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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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ZHMT

ZHMT

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Critiquing: Boost: Shaya (Marth) vs S.D (MK) [2/3], on Battlefield.

:05- Never rush towards MK at the beginning of a match, you got punished simply for approaching.

:12- Messed up the up b OOS, you need to wait for him to attack your shield directly, he scratched it.

:19 to :25- Came in too close to MK, got hit with a fair. You didn't move away from MK to get breathing room, you stayed close to him and got punished badly. Whenever MK is attacking you, run away and respace, never challenge him directly unless your aiming to up b out of your shield for a ko.

:29- Whiffed a dsmash, got punished with a dsmash leading into a nair. He actually could of gimped you with a dair, lucky.

:37- You are running into MK, dont do this, your just gonna get ***** every time.

1:12- Reverse up b would of KO'd here. You used dancing blade instead. Don't underestimate dolphin slash as a ko move.

1:17- Ok....why didn't you dolphin slash here? You cant ask for a better chance then this.

1:42- You need to create space here, he is obviously trying to KO you now and your just running around as he hits you.

1:48- Marth on the ledge...sucks doesn't it? <_<, I would of aimed to double jump and land on the top platform. Drop below it with a fair and try to defend.

2:08- Brawl fails....

2:42 to 2:49- Perfection ^_^, leads to a fsmash ****** the tornado for a KO.

2:58- You go a bit aggressive here, but he cant handle it so keep it up. Got some good damage in.

3:12- MK's dsmash beat your Dancing blade, meaning the spot dodge you did delayed your ability to attack and he punished you. Instead of spot dodging all the time, I would defend with retreating fairs and dtilts.

3:22- ...and that is why I dont spot dodge a lot vs MK.

3:28- Being on the platform as Marth is bad. Marth is so weak from the bottom and standing and jumping on the platform is like saying..."MK free ****** here...come and get it"

3:44- Don't ever do this again <3

3:52- What you started to do here, you should of been doing far more in the Match. Fair and dancing blade, dtilt and grabs.

4:03- Good thought, remember, it works better when hes at or above 100%.

4:16- MK kills himself and you win ^_^

Okay, I noticed that you could be zoning a bit better. You should work on creating a wall that MK cant get past. You know when to punish with dancing blade and know good use of the platforms. One problem I noticed is that you had many KO opportunities with dolphin slash and didnt take them. The earlier you can get ko's the better off you will be. Stay off the platforms against MK, you have no purpose being up there. Otherwise, nice vids and Marth ^_^
 
∫unk

∫unk

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Steel i see how you get your posts now.

Orichalcum I looked at the 3rd vid.

You have a lot of good things going but you make a lot of mistakes too. Mostly to do with stage control.

I used to make this mistake too so no worries. But you'll see life is much easier when you aren't playing on the edge all the time.

Other than a few move choices that I'm sure some other MBRer will go over in detail. But just keeping in mind stage control will go a long way.
 
O

Orichalcum

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Thanks ill keep that in mind. I also found that its better not to stay too much on the edge, but im used to from my main.
How about mindgames? Also what exactly are MBRer? xD
 
Steel

Steel

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Orich these are wifi so i'm not going to go too in depth like i do with offline ones... check out the marth wifi thread if you want those guys to critique it further.

A lot of your problems lie in stage control like Junk said. For example:

You would d throw your opponent, but then run forward AWAY from the peach

Sometimes when peach would pull out a turnip you would turn away and dash backwards.. do you want her to throw **** at you or do you want to hit her? Your fair can cut right through the turnip and hit Peach if she throws one as you approach. And if it hits it does what.. 5% or something?

Other times you will try and stay on the ledge of the stage and try and hit her back out. Camping her is fine but don't do it when you have basically no room to work with. You want to fight for control of the center of the stage... especially on stages like FD

You would do a lot of unsafe moves at bad times or just completely whiff attacks.. but since it's wifi i can't really critique it.. its just awkward.

Find me an offline match and I can help you more.
 
Ulevo

Ulevo

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Ankoku said:
I has vids

vs Meta Knight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzOn1E1vkAg
Click to expand...
First video:

0:00 - 0:06: You should be getting into a defensive position. That would involve stationing yourself on the ground and being prepared for his "approach". :p

0:06 - 0:09: You should have Dash Grabbed him. Remember, Marth has a 22%+ combo on Meta Knight at low percent with DThrow to FSmash. It is worth it everytime if you can land the grab. That would have been a perfect time, and Dancing Blade was unnecessary.

