The Official Ohio Brawl Power Rankings (11/25/12: NEW RANKINGS UPDATED!)

[QUIVO]

I don't think anyone dislikes it.

I personally would like to see what tournaments were used for the data. I thought AZ brought up an interesting point with the Kentucky tournaments.. I was actually surprised i was even listed since I hardly attended anything during those dates.

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

...I can't believe what I'm seeing.

 

[Y.b.M.]

...I can't believe what I'm seeing.

Thats what she said... Sorry I had to do it....

 

[solecalibur]

OS figured out a scheme too
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267630

Its based on attendance you need to go to a handful of tounrys and place high compared to Who beat who? Both are viable but I'm preferring these PRings as of now

 

[ArgentStew]

The only people that don't are the ones that realize they aren't as good without popularity backing them.

I've been thoroughly convinced this PR is a big popularity contest, and there is a fair amount of bias in it... However, I still lack understanding of the criteria for top 10/HMs which simply seems to change month to month based on who you all wanna put up here...

Then again, I have had a very very poor view of this list since like the second month... That hasn't changed any...

 

[Suyon]

Beauty Pageants?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

hey ohio, socal is flying people out to cali for free if you guys are interested

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=60908 just send in a paragraph and if we pick you we'll get you a plane ticket out here for one of our tournaments. anyone moderately known has a good chance of winning, as we're looking for good players that don't travel much due to money johns.

if you're interested the deadline is march 25th for applications

 

[Kel]

I've been thoroughly convinced this PR is a big popularity contest, and there is a fair amount of bias in it... However, I still lack understanding of the criteria for top 10/HMs which simply seems to change month to month based on who you all wanna put up here...

Then again, I have had a very very poor view of this list since like the second month... That hasn't changed any...

Dude, we don't even know I'm pretty sure

Beauty Pageants?

and pokemon contests!


Also, Beegs doesn't really get much recognition. Go to tournaments, Beegs!

 

[ArgentStew]

I swear you guys just pick the people you wanna put in there and then rationalize why they deserve the spot... Seems to make sense based on what I have seen and heard in the past...

I'm sorry for these egregious remarks... I know you all on the panel work hard on this list... But I just can't help to hate it from past experience... To be quite honest, I'm also bitter about the present state of things... Nothing has improved IMO...

 

[Tyr_03]

The PR doesn't need to have additional people on it. It's big enough. Get better if you want to be on it.

OS's thing doesn't really recognize people's accomplishments in national tournaments like Pound 4 unless they make top 8 which is obviously significantly more difficult than it is in regional or locals.

People who complain about this PR tend to not do much about it like posting their set results. Obviously it's a flawed system but if you want to go up or get on it, you should get results and then post them so that the panelists can more easily notice/remember them.

It's pretty pointless to argue over spots on a PR anyway. Just win. It's hard to be sore about what people think of your playing when you're taking their money...

Argent's mad lol

 

[Eddie G]

I swear you guys just pick the people you wanna put in there and then rationalize why they deserve the spot... Seems to make sense based on what I have seen and heard in the past...

FALSE. If that were the case I'd have put Beegs up as one of the higher honorable mentions in a heartbeat. I think he's an amazing player, a great Marth player, and definitely underrated, but as you can clearly see...I didn't put him up there because I felt as if the honorable mentions on my list had accomplished more within the span of time that I researched (early December-start of March). He had come close by defeating Quivo at Wings and Brew, but because Quivo is inactive and Suyon 2-0'd Nope at delta (and Nope is active), I felt the need to give the nod to Suyon. How on earth is that considered "just picking out who I want then rationalizing it?".

PLEASE DO NOT associate the PR's past with me, Y.b.M., or Kiest. That's unfair and you're not giving us a fair enough amount of time to try and help the progression of this list down the road (we had to make lists within 2-3 days from the time we were invited to the date the list was due for crying out loud, and I cannot speak for the others but I spent a hefty amount of hours researching everything as best as I could before just "cranking out" my list as you imply).

Nothing has improved IMO

Things take time. Look at the bright side, at least the panelists were active and everything was done on time. Or did that just suddenly go unnoticed?

