The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Xiahou Dun]

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario
A: King Dedede, Falco, Diddy, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch
B: ROB, Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Ice Climbers
C: Zero Suit Samus, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda/Sheik
D: Toon Link, Peach, Pit, Wolf, Luigi
E: Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Bowser, Ike, Ness
F: Mario, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Yoshi
G: Lucas, Samus, Link
H: Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon

Probably the most solid thing I've ever seen from random peoples own personal lists in this thread. Wario COULD be one group lower. Ice Climbers COULD be one group higher. Zelda/Sheik COULD be one group lower Pit COULD be one group higher Ness COULD be one group lower. But really none of those do I feel strongly about.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm not too knowledgeable about Pit, to be honest. The rest I tried to place as good as I could, and exactly those characters you name I wasn't sure about... borderliners which exactly mark the line between those.

 

[Snakeee]

I like Spade's list for the most part, but Wario should maybe be switched with Diddy

also Sheik>Zelda
Solo Sheik should be D I think

 

[Red Arremer]

also Sheik>Zelda
Solo Sheik should be D I think

That list of mine doesn't really say that Zelda is better than Sheik, it says that both of them are in the same group of ... uhm... "character potential"? I dunno. But not exact placements.

I myself think Diddy is slightly overrated (although being definitely Top 5), and that Wario has far more potential than he's thought to have. He is definitely among the Top 5, and I can see him on the rise. He has like MK pretty much no disadvantageous matchups.

 

[phi1ny3]

Why is DK so much better than Bowser?

Because he's bigger, faster, and stronger too!
He's the first member, of,
the D-K-CREW!

@Spadefox's list: imo D3 should go one bit lower, I think people are learning how to fight him more often, and stuff isn't getting as scary. I also feel Zelda/sheik could go lower, but that's because we have some really good TL's near our area. I feel it's pretty well put together (
Honestly, I think lucario is going to go down possibly one on the list, but should probably find himself higher than Oli/ZSS.
Poke trainer should get the poke's separated in list lol.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Because he's bigger, faster, and stronger too!
He's the first member, of,
the D-K-CREW!

@Spadefox's list: imo D3 should go one bit lower, I think people are learning how to fight him more often, and stuff isn't getting as scary. I also feel Zelda/sheik could go lower, but that's because we have some really good TL's near our area. I feel it's pretty well put together (
Honestly, I think lucario is going to go down possibly one on the list, but should probably find himself higher than Oli/ZSS.
Poke trainer should get the poke's separated in list lol.

^^^lol at te first thing!

 

[Red Arremer]

@Spadefox's list: imo D3 should go one bit lower, I think people are learning how to fight him more often, and stuff isn't getting as scary.

You think Dedede is B Group? o_o
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[phi1ny3]

You think Dedede is B Group? o_o
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Oh whoops, this a group list! Ok
no he should stay in the same group, but certainly not the same spot in that group.

 

[Red Arremer]

The spots mean pretty much nothing. You can exchange everyone pretty much how much you want, but that's how the characters are grouped together, imo.

 

[Alzi]

MK and Snake are 1st and 2nd. Fery few people would disagree. When it comes to 3rd, it could be Falco, Wario, Diddy, Dedede, G&W or Sonic.

I think Falco will stay third for a while.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why is Sonic so very high? He should be lower.
He doesn't have much if any going for him.

He has speed and some mindgames but otherwise, it is very easy to limit what he can do and keep him there.
What will he do? Spring?
Big deal he has poor aerial mobility so you can land camp him pretty badly.
Oh he is going to Dair? Its not hard to see what direction he faces as he rises from the spring.

His extremely hard time with killing holds him back severely as does his limitations in the air and on the ground.

Place him a full group lower.

 

[choknater]

You seem to not know much about Sonic lol... He's more about momentum, mixups, and reaction than the things you mentioned. Playing Sonic = playing Brawl a little differently in general.

 

[Red Arremer]

Not to mention tournament results.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You seem to not know much about Sonic lol... He's more about momentum, mixups, and reaction than the things you mentioned. Playing Sonic = playing Brawl a little differently in general.

Reaction? big deal. Several characters can you one option to answer several of his options and at worst, they exchange blows, which Sonic will suffer most seeing his fastest moves are ll multi hit and do poor damage per hit.

