The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Meru.]

Really? @_@ I thought it was even. Can you explain why?

 

[Dark.Pch]

It is even. But I think soon enough that match up ratio will break and it will slighty be in Peach favor. as of now it is too hard to come to that logic. Only 2 Peach players to nearly beat atomsk is me and VaNz in tourny. He was having such a hard time. I have to look into this match up more and discover some stuff out. But for now, it's an even fight.

 

[PhantomX]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wario drop a spot or two due to under-representation. He and Diddy are incredibly versatile, having diverse offensive games and strong camping games, so I can see them as being interchangeable. Neither of them really has terrible matchups either.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Lmao, Fox and Wolf's reflectors are FAR better than Falcos reflector.

Ahh, but the Falco shine kick has uses too. Knockback those iffy projectiles from a distance. Shine a mortar and it becomes falco's hitbox even though it doens't chance trajectory of the mortar. Same with many other projectiles that fall from the sky.

I wasn't aware that Olimar did particularly well against Dedede.

Dedede only has a handful of moves, though. Still, they're pretty awesome.

I would expect DDD to not fair well agianst olimar.

I think a DDD main explained it as all you have to do with DDD is run and powershield. Then grab and WoP to death. lol

 

[Xebenkeck]

I don't know why people think im underestimating Falco. I never once said Falco is bad. Falco is a really good character. And the reason i kept him in S tier. I think falco is a step above of DDD and Marth hence why i put
S tier
Falco

A tier
Marth
DDD

 

[-Mars-]

Ahh, but the Falco shine kick has uses too. Knockback those iffy projectiles from a distance. Shine a mortar and it becomes falco's hitbox even though it doens't chance trajectory of the mortar. Same with many other projectiles that fall from the sky.

Yea and Fox and Wolf's reflectors do that too.........so your point?

 

[Red Arremer]

I suppose it's the "ranged" part. :V

 

[Nanaki]

I thought Marth gets at DDD outside of the chain grab. And Idk about snake.

D3/Marth is pretty close to even, but I'd say D3 gets the edge just because he's so much harder for Marth to kill than vice-versa (Marth's quite light - lightest that can be chaingrabbed). Marth's recovery doesn't reach especially far either, so he's pretty susceptible to bair gimps. Fair zoning isn't especially effective against D3, as he can just ftilt to outrange it. Dancing Blade is ftilt food. The only big risk is once D3 is on the ledge or being edgeguarded - Marth can keep swatting him out pretty effectively. They can both chaingrab each other (Marth's ends at moderately low percents and goes too far to chain for long), and can both infinite each other on walls such as PS1. Overall, pretty even with a slight edge to D3.

Snake and Marth is generally thought of as 'close to even' too, but it seems to be pretty hard for Marth, imo. It's very stage-dependent. When Snake can control the stage well, Marth has a major uphill fight. When Marth can get in range more easily, it's closer to even. Snake does kill Marth very early, though. Probably 60-40 Snake.

 

[Spelt]

dedede has an advantage against marth because dedede is a king and marth is a princess.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Actually he's a guy :\

 

[Spelt]

GUYS CAN BE PRINCESSES TOO ):<


caps

 

[Nefarious B]

DDD and Snake are both soooo underated when it comes to matchups, it's kinda rediculous sometimes. Just because you can combo them doesn't mean you're gonna win... and I think it's always hard to comprehend the killing gaps for most characters against those two.

IMO a character with as good bases as Snake will only ever have a very small amount of disadvantaged matchups. Specifically, I would say Olimar and DDD are probably his only true disadvantages, maybe Wario as well.

And DDD is just a fatass, so he will have a few more disadvantaged matchups than Snake. He still has very strong bases though, and for most of the cast if they don't camp him super hard they have absolutely no chance. His disadvantages are probly only Olimar and Ice Climbers, and maybe Pikachu

 

[Dark 3nergy]

DDD and Snake are both soooo underated when it comes to matchups, it's kinda rediculous sometimes. Just because you can combo them doesn't mean you're gonna win... and I think it's always hard to comprehend the killing gaps for most characters against those two.

IMO a character with as good bases as Snake will only ever have a very small amount of disadvantaged matchups. Specifically, I would say Olimar and DDD are probably his only true disadvantages, maybe Wario as well.

And DDD is just a fatass, so he will have a few more disadvantaged matchups than Snake. He still has very strong bases though, and for most of the cast if they don't camp him super hard they have absolutely no chance. His disadvantages are probly only Olimar and Ice Climbers, and maybe Pikachu

A smart DDD will make sure Olimar stays in the air or is pushed off stage. If the olimar is on the ground, oh hell yea thats dangerous business

Falco though, is alot more trouble for a DDD. A solid CG, excellent blaster and camping options with side+b on stage, + DDD cannot chain grab back.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Wario hard for Snake? What/ why?
DDD supposedly isn't bad, either.