0:09 - 0:25: Just a note on all your short hopping jaz, don't fast fall your aerials until they've completed themselves. That is bad against Meta Knight, especially with Fair, as he can punish the little lag it has at the end if you do so. Short hop Fair, then once it's completed, fast fall for security. Nair is also inferior to Fair for defending and approaches in everyway.

0:26 - 0:40: Again, same as above.

0:45 - 0:46: Should have been a Dash to Dancing Blade.

0:52 - 0:54: I don't know if that was a mindgame, or if Bowyer is lazy, but that shouldn't have happened. Try not to risk it too much, as that will get you shuttle looped. :p

1:00 - 1:16: You should have been camping with Dolphin Slash to fast fall Air Dodge, repeat. Any aerial Marth has isn't fast enough or safe enough to have properly camped in that position the way you were doing in conjunction with DS, so Air Dodge would have kept you safer.

1:21: Should have Dolphin Slashed to get out of there.

1:23 - 1:25: Dair is a bad thing due to it's horrendous lag. It should only be used from full hops, or off stage at best. And by off stage, I mean never vs Meta Knight.

1:25 - 1:26: A USmash would have been a better choice of move.

1:30 - 1:31: You landed dangerously close to Meta Knight after falling. Try to avoid that, as he has more speed in close quarters, and you have no way to safely reset spacing or protect yourself without good positioning. Landing further away will allow you to set up that positioning.

1:42: - Dolphin Slash out of Shield.

1:44: - There are three circumstances you should ever use FSmash vs Meta Knight. The first one is when he is off stage and you feel you can hit him due to spacing. The second one is with Marths throw to FSmash combos. The third is when Meta Knight messes up a recovery special, and is falling helplessly. In every other circumstance, FSmash is completely unsafe as a move, and wil get you killed, so try not to throw them out randomly.

1:47: Again with landing too closely. Also, Bair is a poor choice to use in this circumstance because it's hitbox does not cover Marths lower body.

1:54: Dair works fine for recovery, as does every other aerial. But in this match up, it has too much lag in the air for that purpose, as Meta Knight can just follow you in the air during your lag and punish you if he is close enough. It's good to get into the habbit with Fair anyway.

1:58: Need to assume proper spacing when Meta Knight is coming back from the ledge.

2:02 - 2:04: Any time Meta Knight is above you, he is at a disadvantage. This includes gliding. Take full advantage of it with Uair and USmash as soon as you see this, as a Marth that pays attention to this will get free damage in each time. Also, this would have avoided you running right into his line of flight, and saved a stock.

2:08 - 2:10: Again with landing closely. You need to position yourself appropriately, and play defensive, or Meta Knight will rip you to shreds.

2:12 - 2:13: If Meta Knight is ever dumb enough to come back to the stage by gliding over it and decides to confront you, always stay your ground. When he nears you, Shield. Once he uses Glide Attack, DS once it finishes. If he doesn't use it and decides to try and land for a grab, he's still screwed. If he glides down very vertically and is going to space the Glide Attack well this specific way, use Jab once he is in your range, and follow it up with DSmash or DS, depending upon how much time you have.

2:13: Again with the FSmashes being unsafe. Prime example. :p

2:27: This would have been a chance to strike against Meta Knight from below. Using Uair would have been beneficial to you in this circumstance.

3:34: You should almost never chase Meta Knight off stage. Bad things happen. You have nothing to out range Glide Attack, and the best you can do is use Counter, which Meta Knight could decide to not attack and let you fall. Marth loses 90% of the time off stage to Meta Knight, and his biggest downfall against him. Nair was also suicide.

2:43: Never use DDB4. Meta Knight is able to SDI out of it really easly if he's paying attention, and will get you out of the lag. UDB4 on some occasions can be beneficial. Generally you want to stick to SDB4 always.

2:46: I know I've stated using FSmash out of no where is bad, and it is. But for the record, DSmash is faster, and makes up for the tipping space FSmash doesn't have on close quarters. It is more useful in a variety of circumstances, especially if you know you can hit with it and need the speed. Keep that in mind, although use cautiously.


