The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread

[Hylian]

Wish my matches vs ally were saved .

 

[DeLux]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298160

There are quite a few videos of Cheese, Roller, Lain, and Hylian in there. I don't think there are any of mine because my climbers are so bad it's not worth critiquing.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't think there are any of mine because my climbers are so bad it's not worth critiquing.

This statement is counter-intuitive.

If they really were THAT bad, then I would think they would be recorded for heavy critiquing. o.o

Don't be hiding those vids boy, bring'em out.

 

[DeLux]

Well I meant that I was so bad that nobody wanted to bother recording sets with me.

 

[Roller]

It's true. I heard all the people at the recording setups tell each other to stop recording when Lux came by. There was actually an official announcement made on the mic, after someone almost saved a replay for a doubles match with Lux in it. Don't worry, I reminded them not to in time.

Don't feel too bad though. His ICs really are awful. You wouldn't want to see him. Like. He couldn't desynch at all and I heard he lost a friendly this weekend. lolwholosesfriendlies

amirite?

 

[Sieguest]

Oh dang. I guess it is good that none of his stuff got recorded. Sheesh Lux, how could you lose a friendly!?

Disgracin'

 

[DeLux]

Uhhhhhh on the contrary, I desynced WAYYYY too much while playing.

Assuming you consider Nana getting whacked across the field while I watched helplessly from below being desynced.

Getting hit hard is the easiest desync in the world. True story.

 

[Sieguest]

Oh gosh, you came in all serious too. >.< At least you learned something while you were there right?

And seriously, were none of your sets actually recoreded? O.o

 

[DeLux]

No. Unless it was a peach or Wario player, most of the people came up to me, had no idea who the hell I was, asked to play.

I ran the gameplan, executed, won. They asked, "who the hell are you?"

I said that I was ranked like 20th in KS. They got mad.

More or less the story.

 

[00-Zero]

20th? Were you trolling them?

 

[Roller]

20th? Were you trolling them?

What a silly question...






































...As if 20 people even live in Kansas.

 

[Exceladon City]

LOL @ Roller. Implying that Kansas is inhabited by more than 10 people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0kv9PM5r-M&feature=feedu
Critique 'em *****es.

I was a little off on the 2nd match.

 

[DeLux]

Ha, trolling.

I wasn't. Until recently, I was ranked 27th. I think I'm ranked 12th, but that's going to go up if I'm not mistaken because of my 13 game in tournament skid I was on.


Don't listen to any of my advice

But seriously:

You can start the match desynced by holding whatever input you want (ie IB or blizzard) as it yells "GO!". You gave up ground because you had to SND to redesync

You let the Olimar control the space at the beginning. AND you dropped blizzard wall. If the olimar knew the matchup, he would have started spamming grab, until you tried to inevitably use squall which he can usmash you out of. Fortunately he didn't know so you grabbed him out of squall

If you want to kill at lower percents, you need to space your bthrow on the early regrab frame window. Which leaves you free to then buffer your Fthrow, THEN half charge an usmash. That way they can't mash during pummel animation when the charge is inputted.

Good read on the fact that he was out of Pikmin for the kill.

When you grabbed him on the beginning of stock two, solo dthrow for the win.

At 2:40 when he was out of pikmin, you backed off for some reason. Don't do that. Know that no pikmin means death for olimar. Use that. Same thing a few more times when he had no pikmin.

It didn't matter in this match, but you'll want to add the dthrow dthrow CG starter to prevent mashing pretty soon.

You need to put Popo into throw animation in order to safely charge a nana kill.

Round 2, you need to IB chase Diddy early. This lets you control the space and forces him to be unsafe if he wants a banana pulled.

You can't spike with popo at the edge of a platform. If Nana grabs at the edge, you should learn a Nana bthrow transfer. The easiest for me is NBthrow > Popo Dash Dance > Popo PG

If you have time, you should DSG trips and then make a read OoS. If you have more time, you should do a DSG AND IB chaser and make a read out of that. The former limits every option but getup grab. The latter limits every option. At the least you wouldn't have eaten the getup attack.

Imo, the best position you can be in for the Diddy matchup is with him banana less, you having a banana in hand, with an IB chaser behind you covering approach. You chuck the Banana going in and watch as they have to deal with 3 things limiting their options.

AND I SAW THAT LD1 OOS AT LIKE 9:48
doing that thing I taught you

 

[r3d d09]

lux basically said it all. also, pivot grab, you could have had so many grabs if you were to do it. your tempo on your BF cg on oli started to slow down. stick to the same tempo, then it becomes muscle memory.

 

[ch33s3]

Hylian, please critique me v Shugo. I won and all, but only because of an absurd read on the last stock. I don't like close matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWMsDZ831Q

Other input is, of course, welcome.

 

[toobusytocare]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEyt3iY2EQc&feature=channel_video_title


for the record I had a fever of 102 and a massive headache throughout the whole tourney

but yeah, Cheese will porbably enjoy how gay I played, or something

also i can;t desync. I dont play ICs

 

[Hylian]

I'll critique when i get home.