 

[fkacyan]

I've never understood why something that has absolutely zero effect on gameplay is debated more heavily and given more attention than things like counterpick lists and whatnot.

 

[demonictoonlink]

^
Decent trolling, but I've seen better.

 

[DMG]

Wario hard for Snake? What/ why?
DDD supposedly isn't bad, either.

Ever seen me on Brinstar? Guaranteed Snake loss.

Lol Wario's not the best Answer to Snake, but he does have the advantage CP wise. Most games will go to Smashville first round (FD, BF, YI Striked leaves Smashville and PS1, and most Snake players would prefer Smashville). Fairly even there, maybe 55:45 Wario's favor. If Wario wins first game though, you can call the set over. Even if you ban Brinstar, he has some strong CP's against Snake.

 

[_Keno_]

^
Decent trolling, but I've seen better.

Either you're a pro troll, or an idiot. Most likely the latter.

the Tier list really means nothing other than who is accepted into low tier tournys, but match-ups and counterpicks mean a lot (but far from everything).

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Ever seen me on Brinstar? Guaranteed Snake loss.

Lol Wario's not the best Answer to Snake, but he does have the advantage CP wise. Most games will go to Smashville first round (FD, BF, YI Striked leaves Smashville and PS1, and most Snake players would prefer Smashville). Fairly even there, maybe 55:45 Wario's favor. If Wario wins first game though, you can call the set over. Even if you ban Brinstar, he has some strong CP's against Snake.

n-n-n-norfair?

 

[fkacyan]

^
Decent trolling, but I've seen better.

I'm not trolling. This pile of crap gets far more attention than many of the highly-debateable stages in the CP list, and discussing matchups in a hundred-pager that nobody cares to look through is useless when each character board has threads dedicated to it. Makes me wish that the mods would lock these things when they posted them.

 

[DMG]

n-n-n-norfair?

n-n-n-no...

 

[Dark 3nergy]

will you enlighten this silly scrub on proper wario stage selection

 

[Spelt]

I'm not trolling. This pile of crap gets far more attention than many of the highly-debateable stages in the CP list, and discussing matchups in a hundred-pager that nobody cares to look through is useless when each character board has threads dedicated to it. Makes me wish that the mods would lock these things when they posted them.

...then people would just converse/argue about them somewhere else.
HELPS SO MUCH.
if you want to discuss stages go discuss stages. :|

 

[Dark 3nergy]

...then people would just converse/argue about them somewhere else.
HELPS SO MUCH.
if you want to discuss stages go discuss stages. :|

u mad about something kiddo

I've never understood why something that has absolutely zero effect on gameplay is debated more heavily and given more attention than things like counterpick lists and whatnot.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243385

read that whole thread, smile, laugh, then frown apon the fact that its a match up thread meant to be taken seriously

 

[Spelt]

yeah i'm mad at you

 

[Dark 3nergy]

yeah i'm mad at you

read that thread i posted above, your anger will slowly subside into nothing-ness..maybe turn into pitty idk read it and tell me what happens

 

[DMG]

When all of you get the chance, I want you to take a look at my Sig (Not the Wario part, the Quote in there) and go ask MalcolmM what he meant in his post.

I'm just gonna type random stuff in here so I can get my sig to show up.

Maybe space a few lines here and there. Also, for the person who asked, Wario is good against Snake on Lylat, Japes, Frigate, Pictochat, and a few others. Avoid BF, Halberd, and maybe something gay like LM or something (or just go MK if that stage is still legal in your state lol).

Who thinks Wario should rise/drop? And Why?


Also, Snake and MK very good. Verryyy good. lol.





Dang still not enough room, oh well now I think it will show. Also, next post I will address people's complaints about Link/Other Low tiers. I'll also try to explain why we made some of the decisions that we did back at that time when we made this version of the list.

 

[Spelt]

sounds sexual.

 

[DMG]

I also made a Social Group that anyone can Join if they wish to Bask in Putty Glory or find out more about the Putty and Malcolm.

Also, Ganon was voted worst character in game because of multiple reasons. He has one of the most ineffective movesets for Brawl, his matchups aren't too good, and because he's flat out Bad. Captain Falcon is Bad, but not as Bad as Ganon. As to why Falcon was put over Link, I know that I personally felt that Falcon's air speed/movement speed combined with solid defensive play gave him a greater chance at winning than Link. How other people thought/why they voted that way is up to them, and if you want to find out I'd suggest asking them personally (if they will tell you.)

 

[zeldspazz]

Who thinks Wario should rise/drop? And Why?


Also, Snake and MK very good. Verryyy good. lol

I think perhaps way in the future, Snake may rise above metaknight. Just my opinion, its just he lasts forever, has hugely disjointed and strong ground game, can tech chase his dthrow, and his nades are **** camping. Dont flame me for this, it just seems Snake, with more tourney results perhaps, may one day rise. The only problem I forsee is his air game, but hes so heavy he can FF nair to the ground, or airdodge once and hes on the ground. His zoning and stage control is phenomenal too.