General Synopsis: You land and stay far too close to Meta Knight during battle, and that interrupts your ability to space well. You use Nair too much, and Fair should be the prime choice of move, aerial wise. You need to remember to punish Meta Knight when he is above you, always, as you have the upper hand there. Make sure to mix up your recovery and use aerials along with proper DI. You need to stop throwing out random FSmashes too. Moves you should use a lot more are DTilt, Dolphin Slash for punishing, and use your Dancing Blade more effectively. That is mostly it, as the rest is play judgement.

I apologize for not critiquing the other video, but it's late and I'm tired. I hope I was of help. :)

Edit: I also apologize for my spelling. I'm too tired to fix it now. :p
 
jw511

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This is a video from the first tournament I went to a while ago. It's the only vid i used Marth in, because I switched to Ike for the rest of the match. I don't know why. It was before I found this site or anything, so I did pretty bad. I want to see what I need to improve on, but it's the only vid I have. I'll try to find a more recent one but here it is. How do you record this stuff anyway??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UVBAfzAZA&feature=channel
 
Steel

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:18, you start the match off with a dash attack when a fair would probably beat his nair

:19, he punishes your fsmash which has no chance of hitting

:22, counter is somewhat punished

:23, you are letting him control the stage and the match. you roll away and he hits you with a falcon kick

:26, another counter is punished

:29, bad spacing on the fair and he punishes with a dtilt

:31, once again you just throw out a random counter and he punishes

:34, ..dsmash on a platform?

:37, you are leaving your sword behind you and not using it to defend yourself, you are just getting hit all over the place. You've yet to land a hit and he ***** you with a knee and basically 0-deaths you

:43, you throw out two fsmashes, you were lucky that last one hit

:46, you give up the positioning you had when he was backed up against the corner by DI'ng too far back, he takes advantage and hits you with a dash attack

:48, ANOTHER counter?

:54, you fsmashed on a platform when you would have hit him if you just fell through the platform and hit him with a fair

:57, like 90% of your hits have been from an fsmash, it should be more like 2%

1:00, he punishes the fsmash

Not going to critique the rest of this, it's basically the same stuff.

Each time you landed a hit it was pretty **** lucky. This is captain falcon you are playing against and you let him completely control the match for the most part.

All you did was fsmash. That's all you did. Not even joking. You used like two moves when every move marth has has a purpose. You never used dtilt, you hardly used dancing blade at all which is your main punisher, and your spacing was sub par.

You don't seem at all comfortable with Marth, i'd recommend looking at some of the guides here to go back and learn the basics.

Fsmash is bad.
 
jw511

jw511

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Yeah, I've learned all that now. That vid was not very recent.
Now that I look at it again, I fsmashed A LOT. Oops.

How do you film matches anyway?? I want to see how people think of how I play now.
 
feardragon64

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jw511 said:
This is a video from the first tournament I went to a while ago. It's the only vid i used Marth in, because I switched to Ike for the rest of the match. I don't know why. It was before I found this site or anything, so I did pretty bad. I want to see what I need to improve on, but it's the only vid I have. I'll try to find a more recent one but here it is. How do you record this stuff anyway??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UVBAfzAZA&feature=channel
Click to expand...
Ok I'm going to give a through breakdown of the match. Don't take offense to anything we say here unless you're being a complete spam wh0re. But minus the accidental creation of your "rate my marth" topic(which you promptly fixed) you have a clean slate. Welcome to the Marth boards by the way.