 

[Smoom77]

Cheese:

1:00- against MK, when Popo is squalling by himself, have nana jump and reverse blizzard. it catches them off guard almost every time.
1:10-don't punish with upsmash (i bet you knew that, just instinct).
1:50ish- don't go in for uairs until Nana is synced with you. you're lucky he didn't give nana a bunch of damage.
1:53-don't spotdodge...just shield and grab.
2:00-...kill him...
2:03-i don't know why you went offstage...don't do that please.
2:16-squall? why?
2:29- no dair please.
2:40-why fair? why not like an fsmash? It'd be fresh by the time you wanna kill.
3:18-don't AD towards him. I do that ALL the time as sopo, and you basically get grabbed every single time.
4:27-no grab?
4:53- why bair?
5:11- you're dairing towards him after you hit him out of nado...?

I can critique the other matches later. I need to do other stuff

 

[ch33s3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEyt3iY2EQc&feature=channel_video_title


for the record I had a fever of 102 and a massive headache throughout the whole tourney

but yeah, Cheese will porbably enjoy how gay I played, or something

also i can;t desync. I dont play ICs

You need to react SO much faster to kirby stuff, everything he does is grabbable and you let him get away with it.

 

[toobusytocare]

Like I said
I was rediculously sick and playing super ****ty, although i did take felix to last game/stock with ICs

i grabbed him last game last stock but silly nana had to go and trip
then i grabbed again and got messed up by the YI slant

ah well

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, please critique me v Shugo. I won and all, but only because of an absurd read on the last stock. I don't like close matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWMsDZ831Q

Other input is, of course, welcome.

I started off just writing a bunch of stuff but realized it probably wouldn't help you much because we play the match-up a lot differently. So I'm just going to post my thoughts on what would help your style of play in the match-up after each match.

Match one:

Just a few things. Don't sh uair as much when mk is just sitting on the platform, try and do it more when he jumps or when he is landing. If he's already there just scare him into jumping without actually committing to anything. When you do get the opportunity to punish him landing on the bottom platforms, try to almost always use nair instead of uairs at low to mid%. This can get you a ton of grabs, even if they shield it if they are near the edge you can ice block reset them into a grab. Start your uair pressuring when they are on the top platform after shuttle looping(you did this fine) or at mid-high% when they are on the lower platforms. You reacted to tornado well enough, though you can punish his landings a little better, but you usually had the % lead and nothing wrong with being safe.

Basically just try to sh uair them at low %'s less on that platform and go for more nairs. Even at mid% without a platform fast falled nairs combo into grab(so does bair, but it's weird to explain lol). Don't overextend yourself as much, if you do uair them at 0%, make sure you aren't going to jump over them if you follow up, the best thing to do is normally fast fall airdodge back to the ground at really low %'s.

Match 2:

When you are in the air with mk and use squall to avoid him, you need to either go the opposite direction of him, or hit him, otherwise he will almost always punish you.

You are putting yourself in bad positions a lot this match by overcommiting to things.

Match 3:

You start out overcommiting way too much. If they airdodge your uair and you frame trapped them use nair over bair.

Sopo tip: Stay on the ground more and just walk around a lot. People will attack you and you can just grab them a ton or poke at them if they are jumping above you. Play slower with sopo you get too aggressive.

Uhh..overall I would say learn to use desynching defensively better, you mainly used it to approach the rare times you did. Other than that and the things I pointed out good job.

 

[ch33s3]

Critiquey stuff.

Thanks. I've been trying to work a bit more techy stuff into my game (though it probably doesn't show in this set, I was SO nervous lol), I've been working a lot on my tech game. I'm going to use nair a lot more. If you have any specific stuff let me know .

 

[DeLux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5lOmmP5iw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIMJGWK5v8

This is a friendly set I played after Pound 5. If you decide to critique it, please don't say "pivot grab everything Sonic does." I specifically played that matchup with the intent of testing the speed of LD1 desync game against the speed of Sonic. Playing at that speed noticeably affected my consistency in execution, but based on the evidence, I feel like it shows an alternative to playing the Sonic matchup that isn't dependent on the opponent Sonic Approaching. Or at the very least, shows that certain grab setups using the new desyncs are possible where we previously wouldn't have been able to grab setup.

Also, Goggles is by far the fastest masher I've played. He grab broke during the incidental pummel animation caused by charging usmash despite me trying to buffer Fthrow on the pummel IASA frame. I have since amended that aspect of my gameplay by fthrowing first and THEN charging Usmash, eliminating the chance of grab breaking.

Things I need to work on:

- NOT over committing on a setup and getting baited for a grab
- Consistency on LD1 execution to continually limit options
- Safer and less predictable guard breaking tactics

 

[2-DJeff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5lOmmP5iw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIMJGWK5v8

This is a friendly set I played after Pound 5. If you decide to critique it, please don't say "pivot grab everything Sonic does." I specifically played that matchup with the intent of testing the speed of LD1 desync game against the speed of Sonic. Playing at that speed noticeably affected my consistency in execution, but based on the evidence, I feel like it shows an alternative to playing the Sonic matchup that isn't dependent on the opponent Sonic Approaching. Or at the very least, shows that certain grab setups using the new desyncs are possible where we previously wouldn't have been able to grab setup.

Also, Goggles is by far the fastest masher I've played. He grab broke during the incidental pummel animation caused by charging usmash despite me trying to buffer Fthrow on the pummel IASA frame. I have since amended that aspect of my gameplay by fthrowing first and THEN charging Usmash, eliminating the chance of grab breaking.

Things I need to work on:

- NOT over committing on a setup and getting baited for a grab
- Consistency on LD1 execution to continually limit options
- