The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

[Blubolouis]

Actually, I know it's not that bad.
If I had better reflexes, I'd be able to SDI the first hit of whatever multi-hit move that touched me and don't even be disadvantaged by the lack of C-SDI (or whatever it's called these days).
Part of why I'm a joke vs MK, I still get hit by entire tornadoes.




And PK Fire

 

[C.J.]

>people still think you can SDI nado.

You can't. It is 100% up to how the MK uses nado.

You can SDI the very first and the very last hit of it- but none of the million hits between the two. Don't even try- you'll just break your controller.

 

[Blubolouis]

"If I had better reflexes, I'd be able to SDI the first hit of..."
That's what I'm saying :I

 

[san.]

You have to learn to SDI when you sense danger (ex. obviously mis-spaced an attack, or you're dangerously close to an enemy),

because that leaves SDI out of the realm of reflex most of the time.

EDIT: And if you aren't DIing/SDIing by using half/quarter circles back and forth yet, start doing it and your life will be easier.

 

[XLR8TION]

I'm not really asking for this vid to be critiqued but just an explaination on what the duck just happened at 1:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhX0OxaK2bk&t=1m46s

 

[Ussi]

EDIT: Sigh..

XLR8 did his fair a couple frames before SK and SK's hurtbox was within range. Is all I can say. Fair's angle looks more like 150 degrees too. Dunno where I've seen 220 before...

Oh fair obviously hits behind Ike as well if that wasn't known...

 

[theeboredone]

You hit his sword with the overhead part of f-air before his hit boxes started?

 

[san.]

He hit your hand. Simple as that.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, the hitbox of Fair that is taking effect there is this one:

Which is the very first hitbox that comes out. Looking at the video frame-by-frame, it seems like you fast-fell at just the right moment and ended up just far enough underneath SK to nick the very tip of his foot with the very back edge of your sword. I'd say if you were a couple pixels to the left or he were a couple to the right, you would have whiffed and his Fair would have hit you from behind.

 

[XLR8TION]

ohh I see, thanks all. Thats just not something I dont do often lol

 

[Ussi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smx_oN8IlOY

Fail stamp me, keep in mind we played 7 games before this one (3 games in tourney, 4 games of MM) so there is some conditioning and habit exploiting

 

[Nysyarc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smx_oN8IlOY

Fail stamp me, keep in mind we played 7 games before this one (3 games in tourney, 4 games of MM) so there is some conditioning and habit exploiting

Alright, some things I noticed:

0:08 - May not have been intentional but using Nair that high up without FFing could have gotten you grabbed pretty easily, and then GR chained.

0:30 - It's fairly obvious here that you would have been served better by a Nair than Dair. I don't understand why anyone tries to defend Dair into ground as an option.

0:34 - When he's so high up don't go for the hard read so soon. His down B is easy to punish on reaction as long as you're prepared for it.

0:38 - Spot dodging Yoshi's jab will almost never work, hold your shield and after his second jab use your own Jab out of shield.

0:45 - I can see why you would have been inclined to reverse Aether there, but it's too risky if the opponent isn't actually far off-stage returning to it. If he hadn't been so quick to use his ledge attack you would have lost your stock there.

0:54 - Every time you get a grab, pummel. At least once, more if your opponent doesn't mash or is at high percent. On top of refreshing moves and doing damage, drawn-out pummeling also helps to slow your opponent's momentum in cases like this.

1:04 - That ground pound should have been an easy read. I've been watching this guy for a minute and I knew he'd do that. I think he was aiming for the ledge, but an Uair still would have beat it and taken the stock.

1:14 - That was exactly what I was thinking you should do there, lol. Uair is the perfect surprise KO move for situations like that, and you pulled it off beautifully here.

1:32 - Get rid of that auto-roll reaction if you can. Train yourself to Jab whenever you hear that powershield sound.

1:38 - That was just '08 style recovery failure right there, I haven't seen anyone get a spike like that in a long time, lol.

