The Official Ohio Brawl Power Rankings (11/25/12: NEW RANKINGS UPDATED!)

[Eddie G]

I am a man who is willing to admit when he's made a mistake or an error in judgement, and based on those credentials alone it is clear that MX should be placed above both Sneakytako and I, or at least higher than myself. I'll admit that certain life circumstances prevented me from researching as thoroughly as I usually do this time around, and as a result has contributed to this little hiccup here. This will be a one time thing only (because research will not be lacking again), but I don't mind mending the list to better reflect the previous period. All in favor of this please state your claim, panelists and non-panelists alike. We're a community after all.

 

[clowsui]

i'm in favor of MX -> Carls -> KB

 

[Zinoto]

Scarf >> All

 

[clowsui]

nvm. carls been doin work

 

[MX778]

Before I say anything, I'd like to see what Tako's Wins are.

 

[Roller]

Someone should post the wins and losses for MX, Carls, Sneaky, and KB in a compilation post.

This includes wins from the inbetween period that is apparently for all intents and purposes actually a part of this period.

As of right now, I'd be inclined to believe MX>Carls/Sneaky/KB (would need to see full records)




Also. OH people. You should seriously consider changing up your panel. A necessary responsibility of being a panel member should be keeping privy to people's results throughout the season and having a rough PR list in mind being updated after each tourney.

After the last tourney Zinoto and I were at when we stopped at a Steak and Shake on the way home, we realized we both kept updated lists of each PR candidate's records in a note on our phones. I know Ori keeps a similar list.

And JTsm (not even a panel member) has now streamlined the whole thing and has a list of each player's records organized by both player name and tournament, which he has PM'd to each panel member.

The first post in our PR backroom discussion includes a similar list, and often short descriptions of each players' progression throughout the season.

Our discussions take 2-3 days. (and 90% of that time is spent on the order of ~2 players)

Yours just took over a month... AFTER a season extension of a couple weeks.

And despite this seemingly excessive amount of time, they are still not aware of half the PR players' credentials.

This panel clearly does not consider this duty to be enough of a priority to keep up with their obligations. I get that people have life **** to deal with, but if you keep organized with your responsibility throughout the season, it takes no time at all to do this.

If the PR panel members feel they are consistently inundated with other life issues, then that is fine. It's the case for a lot of people, and smash should not take away too much from other important aspects of life. But those people should then step down from the panel, because they are not able to meet the time requirements to be a contributing member.

 

[Carls493]

Wow...

That's all I can say right now, really.

 

[sneakytako]

Meh, I still stand behind my vote.

 

[clowsui]

i put myself in the role of being responsible for gathering those results in that manner and i failed to show up w them.

simple as that.

if people want me to step down, that's fine. but until i receive requests to do so, i'll just improve my record gathering for next season and do it after every tournament rather than procrastinating.

 

[TheKiest]

Roller rolling.... rofl.

 

[Roller]

Every panel member should be keeping track of their state's results...

I think the bigger problem here is that nobody on the panel even seems to have asked for the results... Like. What were you guys even using for criteria??? Because clearly an objective scouring of players' tournament credentials wasn't even a part of the process.

If it was just whatever results the panel members happened to remember, as I suspect it was, then I'm not at all surprised panel members were the ones who came out ahead in the closer (disputable) placings.

Pull yourselves together, OH.

o. and clearly this pools-only tournament format is bs and leads to scenarios where players don't have an opportunity to show improvement. Don't use it anymore, imo.

 

[Zinoto]

MX has better wins than you too Sneaky. How can you justifiably put yourself and KB above him? Carls probably does too. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Carls is his win over SK and his superior performance during the summer. What have you done to match that?

I think the bigger problem here is that nobody on the panel even seems to have asked for the results... Like. What were you guys even using for criteria??? Because clearly an objective scouring of players' tournament credentials wasn't even a part of the process.

If it was just whatever results the panel members happened to remember, as I suspect it was, then I'm not at all surprised panel members were the ones who came out ahead in the closer (disputable) placings.

o. and clearly this pools-only tournament format is bs and leads to scenarios where players don't have an opportunity to show improvement. Don't use it anymore, imo.

