The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread

[2-DJeff]

The only times I find mashing to be useful is when nana isnt in position, if the icies tries to take his time with the cg, or sometimes when they try and charge a smash attack.

thats why i always CG to 120% then upsmash because my friend Sax and esam always mashes out the charge ones so i said hey let me do like 2-3 more grabs so i dont have that problem.
O and hylian lets discuss the Mk MU in the MU thread later. And also other MUs

 

[Hylian]

The only times I find mashing to be useful is when nana isnt in position, if the icies tries to take his time with the cg, or sometimes when they try and charge a smash attack.

Nana actually wasn't in position when I grabbed ally lol but sopos dthrow cg is so good it makes up for it . High%'s though mashing does the best when ics try to charge to early and don't fthrow or bthrow.

 

[DeLux]

I have since amended that aspect of my gameplay by fthrowing first and THEN charging Usmash, eliminating the chance of grab breaking.

Please stop talking about who mashes what. Given that if I were doing everything technically correct (which I noted I fixed), mashing speed won't matter during and finishing a CG.

If they mash out on a charge, you're doing it wrong. In the video, I was doing it wrong. The method listed previously is the correct way of doing it.

Note: Technically you aren't buffering a CG to eliminate frames of mashing. You're buffering out of the IASA of the throwing climber. It makes it so the throwing climber doesn't move on the directional input. If you try to buffer directly out of a grab on some characters, you'll actually throw too fast for the regrab. Again, see Guest's chart for exact details.

I'll watch it all and give my 2 cents later. But even though you said not to say it. You really should just pivotgrab everything. Like. You can force his approach with projectiles, and if you just wait for it the matchup is free imo. Your new ICs have a lot of potential, but in this particular mu, I think they are unnecessary. Oldschool method is simple and effective. But I'll give better analysis for YOUR ICs probably tomorrow.

Thanks for the on point thoughts.

I disagree (sort of) with the notion of just pivot grab everything. That strategy works fine if you play from ahead during the matchup and they are forced to chase you. If you're playing from behind and the opponent is disciplined AND knows the matchup, then no amount of IBs is going to force them approach.

So again, I was testing two things:

1. A option limiting strategy that was more aggro in getting grabs than being defensive and pivot grabbing approaches
2. Seeing if LD1 could handle the speed of anti-sonic utility.

Based on the videos, both of those tests came out in favor of what I was looking for.

Sonic mains all do stuff in a pattern. It's insanely hard to pick up on, they usually start doing it when they're under pressure or "in the heat of battle". I saw this with X. and once you know what they do. take advantage of it. Sometimes it'd take me over a few minutes to get him to do it, but usually it was an ensured grab.

X is incredible. I had the fortunate opportunity to play him in a friendly. However, he was much easier for me to grab than KG was. AND he was the first legit sonic I've ever played outside of wifi. SO rather than CGing him to death, I practiced a CG startup transfer and then let him go. Like a dozen times. He won the friendly, but I got more experience out of it by losing than I would have by CGing him to death 3 times.

blizz wall is good, but don't over use it. tilts are good against him.

when they're on the ledge. SND is pretty good, if they try to punish you with a fair or nair, you can land a fsmash on them. it's a little give and take.

I feel like good sonics are too mobile for a blizzard wall. If you have time to setup for an SND, then you have time to setup for an LD1 or LD2 grabsetup. So then instead of punishing with Fsmash, you can punish with grab.

if you're attempting to fair spike them, follow up with falling off and bairing and having nana or yourself grabbing the ledge, if he gets on the stage, just get the grab.

This is bad advice. Don't fair spike sonic. Don't fair spike anyone if you can adequately CG them.

get to know your players. which is obvious. if you know what makes them tick, do it. bug them mentally if you know what bothers them. this has won me multiple games. anything that can get you that advantage, use it.

EX.
Out of state, i found out some players hated when i'd tap my foot because it vibrated the floor. So i used it against them.

use psychological factors guys, it makes a massive impact.

I am not going to use outside factors of the game to affect results. Especially in a friendly where I'm trying to test different strategies on people. Doing this makes us no better than someone that screams at us to try to make us drop a CG. That in itself is unsportsmanlike.

