jw511
Smash Cadet
One last question and then I'll stop annoying everyone. Would recording a match against a CPU be of any use at all? (In case I can't find anyone to play)
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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
- Status
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No. They have unhuman like reflexes and just a very different style of play that is easy to exploit.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
2:16
Just saying =X
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Im sorry, ijust saw the match from jw511, he really needs to go back to the basics, i know it was stated but good lord.
I was screaming with my mouth closed. (Fsmash and counter is his play style...)
I was screaming with my mouth closed. (Fsmash and counter is his play style...)
Oh man, i saw that. Jeez, he leaves himself wide open after an attack. He also does not Fair combos. He does not grab, Na, spike, not anything. Might need to go train some more.
Ayen
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
- Messages
- 115
:10, if you did the down b version you would have shield poked
:21, punishes your dtilt, you had him up against a corner but you allowed him enough room that he could hit you
:34, he rolls behind you but you don't punish with DB
:36, you dash right back in and get hit by his ftilt, remember you outrange everything he has
:48, you aren't applying any pressure and he punishes the fast falled fair
1:09, no up b out of shield
1:26, you used dtilt at point blank range, you are letting fox get too close to you
1:31, no up b?
1:50, this fox is doing nothing but roll, you should have baited it out with a spaced dtilt then punish with DB
1:54, never do that, its safest to recover low in a position like this
2:02, failure to punish his side b. you probably could have just waited and tippered an fsmash instead of hoping your up air hits him
2:40, he's scared of you and keeps rolling away, but you fail to follow it up and don't pressure him
Not too bad, it's mostly spacing and applying pressure when needed. A lot of times you would dtilt his shield when he was literally right next to you. You should jab or just grab him when he's that close. To get hits on you he would often try to roll behind you. You punished it a few times but if you would space your dtilt to poke at his feet it's almost certain he would roll and you'd get a free DB. Try and pick up on these things and take advantage.
I pointed out times where you should have pressured the Fox but failed to do so and just hung back. Work on this.
∫unk
Smash Master
a lot of times you were turned around when you shouldnt have been. db helps to rectify this.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Play friendlies(not on wifi) with people and focus the entire match on hitting with the very tip of the sword(which against low tier characters usually outranges almost every attack they have).
Try starting with that.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I got a Marth ditto here (I know thats not good but...). Can you critique it so far, I want general and some pressing specific things. If anyone remember my video from last time, they could say something I improved on but not necessary.
Thanks and please watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC-PfH8rXVI&fmt=6
Thanks and please watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC-PfH8rXVI&fmt=6
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Recording equipment or, if you're cheap like me, take a video camera and point it at your t.v.
Recording equipment topic here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=107705
0_o. Uhhh yeah i think i'll just stick to the video camera one. I have one anyway so i wont have to spend $. Thanks a bunch.
Illin ill critique you later, probably tomorrow. really tired
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Ok, thats cool. Thanks for responding.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
So can someone help me besides the person who posted on youtube (ty), preferably steel.
Okay illinialex.
a) you didn't tell us which Marth you were
b) Seems wifi
c) Not enough tippered fairs.
Also 3xswords give good advice.
You should follow his advice. Critiquing a mess is hard when something so simple and critical; 'no fsmash' would instantly boost your game to a level where after some practice could then be critiqued.
a) you didn't tell us which Marth you were
b) Seems wifi
c) Not enough tippered fairs.
Also 3xswords give good advice.
You should follow his advice. Critiquing a mess is hard when something so simple and critical; 'no fsmash' would instantly boost your game to a level where after some practice could then be critiqued.
crazn137
Smash Journeyman
Don't listen to that person that posted on the video. Fsmash isn't punishing move. Use Dolphin Slash OoS and Dancing Blades for that.
I'm assuming you're P1 here...