 

[Y.b.M.]

Took the words right out of my mouth KB....

I went pretty hard as well.... At least 4 hours straight....

 

[QUIVO]

People most of the time would give reasons for a persons placing on the list. I remember when I first got onto the panelist, I would write down who placed where and who they lost to/beat. The problem with that is its biased.

For example, there was this one time where I think Kel lost to Blue Rogue (this was before BR started doing well) and I placed Kel lower due to that. My way of doing it was flawed, but that's why there were other panelists to even my opinions out. I believe Nope/Lou had a points system for who voted for who.

 

[ArgentStew]

FALSE. If that were the case I'd have put Beegs up as one of the higher honorable mentions in a heartbeat. I think he's an amazing player, a great Marth player, and definitely underrated, but as you can clearly see...I didn't put him up there because I felt as if the honorable mentions on my list had accomplished more within the span of time that I researched (early December-start of March). He had come close by defeating Quivo at Wings and Brew, but because Quivo is inactive and Suyon 2-0'd Nope at delta (and Nope is active), I felt the need to give the nod to Suyon. How on earth is that considered "just picking out who I want then rationalizing it?".

First of all, how is it clear from the list that no one put Beegs as an honorable mention? I've had one or two people place me as an HM one time without seeing my name on the list before... Sometimes there have been people that get put on more people's HM lists, so they got the recognition... Unless that has changed too which makes me even more confused...

Second, it has definitely seemed that way in the past though especially when there was a lot of room for bias with 9 panelists... I hope that you and the others change all this...

PLEASE DO NOT associate the PR's past with me, Y.b.M., or Kiest.

For this I apologize... I haven't started following it again until maybe a day or two ago, and I forget that the panelists have changed...

Things take time. Look at the bright side, at least the panelists were active and everything was done on time. Or did that just suddenly go unnoticed?

The timing never really bothered me, so I could care less how often it was updated... I always know when I will or, more often, won't be on this list...

People who complain about this PR tend to not do much about it like posting their set results. Obviously it's a flawed system but if you want to go up or get on it, you should get results and then post them so that the panelists can more easily notice/remember them.

Frankly, I don't care if I'm ever on this list as long as I feel its not worth being recognized here... Besides, I only remember ever seeing you post any kinda results here...

Argent's mad lol

How is that any different from my usual posting in this thread? With all the people I heard mentioning bias, it's obvious the PR needs its worst critic to keep things in check... Kidding, of course on that... I wanna make that clear so people don't jump on me for it...

 

[Tyr_03]

I have posted several times on this thread with set results from recent tournaments so people remember them. I haven't recently because I haven't been that interested in competing in a while.

And if you don't care then why are you taking the time to make posts about it lol?

The power rankings are biased and there's no real way around it. How people do in tournaments is influenced by a lot of things. For example, when good players mess around in pools and get low seeding it can make lower level players lose earlier in the bracket than they might have otherwise. This presumably is why the PR likes to look at who people beat/lost to. I personally would even consider matchups in it. It's not horribly surprising to me that King Beef can beat Blue Rogue multiple times because I know how bad Peach can be for Wario. It's still an accomplishment obviously but it's something that should be taken into consideration before using Inui logic and assuming King Beef is the best in the state or something.

You kind of have to take the bad with the good. Or else ignore this one and follow OS's Ohio Rankings which are really cool albeit flawed in other ways in my opinion.

 

[ArgentStew]

And if you don't care then why are you taking the time to make posts about it lol?

I honestly wish I had an answer for this... I just curious and checked it one day... Then I got interested... Then I saw something I didn't like and got mad without knowing all the facts...

Why do I keep forgetting that all this happens and throw myself into the fire again?

 

[Eddie G]

First of all, how is it clear from the list that no one put Beegs as an honorable mention? I've had one or two people place me as an HM one time without seeing my name on the list before... Sometimes there have been people that get put on more people's HM lists, so they got the recognition... Unless that has changed too which makes me even more confused...

