The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Nanaki]

Ugh... don't you guys know that if someone KO's a pokemon, that particular pokemon will get their fatigue reset to zero? It's not all time based. For example, Squirtle get's KOed by Kirby F-smash, Pokemon Trainer force switches to Ivysaur next, soon after you respawn as Ivysaur, switch to Charizard, try to knock them far, then switch to Squirtle again.

Nanaki: I'm not the only person that thinks so. I respect people's opinions, until they start insulting me personally which SuSa has done. So I am in no way immature. I'm 25 years old.

Age =/= maturity, obviously. What was the enormous personal insult that triggered the douche/moron comment? Mature people don't say 'He started it!' to justify their insults.

And someone agreeing with you doesn't make everything you do OK. History has proven that over and over and over again.

I'm saying he should be E tier because there was no reason to move him out of it in the first place.

Seriously, there was no ground breaking tech found, or bucket loads of mains all placing well (Sonic had like, 4 people suddenly placing with him in tournaments). All there was was Reflex. And that apparently equals 5 spots.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't add up. PT should be top of E tier, with Ness at bottom of D tier. Ness has had over all more players placing with him, he should get D tier instead of PT if any of the previous E tiers (who isn't Sonic) was going to make the jump up. He was a tad underrated at the time, but not 5 spots worth.

As for now, like I said: If this Squirtle sliding thing proves to be usable without being predictable, yes D tier works. If not, top of E tier.

EDIT: Champ, bluntly, if you're 25, act like it. You're posts were being illogical, not well written, and now you're throwing a hissy fit because you don't like what one guy said about you. Grow up. I've had people question me, you don't see me constantly pointing them out on it.

I may not agree with you, but I certainly can see your point and respect your opinion. I agree that Ness should be above PT, but I think they should both be D tier.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I've been arguing about PT for three months. >_> Why would I drop the ball now?

And sadly, I don't know as much about Ness as I would like. I'm considering him as a secondary (for like, the third time. lol), so I'm digging around about him, but I don't have enough info to put up a good argument. For now I can only continue to argue that PT got an undeserved tier jump.

@Reflex: Like I said, if it proves to be reliable without giving yourself away, I'll say that PT now deserves D tier, but gained it 3 months too early.

EDIT: ITT, people posting as I'm typing up my post. >_>

Look, it's not like I'm going "only ******* think PT should be D tier". I admit he's on the boarder. It's mainly crazy claims like PT should be C/B tier that really get me pissed off. I can understand PT for D tier now. My main issue is the situation three months ago, when there was no real grounds for doing so.

 

[Magik0722]

Zero switching can only reliably happen on two stages

Smashville and rainbow cruise

with the opponent banning smashvile and rainbow cruise not always being the best choice, zero switching was nice but not great

 

[Kaffei]

When is the next tier list coming out?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Zero switching can only reliably happen on two stages

Smashville and rainbow cruise

with the opponent banning smashvile and rainbow cruise not always being the best choice, zero switching was nice but not great

Lylat Cruise is pretty easy, and there's Frigate Orpheon, too.

Smashville on that list makes it harder for Snake and Meta Knight to go to it without thinking about it.

Rainbow Cruise is a generally-good stage for PT, I feel.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What that shows me Reflex is that the Zero switching is most likely only going to be usable on your CP. >_> Not enough to really chance a tier position if you can only rely on it happening 1/3 of the stages you play on.

 

[Nanaki]

Lylat Cruise is pretty easy, and there's Frigate Orpheon, too.

Smashville on that list makes it harder for Snake and Meta Knight to go to it without thinking about it.

Rainbow Cruise is a generally-good stage for PT, I feel.

Isn't Orpheon pretty terrible for PT, though?

 

[Magik0722]

Unless i am wrong on this stages such as lylat cruise and yoshis island you have to get lucky to zero switch on it since you dont know when exactly the platform is going to tilt.

That is of course i am wrong and thinking that the s tages are random when they could be scripted

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm bored. Let's talk about someone else.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi ^^

*****

 

[Xebenkeck]

Isn't Orpheon pretty terrible for PT, though?

I though that was only because ivysaur could tether the right side.

 

[Red Arremer]

When is the next tier list coming out?