Too much rolling. Rolling gets predictable and doesn't allow for easy movement. You could have spot dodged most of the moved you rolled away from and then followed up with Dancing Blades. Don't approach with DB. Its pretty unsafe. Go with dtilt or fair instead. I didn't see much dtilt, and I'm not very sure if there was any ftilt or utilt in there. Utilt is great to juggle, and ftilt is good to stop SH approaches.
Your spacing still needs some work, and you kind of just jump into the ****. Work on incorporating a lot more dtilt into your game. Use ftilt to keep people away, and only use dancing blades to punish. Your second kill was nice btw
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I'm the red Marth sorry about that. I'm P1.
And I guess I'll try no F-smash.
And I guess I'll try no F-smash.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
rofl that was simply referring to the previous poster.. but eh i guess it works....
Seriously illinalex, you need
1) better opponents
2)better spacing
3)Stop doing laggy and escapable attacks, namely DB down variation, f-smashes, falling bair, dair, and too much rolling
4)Stutter step f-smash after f-throw or else it won't work against Marth
5)Learn to hug
6)Stop dair'ing
Only general advice can be given until you raise your gameplay level up.
∫unk
Smash Master
Watch any decent Marth and notice the differences.
Illin I dunno man, everyone else pretty much covered it. An in-depth critique won't do you much good until you learn how to control your character and learn more about high level brawl. A lot of things you did were predictable (just one example, you always rolled behind your opponent when he returned from a lost stock).
Watch vids of high level players. Try to emulate what they do. (not their style, never copy someones style. but more their technique and spacing etc)
Watch vids of high level players. Try to emulate what they do. (not their style, never copy someones style. but more their technique and spacing etc)
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Ok, I will. I'm doing this because my Marth sucks and I am trying to make him a very valid counterpick for me or my main, so I'm glad for the help. I'll try to improve him a lot. And I edgehug with Jigglypuff a fair amount, but I'm not quite as used to Marth's aerial speed... Can anyone help me with this?
speeding sonic
Smash Apprentice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFWdPCpphro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwtTSG3elks
i need some tips and how i am doin sooo far...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFWdPCpphro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwtTSG3elks
i need some tips and how i am doin sooo far...
ZHMT
Smash Lord
First off, you roll like...way too much. You have a bad habit. Try short hopping and walking instead. If you roll that much against anyone that can space themselves, its gonna be very ugly... like a 3 stock ugly. I cant really critique, just roll less, walk more. You also spammed fsmash and approached with SH Fair, which are both bad. Basically watch videos of good Marth's and watch how they play.
speeding sonic
Smash Apprentice
i see, thanks ... i guess i have alot to learn...either that or i just suck that bad...
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Just work to improve. Generally, people who roll a lot have had a past history involving fighting computers a lot...
I'm going to guess you're guilty.
Try this. Fight a level 3 computer, take it seriously, and don't roll once. Keep doing it until you learn how to move around without rolling.
∫unk
Smash Master
"If you roll with Marth, you're doing something wrong" -Junk
so after reading around, i got an idea.
should i mix the way i use to play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMDwN980Qv8)
to the way i play now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFJcf7tT1c)
should i mix the way i use to play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMDwN980Qv8)
to the way i play now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFJcf7tT1c)
∫unk
Smash Master
It's hard to judge how you played before and now because vs. Rob on FD is wayyy different than vs. IC on BF. (Ex. It's clear in the ICs video you aren't fluent with your platform spacing but that weakness is hidden on FD)
I wouldn't try to hybridize the two since they both have flaws but just work on fixing whatever weaknesses you have currently.
I wouldn't try to hybridize the two since they both have flaws but just work on fixing whatever weaknesses you have currently.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Ok, that actually helps me. So no F-smash, no rolls. F-smash maybe once a game when you know it'll hit but never elsewhere.
Coda
Smash Cadet
don't take things so literal. Haha.
Buffer Rolls as a set of mind games. Roll for mind games. Buffered rolls can confuse people and depending on the situation can get you on the advantage. (buffer roll, when they fsmash or try to punish a falling fair... and instead you land behind them. Set up for a grab or a punisher!)