2:02 - All I can say to that is, don't try to mash jump out of his CG, because you'll just end up wasting your double jump. I'm not sure if you could have maneuvered towards the stage earlier and recovered because I don't know exactly how soon you regain control after he releases you. It seems like you should have been able to recover there.

Last KO was so troll. Overall pretty solid by you, although the Yoshi wasn't too great and it really should have been close to a JV 3 stock at the end. Try not to go for fast-fall Bairs into the ground so much, there are definitely certain times when it's useful but it's also risky and you didn't have much success with it.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Too much unnecessary double jump.

:34 Nice punish, brah.

:45 You should have been punished.

Soooo many Dairs into ground when your opponent wasn't even there. You got punished a lot for it.

1:03 You would have punished if you weren't busy double jumping at nothing on the other side of the stage, I'm sure.

NO. YOU NEVER DO THIS. You should have lost the match for doing this alone.

1:54 Air dodge, don't jump. Or what happened happens.

2:34 Counter.

 

[Ussi]

I did say it was 7 serious games we've played beforehand so that spike was a hard read cause I expected him to attack me (which he did use nair)

Charged moves feel like they shouldn't charge that long x_x;; i'm surprised I still PS'd after the spotdodge.


Basically i need to just hold shield more. I have a habit to double jump to give myself more time to breathe/think..

You can AD to avoid Yoshi's grab if he mis-times it?

 

[theeboredone]

Just finished Arkham City. Most of the side missions are great and the main story is great minus the ending imo. I recommend it to anyone, though a rent may be better since it's a 12 hour game at most if you don't bother collecting/solving all 400 riddles left by the Riddler.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Ussi, off the ledge, you should, because he ate your jump.

Mustafa, nice thread choice.

 

[theeboredone]

Yeah, I failed hard. Never again.

 

[benaji261!]

Hey guys! Kinda back from lurking. So I went to a tourney in Louisiana this past weekend and Lee Martin was there. He was over playing UMvC3 with a few of his buds when he wasn't playing a tourney match, probably because he's tired of this game. Anyways I got a couple of vids of me and was wondering if you guys could critique them. They're probably not worth your time, but I need advice on my bad habits. One of which I notice is that I spotdodge WAY too much, and I probably do that cause of wifi. Here's the vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KAmOt8-e_Q&list=FLHUnXodo_6FD4jMcLT_QgfQ&index=2&feature=plpp_video

- Me (Ike) vs BSL (Olimar/Luigi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW8Chs-XjN0&list=FLHUnXodo_6FD4jMcLT_QgfQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video

- Me (Ike) vs Lee Martin (MK)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b42Sw38ngko&feature=channel_video_title

- Me (Ike) vs Batto (MK)

I beat BSL 2-0, and then got knocked into losers by Lee Martin 0-2. Then I played Batto who pretty much finished me off 0-2 I believe. i had mad friendlies with him later and everyone there and had fun overall, even with my poor results. I think I was 9th of 12 or something. I'm hyped to go to another tourney, let alone play offline more. It's a good time for me.

 

[smashkng]

Benaji, I've watched your vids quickly and what I can say is that your spacing really must improve. Work on it, because you got severely punished a lot of times because of that. For example your Nairs should have been retreated (which makes it very hard to punish for most characters if it's done correctly). Also I didn't notice you pivot jabbing a single time, it's actually pretty easy to do when you buffer it from another move. And lastly, you could have for example used Bthrow<Dash Attack a few times but instead you just Fthrow which didn't follow up into anything. Other than that, you play pretty smart and the spike you did on Lee Martin was very nice.

 

[benaji261!]

Benaji, I've watched your vids quickly and what I can say is that your spacing really must improve. Work on it, because you got severely punished a lot of times because of that. For example your Nairs should have been retreated (which makes it very hard to punish for most characters if it's done correctly). Also I didn't notice you pivot jabbing a single time, it's actually pretty easy to do when you buffer it from another move. And lastly, you could have for example used Bthrow<Dash Attack a few times but instead you just Fthrow which didn't follow up into anything. Other than that, you play pretty smart and the spike you did on Lee Martin was very nice.