All of Sonic's behavior is easily limited by using a safe option that leaves him no room to punish.
At which point he is forced to paly riskily of which he does not benefit much from at all.

He plays high risk with low reward, meanwhile every other character has at least an option that while it may be risky, affords them high reward.


Playing Sonic=playing against a fly.
Yeah he can buzz around with his acrobatics but really, he hits weakly, and its all just movement without any purpose.
Running back and forth does nothing. I'll smack him once and thats it.

Not to mention tournament results.

The thing is that tournament results require human input.
Yeah Sonic moves around and can seem confusing but once you figure him out you can take him apart very easily. Once people get accustomed to Sonic he will drop quickly.

 

[iliveanddie]

G Tier
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario
A: King Dedede, Falco, Diddy, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch
B: ROB, Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Ice Climbers
C: Zero Suit Samus, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda/Sheik
D: Toon Link, Peach, Pit, Wolf, Luigi
E: Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Bowser, Ike, Ness
F: Mario, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Yoshi
G: Lucas, Samus, Link
H: Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon

Woohoo! Jiggly is last tier, and stayed their too! YES! (not being sarcastic, I like lower tier characters)

 

[Deathcarter]

Although I agree about the distinctions in potential between the groups for the most part, that list still has WAY too many tiers. If the SBR plans to imporve from this list, there should not be any more than 6 tiers imo if for no other reason other than the gaps between each group being quite small.

 

[Red Arremer]

Top:
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario
A: King Dedede, Falco, Diddy, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch

High:
B: ROB, Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Ice Climbers
C: Zero Suit Samus, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda/Sheik

Mid:
D: Toon Link, Peach, Pit, Wolf, Luigi
E: Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Bowser, Ike, Ness

Low:
F: Mario, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Yoshi
G: Lucas, Samus, Link

Bottom:
H: Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon

 

[deepseadiva]

Who is the third best in the game?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Who is the third best in the game?

Currently, it's pretty much up for grabs between Wario, Diddy, DDD, Falco, G&W and maybe Marth.

 

[Red Arremer]

Wario.

10nodisadvantageousmatchups

 

[Morrigan]

Top:
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario
A: King Dedede, Falco, Diddy, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch

High:
B: ROB, Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Ice Climbers
C: Zero Suit Samus, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda/Sheik

Mid:
D: Toon Link, Peach, Pit, Wolf, Luigi
E: Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Bowser, Ike, Ness

Low:
F: Mario, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Yoshi
G: Lucas, Samus, Link

Bottom:
H: Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon

Did they ever address the inclusion of "Zelda/Sheik" to the tier list?
And why would you place them above Tink, Peach, Pit or Wolf/Luigi?

 

[deepseadiva]

Wario.

10nodisadvantageousmatchups

Wha...?

I know at least Peach has one. I'm sure there's more.

 

[Red Arremer]

No, the SBR didn't, but many people did. Including them only makes sense. Here's an essay/thread I made about that matter:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226311

As for them being High Tier together: Read the thread. Check out the boards and Matchup-charts. Matchups are covered when playing the other character. Sheik has 50:50 on Bowser (that advantage I gave him is old information) but gets 60:40 on him when switching to Zelda, just as an example.
Bad matchups can be covered. It just takes high skill to master both characters to the extent where you can play both of them on high level.

@Meno:
Wasn't Peach's advantage on Wario like.. 55:45? That's still counted as even, and although being a slight disadvantage, it's not really worth a mention.
Generally said, Wario has about the same MU digits as MK, just with a slight downhill, meaning that his worse matchups are normally harder than for MK - sans him not being the best.

 

[Yonder]

Wario.

10nodisadvantageousmatchups

...Luigi?

10maybeluigis

 

[Red Arremer]

...Luigi?

10maybeluigis

lol. Luigi is good, but nothing better than Mid Tier.

 

[Kinzer]

I think he was saying/asking if Weegee was a Wario CP, with at least a 5 ponit advantage over him, but I dunno.

I'm tired, I'm gonna crash, nighty night.

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh... well, there applies the same as for Peach: Wario's even/slightly disadvantageous matchups are pretty much the only thing. He has no real hard counter as far as I am aware of, and everything else is like 5-10 points advantage, which can be harder, but not impossible. It's just an uphill battle, if you want.