 

[r3d d09]

... sonic writeup ignored

 

[ch33s3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5lOmmP5iw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIMJGWK5v8

This is a friendly set I played after Pound 5. If you decide to critique it, please don't say "pivot grab everything Sonic does." I specifically played that matchup with the intent of testing the speed of LD1 desync game against the speed of Sonic. Playing at that speed noticeably affected my consistency in execution, but based on the evidence, I feel like it shows an alternative to playing the Sonic matchup that isn't dependent on the opponent Sonic Approaching. Or at the very least, shows that certain grab setups using the new desyncs are possible where we previously wouldn't have been able to grab setup.

Also, Goggles is by far the fastest masher I've played. He grab broke during the incidental pummel animation caused by charging usmash despite me trying to buffer Fthrow on the pummel IASA frame. I have since amended that aspect of my gameplay by fthrowing first and THEN charging Usmash, eliminating the chance of grab breaking.

Things I need to work on:

- NOT over committing on a setup and getting baited for a grab
- Consistency on LD1 execution to continually limit options
- Safer and less predictable guard breaking tactics

Most of the stuff I'd say, you already noted yourself. You whiffed a lot of aerials which got you punished, and your dropped grabs are ugh. Other than that, you did fine.

Pivot grab everything.

 

[EverAlert]

Ok guys, so I finally got some sets recorded vs various characters, if y'all could critique as much as possible (there's a lot lol) then that'd be great.

VS Tedeth
Snake -- Game1, Game2 (only 30s recorded, gay'd)
Wolf -- Game1&2
Wario -- Game1&2
VS Zxv
MK -- Game1&2
Marth/Peach -- Game12&3
Peach/Snake -- Game1&2
VS Gords
TL -- Game1, Game2
VS Foxy
TL -- Game1, Game2
Friendlies
VS Gords (TL) -- Game1
VS Foxy (TL) -- Game1, Game2, Game3, Game4, Game5

Sorry about there being so many, I wanted to be thorough heh. I don't really have much self-critique tbh, aside that I felt I was playing as solidly as I could (barring a few bad slip-ups), but I still lose to Ted and Zxv like every time and I really don't know why, I normally beat other players of the same characters. :/

I know I'm terribad, so please go easy on me haha. But please also be ruthless, I really really want to improve, I'm sick of sucking.

 

[r3d d09]

I would rarely actually get more than 1 CG kill against X, it's just by the end of me playing smash, i was pretty good at reading him and would get grabs really often.

when i'd fair spike him, i'd always get the kill, i played him enough to know how he'd react.. This was also when my CG skills were bad. haha.

 

[2-DJeff]

so no one agrees that lux went in to much when he had the lead?
I just wana see if you guys agree

 

[DeLux]

so no one agrees that lux went in to much when he had the lead?
I just wana see if you guys agree

It's hard to agree with something if you hadn't said it before hand. The only thing you've said in critique of my match vs. Kid Goggles is that ESAM mashes quickly. The fact that the top Pikachu in the nation is a fast masher is vital info to know in the Sonic Matchup.

Reserved for Long Post Critiquing LEA

Snake match vs. TeDeth 1-

First Mistake - You struck to Smashville. I don't know what the starter stages are, but the tier list of starters against Snake is: FD > BF > PS1 > (CS) > YI/SV > (LC) imo.

You start off the match with wayyy too much activity. It was good once you forced him off the platform and yourself between him and the platform. At that point, you should have gone straight to desync IBs in that range you and I were talking about.

Don't squall twice in a row at someone when they read the first one.

At like 1:39 you had yourself in that win setup I outlined earlier. But you gave up the spacing by Nairing in the middle of the level, causing the nade to bounce off of you. At which point the platform came back to him.

You're just letting the snake control the entire stage. Which is why you're losing at this point.

Don't mess up your smobbles. Also against Snake, you should consider usmobble. If you use fsmash and you mess up, it's a free reset for snake. If you usmash, you MIGHT kill them if they don't expect to eat a full charge usmash, but also you're underneath them and can still juggle them at that point.

2:51 - the Combo Video

Stop trying to throw back every single nade. You have to pick the correct ones. By throwing back the first nade every time, you got stripped, which got you naded, which gave him stage control. Which got you killed.

 

[2-DJeff]

It's hard to agree with something if you hadn't said it before hand. The only thing you've said in critique of my match vs. Kid Goggles is that ESAM mashes quickly. The fact that the top Pikachu in the nation is a fast masher is vital info to know in the Sonic Matchup.