As already said numerous times during the course of this thread:
There is no date yet, but it will probably be released near the end of this year.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I though that was only because ivysaur could tether the right side.

I would imagine none of the three recoveries particularly like that ledge given the general short range of the three Up Bs.

 

[Clai]

I'm bored. Let's talk about someone else.

I agree with this.

We should probably discuss Wolf. Has his metagame changed? At all? Is he a character that's just going to keep falling while the lower-C and D-tier characters get the rep they deserve and pass him, or does he have the attributes to continue competing in this metagame.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I agree with this.

We should probably discuss Wolf. Has his metagame changed? At all? Is he a character that's just going to keep falling while the lower-C and D-tier characters get the rep they deserve and pass him, or does he have the attributes to continue competing in this metagame.

Is it okay if I say that he's going to keep falling, but that he does have the tools to compete?

Isn't Orpheon pretty terrible for PT, though?

People assume that a lack of a ledge automatically makes it terrible, because of Ivysaur.

I've never had a severe issue outside of Ivysaur against, like, Marth/Falco, and that's exactly what Zero Switching is for, right?

 

[zeldspazz]

well yeah nothing significant has happened to zelda since the begining of the game. The only thing that has happened ever was that bucket braking this with a reversal B. Shes a pretty 1 dimensional character.

Yeah, there have been some other little things too though that help as a whole, like a dthrow stage spike on Falco on DDD, amd some drop-through platform techs with dtilt. Just not many people take the time to research her. But hey, there probably isnt much to research anyway. I still dont think she should drop though. I think shes a slightly below average character.

Im not gonna contribute to wolf conversation, I know absolutely nothing about him.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I agree with this.

We should probably discuss Wolf. Has his metagame changed? At all? Is he a character that's just going to keep falling while the lower-C and D-tier characters get the rep they deserve and pass him, or does he have the attributes to continue competing in this metagame.

Wolf in my opinion is in the bottom of C-tier, only above Sonic in C. Mainly he hasn't really advanced in the meta game, im no expert but i hear he gets ***** by many of the top tiers like marth, MK, DDD. But he still has the tools to do very well. Shine is a awesome "combo breaker" and defensive tool and Auto canceled Nair to dsmash is too good.

 

[Magik0722]

yes shes a 1 dimensional character but so is dedede and marth so im not saying shes terrible

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario for A tier, amirite?

 

[ShadowLink84]

yes shes a 1 dimensional character but so is dedede and marth so im not saying shes terrible

Shaking my head.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Lucario for A tier, amirite?

There is no right or wrong answer at this point.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I like Wolf's B-air. :D

But I feel as if he has the least usable Laser, smashes, and recovery out of the spacies. Not so sure where he should be...

Remember back when Brawl first came out, and people though he was amazing?

 

[Deathcarter]

I agree with this.

We should probably discuss Wolf. Has his metagame changed? At all? Is he a character that's just going to keep falling while the lower-C and D-tier characters get the rep they deserve and pass him, or does he have the attributes to continue competing in this metagame.

Everyone else below him (except maybe Shiek though I am not familiar with her so I won't include her) simply does not have the fundamentaly good/great base attributes Wolf holds.

Bowser comes closest to base attributes in comparison to Wolf (not to take anything away from Bowser, but considering all of Wolf's other lower tiered competition, that isn't much of an accomplishment), but him not having that bread and butter move which not only has practically no drawbacks (other than being inferior to other moves of similar worth to their character) and more applications that one can count on one hand, but also that synergy with it's host character like Wolf's bair that most of the higher tiers posses is a major detriment to an argument of him being above Wolf. For example, Bowser is not aerially inclined so Klaw Hopping, although quite useful for the guy, does not incredibly expands Bowser's aerial game. Same goes for his UpB (since Bowser can't FORCE an approach even though it doesn't suggest Bowser has to approach himself).

Wolf only has to really worry about Shiek as of now (until we determine whether or not PT is more capable of a tournament character that we currently beleive)

 

[Xebenkeck]

I like Wolf's B-air. :D

But I feel as if he has the least usable Laser, smashes, and recovery out of the spacies. Not so sure where he should be...

Remember back when Brawl first came out, and people though he was amazing?