If you're trying to avoid an attack, rather side step (spotdogde), shield, or dash away. Or even SHAD!
Fsmashing mentalilty is this. If you can dtilt and shadow hit... Fsmash for IASA... and you will get a tip!
Fsmash once, and it shadow hits... SB and that will tip. (don't actually use this as a guide to space, because you'll get that **** down quickly)
Fsmash to punish shielded illusions//phantasms.
Fsmash to zone.
If you do not see a tipped Fsmash, because they have penetrated you're bubble. Dsmash. (make sure you're facing them)
Don't spam either of them. But use them. "smartly"
Buffer Rolls as a set of mind games. Roll for mind games. Buffered rolls can confuse people and depending on the situation can get you on the advantage. (buffer roll, when they fsmash or try to punish a falling fair... and instead you land behind them. Set up for a grab or a punisher!)
If you're trying to avoid an attack, rather side step (spotdogde), shield, or dash away. Or even SHAD!
Fsmashing mentalilty is this. If you can dtilt and shadow hit... Fsmash for IASA... and you will get a tip!
Fsmash once, and it shadow hits... SB and that will tip. (don't actually use this as a guide to space, because you'll get that **** down quickly)
Fsmash to punish shielded illusions//phantasms.
Fsmash to zone.
If you do not see a tipped Fsmash, because they have penetrated you're bubble. Dsmash. (make sure you're facing them)
Don't spam either of them. But use them. "smartly"
feardragon64
Smash Champion
^No
10 no's
That doesn't do it justice....
100000 no's.
Fsmash is horrible move to spam. The lag afterwords is ridiculously horrible. You CANNOT expect to zone with this....
And dsmash is a kill move and a punisher for rolling. Ignoring the fact that you won't have TIME to dsmash if you miss the fsmash or it gets shielded, you're going to use two of Marth's laggiest moves back to back? That's asking to be punished.
100000 no's
I'm not even going into the rest of what you said coda. I am dying a little right now.
My soul is dying.
And it's all your fault. =[
10 no's
That doesn't do it justice....
100000 no's.
Fsmash is horrible move to spam. The lag afterwords is ridiculously horrible. You CANNOT expect to zone with this....
And dsmash is a kill move and a punisher for rolling. Ignoring the fact that you won't have TIME to dsmash if you miss the fsmash or it gets shielded, you're going to use two of Marth's laggiest moves back to back? That's asking to be punished.
100000 no's
I'm not even going into the rest of what you said coda. I am dying a little right now.
My soul is dying.
And it's all your fault. =[
No, he's just part of the problem. Don't over-exaggerate.
That is my task and that of mine alone!
Coda
Smash Cadet
I'm not saying to use them back to back.
Dsmash is much as a punisher for rolls. It is viable in circumstance where a Fsmash wouldn't tip. Dsmash would.
AND I NEVER SAID SPAM FSMASH OR DSMASH.
READ LAST LINE. DON'T SPAM EITHER.
Fsmash is more reliable against phantasm when I can't space perfectly to punish with Usmash. Shield -> (they're in landing lag) -> Fsmash. They tend to pshiled Usmash if I attempt to hit them during landing lag.
Dsmash has a much fast start rate than Fsmash. Where it trades off at a much slower finish rate.
I don't understand what your deal is.
Rolling as Marth is beneficial. It's an asset to dodge "SPECIFIC moves" I've listed various methods that are safer and better for Marth. But you CAN'T throw rolling away.
The middle paragraph about move to move comparisons... is meant for a dummy's perspective who hasn't noticed the spacing for tipped attacks. I didn't go and mean to say... Fsmash and if that misses use SB...
That is ********.
I'm still not getting your idea of Fsmash to Dsmash? That's stupid. And if I wrote that I take that back. But I leave my post uneditted.
I dunno. I'm offended just slightly.
Dsmash is much as a punisher for rolls. It is viable in circumstance where a Fsmash wouldn't tip. Dsmash would.
AND I NEVER SAID SPAM FSMASH OR DSMASH.