It's clear because every panelist who took part in this vote posted their individual lists on the thread post-update. Just go back a few pages and you'll see that he isn't on anyone's Honorable Mentions. I know you don't prefer to anymore, but maybe you should try to keep up with the thread just enough to still know what's going on.

Second, it has definitely seemed that way in the past though especially when there was a lot of room for bias with 9 panelists... I hope that you and the others change all this...

I hope so as well.

For this I apologize... I haven't started following it again until maybe a day or two ago, and I forget that the panelists have changed...

It's ok, just try to follow it a little more often.

The timing never really bothered me, so I could care less how often it was updated... I always know when I will or, more often, won't be on this list...

Timing is very important. Even though you personally don't care how often or when it is updated, having accurate voting intervals will better serve those who pick it up and do well within each voting period. If the panelists put things off and the period extends more than it should, sometimes peoples' accomplishments/defeats won't have as much of a lasting "impact" on peoples' minds, which I personally see as unfair to said players.

Frankly, I don't care if I'm ever on this list as long as I feel its not worth being recognized here... Besides, I only remember ever seeing you post any kinda results here...

I used to update the panelists with my results after every tournament excluding last month. It makes their lives easier.

 

[lou4222]

This process was incredibly transparent. Everyone, but. Nope/and I posted their lists in this thread so everyone could see it. Ill post mine when I get home later

The point of that was to see who placed who where. If you think they are wrong, say something. If someone thinks beegs is better than fizzle or myself put your reasoning behind it.

Also remember these are opinions. I kinda look at it like the coaches poll in college football. We voted on who we thought deserved it, jut like college coaches, or AP writers. Overswarms rankings are like the bcs, with a computer formula. Both are grear but both certainly have flaws as well. This analogy is pretty solid, unless you dont like college football than I apologize.

Also these rankings changed from a month to month who's hot list to a who we thought the best fifteen players were. Not to pick on him, but this hurt suyon. Suyon definitely had an amazing two months. He has improved drastically and had some really quality wins, but four months ago he was having a real tough time getting out of polls/ winning bracket matches. More consistency for a long period of time and maybe he will be on here. These rankins need to be more than just two months of evaluated data.

My rankings

1) Blue Rogue
2) AZ
3) OS
4)Infern
5)Kel
6)Y.b.M.
7)Nope
8)Capem
9)Fonz
10)KB

HM:
Scribbz
Fizzle
Smash
Quivo
Lou

Nopes list(he called me because he was having computer trouble)

1)Blue Rogue
2) AZ
3)OS
4) Infern
5)Kel
6) Y.b.M.
7)Nope
8)Capem
9)Fonz
10)KB

HM:

Champ
Lou
Smash
Fizzle
DJ Scribz

 

[fonzi21]

There is a lot of ****ty matchups and yes it does make a difference in matches, but unfortunately if you chose that character you have to live with their Mountain Climbing Abilities (If you havent read David Sirlin's Playing to Win you won't get it.)

 

[Eddie G]

There is a lot of ****ty matchups and yes it does make a difference in matches, but unfortunately if you chose that character you have to live with their Mountain Climbing Abilities (If you havent read David Sirlin's Playing to Win you won't get it.)

Very true.

And Tyr is correct, many things can influence the results that are considered for the PR (such as the Peach > Wario thing, keep picking him Blue Rogue =P). Sometimes it may very well be the player's character of choice that holds them at a specific point (not always the case, but possible). For instance a character like MK doesn't require the player to have strict consistency all around in order to do well for themselves (just make good reads and know how to exploit stages/matchups with him), as opposed to a character like Peach who not only requires the player to make good reads, but they must also work hard to remain consistent with her in terms of tech skill. And even if the Peach plays perfectly, she still has obstacles that are incredibly tough or even impossible to climb (such as facing a player of the former, albeit borderline broken character who knows the matchup). To sum it all up, being a Peach player (or any character with similar potential) is not easy, and may possibly explain why my results are as streaky as they are. It may not even be me as a player who is streaky which is what I find hilarious, because I know I'm not.

 

[fromundaman]

^^

TL:DR version: **** MK.