This.

I'm a little upset at the outcome of how all the tourney results were used. Carls ***** this summer. Having the Ranbats not count towards the PR is kinda ****ty. He, along with 40+ other unique players committed a lot of time into attending those. Each one had ranked OH players. There was $200+ at stake. What reasoning is there to not count them? The point wagering matches, sure don't count those, but you all just wiped his entire slate of improvement clean.

MX, is in the same boat. His wins are better than everyone from Sneaky on down, yet he's at the bottom of that list? Really? How can you justifiably put yourself above MX, Sneaky? His win over Kel, Count, Hadiesblade, Mister Eric (twice), and Krystedez. There's probably more than that. What wins do you have? Even more defending his stance, both Carls and MX made it out of pools at Retribution. Sneaky did not and KB didn't even attend. They have proved many times over they should be, at least, above those two.

This all starts because there was no set guideline on what counts for the PR and what doesn't. Where is the post stating that the Ranbats wouldn't count for the PR (If it was mentioned and agreed upon by the OH community then it's w.e)? What matches should count a lot and a little? Krystedez beat Player-1 (who has a ton of Reflex practice), he's definitely a good player and a good win. Why would that be counted no more than a friendly? If you lose you lose, anything else sounds like bull****. You're giving passes to players, if they accept the loss (for whatever reason) it's still a loss. If you all stated these from the beginning, there wouldn't be any confusion..

Carls/MX should be 5th and 6th, while Tako/KB should be 7th and 8th (no particular ordering between the two sets).

 

[Juushichi]

Zinoto and Roller with a doubles team of ****. Jesus christ.

Honestly, I think KY (Hi Kassy!) is probably also using similar means to Michigan and Florida by now so that particular format is great. As an aside, the only thing I disagree with on Roller's end is the all-pools format but that's not something to really talk about now (I mean, I'll see those guys this weekend ANYWAY). Again, I guess I'll volunteer myself for a panelist spot and could probably handle some more of the objective stuff, even if it's only making sure bracket results are kosher and maining a W-L ratio of the players vs whoever they meet in tournament.

Ball's in your court, atheists panelists.

[EDIT:] 3636 posts, suh-weeet.

[EDIT2:] AZ owns Smashboards. Go figure.

 

[KassandraNova]

Juu caught me lurking. ;_;

 

[SoulPech]

Zinoto and Roller with a doubles team of ****. Jesus christ.

Honestly, I think KY (Hi Kassy!) is probably also using similar means to Michigan and Florida by now so that particular format is great. As an aside, the only thing I disagree with on Roller's end is the all-pools format but that's not something to really talk about now (I mean, I'll see those guys this weekend ANYWAY). Again, I guess I'll volunteer myself for a panelist spot and could probably handle some more of the objective stuff, even if it's only making sure bracket results are kosher and maining a W-L ratio of the players vs whoever they meet in tournament.

Ball's in your court, atheists panelists.

[EDIT:] 3636 posts, suh-weeet.

[EDIT2:] AZ owns Smashboards. Go figure.

Minus the post count and link thing, I was gonna say something very similar. I was gonna nominate myself on the panel as well for data and results as well. Juu is also an excellent candidate because him and I are pretty organized in gather data and saving it. In fact, I was going to start doing that starting PS5 where I was going to keep track of Ohio's records against who, placing, money, etc.

Spreadsheets can be fun sometimes.

 

[Beegs]

Glad to see the determination in this room to make the Ohio PR better.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I am volunteering for the OH PR Panel:

I will not be keeping track of wins and losses, however this is what I can contribute to the panel that you do not currently have:

And according to Eddie you can never have enough of these.....

I will expect my entry into the group after PS5. Thanks.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I have never once kept track of season wins/losses.

I just order ppl based off how good they are.

 

[Carls493]

I am volunteering for the OH PR Panel:

I will not be keeping track of wins and losses, however this is what I can contribute to the panel that you do not currently have:

looooooool

 

[MegaRobMan]

I think the uproar over this PR is needed, but you are missing the real problem.