Ya when the first list came out he was where Toon link is now.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario for A tier, amirite?

umifrendizrite

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

umifrendizrite

yeshumifrendiz

 

[da K.I.D.]

wolf is one dimensional and basic, but his base stats only allow him to go just so far down, just like GaW, but the things that he does have will always keep him from being low tier

he has a spammable move that does really well, his spacing is top notch, and hes fairly strong.
i think he could be in the middle part of mid tier maybe 1-2 spots lower than where he is now

 

[Palpi]

Niddo, Wolf's smashes are as good or better than Falcos. Falco's dsmash and fsmash aren't very good and his up-smash can be hard to connect with, being one of his few kills options.

Wolf's fsmash and dsmash are both solid smashes, though dsmash is better since it comes out in 8 frames. Fsmash is still pretty punishable when shielded. B-air to fsmash works at certain % as well.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I like Wolf's B-air. :D

But I feel as if he has the least usable Laser, smashes, and recovery out of the spacies. Not so sure where he should be...

Remember back when Brawl first came out, and people though he was amazing?

Eh, he's still a pretty good character, he just needs his metagame to develop. Too bad his laser ends so late, otherwise he could use it to cover approaches.


The thing is, his base stats are great, bair is amazing, d-smash is great, down-b is amazing, and honestly, he's got option, his metagame just needs to develop.

Niddo, Wolf's smashes are as good or better than Falcos. Falco's dsmash and fsmash aren't very good and his up-smash can be hard to connect with, being one of his few kills options.

Wolf's fsmash and dsmash are both solid smashes, though dsmash is better since it comes out in 8 frames. Fsmash is still pretty punishable when shielded. B-air to fsmash works at certain % as well.

F-smash is a punisher, and it's actually an amazing punisher.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Side note, completely unrelated, but my room mate calls Wolf "Captain C-Stick" because of his smashes, lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Talking about Wolf? Yeah, his metagame is highly undeveloped and a lot of you guys probably don't know what you say since few ppl really undertsand him imo. Adum made some good points although fsmash is still somewhat situational even as a punishing move. If you use it to punish stuff you mostly gonna punish baited moves. Wolf can do that very well with his quick movement in the air...kinda like Wario but stronger on the ground.

His recovery blows but there are ways to get around that.

Plus there are no truly good Wolf players around

Edit: No good Wolf spams c-stick lol

 

[Umby]

Side note, completely unrelated, but my room mate calls Wolf "Captain C-Stick" because of his smashes, lol.

He's confusing Wolf with Olimar.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Eh, last time I was on the Wolf boards, they said any smash that wasn't Dsmash sucked, and Dsmash sucked once it staled. *shrugs* Something about being able to shield the second hit of Fsmash on reaction or something like that. It's been a while.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Its because the first hit is supposed to knock you into the second hit.
but if you DI up or DI down into the ground, the second hit will miss completely and let you punish him easily.

I tend to DI up so I can bair him in the head.

 

[Tien2500]

If Wolf mains find a way to really develop his air game he could be really scary. Unfortunately I don't think he has the tools to deal with MK very well and Dedede destroys him so that will keep him from ever getting truly high on the list.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nah, Wolf vs MK isn't that bad at all tbh and D3 is beatable if Wolf runs the clock. Obviously both characters have the advantage over Wolf but neither is unbeatable...

 

[Tien2500]

Nah, Wolf vs MK isn't that bad at all tbh and D3 is beatable if Wolf runs the clock. Obviously both characters have the advantage over Wolf but neither is unbeatable...

MK definitely isn't unbeatable but I would think it'd be as bad as MK vs Marth which while its a winnable matchup it really holds you back due to the abundance of MKs.

And I thought Wolf got ledge infinited or something by Dedede.

If I'm wrong correct me though. I'm sure you know Wolf's matches better than me.

 

[CRASHiC]

Wolf does, but even without the infinite, we still win by a large margin and worse than MK.
Its comparable to the DK matchup, where an already awful matchup is made even worse by an infinite.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf does better than DK either way .... =/

 

[Tien2500]

Wolf does better than DK either way .... =/

Yeah but doing better than DK against Dedede isn't saying much...