 

[links24]

i know this is late as **** but just sayin.......GOOD **** BLUEEEE!!!!!!.........that is all XD............

 

[fonzi21]

I'm sorry King Beef but Metaknight takes a lot of skill to play. Metaknight takes a **** ton of tech skill that was a very poor statement. Even compared to any other character MK requires tech skill at a high level to play him efficiently. He has a lot more options, but that does not mean he is "Easy" to play.

 

[Eddie G]

...You're kidding, right?

Maybe it's my Melee spacie player bias backing my statement, but still...no he doesn't. The closest thing to tech skill I see associated with Metaknight is knowing where and how to autocancel his shuttle loop. The rest is spacing, gimping, and things that involve general movement/timing, but nothing above and beyond enough to consider him "necessary of having tech skill".

And please don't misunderstand my post. By all means he is no "easy" character to master (no character truly is, but none of us are anywhere near the top level of play where claims can really be made...keep that in mind), but to pick up and play him at a competent (dependent on one's own perception of the term) level...then lol at considering that "tough to do".

Again, I'm a Melee spacie player, so my opinion of easy/difficult may differ from yours.

 

[fonzi21]

...You're kidding, right?

Maybe it's my Melee spacie player bias backing my statement, but still...no he doesn't. The closest thing to tech skill I see associated with Metaknight is knowing where and how to autocancel his shuttle loop. The rest is spacing, gimping, and things that involve general movement/timing, but nothing above and beyond enough to consider him "necessary of having tech skill".

And please don't misunderstand my post. By all means he is no "easy" character to master (no character truly is, but none of us are anywhere near the top level of play where claims can really be made...keep that in mind), but to pick up and play him at a competent (dependent on one's own perception of the term) level...then lol at considering that "tough to do".

Again, I'm a Melee spacie player, so my opinion of easy/difficult may differ from yours.

Lol I love playing people who think they can just pick up MK and play him at a competent level. Your in for a real suprise if you think anyone can pick him up and win matches. Unless you have played MK in tournament (And I have) don't say you can just pick him up and be competent player because you absolutely cannot.

 

[fonzi21]

I am also no longer interested in discussing this with you, because your opinion is going to be bias regardless of what you think because you want Metaknight Banned. Sorry.

 

[Eddie G]

I was never interested in discussing this in the first place. I personally don't give a **** anymore whether or not he's banned, but me thinking he is easy to pick up/use has nothing to do with my opinion on the ban situation. He just...is.

You just see me as biased because I don't agree with your perception of what is difficult to do, which is cool...I guess. Also, just saying, what you just said above could also apply to your stance, so saying that to who you think is the opposition is rather pointless. No sense in discussing anything if I'm going to get responses like *^ that* every time.

 

[fonzi21]

You just see me as biased because I don't agree with your perception of what is difficult to do, which is cool...I guess. Also, just saying, what you just said above could also apply to your stance, so saying that to who you think is the opposition is rather pointless. No sense in discussing anything if I'm going to get responses like *^ that* every time.

Your correct my statement can be applied to me, but I have never posted a stance or ever really voiced an opinion of wanting him banned or not wanting him banned, which means I am a neutral party making my posts less biased.

I also see you as bias because you have strongly voiced your opinion of wanting MK banned not because of my perception or you disagreeing with me. And your correct there is nothing to discuss, you simply think MK can be picked up and do well at tournaments with. Your choice. I personally love fighting people like that because they are clueless on the matchup. Perfect example is BMX trying to play MK and Falco against me at VG bootcamp after I defeated him at pound. The results were worse. BMX is a very good player but he had no clue on the matchup and his MK got stomped. Nothing against him but MK cannot simply be picked up and win with from my experience. Argent has also tried to play MK against my Lucario a few times when he loses the ditto. And I have tried Snake against Argent. I lost with snake he lost with MK lol. So it still came down to the ditto.

I am also going to use an Overswarm statement here, if you think he is so easy then why haven't you used him in tournaments to win against other MK's or something of the sort. (besides the usual I'm true to my character statement everyone makes to avoid this question) (Which isn't directed at you its just what everyone says in general).

