the cargo hold. And IIRC, if you break while DK is in the air, you end up right in front of him, not below him. But I could be wrong about that part.

 

[Ripple]

One full second?

You ain't getting very far in one second with the slightly slowed down movement speed. It's basically worthless unless you're right at the stage edge.

EDIT: No, that is for any time you are in the cargo hold. And IIRC, if you break while DK is in the air, you end up right in front of him, not below him. But I could be wrong about that part.

its not slowed down its his walk speed which is very fast and DK can gain speed by doop walking? DK's doop walk or what ever the hell its called is actually one of the best in the game and makes him walk just as fast as his run? all you have to do is keep turning around and DK gains speed.

you are right on where snake is released if in the air.

 

[Kewkky]

I've seen kirby's play and they really have a hard time with camping, even a ***** yoshi spamming egg toss and pivot grabbing can be a pain for most.

There is like, only one single widely-accepted high-level Kirby main (ChuDat), a not-so-widely accepted one (Y.b.M), and a couple of other random kirbies who haven't shown what they can do (me included, but that will change come Pound 4... Doing everything in my power to make sure I'm there)... Usually other kirbies have the same strategy while playing (space bairs and hope for the best), which is going into a match the WRONG way! Kirby has like 2 successful playstyles (rushing and forcing the opponents to fall for his baiting tactics, and staying away while forcing the opponent to approach you due to having the disadvantage) yet most stay in the one that's not successful at all: bair, grab, and fsmash spamming.

And, just for the record... There is a very big difference between a top-level kirby and a mid-level kirby.

One full second?

You ain't getting very far in one second with the slightly slowed down movement speed. It's basically worthless unless you're right at the stage edge.

DK's 1-second mark starts as soon as he can walk, and ends as soon as he initiates the throw... A full second is a LOT of time.

 

[Delta-cod]

me included, but that will change come Pound 4... Doing everything in my power to make sure I'm there

You. Me. Pound 4. No johns.

There's a large difference between a mid level Yoshi and a Top level Yoshi too. =P

 

[Yonder]

Yoshi has good speed and good recovery, not to mention his weight is the same as wario's. And he has fast attacks, the fastest air speed, and a good run speed (a very small tad slower than marth). Why is it yoshi is so low on the tier list?

I'm curious too, I find him grossly underrated (Sides from his OOS sucking harsh and fairly horrible B moves)

 

[Palpi]

You. Me. Pound 4. No johns.

There's a large difference between a mid level Yoshi and a Top level Yoshi too. =P

**** delta-cod. You gotta make that 50$ minimum.

 

[Kewkky]

You. Me. Pound 4. No johns.

There's a large difference between a mid level Yoshi and a Top level Yoshi too. =P

Oh, MOST definitely! Let's see if we can get some matches in before tourney matches start, hohoho! :D *excited*

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You can doop walk while Cargo Carrying? O_o

Sweet.

I still don't see 45-55 against either Snake or MK, for one important reason: disjointedness. DK extents his hurtbox when he attacks, Snake and MK? Not so much.

That, and MK has his planking while Snake has his stage control/grenade shielding. I see 4-6 against Snake and 35-65 against MK, but I'm no DK expert.

 

[Palpi]

The DK match-up isn't that hard for MK. I would say 65-35 aswell.

 

[Kewkky]

MK vs DK would be minimum 40:60 MK's favor, due to how fast DK can kill him, what deceptive range he also has, as well as how long DK can live if he doesn't fall for dair gimps (very long)... MINIMUM, meaning it could very well be 45:55 MK's as well.

 

[bigman40]

Oh, MOST definitely! Let's see if we can get some matches in before tourney matches start, hohoho! :D *excited*

Lol. This should be fun.

 

[Ripple]

The DK match-up isn't that hard for MK. I would say 65-35 aswell.

DK does not has a match up worse than 40-60 besides DDD. DK can also now get out of tornado before the final hit so he can't be juggled anymore.

45-55 MK

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Disjointedness > DK's arm hurtboxes.

And what is DK going to do against planking?

 

[Luigi player]

You can doop walk while Cargo Carrying? O_o

Sweet.

I still don't see 45-55 against either Snake or MK, for one important reason: disjointedness. DK extents his hurtbox when he attacks, Snake and MK? Not so much.

That, and MK has his planking while Snake has his stage control/grenade shielding. I see 4-6 against Snake and 35-65 against MK, but I'm no DK expert.

Just to get an idea of the DK - Snake matchup... >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwhcOG2cAJM

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Just to get an idea of the DK - Snake matchup... >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwhcOG2cAJM

What the heck did that Snake think he was doing?

 

[Luigi player]

What the heck did that Snake think he was doing?

Well he sucked but you can see that DK can edgeguarded him really well...

 

[Ripple]

Disjointedness > DK's arm hurtboxes.