You're right about all of that... lol I didn't notice I wasn't using bthrow>dash attack a lot and just fthrowing people. Idk if I've really tried putting pivot jabbing into my play, just pivot grabbing. I'll work on that, too. That spike was luck so eh lol. Thanks for the help.

 

[Nysyarc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC8yGnmWnao

Critique pl0x.

I know I won but it was a close match and I felt like I was playing close to or at the top of my game, which is rare at smashfests. The main things I'd like some tips on are better ways to get back on-stage against Marth, and better ways to keep him off-stage. I spent quite a bit of time that match playing from the ledge out of necessity, and I'd like to be able to control the stage better.

 

[theeboredone]

Random q but do those custom sound effects play actually in game? I just realized how distracting that is while making an attempt to critique.

 

[Nysyarc]

Ah, yah they do. I don't even really notice them anymore, sorry about that, lol. Croi has sound effect hacks on a lot of different characters.

 

[Blubolouis]

Do I know this match-up yet? vs g&w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWcAfhkLnqM

Please tell me if you notice a habit I should get rid of. I found one, which is trying to punish Full hop Fair on shield with a dash attack, which got me punished like 20 times. And more importantly, noticing it and switching to Fair him *only once* (insert facepalm)

@Nys I'll try and see if I can tell you anything later this night.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Do I know this match-up yet? vs g&w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWcAfhkLnqM

Nope. You didn't properly shield turtle a couple times and you... you... well...... you tried to... uhm. You tried to GIMP G&W.

Maybe I can do critiques of you guys later tonight. I'm about to run through some songs I'll be singing at a hospital tomorrow, so can't do it now.

 

[Ussi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC8yGnmWnao

Critique pl0x.

I know I won but it was a close match and I felt like I was playing close to or at the top of my game, which is rare at smashfests. The main things I'd like some tips on are better ways to get back on-stage against Marth, and better ways to keep him off-stage. I spent quite a bit of time that match playing from the ledge out of necessity, and I'd like to be able to control the stage better.

There weren't really any times for a fail stamp so um.. normal critique:

38: retreat foo

1:28 HOLD IT

It's fairly obvious here that you would have been served better by a Nair than Dair. I don't understand why anyone tries to defend Dair into ground as an option.

fair would work too

2:03 good jab 2 spacing

2:35 bthrow wall lock or utilt

2:51 save that for a combo video

3:33 late bair, be used to using bair OoS on high non-FF aerials

4:21 just as planned

 

[Nysyarc]

1:28 HOLD IT

Actually, that was intended to be a Nair, but I tilted the c-stick a bit too far downwards.

And yah I need to work on retreating my OoS Bairs. I also need to work on not using Bair OoS so often; I tend to default to Bair when the opponent is behind me, rather than pivot Jab, regardless of what they hit my shield with.

 

[Ussi]

Yea you've reached a point where critique wouldn't really help you since a lot of what happened was because you two know each other so well.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Hi, I'm looking for help.

Be brutal: http://youtu.be/TiGdamnG9Hc

 

[Nysyarc]

Hi, I'm looking for help.

Be brutal: http://youtu.be/TiGdamnG9Hc

No-sympathy mode engaged. Brutality level: 9001. Initiate critique.

0:07 - Never open with an approaching Fair, stay conservative and see what they do first then punish with Jabs. And don't approach with Fair anyways, Nair is much better for that.

0:17 - Dash Attack is situational, only use it if you know you have your opponent read or they have no option but to AD into it... or as a follow-up to Bthrow of course. Get into position to Jab him after the air dodge here instead.

0:19 - Pivot and Jab that to punish, wasted opportunity for 15% or more.

0:29 - WiFi gave you a break there.

0:35 - That will never work if Sheik transforms immediately after reviving, she retains her invincibility after the transformation.