 

[Eddie G]

*sigh*...Not really in a good mood right now due to some **** in real life but I'll remain civil.

Your correct my statement can be applied to me, but I have never posted a stance or ever really voiced an opinion of wanting him banned or not wanting him banned, which means I am a neutral party making my posts less biased.

That's a weak default. I'm simply going by what your posts insinuate as far as your stance goes. Neutral doesn't always = neutral; it could just be what I said...a method of default.

I also see you as bias because you have strongly voiced your opinion of wanting MK banned not because of my perception or you disagreeing with me.

Perhaps, but this whole debacle started from you disagreeing with my opinion on the difficulty of using MK, so where does my supposed stance (which you're not sure is up to date) on the MK ban come into play? I simply believe that MK's learning curve is embarrassingly simple, and working on him to get to a competent level is also embarrassingly simple compared to the learning curve of most other characters (excluding Olimar and a small batch of others). Simply put, you're straying down the wrong route of "excusing" me from the argument.

And your correct there is nothing to discuss, you simply think MK can be picked up and do well at tournaments with. Your choice.

You're right, I do. I just find it funny how a clear example of that is right in front of our faces (Overswarm/Kel) you you still refuse to believe that he alleviates any sort of difficulty for a player. Don't get me wrong...Overswarm and Kel are both smart and skilled players and I won't ignore due credit for that (such as OS taking advantage of peoples' lack of MU knowledge for Fox at Delta and performing well with him which was brilliant), but if you want to get on the topic of what Overswarm has said himself: He clearly has stated on multiple occasions that he does not even practice with MK for tournaments or to just keep "in shape" with the character because he doesn't even need to, as opposed to how he had to regularly practice with his ROB when he mained him[/i]. If that doesn't say anything to you, then I don't know what will.

I personally love fighting people like that because they are clueless on the matchup. Perfect example is BMX trying to play MK and Falco against me at VG bootcamp after I defeated him at pound. The results were worse. BMX is a very good player but he had no clue on the matchup and his MK got stomped. Nothing against him but MK cannot simply be picked up and win with from my experience. Argent has also tried to play MK against my Lucario a few times when he loses the ditto. And I have tried Snake against Argent. I lost with snake he lost with MK lol. So it still came down to the ditto.

Good for them. I believe Lucario is a stupid character for entirely different reasons (the concept of beating the **** out of him only to put yourself in more danger is asinine). But with that in mind, I'd never take on a Lucario who knows the MK matchup for that exact reason, and choose to stick with what I know which is Peach vs Lucario. Let's just try to keep the focus on what my statement initially applied to (performing well in tournaments in general with him) shall we?

I am also going to use an Overswarm statement here, if you think he is so easy then why haven't you used him in tournaments to win against other MK's or something of the sort. (besides the usual I'm true to my character statement everyone makes to avoid this question) (Which isn't directed at you its just what everyone says in general).

Simple, I'm already too far behind on having experience with the ditto, so I stand a better chance (not on paper, but realistically speaking) with trying to climb the mountainous matchup with Peach. That's all there is to it.

 

[fonzi21]

Here is what I got out of your responses....(Also the first sentence told me you are getting very emotional about these posts when there is no need to in such a simple discussion, and yes I know I said I wasn't going to discuss it but I changed my mind, sorry lol)

1. Neutral doesn't mean Neutral (What does it mean then? And if your going to reply it could mean default Please Elaborate.)

2. MK is very easy to learn and become good with, and anyone who uses MK in tournaments doesn't have to spend as much time on the game as everyone else. And you went from a strong MK ban standpoint to "I am ok with him in the game, but I think he is too easy to play."

3. (this is what I got from King beef's post, this is NOT my opinion) Kel/Overswarm aren't that good.....there ok, but if they didn't play Metaknight they wouldn't win tournaments. And Overswarm doesn't have to practice MK (I don't trust anything Overswarm says about MK because he wants him banned on a ridiculous level so it's hard to trust him there.)