Luminoth64 should be at least #5

 

[TheKiest]

"Responsibility as a Panelist", really? I mean REALLY?

The sad truth is Ohio Smash is slowly dying but for good reasons: we're getting older as a scene. The fact that we even have the panelists we have now is kinda amazing. If/when this wave leaves the Panelists, we won't have anymore Ohio players that can be "qualified" panelists anyways. Maybe there will be a revival with Smash 4, but knowing each of these members personally I'm OK that they are choosing life outside of "Smash Politics" over well.... "Smash Politics".

Is this list really that terrible? I know I haven't been in the scene much these days but... when I was doing rankings, the hardest part was determining which out ranked what.. current results or skill. If its skill, then I stand by this list (noting that Carls will jump 4 spots if he keeps this up). If its current results, I'd do the switch mentioned already... which doesn't affect the top 4. I don't see how this is considered "terrible". Bad maybe, but not terrible enough that "OH LORD, Ohio needs all new panelists!"

If Shugo stopped playing for a YEAR he'd still be the best player in Ohio (maybe Kel might surpass barely). Lets say he came back for one national and got his usual current places, where should he be in the PR? (Serious question to all panelists from all states reading this).

EDIT: I'd rather have our vets concentrate on getting more tournes to happen in Ohio than ranking the less than 12 players that still compete.


@Roller: I think all pools to determine rankings can only work if there isn't "rounds" as in just one big death pool. The point of all Pools via Overswarm Style is to get people to do what they come to tournes for... to play Smash with people they can't play Smash with otherwise in a unique environment. Competition is definitely part of it, but for a majority of players in the Midwest it isn't as important.

 

[Kel]

Yeah, Ohio is a dying region for Smash. Beyond Shugo, our PR doesn't matter because we all suck any way. We cannot even make a 10-man PR any more.

BTW, you guys may be over rating MX beating me in pools at rage. There are many factors to take into account from his win over me. This is not to say that the win is not legit, but this is also to say that TAKO has taken a set from me as well IN BRACKET. Me switching characters will have the effect that I drop sets now and then from characters when I do not know the MU that well. To focus on MX taking a set off me in pools (not as weighted as highly as bracket) would also be just as fair to focus on Tako taking a set off me in a bracket. Also, Tako has taken a set off Zinoto and was the only person in the region to beat Delux at Retribution. Those are all big wins.

This is one reason why I don't take straight wins and losses into account over a 2-5 month season to determine who is the best. You can determine pretty accurately who is better than someone else without taking Inui logic into effect. This is why I mentioned that it doesn't matter if Shugo didn't go to any tournaments this season, we could drop him from the PR for being inactive, but it would not change the fact that he is the best in the state and should be ranked as such.

 

[Eddie G]

These two laid it down.

Yes, we made a blunder this time in terms of data gathering and our overall precision/reasoning on determining the list. One mistake, however, is not enough to just "blarrrgghh replace the panel" for the reasons Kiest mentioned. Go ahead and point out anyone else in the state who is either qualified or willing to be a panelist. I already tried asking when forming the panel, and some of the naysayers now are also those who said "meh...nah" when it was time to step up and join in. Yes, real life came first this time (let's be real - real life will always come first...always), but these are also mistakes that people must learn from. If everyone were simply ousted from whatever they're assigned to for a mistake, we'd never get anywhere. Michigan, I appreciate the input from you guys, but let's not jump the gun on solutions here...

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

lmaooooooooooo

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

i still support ranking people over skill instead of placements, but idk if i would keep this ranking the same by doing so. There's never a reason to completely ignore placements. Like carls went hard as ****.

But I also understand how rough it is to be a panelist. Because everyone really does consider themselves a panelist if they disagree with even 1 point in your list, **** will always get blown out of proportion.

And about my earlier comment about KB, I didn't mean it in a way that u were out to intentional boost your ranking, that's not the guy of guy you are. But there's def a subconscious motivation there, that leads to "oversights" that benefit you.