And what is DK going to do against planking?

we can actually deal with it by using the SA up-b properties so that we grab the ledge without being able to be moved and if MK grabs the ledge we can simply go back on stage

 

[Nidtendofreak]

That isn't a good example then. The DK was clearly much better and outclassing the Snake all around. It wasn't a good example of how Snake could recover well.

Bias video is Bias.

we can actually deal with it by using the SA up-b properties so that we grab the ledge without being able to be moved and if MK grabs the ledge we can simply go back on stage

They don't start on frame one, that's a bit of a risk. And you still take % dg, and will end up worse for it over all. You grab the ledge, take % dg, MK simply glides over to the other side. Or Shuttle loops you for staying on the ledge.

EDIT: Unless you meant invisibility frames and not SA frames. I forget if DK has invisibility or SA.

 

[C.box]

DK does not has a match up worse than 40-60 besides DDD. DK can also now get out of tornado before the final hit so he can't be juggled anymore.

45-55 MK

lol2frameuair

 

[Ripple]

lol2frameuair

I meant by tornado, that was the main thing holding us back

 

[C.box]

Nado is still doing to be a pain in the *** on your shield, and it's not like it won't be able to be used for chasing.

 

[DMG]

MK-DK 55:45?

I almost lol'd.

 

[Luigi player]

That isn't a good example then. The DK was clearly much better and outclassing the Snake all around. It wasn't a good example of how Snake could recover well.

Bias video is Bias.



They don't start on frame one, that's a bit of a risk. And you still take % dg, and will end up worse for it over all. You grab the ledge, take % dg, MK simply glides over to the other side. Or Shuttle loops you for staying on the ledge.

EDIT: Unless you meant invisibility frames and not SA frames. I forget if DK has invisibility or SA.

You're right.. the video isn't really good to show anything off. I watched it again and it really shows that the Snake can't airdodge well =P oh well, it's still funny to watch.

 

[Ripple]

Nado is still doing to be a pain in the *** on your shield, and it's not like it won't be able to be used for chasing.

its a pain on everyone's shield and If MK stops using nado on us, as long as the last hit hits our shield, we can d-smash him from a shield drop. its more of a pain for him now.

and even if you use it for chasing we can still get out of it. DK can always afford to take a bit of extra damage

MK-DK 55:45?

I almost lol'd

I lol'd at you thinking wario vs. DK is 65-35

 

[DMG]

a zero-110% CG that ends in a free Fthrow/Uthrow/puts DK into the air... that's a pretty powerful tool. If that matchup isn't at least 60:40, then MK must be 55:45 DK's favor.

 

[Ripple]

a zero-110% CG that ends in a free Fthrow/Uthrow/puts DK into the air... that's a pretty powerful tool. If that matchup isn't at least 60:40, then MK must be 55:45 DK's favor.

the 55-45 was for MK's advantage, not DKs.

and remember what we have on you too (spacing is the main thing). both people can not afford to be grabbed.

 

[DMG]

Yeah but my character doesn't get CG'd by yours for 100+ free damage.

 

[dainbramage]

the 55-45 was for MK's advantage, not DKs.

psst, he was mocking you

 

[Ripple]

psst, he was mocking you

figures, but it was kinda ambiguous

Yeah but my character doesn't get CG'd by yours for 100+ free damage.

no but we are not going to be grabbed at 0% every single time.

and guess what happens when you get grabbed at 85%+? that's right, you die .....guaranteed

 

[Ragnar0k]

My DK beat chillin's snake at my first major tournament. If that says anything about the matchup. Cargo down throw and down b **** snake.

 

[DMG]

Actually, it's not "guaranteed" as Wario can actually SDI and tech the kill move. It's not easy, but quite possible.

Also the CG doesn't have to START at 0 for it to work. In fact, I'm almost positive we can start it at around 70% and still be able to CG you until 110%.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Trying to grab us makes it easier for us to grab you.

 

[Suspect]

wario owns DK

move on

 

[DMG]

I'm sure glad Wario has guaranteed Grab setups that are reasonably applicable in game.

 

[Ripple]

Actually, it's not "guaranteed" as Wario can actually SDI and tech the kill move. It's not easy, but quite possible.

Also the CG doesn't have to START at 0 for it to work. In fact, I'm almost positive we can start it at around 70% and still be able to CG you until 110%.

I know you can survive longer with SDI but I think it kills normally at 80% without SDI, I always add 5% just to make sure. if not its 90% guaranteed even with SDI. if someone can add 10% to their life with SDI straight down while not messing up regular di would be amazing

and during that 70% that you would have done to we could have easily done the same amount.

wario owns DK

move on

<3 the support for that

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I really like your DK Ripple, I saw it at Genesis and its beast.

 

[Ripple]

I really like your DK Ripple, I saw it at Genesis and its beast.

did you see me against the snake or against praxis? my matches against co18 did not show much except grabs, I guess my games with Dphat were ok.

time to move on, Bowser is a monster!

needs to move up at least 3 places