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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

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TheReflexWonder

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How? Bowsers recovery is very hard to gimp. There are a lot of recoveries out there that are easier. If bowser is near the stage, he can use up b and get there quite quick since it's a pretty fast move. If he's far he can jump and DI in and then recover and seeing how bowser is the heaviest/tied for heaviest char getting him far off won't happen until higher damage. Plus, When you DO go for a gimp, we can up B before you do and take advantage of UB's invincibility frames and very good priority.



If the bowser players using his laggy moves to often he's playing wrong.
We don't NEED the speed. Are moves ae fast enough and have quite a big range that we can take advantage of that. Moves like ftilt, dtilt, fortress etc. have more then enough range to keep enemies away.

Also, most of his powerful moves have advantages a well. Fsmash has a drawback animation and isn't to laggy (except ending lag). Upsmash has a giant hitbox and destroys people on platforms as well as having good range. Dsmash can punish rolers to some extent but other then that you won't see this one to often.



His grab isn't "terrible", it's bad but definitely doesn't qualify as terrible. Bowser's shield is huge so you'll be seeing quite a bit of out of shield grabs. Playing on platforms means upsmash for you. Staying near the edge is also not very safe since he doesn't HAVE to grab you.

Last hit can lead to many things depending on the char. A lot of chars suffer from getting klawed which could be a free cide if possible and if not it's a guaranteed 18-19 damage. Wario gets hit by all (or almost, not sure about dsmash) of bowsers smashes on air release and on ground release he gets quite a bit as well. Jiggs gets a free uair and bowsers uair is very good. There are also other things like jabs, regrab, dtilt (which on the edge can kill quite well on certain chars) etc.

Saying "missing a grab" isn't a very valid argument. It's not that hard to use the chain grab and after even a couple days of practice most people have it down.



Camping isn't very good against bowser (read the rest before you kill me for that). I mean that it isn't something new or amazing that will wreck bowser. Power shielding is quite easy and bowsers shield is also big enough for him to get far. Bowser can use ^b which clings with quite a bit of projectiles thanks to high priority and invincibility frames. It also cancels automatically when hit. Sheik can't camp us very well can't say anything about the other two but there matchup isn't that bad for bowser (44-55 each). Combo's in brawl?!?!?! :p Seriously though the can juggle him but we can get out and fortress is usually a good way.


Klaw hopping, power shielding, fortress and more are all examples of bowser approaching. They all work quite well =/

Yes bowser can't force approch very well (usually just using fire and a few other things) but he CAN approach. In-ability to force approach isn't enough to put someone in low tier IMO

-:bowser:Bowser King
Bowser pretty much has to come from below. Unless I'm mistaken, when sweetspotting the ledge, Bowser's Up-B hitbox does not last as long as a well-timed edge grab, so it can be as easy as grabbing the edge before him at times...which is fairly bad...

Bowser will pretty much have to approach anyone with a projectile, and it's more about speed than range. D-Tilt and Up-B will leave Bowser open, and F-Tilt can get shieldgrabbed without TOO much trouble.

Bowser's Forward-Smash is fairly easy to see coming, and for any of his Smashes, if they miss, they're laggy enough to get punished for using, which is what matters.

His grab range is utter garbage unless he uses a running grab, and if he whiffs a running grab, he's taking some major punishment. An opponent on a platform can jump away from the Up-Smash or fall through the platform with an airdodge and punish an Up-Smash. If I'm not mistaken, his standing grab is somewhat slow as well, further hampering its effectiveness.

Staying near the edge is more beneficial for the opponent than it is for Bowser, because it allows other chaingrabbing characters more space to do their thing, and it takes away one of Bowser's options.

Bowser's not going to be able to grab Wario. Just saying.

Powershielding will only get you so far between Falco and Sheik's jabs and grabs in-between. For Sheik, if you use an Up-B to get out of a juggle, then you're easy pickings for a sweetspotted Up-Smash.

Klawhopping isn't difficult to outrange, a walking shield is just begging to get grabbed, and Up-B goes so far, as the opponent will try baiting it in order to punish it. Bowser can approach, sure, but he can't do it that well...
 

PKNintendo

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Defense is just a wall-of-pain. Lots of characters have that. His approaching game is negligible because he can't do much when he's inside.

B-Air and B-Throw kill, but that's all for reliable ones.

Grab release stuff hampers him a whole lot. Since EIDI is nonexistent, Charizard and Marth take him for free.
Charizard and Marth never had him the begining.