 

[Zinoto]

Yeah, Ohio is a dying region for Smash. Beyond Shugo, our PR doesn't matter because we all suck any way. We cannot even make a 10-man PR any more.

You are really good too. I've only played your (which goes last hit with me each time), I can only imagine how good your was.

And Tako beat me at Vengeance, which hopefully is outside of this ranking period.

 

[Juushichi]

For the record, I don't think anyone is/was saying BLARGGGGG REPLACE PANEL 2013, just have an addition because seeing this has certain people interested in order to help the panel improve and such.

- **** that doesn't matter: Shugo's already pretty much not been playing seriously for a full year and is still better at this game which plays Mario vs Kirby in wacky platformed backdrops than everyone, go figure.

- **** that kinda matters: Yeah, it'd be nice to have the vets host more tournaments. Question is how and if people even want to find new ways to host/travel/do SMASH POLITICS in ways to get more people interested again, SoulPech's expressed interest in hosting one sometime soon-ish, there's one in Columbus early next year ala Keist... (who knows what Chi/NEOH is doing... literally) but, I mean the problem was usually not HAVING tournaments, t'was increasing player pool.

But yes, PR doesn't matter. Let's axe it since we're all bad... except Shugo. While we're at it, let's all move to PSAS as well. Kratos 4 president.

 

[Roller]

Wait. Are you people seriously using "this scene is dying" as an excuse for not taking recent matches into account? How does that even make sense?

And going off playerskill would be fine, except I have no idea why any of you thought KB or Tako were definitively better skillwise than MX or Carls currently are. And the skill argument WOULD need to be definitive, in order to overshadow the obvious better results of the latter 2.

 

[sneakytako]

For the record, I don't think anyone is/was saying BLARGGGGG REPLACE PANEL 2013, just have an addition because seeing this has certain people interested in order to help the panel improve and such.

In my mind any potential candidates have already failed at this point. I was waiting for someone to compile an apt comparison to argue that one player should be above another, but I have yet to see a non-PR member take the time to review the records of anyone besides themselves, which seems like the point that we PR members are being accused of in the first place.

We have the data to show who belonged where, I just don't feel like compiling it in a format that fits this situation. IMO no one has brought up any points that should change the ranking.

To shed some light on our decision making, OoR/OoS wins really was the deciding factor on where I was placed, and I voted KB to be behind me because there was no reason for MX/Carls to be ahead of him. They all share very simliar wins, KB is ahead because he beat BR. MX was close but he has a losing record to Carls. Carls best wins are myself and SK, both players that KB has beaten.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

NEOH has a bajillion and a half plans
We're still alive up here : P
18 or 19 person smashfest last week...and that was with some people bailing x3

Beegs, Sole, and I have all expressed some interest in getting events started

Btw my pal Avion from OSU's game club or whatever the heck it is March 31st iirc. Some Fightan Gaem tournament. Still in early phases I guess.

 

[Roller]

Let me paraphrase what Lokii just said:

The panel (or at least a portion of it) does not even know the current state of OH's scene.



real.

 

[Ori_bro]

Lokii for Panelist

#LittleMissLokii2013

 

[Carls493]

Let me paraphrase what Lokii just said:

The panel (or at least a portion of it) does not even know the current state of OH's scene.



real.

Wow... again.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Lokii for Panelist

#LittleMissLokii2013

I see you creepin'.

 

[Zinoto]

In my mind any potential candidates have already failed at this point. I was waiting for someone to compile an apt comparison to argue that one player should be above another, but I have yet to see a non-PR member take the time to review the records of anyone besides themselves, which seems like the point that we PR members are being accused of in the first place.

We have the data to show who belonged where, I just don't feel like compiling it in a format that fits this situation. IMO no one has brought up any points that should change the ranking.

To shed some light on our decision making, OoR/OoS wins really was the deciding factor on where I was placed, and I voted KB to be behind me because there was no reason for MX/Carls to be ahead of him. They all share very simliar wins, KB is ahead because he beat BR. MX was close but he has a losing record to Carls. Carls best wins are myself and SK, both players that KB has beaten.