(0:18) Don't use dash attack....It's horrible unless it's just like a surprise attack.
(0:19) Whiffed fsmash. Don't use fsmash unless you're actually planing on hitting. You'll get punished as you do.
(0:21) Countered for seemingly no reason. To me, it just didn't seem like the appropriate time. Counter is great to mess with their heads but you easily could have gotten out of that and it was too early in the match to tell if he was going to chase you(and he ended up not chasing you).
(0:23) Another dash attack. Stop using it.
(0:25) Another counter.
(0:27) Another whiffed fsmash.
(0:29) Poorly spaced fair. If the falcon player was better, he would have shield grabbed you but you lucked out. My recommendation is to use the c-stick set to attack and do all of your aerials with the Cstick. That way you can move backwards while in the air right after you do your aerial so you're not in shield grab range. Make sense?
(0:30) Another counter.
(0:31) This is just a side note, but about 12 seconds into the match I've noticed a pattern that you always air dodge RIGHT after you get hit into the air, no matter the distance. Try and vary it up so that you don't become predictable.
(0:33) Another counter.
(0:34) Whiffed dsmash when he's not on the same platform as you. Also, this is more to be used as either a way to punish rolling or a kill move at higher percents.
(0:36) Poor reaction time in spacing. You get hit by a dash attack you saw coming way before.
(0:38) He gets the knee on you because he notices you air dodge every time you get hit into the air like I said before. And he's at 0%.=[
(0:43) Another whiffed fsmash.
(0:44) Lucky tipper fsmash. But you were throwing out so many one of them were bound to hit.
(0:45) That's how you should be doing your fairs. You space yourself with fairs and then move backwards in the air so they can't punish you for it. But you only do one so...
(0:46) He gets a dash attack on you.
(0:47) He misses his neutral aerial. This is the perfect time to use dtilt. But...another counter.
(0:49) Rolling behind the opponent too much is generally bad, but you've only done it once so it's not too bad yet. Yet.
(0:51) Good. Punishing predictability. Though you use fsmash again. Stop using fsmash! Dancing blades!
(0:54) Another Whiffed fsmash
(0:55) Rolling? Probably just should have jumped backwards but meh.
(0:57) You're behind him, he's in his lag time from using jab, you fsmash. No! You were in perfect grab range! =[
(0:58) lol sakurai tripping
(0:59) Another whiffed fsmash. He's predicting you because you're using it too much and spot doges.
(1:04) Another counter and fsmash(but this one hits, but should have used dancing blades)
(1:06-1:09) Nice! This is what the entire game should have looked like. Falcon trying to approach and you hitting him in the face with a sword and retreating before he can do anything.
(1:10) That fsmash SHOULD have killed him, but you've used it so much that it decayed and he easily survives. That's one reason why you don't use fsmash so much.
(1:15) Another fsmash that should have killed.
(1:17) You were just being predictable.
(1:19) Another counter. I'm going to stop pointing this one out.
(1:20) Dsmash that kills! Good use.
(1:24) Whiffed fsmash. I'm going to stop pointing this out too.
(1:32) Dsmash. Save it for higher percents or punishing rolling. Use dtilt instead.
(1:37) Punished predictability. You constantly just charge in when he gets close enough to you. He noticed that and knew you would drop down from the ledge to attack.


I'm going to stop there. It's mostly repetitive.

Basically:
-Stop fsmash spam
-Stop counter spam
-Use tilts. You didn't use a single tilt!
-Use dancing blade to punish
-Basically, work on the basics.
-Read the stickies
-Read the stickies

And don't worry. Everyone starts off somewhere. Just keep working on it.
 
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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jw511 said:
This is a video from the first tournament I went to a while ago. It's the only vid i used Marth in, because I switched to Ike for the rest of the match. I don't know why. It was before I found this site or anything, so I did pretty bad. I want to see what I need to improve on, but it's the only vid I have. I'll try to find a more recent one but here it is. How do you record this stuff anyway??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UVBAfzAZA&feature=channel
Click to expand...
I didnt see a tilt or a Nair or a Uair or a Bai in the entire match, 98% of your hits were from Fsmash and Fair, I sow 4 DB's, and only 1 grab. Marth's grab gam can help with set-ups for his other moves, especially at lower percents. You need to learn the basics, really.
 
Yoshi Kirishima

Yoshi Kirishima

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Ya you spammed Counter a little too much, I do do that sometmies (or at least back then) cus it kept feeling like he was gonna hit me... just keep reminding yourself not to use Counter too much. You fsmashed too much also. Well ya you said this was outdated anyway and stuff... but ya try some other moves in there too to make yourself not to predictable.

One nice thing I did notice though, was that you tippered your fsmash quite a lot. Good job on that :D.


And also btw this is a pretty cool thread :). I'm gonna post a vid of my Marth sometime, or try to. I really need to know where my Marth is at.
 
∫unk

∫unk

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• Poor spacing (always went too far forward after an aerial giving up stage control, having to roll backwards to try to regain it).
• Poor move choice (trying to grab icey's last stock wtf)
• Predictable (sh f-air every time)
• Got outplayed except IC's was terrible in getting the kill and was excellent at killing himself.
• Roll is bad.