4. My example was worthless to you because it backed up my evidence of people not being able to easily pick up MK and win matches. And you also threw in a peach Vs. Lucario statement which I didn't refer to and you also threw in a Lucario is stupid statement which was irrelevant because It wouldn't matter what character people were playing their new MK against they would most likely lose if both players are comparable in skill.

5. So you don't think it is easy to be good enough with MK to beat other MK's or players, but instead easier to stick with the character you spent all your time practicing. And if you did try to pick up MK do you think you could compete with others in the ditto within a decent time frame if so how long would it take? Also if it is so easy then all you should have to do is out think your opponent in the ditto, so your implying that you would not be able to do that within a certain time frame?

Am I correct on how you were implying your responses? If not please Elaborate.

 

[Notra]

I was never interested in discussing this in the first place. I personally don't give a **** anymore whether or not he's banned, but me thinking he is easy to pick up/use has nothing to do with my opinion on the ban situation. He just...is.

You just see me as biased because I don't agree with your perception of what is difficult to do, which is cool...I guess. Also, just saying, what you just said above could also apply to your stance, so saying that to who you think is the opposition is rather pointless. No sense in discussing anything if I'm going to get responses like *^ that* every time.

Just FYI, by picking up MK, u are automatically ensuring that 99% of brawlers know your MU.

Also playing falco( a ridiculously technical char) metaknights tech aren't too far behind, its just what u can do w/ them that differs. ( i have a very difficult time winning w/ meta. Just now am i realizing his potential from alot of tech training and using it in matches)

Meta only beats the cast at perfect levels of play, and that is very difficult. ( Diddy and Falco beat MK if not at prefect lvls of play) Until someone can play alot better than M2K...lets not even talk of banning MK.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

@KB: If Peach gives you mk trouble, pick up basically any other character and you'll have a better time against mk. Within 3 months, you can have a tourney-ready character. But remember, no johns. Seriously though, if we don't play in brackets next tourney we need to finally MM.

@Fonz: You're "mk-preparation/skill=loss" argument reminds me of pools at Delta Ep. I totally agree. You're also underestimating Kel and OS in my opinion. You should see if they'll do some no-mk MMs (despite the disadvantage). You might be surprised.

BY THE WAY, SOMEONE SHOULD START A NEW THREAD FOR THIS OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION.

 

[fromundaman]

Completely off-topic, but has anyone ever noticed that when someone says they don't want to discuss something, it is usually an introductary statement to the equivalent of a thesis paper on the subject?

 

[Eddie G]

It's fine, I'll leave it alone and agree to disagree. I don't feel like elaborating on anything right now.

 

[fonzi21]

@Fonz: You're "mk-preparation/skill=loss" argument reminds me of pools at Delta Ep. I totally agree. You're also underestimating Kel and OS in my opinion. You should see if they'll do some no-mk MMs (despite the disadvantage). You might be surprised.

Haha Fizzle I wasn't saying that was my opinion of Kel/Overswarm. That was King beefs outlook on Kel/Overswarm. I think they are both very good players, and they win because of their ability to adapt, react, and think quickly and knowledge of the game. Overswarm proved he could play other characters because of his Fox placing. I am sure Kel could do the same.

And Ya at Delta lol I should have stuck with Lucario, but I wanted to try MK so I can get him tournament ready for those times I run into those bad matchups and I get my *** beat beyond oblivion LOL.

Also another point. M2K use to win with D3 before he played Metaknight......which shows it is more then just the character they play.

 

[Eddie G]

How nice of you to edit your post with your opinion on OS/Kel "not being that good" before (or after) making your reply to Fizzle and making me look like the one who underestimated them when I clearly gave credit while making my claim... :/

Don't get me wrong...Overswarm and Kel are both smart and skilled players and I won't ignore due credit for that (such as OS taking advantage of peoples' lack of MU knowledge for Fox at Delta and performing well with him which was brilliant)

The edit button is too good. That's one reason why I don't feel like having a discussion with you on this stuff. Too much selective reading/selective comprehension going on.

Here is what I got out of your responses...

Still much <3, no hard feelings.