EIDI was SUPPOSED to make it nonexistant, but you could Super grab Break(16 inputs really fast, such as spinning the control stick and flicking the C-stick) for minimal damage at low %.

Nice Wall of post later on, or I would **** you in the ******** and ***** and flame the **** out of you lol.

You must main him now.
 

TheReflexWonder

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EIDI was SUPPOSED to make it nonexistant, but you could Super grab Break(16 inputs really fast, such as spinning the control stick and flicking the C-stick) for minimal damage at low %.
One cool thing; I believe the same can be said about any of Yoshi's chaingrabs, so the chaingrab-to-spike on Squirtle only works at about 50-60% on someone like me, because if you break out at the edge fast enough, Yoshi slides off the stage immediately because he still has the momentum from his running grab.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's not "sixteen inputs really fast", so much as it is breaking out before the opponent has the chance to even pummel you. As a result, once an opponent hits about 50%, you're pretty much guaranteed a grab-to-regrab with Charizard or Marth, and Charizard can finish with a sweetspotted D-Tilt, which is awesome.
 

choknater

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I wonder if Sheik's position will move up... Right now she is below Fox, Bowser, Zelda, Luigi, Wolf...

I think she should go past Zelda ^^; (bias)
 

:mad:

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I think Mario should be at about 3rd, and Ness at 2nd. They'll ban MK, so that leaves first for Luigi.
 

choknater

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No, Luigi's poor range keeps him below Snake.
Why so serious?

I wonder who would get 3rd place at the next tier list.

1. MK
2. Snake




3................................?

Could be G&W, DDD, Wario....

....Sheik....... who knows!?
 

Red Arremer

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lol choknater is too good with his Sheik propaganda :p

Falco is crashing down, I think. Wario or De3 will be 3rd.
 

Ismael

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I think Mario should be at about 3rd, and Ness at 2nd. They'll ban MK, so that leaves first for Luigi.
Straked, as a guy that dosn't "double mains" or "triple mains" characters, and only mains Mario, I resent that. If your going to "support" Mario yet stick him in 3rd, you might as well leave him as is and just support Ness and Luigi (*gasp* no green color font!!!! >_>) for top teir.

I'm just messing with you. XD

But seriously, Mario needs to be bottom of bottom teir... 'cause that's how he rolls.
 

Red Arremer

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I love how High Tier mains are like "We are so good ^_^"
Mid Tier mains are like "Man, we should be higher than [insert other Mid Tier character here]",
Low Tier mains are like "We suck more than everyone else, drop us below Falcon ;-;"
and Falcon mains are like "We are Bottom? No matter, our manliness makes up for it *flex*".
 

gm jack

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Does anyone know if Zelda/Shiek as a single character is going to be included in the new tier list? It is certainly better than either separately(you can chose not to use one if the matchup heavily favours on or the other of the pair) and the ability to swap can allow to take the best of both worlds against characters that being one of the pair can bring.

Swapping also allows mid match refreshing of moves and complete changes of tactics to keep them off guard.
 

Ismael

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I love how High Tier mains are like "We are so good ^_^"
Mid Tier mains are like "Man, we should be higher than [insert other Mid Tier character here]",
Low Tier mains are like "We suck more than everyone else, drop us below Falcon ;-;"
and Falcon mains are like "We are Bottom? No matter, our manliness makes up for it *flex*".
High Tier mainers MEAN IT when they say they are so good.
Mid Teair mainers MEAN IT when they say they should be above a certain character.
Falcon Mains MEAN IT when they say that Falcon is still awsome.

Low Tier mains DON'T MEAN IT when they say their character is the suckiest. It's just an inside joke we have.

It's just annoying when higher tier characters take that joke and think they're funny.

"Man, Ness sucks, he can't even recover" LOL
"Mario sucks so hard, I'm thinking of changing my main" LOL
"Lucas sucks, because he just does" LOL

"Diddy Kong sucks" -_- ... ... ... ... Uh, no... he dosn't...
"Snake really sucks because-" Dude, you can't even PRETEND that he sucks, your not funny...

The only exception is us Marios, we want him to go down for the sake of winning with a so called "bad" character. We already do, but it's fun seeing him get underestimated even more. But bottom of bottom teir is too much. I was just joking. XD
 

Red Arremer

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I knew you were joking, and I know every other Low Tier main is joking, too, when saying their character should go down. =P

Though for Lucas... Lucas DOES simply suck, so that's maybe only halfly joking, lol.
Ness DOES have problems recovering, and can be easily gimped.