I mean MK has 50:50 as worst matchup. If Wario's worst matchup is 45:55, it doesn't make much difference than MK, just that Wario doesn't have it as "easy" as MK.

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

lol. Luigi is good, but nothing better than Mid Tier.

I still think he deserves to be lower.

If these tier lists are based off of tourney results, and from what I've read, Luigi has done poorly in tourneys, then how in the world is he as high as he is, and not down with Mario and those other characters that are low?

 

[Kinzer]

It's not just strong tourney results, there's a bunch of other factors too, such has much a character's metagame has developed since the last update.

Plus a buncha other radicals I'm too tired/lazy to mention.

I need to go to @#$%ing sleep already GD it.

 

[gm jack]

Did they ever address the inclusion of "Zelda/Sheik" to the tier list?
And why would you place them above Tink, Peach, Pit or Wolf/Luigi?

Because currently, Zelda/Shiek is given as having an advantage over every one of those characters, even if individually they may have a disadvantage.

In fact, IIRC, the only disadvantageous matchups are G&W, Lucario, Marth, Meta Knigh and Snake. Not bad at all, considering 4 are top tier and 1 is high tier.

 

[Nixernator]

How is Wario better than Diddy? I'm just asking, because overall I thought Diddy seems like a better choice for 3rd, he gets on a roll and its game over. Wario gets on a roll it becomes a hard battle but it is far easier to get back in, it just seems Diddy has the potential to dominate a game better. Maybe its just because I face no good Warios.

 

[Frown]

Air camping. Wario can jump around like a b*tch and hit, airdodge, hit, airdodge, hit etc.

 

[Red Arremer]

Diddy is darn good character. He's Top 5. Granted: If he dominates a character, he domintes them badly. But he has several bad matchups in High Tier, and even two hard counters (Luigi, Olimar). And... Wario doesn't have that. True, he doesn't hard counter a lot of characters, but just like Meta Knight, Wario doesn't have any badly disadvantegous matchups. The worst it gets for Wario is 45:55 in the other character's favor.
I know about the grab release stuff almost all characters have on Wario, but a good Wario will not be in grab range for the most of the time and play horrendously gay, with aircamping and whatnot.

Wario is easily one of the best characters in the game. He's also a heavyweight and has an outrageous recovery on top of that, making him far harder to kill than Meta Knight. I personally think Wario is Top 3.

 

[Nixernator]

So the consensus for top 5 seems to be MK, Snake, Wario, Diddy?, then who? Falco?

 

[Frown]

No, Dedede is in there. Best DI in the game, third heaviest character, can give nearly 40% by just performing two grabs (pummel + bthrow). Lots of priority, chaingrabs more than half of the cast, gordos.

 

[Red Arremer]

Acceptably good recovery, and godly BAir.

Yea. De3 pretty much seals the Top 5. Falco would be in there, I guess, if it wasn't for the horrible matchups against part of the cast, such as Pikachu who CGs him into oblivion.

 

[M.K]

I think Bowser is vastly overrated. Yes, he has grab releases and some potential against Meta-Knight, but NOBODY is placing with him ANYWHERE. Even the Bowser mains are switching to different characters.

Bowser should not be grouped with Fox, Zelda, and Luigi, he's just not THAT good. Contrarily, I believe Pokemon Trainer is proving his worth with increased tournament results. His problem is not mediocrity, but rather it is that almost nobody has mastered all three Pokemon. Those that do, however, do very well.

 

[boss8]

1.falco
2.snake
3.mk
4.wario
5.olimar

these are the top 5 in no specific order....

 

[Red Arremer]

He's not grouped with Peach, at least not on my list.

And Bowser is definitely NOT underrated. You know why people don't place with him? I'll give you two reasons:
1.) An unwinnable matchup against a very common character (De3)
2.) People just like you who are assuming **** on Bowser. Seriously. He's not that bad as everyone thinks, and he is definitely not slow. =|

 

[boss8]

underrated....

Zss
luigi
mario
bowser
toonlink
samus

most of these characters are underrated.....

but most people who do main them wont admit it cause they will automatically switch to MK sadly.....

or they would pick up a top tier to counter MK or any other top tier...

then again tiers are gay and dont really matter....