 

[fonzi21]

You're right, I do. I just find it funny how a clear example of that is right in front of our faces (Overswarm/Kel) yet you still refuse to believe that he alleviates any sort of difficulty for a player. Don't get me wrong...Overswarm and Kel are both smart and skilled players and I won't ignore due credit for that (such as OS taking advantage of peoples' lack of MU knowledge for Fox at Delta and performing well with him which was brilliant), but if you want to get on the topic of what Overswarm has said himself: He clearly has stated on multiple occasions that he does not even practice with MK for tournaments or to just keep "in shape" with the character because he doesn't even need to, as opposed to how he had to regularly practice with his ROB when he mained him[/i]. If that doesn't say anything to you, then I don't know what will.

The part in bold Italics is what got me, what does that part mean exactly then? because I edited it saying it was not my opinion after Fizzle posted because it absolutely was not my opinion and I didn't want anymore confusion. I said at the top of my post it was what I got from your responses and the part in this response in Bold Italics to me means Kel and Overswarm don't have to try and aren't that good, but because they play MK they win. What were you meaning by that statement to clear up confusion then? Because saying Don't get me wrong there good is simply contradicting your previous statement. I didn't misread anything I read it all, but I still could not ignore the statement I highlighted above.

You might have worded it wrong, or you may have meant something else, but please explain so no one is confused.

I would never edit something to make someone look worse or like an idiot. I merely edit to clear up confusion on my statements.

 

[Eddie G]

I see. What I meant is exactly what's at the end of that bolded statement, that he alleviates difficulty for a player (by a large degree or by not so much, which depends on the skill of the player and the level of competition they face, but by no means do I think MK means a guaranteed win in a given set). I can see why you'd confuse that with "OS/Kel aren't that good", which I kind of foresaw would happen and added their due credit into my post. So yeah, that was more towards MK himself, and not towards their skill as players.

Which brings me to: So you disagree with players being able to do well/win soon after picking up MK. However, can you say that he does not alleviate difficulty for a player? Is that also what you believe or not?

 

[fonzi21]

I see. What I meant is exactly what's at the end of that bolded statement, that he alleviates difficulty for a player (by a large degree or by not so much, which depends on the skill of the player and the level of competition they face, but by no means do I think MK means a guaranteed win in a given set). I can see why you'd confuse that with "OS/Kel aren't that good", which I kind of foresaw would happen and added their due credit into my post. So yeah, that was more towards MK himself, and not towards their skill as players.

Which brings me to: So you disagree with players being able to do well/win soon after picking up MK. However, can you say that he does not alleviate difficulty for a player? Is that also what you believe or not?

My statement is this.

It is harder to be successful with Metaknight then you think.

A. Everyone knows the matchup, it is more then just outsmarting your opponent, and he requires a very solid level of tech skill. He may seem easier to play but he is truly not. I have used him in tournament and I have been practicing my MK for almost as long as my Lucario.

B. You still must learn all the matchups just like you would for another character.

C. Metaknight seems easier to win with because he simply is a better character in the game, but it still does not remove the fact you NEED to learn matchups and have good tech skill and mind games and setups with the character.

D. At lower levels of play the tornado or D-smash can defeat worse players, GOOD players KNOW how to avoid and punish all of those moves. If you don't know the matchup as Metaknight you are not going to be able to just pick him up in half the time and win at higher levels.

E. The other thing you must take into consideration is some people are just NATURALLY good at things. Some people can just pick something up TONS quicker then people and some have to work extremely hard for it.

F. Also Metaknight does seem faster, but this just means you need to react faster and have better tech skill to play them at these faster speeds. So to take them to the higher level of competitive play you have to put the time into the character.

G. Metaknight is a difficult character to fight against, and to fight with. Do not underestimate how difficult it is to play Metaknight.

Summary: To do well at lower levels of play I.E. Locals and such (Some locals lol because Ohio has some seriously competitive locals) Metaknight is an option. Your best? not in my opinion. To do well at high level play (I.E. circuits and regional events or better) you better spend a **** ton of time on your Metaknight.

 

[Eddie G]

Lol I guess we'll see. I don't expect to stray away from my main any time soon though, or maybe at all.