The thing is: Even Low Tier characters in Brawl can be amazing if played right. That may not be true for like, the bottom 5 or so characters, but in general I think Brawl is oddly balanced. The gap in between High and Low is not as big as in Melee, simply because every character has their opportunity and great matchups even against High Tiers.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I love how High Tier mains are like "We are so good ^_^"
Mid Tier mains are like "Man, we should be higher than [insert other Mid Tier character here]",
Ike Mains are like "Stop trying to place us into low tier dang it! We're mid tier for a reason!"
Sonic Mains are like "Steak Tier pls"

Low Tier mains are like "We suck more than everyone else, drop us below Falcon ;-;"
and Falcon mains are like "We are Bottom? No matter, our manliness makes up for it *flex*".
Fix'd for accuracy. XD
 

Ismael

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It's nice to have Bowser above Mario, now they can't complain about him being a bad character when I beat them. XD

While I would prefer Mario to go lower, the only person I see going above Mario in the future is Ness. As pathetic as his recovery may seem, Mario's is just as bad. Ness' recovery is more deadly and flexible. His spike can kill at 0% (I know right, wtf?), PK Fire to fsmash/back throw is ****** strong, and he's just a really good character when used right, with far better KO moves then Mario. He's the only one that actually deserves the top spot of low tier. Everyone else under Mario: meh.
 

Tenki

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Fix'd for accuracy. XD
Yes.

now they can't complain about him being a bad character when I beat them. XD

While I would prefer Mario to go lower, the only person I see going above Mario in the future is Ness. As pathetic as his recovery may seem, Mario's is just as bad. Ness' recovery is more deadly and flexible. His spike can kill at 0% (I know right, wtf?), PK Fire to fsmash/back throw is ****** strong, and he's just a really good character when used right, with far better KO moves then Mario. He's the only one that actually deserves the top spot of low tier. Everyone else under Mario: meh.
who
really

...

bad character johns are still johns lol.
 

Red Arremer

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Well it does kinda depend... the tier list is not as clear as in Melee, as Brawl is (oddly enough) more balanced than its prequel.

Pretty much every character has some horrible matchups, and those can range into the low tier. Despite not happening often.
 

chandy

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Well it does kinda depend... the tier list is not as clear as in Melee, as Brawl is (oddly enough) more balanced than its prequel.

Pretty much every character has some horrible matchups, and those can range into the low tier. Despite not happening often.
Apart from Meta Knight, but apart from him agreed. Even C falcon has potential

While I would prefer Mario to go lower, the only person I see going above Mario in the future is Ness. As pathetic as his recovery may seem, Mario's is just as bad. Ness' recovery is more deadly and flexible. His spike can kill at 0% (I know right, wtf?), PK Fire to fsmash/back throw is ****** strong, and he's just a really good character when used right, with far better KO moves then Mario. He's the only one that actually deserves the top spot of low tier. Everyone else under Mario: meh.
Errr, Ness, you really think so... O.o
 

woody72691

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wario must go down cause other characters are climbing the ranks. why would have a tier list with one of the most annoying characters in the world close to the top??
 

Red Arremer

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wario must go down cause other characters are climbing the ranks. why would have a tier list with one of the most annoying characters in the world close to the top??
How is Wario "annoying"? The tier list is not a popularity contest, and I think many people like him. Just because you don't like him as a character it doesn't mean he's bad. I could say the same about Marth. lol

Besides, yes. Characters are climbing the ranks. Among them: Wario. Wario is Top 5 material. Easily. He definitely won't go down.
 

Noa.

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It's nice to have Bowser above Mario, now they can't complain about him being a bad character when I beat them. XD

While I would prefer Mario to go lower, the only person I see going above Mario in the future is Ness. As pathetic as his recovery may seem, Mario's is just as bad. Ness' recovery is more deadly and flexible. His spike can kill at 0% (I know right, wtf?), PK Fire to fsmash/back throw is ****** strong, and he's just a really good character when used right, with far better KO moves then Mario. He's the only one that actually deserves the top spot of low tier. Everyone else under Mario: meh.
I want to say that Ness's PK fire is pathetic. It's too laggy to hit with in the first place, and even when it does hit you can only get a grab at low percents. Pk fire>Bthrow isn't really a viable kill setup except on heavy characters.

But Ness does have some killer aerials. They're good for damage racking and killing in some cases.
 
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