Reserved for Long Post Critiquing LEA

go read my previous post and tell me i didnt say that

 

[DeLux]

go read my previous post and tell me i didnt say that

lol my bad, didn't see the edit to that post. will read it over now

 

[2-DJeff]

lol my bad, didn't see the edit to that post. will read it over now

Im so hurt now lux its like i dont matter to you Q.Q lol jk

 

[DeLux]

I agree that I played too aggro if it were tournament set. Especially when he started baiting the grab setup to get me to grab so he could punish with separation.

I think in the future what I'm going to do is run an LD1 setup and go to IB camping to limit his options but not risk the separation. Or even just Nana IB Wall along the floor and have Popo free to pivot grab.

Outside of that, I need to work on reading the setup and punishing either the counter jump or grabbing with the setup.

 

[AllyKnight]

Exactly. I've played fast mashers a ton, and I'm thankful for it because it wins me tournament sets lol. I grabbed ally's mk at 0% last stock at pound and chaingrabbed him 0-death with him mashing as fast as possible.

A lot of people that play regularly with me now don't even mash lol.

I dont smash as fast as I used to =l + I was cold shivering vs you. Morning johns.

In a serious note, I think I'm just going to quit playing MK vs ICS. I dont seem to be patient enough anymore and I get grabbed way more + I can't even gimp nana anymore. Lain kinda owned my MK at today's tourney.

 

[DeLux]

Why not just play ICs vs. ICs and use your superior player reading ability to beat us?

That's what the ditto is all about. The gimmicks mean nothing lol

 

[EverAlert]

Hey Lux, just wanted to thank you for the crit of that game, it was very insightful. Judging by the reactions of Mr. Vetere & Friends, I can only imagine what pain you went through watching it.

Looking forward to more, assuming more is actually on the way. I'm happy to be a masochist all week.

 

[Hylian]

I dont smash as fast as I used to =l + I was cold shivering vs you. Morning johns.

In a serious note, I think I'm just going to quit playing MK vs ICS. I dont seem to be patient enough anymore and I get grabbed way more + I can't even gimp nana anymore. Lain kinda owned my MK at today's tourney.

Damn, there goes my shot at beating you at whobo lol. Seriously though, IC's vs MK is even, snake is much easier to use against them even though it's about evenish because the IC has to play a lot more technical against snake and the snake CG is a lot harder. A lot of IC's hate the mk match-up though so you are probably fine using mk against most of the IC's.

 

[Exceladon City]

I need to learn that MU. I have very minimal MK exp. >.>
I just try to bait them into doing dumb nados; that's how bad I am at fighting MK.

 

[DeLux]

I don't know the wolf matchup well enough to provide any commentary to that video. Someone who knows the wolf matchup should do that instead of me.

I don't know the Wario matchup well enough either. Except I noticed the whole time you didn't pivot grab. At the very least, flashing a pivot grab will make it so he can't play as aggro as he did. He'll have to be wary of it which means he'll have to start baiting for it instead of just overwhelming you. By doing that, you make him slow down, which effectively gives you more time and space to setup the desync and stage control game. Or even a DSC style game. He was playing so aggro that he could punish even a simple dash.

In match two, fthrows got you mashed. Dthrows are the superior string, I swear. But you just took the lead with only 4% taken. This is not a good time to go aggro on Wario. You did a great job using platforms to stifle is aerial approaches on the first stock. But then you decided to play aggro. You should have just kept spacing underneath the platform instead of coming out from under it. You gave him so many more options, one of which got you separated. And then you lost the stock. You could have saved Nana though, by squalling instead of Belaying I'm pretty sure. At low percents of Sopo, you really ought to try punishing things with Jab. Save punishing with Fsmash at kill percents.

On his stock 3's first grab, down throw let's you not get mashed, which in theory gets you the win. You are still playing way to aggro when you have the lead. Gotta just wall under the platform and wait to PG. Don't Dair SD when you're on your last stock. It never works.

 

[2-DJeff]

could you upload a vid for me today lux?

 

[DeLux]

I don't know how to do that. If I did, I could.

 

[2-DJeff]

I don't know how to do that. If I did, I could.

lol w.e. i mean replay. could you records a replay for me lol

 

[DeLux]

I know what you meant. I haven't ever done it before. I've been told it's easy. I just don't know how.