READ LAST LINE. DON'T SPAM EITHER.
Fsmash is more reliable against phantasm when I can't space perfectly to punish with Usmash. Shield -> (they're in landing lag) -> Fsmash. They tend to pshiled Usmash if I attempt to hit them during landing lag.
Dsmash has a much fast start rate than Fsmash. Where it trades off at a much slower finish rate.
I don't understand what your deal is.
Rolling as Marth is beneficial. It's an asset to dodge "SPECIFIC moves" I've listed various methods that are safer and better for Marth. But you CAN'T throw rolling away.
The middle paragraph about move to move comparisons... is meant for a dummy's perspective who hasn't noticed the spacing for tipped attacks. I didn't go and mean to say... Fsmash and if that misses use SB...
That is ********.
I'm still not getting your idea of Fsmash to Dsmash? That's stupid. And if I wrote that I take that back. But I leave my post uneditted.
I dunno. I'm offended just slightly.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Original post:
Your next post:
I don't understand what your deal is.
Be careful what you post.
No. Marth rolling, buffered or not is bad in general. Alright if you roll every so often. But a large majority of the time you shouldn't roll. Look up junk's awesome quote if you don't believe me.
blah blah
You just suggested right there to fsmash after dtilts....
Fsmash'ing every single phantasm is stupid. Are they seriously going to be that predictable with them *on stage*? If they're recovering, you're better off intercepting them and gimping their ridiculously crappy recoveries.
See above
The line that made me cry. I don't care about the context. Fsmash should never be used for spacing purposes....>>
^Where you say if you don't tip a fsmash and they get close to you you should dsmash....
Very convincing. You just spent the entire post talking in absolutes. If you're going to say this, imply it throughout the post, not in a small little comment at the end. As much as you think it counts for, noobs will read it and fly off in a scurry taking away the simple line "Fsmash to zone."
Your next post:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you're talking about a situation where it won't be shielded(even though that's what I was most pissed off about since everyone noob who reads what you said won't realize that because you didn't say that).
Already covered.
Already covered. If they're using phantasm on stage AND giving you enough time to fsmash SAFELY, they're doing something wrong. If they're recovering, you're better off fair or nair'ing and then proceeding to gimp the spacies' crap recovery.
time that the first hitbox comes out is a 4 frame difference.
I don't understand what your deal is.
Rolling for Marth is crap. It's slow as hell and 95% of the time you should have done something else.
Well whether you meant it or not, you said it. In case you haven't noticed, most of my problems have to do with you giving people false information, whether you meant it or not.
Thank you for leaving it uneditted. I pointed out where you said that.
You need to be careful of what you post because noobs will just eat up that kind of stuff. Especially when you have one liners like "Fsmash to zone." I reference that one a lot because no matter how you look at it, that's what it LOOKS like you're saying. I don't care if it's not because other people won't care if it's not. It needs to be put into context. You look stupid if it isn't in context and you lead ignorant people into believing it too. One liners are dangerous because people don't like reading long paragraphs and thinking about what they mean so they'll read the one liners and they will hold a lot more value than the big long paragraph. So...
Be careful what you post.
Coda
Smash Cadet
You misread, so you post carfully...
I won't bother readressing the problems with YOUR own statements.
But one thing I stand firmly... is the info about spacing referencing other moves.
The Dtilt -> Fsmash and Fsmash -> SB is mere reference to spacing. Personal zoning techniques to learn how to eye ball moves that would connect as tipped. And if not.
And the only other thing I'm standing firm is.
You need to READ AGAIN the statement about Fsmash and Dsmash.
I said see. If you see an Fsmash not connect as a tipped. You should RATHER dsmash, because if they're penetrated the tipped zone for fsmash..
THOSE 4 FRAMES will benefit you... in MAYBE getting a tipped down smash.
EDIT: ONLY TO CLARIFY.
I MEANT SEE....as in figuratively in both posts. If you "imagine" would be better off? I see. woops, my bad, "I imagine"
I won't bother readressing the problems with YOUR own statements.