Also, idk much about Wario, but I think he may drop. I personally think Diddy and Falco are a bit better than him, plus his tourney results arent too hot compared to the other high tiers I believe someone said.

Btw, at the "who can Zelda oucamp" from several pages back, she does outcamp DDD, and Iceclimbers. Those are the only 2 projectile users that she can efficiently outcamp, mainly due to the projectile speed.

Also, Link should be way higher if it wasnt for his ****ing recovery! His on stage game is at least C Tier material, but his recovery puts him in F Tier

Im off to bed, good night all!

 

[DMG]

Actually, when most players talk about Zelda out camping another character it's based not on her own projectile or reflector, but her Defensive Game. Her projectile is fairly bad even against Big characters Like Dedede or DK because it usually lets her opponent gain free space with little relative risk of getting hit. Her Defensive game however, is where she shines.

Dedede and Zelda both kinda suck at Projectile Camping lol. Zelda has a good Defensive Game though that Dedede has to work through to get to her, which does not usually include Din's Fire. Same thing for IC's.

 

[Suspect]

isnt projectile camping defensive

 

[zeldspazz]

Which is why good Zeldas dont camp. Simple as that. Its a situational projectile.

Btw, the good thing about Dins as that people underrate its range at its full distance, that thing covers over 1/4 of final destination horizontally, and that same distance vertically.

 

[DMG]

Projectile Camping IS defensive, but that's not what most people are talking about when they say "Oh yeah Zelda can give Dedede/IC's/character trouble when she camps." People aren't talking about her using Din, they are referring to her close range "zoning".

 

[zeldspazz]

I think Zelda i does well against Iceclimbers because she can easily seperate them with a lot of her moves. Dins will never be a deciding factor in a matchups, it hinders no opponent to that extent

 

[Spelt]

i'd just stay away from din's completely against ICs, except when they're off stage.
you mess it up and you lose a stock.

 

[DMG]

I think Zelda i does well against Iceclimbers because she can easily seperate them with a lot of her moves. Dins will never be a deciding factor in a matchups, it hinders no opponent to that extent

Well yeah, for IC's that is an issue too. But that's kinda specific compared to overall just saying she does well at keeping certain characters away from her.

 

[xDD-Master]

xDD-logic =D

OK because you discussed my last reply I introduce you now xDD-logic tier list (lol):

----- First Class Soldiers - That characters can frighten other character because of special things/moves/tricks/options/whatever -----
1. MK - For having frame advantage on nearly everyone and everyones options and every situation.
2. Snake - For having broken tilts and a grenade camping game which is hard to beat
3. Diddy - For having broken bananas which gives him imo the best OoS options in the game, he can also combo pretty well.
4. Wario - For Having an awesome air camping game which leads into an "punish every mistake"-game. His fart is broken as well (Combined with his stalling abilities)
5. ICs - For having infintes over the whole cast except facing themselves (ditto)
----- Second Class Soldiers - The following two character are a "link" between this class and the next because their ability to frighten other characters are match-up dependend (Thats why these characters are good as a secondary) -----
6. Falco - For having Chaingrabs on a lot of characters. CG2Dair is an instant Stock or a very big advantage against a lot of characters. He has 1-3 match-ups in which he gets *****.
7. Dedede - For having Chaingrabs on a lot of characters and an infinite on 5 (?iirc?). The infinite makes the characters nearly tournament inviable and the chaingrab itself (No infi) makes some characters having a bad match-up vs. him. He gets ***** as well by 1-4 characters.
----- Third Class Soldiers - This Characters or the one you can main as well without the need of an secondary but they dont have fearing thing the Top 5 has -----
8. Marth
Pikachu
ZSS
Kirby
Gaw
Olimar
Lucario (maybe in the 4th Class)
Zelda/Sheik (maybe in the 4th Class)
----- Fourth Class Soldiers - Next characters are the characters who should use a secondary to help in some Match-ups etc. -----
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Toon Link
Pit
ROB
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Mario (maybe in the 5th Class)
Pkmn Trainer (maybe in the 5th Class)
Ike (maybe in the 5th Class)
Ness (maybe in the 5th Class)
Lucas (maybe in the 5th Class)
----- Fifth Class Soldiers - Last one would be all the really bad characters -----
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff


Note: Characters after Marth do have no specific order ^^

The Top | High | Middle | Low | Bottom system would be back =D


So what do you think about my ideas xD ?

 

[Dark.Pch]

To me this idea is no good. Cause no play or characters scares me as Peach. And I don't need a secondary when I am Peach. Others feel like they do but not me.

 

[xDD-Master]

To me this idea is no good. Cause no play or characters scares me as Peach. And I don't need a secondary when I am Peach. Others feel like they do but not me.

Yeah thats you, there are also Links who thinks they can do it all Link in a tourney xD

But I said: "Next characters are the characters who should use a secondary to help in some Match-ups etc."... and not "[...]have to[...]" ^^