 

[Roller]

@EA, Lux hit the nail on the head with the pivot grabbing suggestion. You can pivot grab anything wario can throw at you. He literally can't hit you without you falling for bait.

Your approach to the mu was way too aggro. He kept getting hits on you because you would smash or squall at him or something, and he would just hit you in response. And once Wario hits you he can just **** nana if he knows what he's doing. You also need to be especially careful if he has a fart. One careless move and you (or at least nana) are dead. My approach to the matchup is to sit there and wait until he comes to me. If he comes to high, I go for Uairs, if he tries to actually approach within range of touching me (they will usually do this with a low aerial, prob dair) I pivotgrab.

These matches tend to take a while though. My last 3 games in tourney vs warios have all been timeouts in my favor. Just play very patiently and wait for your opportunity. If you hit them with enough uairs, they'll get impatient and do something dumb eventually.

EDIT: From now on. I'm just putting "default pivotgrab comment" because I feel like I say the same thing every time. It's just too good not to use.

 

[lain]

bout to have some sexy vids vs tyrant+ally, although some of the matches I'm MK

 

[Myollnir]

Hi everyone!
I have other matches of me! This time, I made 2 Bo5 with a friend.
I'll be glad if you give me some advice!

Sorry for the quality, we could not upload the video.

First Bo5 :
Match 1 : ICs - Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeupAA4CBQk&feature=related

Match 2 : ICs - MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gIeo95HbW0&feature=related

Match 3&4 : I played MK so we don't care

Second Bo5 :
Match 1 : ICs - MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHvW4o5bsvM&feature=related

Match 2,3&4 : Not on youtube yet. I'll edit my post later.

Thank you!

 

[da K.I.D.]

im super late but i came cus lux invited me.

Ill just say a few small things.
1. over in the sonic boards, we actually have a picture of a bear in outer space that we use instead of just saying 'Space Bairs' all the time.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/YZBoVhZS2cu9xn5dsFzXiJEr_400.jpg

you should get something like that, so even if you do have to say 'pivot grab more' you can have some fun with it.

2. I taught this kid pikax2 how to mash.
2a. he doesnt use k primes control scheme to mash grabs. only thing he has is i think tap jump off.

3. what in the world is LD1 and LD2

4. why is it that i got recorded playing against every single IC main at that stupid tournament? fk this character.

5. why does it feel like the better you are as an Ic player the worse your CGs are? in terms of player skill, roller seemed like the least of the 4 I played at pound, yet he stomped me out the hardest because he dropped the least amount of grabs. wtf?

6. oh yea, i didnt play cheese, but he won the most money at that tourney, so he doesnt get the satisfaction of being able to say (even trollingly) that hes better than hylian.

7. once again, fk this character, and its def. sonics worst matchup.

 

[Roller]

I find it funny that I was best with cg's. Considering I only have an hdtv so I never practice them, and I never play against sonics...

 

[2-DJeff]

I find it funny that I was best with cg's. Considering I only have an hdtv so I never practice them, and I never play against sonics...

where not japanese lol

 

[ch33s3]

I find it funny that I was best with cg's. Considering I only have an hdtv so I never practice them, and I never play against sonics...

I only dropped a few CGs all tourney, including am bracket. SOIGUD@CGZ

 

[da K.I.D.]

why aint you get outta pools then, mr. Idontdropgrabs? hmmm?

 

[ch33s3]

why aint you get outta pools then, mr. Idontdropgrabs? hmmm?

Because $261 was very attractive.

 

[Hylian]

Because $261 was very attractive.

LOL whatever, you didn't lose pools on purpose at all.

 

[r3d d09]

Hylian is right.

 

[2-DJeff]

Because $261 was very attractive.

and $1000+ wasnt looking attractive at all in regular bracket? lol

 

[r3d d09]

... atleast he got his money * drum drum cymbal *

 

[2-DJeff]

... atleast he got his money * drum drum cymbal *

thats good but if hes putting it in terms of attraction im sure the 1000+ was the way to go lol

 

[Smoom77]

He knew he wasn't gonna win main bracket (no offense cheese), so why not go for some money?

 

[Sieguest]

LOL whatever, you didn't lose pools on purpose at all.

It's all a part of the mindgames bro. Cheese had this whole thing planned out.

HE KNEW!

 

[2-DJeff]

He knew he wasn't gonna win main bracket (no offense cheese), so why not go for some money?

i know just giving him a hard time