0:39 - Don't land on the stage after using Aether like that unless you have them caught in it, and even then use discretion based on the character and what % they're at (don't land on-stage if they're at very low percent and have a strong Fair to punish you with). You just end up with severely punishable landing lag.

0:42 - Oh WiFi... this should have been the match right here. But...

0:46 - Don't roll so much, especially not around your opponent. Ike's roll is garbage. Whenever my opponent first revives after losing a stock I like to wait out their invincibility by standing near the edge and ledge-hogging when they come near, then planking for a second.

0:52 - Watch your spacing with Fair, that was really poorly spaced. Aim to hit with the tip of your sword, and anticipate how your opponent will move before swinging. If you think they'll dash towards you, probably a better idea to retreat a Nair rather than throw out a laggy Fair.

0:55 - Don't QD to recover unless it's necessary, which is rare. It definitely wasn't necessary here, and it led to you losing a stock. Also, don't roll to get up from the ledge. Mix up regular stand-ups, jumping from the ledge and ledge-drop double-jumping (exactly what it sounds like, drop down and immediately double-jump on-stage).

1:10 - Don't Fsmash at the ledge unless your opponent is falling towards you from above and you have them royally mind-****ed. Otherwise you'll just get punished. It's a move that should only be used when it WILL work, not thrown out as a prayer.

1:25 - Dtilt also will never work at the ledge, except as a rare follow-up to Jab if your opponent has never seen it done before.

1:27 - Follow up that Jab; you just kind of stopped after one.

1:34 - There it is. Do not use Dair into the ground, abysmal landing lag and not worth it at all. Use Nair or just air dodge and then Jab instead. I should make a compilation video of Ike mains doing Dairs into the ground and getting punished for it.

1:38 - I normally don't repeat a point I've already made, but seriously, stop landing on-stage with Aether. This one cost you a stock (sort of... read on).

1:39 - DI that Fair upwards (hold up on your control stick when you are hit). Also, don't double jump right away, save it for when it's necessary. You should have easily survived that whole ordeal, even barring the Aether landed on-stage.

2:00 - Stop grabbing at nothing; although I realize that may have been WiFi, there was still nothing else in those situations you could have done that was any better besides waiting out his jumps or perhaps throwing out a retreated Nair.

2:05 - Don't finish your Jab combo if you don't hit with the first two. The third Jab is easily punished.

2:11 - You really need to use Nair more often, and way less Fair. At the very least, space your Fairs better by moving backwards and inputting them with the C-stick. At the very most, set your C-stick to "Attack" instead of "Smash" and input your Nairs by hitting diagonally on the C-stick so you can space them better as well.

At the end you started getting way too predictable about how you were coming back to the stage. You used far too many Dairs into the ground, double-jumped straight back to the stage rather than FFing to the ledge or something. You also need to stop using your double-jump right away as a reflex, save it for when you need it. Also stop using it so much on-stage, stick with empty short hops or full hops.

Don't roll as much, learn the timing for Jab-canceling and implement it into your game. Work on using Nair much more often and Fair much less often. Stop using Dair, and don't try for Dtilts at the ledge. Don't use Fsmash until you know how to use it, completely eliminate it from your game for now and learn to time Jab to Utilt for KOing. Bair and Uair are also great for KOing and can be used to punish air dodges. Think your opponent is going to air dodge? Wait for it and then Bair 'em, or trap them with Uair's long hitbox.

Finally, I feel like the horse is still breathing raggedly so I'm gonna beat it one more time: do not land on stage with Aether. Ever, for now. Once you get more used to situations where it is safe to do so, you can do that at your own discretion, but for now treat it like you will lose a stock guaranteed for landing on stage with Aether. Which is sometimes the case. Also don't use QD to recover, stick to Aether for practice and because it is safer.

Keep working at it, and please let me know if you would like clarification on anything I mentioned or even video examples or anything like that. I'm always here to help.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Okay. Stop approaching with Fair. It's bad and you should feel bad. Approach with perfectly spaced Nair instead. Fair is for retreating, creating space, or reading a jump.