You have some good moments but mostly you need more experience against better people. IC's is probably around the same level as you right there (okay but not quite there yet).

Watch vids of neo and notice how he moves.
 
jw511

jw511

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I'm still wondering how do people record these matches? I saw someone using a laptop to record it but i don't know how that works. What do you guys use to record this stuff?

Sorry about how bad that video was. I wanted to know why I got beaten so badly. Hopefully I'll be able to put a more recent one up. :urg:
 
Steel

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Rovl said:
i would like a full analysis and general overview please :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFJcf7tT1c
Click to expand...
:06, poor spacing gets you grabbed. i can tell already these IC's can't be very good, didn't even get one chain throw off to continue the punishing

:14, you keep backing off and allow the IC's to rush you and you get hit

:16, you were right behind them and they were suffering from lag.. but you jump over them?

:20, why didn't you continue your fall with a fair? your shield breaker makes no impact

:23, you do a random sheild breaker the other way, you probably should have got grabbed but you lucked out. not sure why you rolled behind them afterwards, you could have just turned around and used dancing blade. marth's roll isn't that good and is pretty unsafe

:28, you could have combo'd the first fair into a dancing blade but instead your poor spacing gets you grabbed again

:39, Nana was off the stage in a horrible position away from popo and you ignore her? separate the two, kill nana, then kill popo. you missed a golden opportunity to gimp

:50, you fast falled an up air off stage.. >_>

:58, no regards to your positioning and leaving your sword behind you gets you grabbed yet again

1:04, you hit nana out and you have two great options. you can apply pressure to Popo or go and try to gimp nana. you ignore both of these options and just hang back and let popo roll backwards to gather up nana

1:14, why do you keep rolling? you're giving up center stage

1:18, are you going to attack or just jump and roll around? he was open multiple times but you just kept giving up chances... you dash into him and get grabbed

1:44, your approach is pretty predictable, its just SHFF. IC's are taking advantage and grabbing your after lag

2:10, why did you even THINK of trying a dair? you could have continued your fair chain to attempt to gimp the IC's. now they are back on stage and a better position than you are. you get hit with a dair

2:15, stop using shield breaker unless you know how to use it properly, its highly telegraphed and there are much better options

2:24, easy to see coming, IC's take off your second stock

2:38, once again nana was separated from popo, should have taken this chance to gimp her

2:43, you just continue to jump away and let the IC's rush you


Marth is one of the hardest characters for IC's to grab. You got grabbed a LOT. You only need to get grabbed three times by a good IC to lose a match. This one was not good with chain grabs so you weren't punished as much as you could have been.

Highly predictable, one-dimensional approach, not so good spacing. All you did was SHFF fair pretty much. You never really zoned your opponent and you never threw out any pokes like dtilt.

You don't really look too comfortable with Marth, you need to go into training mode and learn spacing and keeping your sword out in front of your body. Also learn the concept of stage positioning. You kept giving it up by all this rolling and unneeded jumping.
 
Steel

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Ankoku vs ROB

:16, little spacing error, you trade hits

:18, Retreating fair probably would have been a better option than a SHFF

:35, k he spot dodges your grab now DANCING BLADE!!11...... you spot dodge D:

:39, misjudge where he is going to land, i would have just stood there with my shield and where ever he was about to land just DS'd. he didn't have many options at that point

:51, try to do a little less SHFF's, surprised he didn't spot dodge this

:52, you hit him off stage, he whiffs his fair and you are in perfect position to throw out a tipper fair, you miss you chance to reset the situation

1:04, i don't like when anyone just stands there with the shield up when their opponent has those invinc frames, take advantage of marths mobility and just move around. shielding will just get you grabbed... or should at least

1:38, you attempt to punish him at 0% with a shield breaker? i think you know what would have been the better option

1:42, you land the DB but try to chain it to a jab... which has crap knockback and you get hit. should have just continued the db

2:33, this is the first fsmash im correcting, must be... IMPROVEMENT!

2:38, i spoke too soon >_>

2:50, that was pro

2:59, definitely a necessary fsmash


Not bad, much less fsmashing till that last stock XD Cut down on the SHff's and maybe more standard spaced fairs. Keep at it.
 
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