What?

How the tournaments were counted isn't even clear, but I did make a post about why MX (at the least) should be above both of you and why the ranbats not counting was a bad decision. In any case, I did it in 40 mins:

Since all the Ranbats weren't counted (effectively killing all of Carls well-earned results and a number of MX's as well):

Season Period: 6/25/12 - 11/25/12

MX:

OS Monthly (No solid way to determine who beat who):

Wins: Krystedez, Kel, MX, Tako, Carls, Xisin
Losses: Krystedez, Kel

Rage:

Wins: Beat Everyone in his pool (Don't know what that consist of), Bulletsquall
Losses: Carls, Blue Rogue

Return of the Mack:

Wins: Squid, Sorasin, Sneakytako, Hadesblade, Count
Losses: Count (x2)

Retribution:

Wins: Beat everyone in his pool (except Player-1).
Losses: Croi, Zeton


Carls

OS Monthly (No solid way to determine who beat who):

Unclear, but he ended up placing 5th

Rage:

Wins: Beat Everyone in his pool except Sparta Kick I believe, Tech Chase, MX, Thugz
Losses: AlphaZealot, Zinoto

SPAU2:

Wins: Gifts, Zyth, Pzo, Sparta Kick
Losses: Ally, Lain

Retribution:

Wins: No idea of his pool, but he got 3rd seed.
Losses: DLA, Judo

Rolling with the Punches 2:

No results thread, but he beat KB in a $10 MM.


Sneakytako

OS Monthly (No solid way to determine who beat who):

Unclear, but he ended up placing 4th

Rage:

Wins: Beat Everyone in his pool except Ally I believe, Bulletsquall
Losses: Blue Rogue, King Beef

S2D:

Wins: Bubblegum, James, Megarobman
Losses: Ralph Cecil, Masquerain

Retribution:

Wins: Delux (pools)
Losses: Everyone else in his pool

Return of the Mack:

Wins: Sovereign, Braxton
Losses: MX, Hadesblade

Even without the Ranbats, you fall below Carls and MX. Why reasoning can be said to justifiably put you above Carls and MX?

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Naww, NEOH was just dormant for so long
And then suddenly we were like "OH WAIT WE PLAY SMASH"

It happens
NEOH is a region filled with students or people with jobs.

But when it comes to smashfests.....


.....srs bsns.

But what we REALLY want to say is...Ohio isn't dying without a fight :3

 

[Ori_bro]

I see you creepin'.

 

[SoulPech]

The only reason why I didn't mention it was because Zinoto pretty much did the work for me.

I also want to add onto what Zinoto has said.

For MX:
OS Monthly, he placed 3rd losing to krystadez and Kel

RAGE he placed 17th,

Return of the Mack he placed 2nd and reset bracket with Count

At Retribution he placed 33rd.

For Carls:
He placed 5th, only defeating Xisin

RAGE He placed 9th

SPAU2 He placed 7th

Retribution he placed 33rd

Rolling with the Punches he placed 4th, losing to Blue Rogue and Fizzle

For SneakyTako:

OS Monthly he placed 4th, only beating Carls and Xisin

RAGE He placed 17th

Something 2 Do (08/11/12) he placed 5th

Retribution He didn't make it out of pools

Return of the Mack he placed 5th.

Everything else Zinoto has said is accurate.

I mean, you can argue Carls not being above you, but not MX. Every tourney you both have been he has tied or surpassed you in placing...even defeated ya a few times Sneaky. Unless there are some tournaments I'm missing.

 

[Beegs]

Naww, NEOH was just dormant for so long
And then suddenly we were like "OH WAIT WE PLAY SMASH"

It happens
NEOH is a region filled with students or people with jobs.

But when it comes to smashfests.....


.....srs bsns.

But what we REALLY want to say is...Ohio isn't dying without a fight :3

I honestly think it's coming back. The interest for this game seems to be pretty high still.

 

[M@v]

You should all just play melee with Pittsburgh. That would solve this.