Don't use your second jump against Shiek until you are out of the path of the needles. Your second stock got ***** for that.

Every time you ever approached the ground, you used an aerial (mostly Dair, which is the worst unless you're making a hard read at a jump or attack whose hitbox will lose to Dair). 95% of the time, you'll want to save your second jump if possible and land with either Nair or an air dodge.

And you need to jab more.
Also never finish your jab combo if you aren't hitting anything.

And you will almost never hit with an obvious Dtilt off the edge.

Also, don't use an aerial to momentum cancel when you aren't going all the way to the blase zone. This mistake got your last stock taken from you.

Basically, you threw out a bunch of attacks that had no hope of ever reaching Sheik, and none of those attacks were Nair and Jab, which are Ike's best moves.



edit: Ninjad. But read Nys's critique as well as mine. We critique differently, but you'l find both of us helpful.

 

[Nysyarc]

I've got to update the critique archives one of these days... it'll happen. I'm on my February break right now so maybe sometime next week or this weekend.

 

[Teh Brettster]

If you do that, I'm going to feel bad for never doing anything with the OP of the social thread.
Though I still have no good ideas for that. The Q&A index sounded cool at first, but... meh.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Thanks to both of you. I'll definitely try the things I you suggested, hopefully it'll help my game to the point of not getting three stocked. (Because neither of my kills on him in that game would have happened offline.)

 

[Yoh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhS5zxbsmFg

any general advices what to do better?
I already see some things I could have done better(poor DI, poorly recovered), but perhaps you guys see some other things in my actual gameplay.
thanks in advance =)

 

[Ussi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhS5zxbsmFg

any general advices what to do better?
I already see some things I could have done better(poor DI, poorly recovered), but perhaps you guys see some other things in my actual gameplay.
thanks in advance =)

Recover better, don't try to dair a sharking MK through the stage (i tried that and ended up losing a set because of it)

By recover better, if MK is near the ledge you have to FF aether (FF jump aether) so he can't just run off and dair you. Ike's quirk with recovering is that not many characters can FF as fast as him. You lost 2 stocks to walk off dair :\

Your on stage game is on point though, hence why you were winning in the beginning.

Also man, good job getting 5th at some tourney i heard about. You should post more here

 

[Teh Brettster]

I've never seen you play before, Yoh. I'm really happy to see how skilled you are.

I'd say 3 things made you lose.
1) You got carried away just a couple times making walls of Fair and Nair-- so much that you didn't worry about the real timing and spacing. It happens to all of us sometimes, but it happened near the end when MK was gliding toward you, and it was what got you knocked offstage the last time.
2) Definitely DI. It played a part in every stock lost. Whether it was 10% why you died or 100% why you died, it played a part.
3) You need to experiment recovering with QD especially against MK. Start it up mid-high and hold the charge. If he stays onstage, release to the ledge. If he is going to follow you offstage, decide when to release... very high, just to the platform onstage, or low--right before the ledge.
This will help you avoid all the impossible recovery attempts that end up in an MK Dair after you've used your 2nd jump.

Well played other than that, though.

 

[Yoh]

indeed, it wasn´t very good trying to dair him through the stage, it was actually my first time I counterpicked halberd just to try it out
because he banned fd and going to delfino against mk meh =/
on battlefield I´m not that good
yep thats another weakness, It happens often to me that I get carried away and just do nairs and fairs all day.
I´m going to work on my DI and my offstage/recovery game.
so thanks that really helped! I´ll do my best to represent Ike here

@ussi
that match was from that tourney.
and yeah I try to post a bit more here, I always want but then I´m just reding a bit x)

 

[Ussi]

When you are moving (in the air at least), hold diagionally up in the direction you go (so up right or up left) so you are constantly DIing up.

 

[theeboredone]

I don't think Halberd is a good choice. For MK to go through the stage like that makes the match up more troublesome. If you're not that good on BF, how about YI or PS1?