But one thing I stand firmly... is the info about spacing referencing other moves.
The Dtilt -> Fsmash and Fsmash -> SB is mere reference to spacing. Personal zoning techniques to learn how to eye ball moves that would connect as tipped. And if not.
And the only other thing I'm standing firm is.
You need to READ AGAIN the statement about Fsmash and Dsmash.
I said see. If you see an Fsmash not connect as a tipped. You should RATHER dsmash, because if they're penetrated the tipped zone for fsmash..
THOSE 4 FRAMES will benefit you... in MAYBE getting a tipped down smash.
EDIT: ONLY TO CLARIFY.
I MEANT SEE....as in figuratively in both posts. If you "imagine" would be better off? I see. woops, my bad, "I imagine"
feardragon64
Smash Champion
^You said you wouldn't bother readdressing the things I stated but you did anyways. Good call or I would just say you were copping out without an answer.
Cause I'm too lazy and tired to use quote answer style:
Your dtilt->Fsmash, Fsmash->SB needs to be clarified in your post. That's my point. Your whole **** post seems to neglect certain things and gives people the wrong idea. It doesn't matter if you MEAN something. What matters is what you convey. Read the exact wording you just said about the fsmash and dsmash.
And I agree about the dsmash if it's going for a kill in a situation where you have a guaranteed hit. Fine. But you're still not saying it properly. That's what I said in my first post. You're not saying things properly. You're giving people the wrong idea.
As for your edit about about see'ing, no. All you need to do for the matter of spacing is change it to "dtilt if it's at fsmash distance" and such. Unless I'm still not understand what you're trying to say because dtilt sure as hell outranges fsmash, and such. Those measurements for spacing would be off if I'm right about what you're saying...
I've been repeating the same thing over and over because I posted carefully. My point was you didn't because you're stuck in your head when you're trying to convey your point. When some reads what you write, they get an entirely different message because you're not wording things properly or thinking from their point of view at all. You might be thinking "Fsmash to zone" when what you REALLY mean is "Use the distance of a fsmash in order to determine the distance of another move." People get the wrong idea. You're post becomes wrong information whether you knew it or not.
Anyways, this is the wrong thread to have an argument. Don't post advice unless you know what you're talking about(and you very well might), AND what you're saying.
Edit: Why the hell am I still awake arguing this. I'm going to sleep....
Cause I'm too lazy and tired to use quote answer style:
Your dtilt->Fsmash, Fsmash->SB needs to be clarified in your post. That's my point. Your whole **** post seems to neglect certain things and gives people the wrong idea. It doesn't matter if you MEAN something. What matters is what you convey. Read the exact wording you just said about the fsmash and dsmash.
That's saying IF IT DOES NOT CONNECT, not if it WOULD not connect. You're giving noobs the wrong idea. I said this like 20 times now.
And I agree about the dsmash if it's going for a kill in a situation where you have a guaranteed hit. Fine. But you're still not saying it properly. That's what I said in my first post. You're not saying things properly. You're giving people the wrong idea.
As for your edit about about see'ing, no. All you need to do for the matter of spacing is change it to "dtilt if it's at fsmash distance" and such. Unless I'm still not understand what you're trying to say because dtilt sure as hell outranges fsmash, and such. Those measurements for spacing would be off if I'm right about what you're saying...
I've been repeating the same thing over and over because I posted carefully. My point was you didn't because you're stuck in your head when you're trying to convey your point. When some reads what you write, they get an entirely different message because you're not wording things properly or thinking from their point of view at all. You might be thinking "Fsmash to zone" when what you REALLY mean is "Use the distance of a fsmash in order to determine the distance of another move." People get the wrong idea. You're post becomes wrong information whether you knew it or not.
Anyways, this is the wrong thread to have an argument. Don't post advice unless you know what you're talking about(and you very well might), AND what you're saying.
Edit: Why the hell am I still awake arguing this. I'm going to sleep....
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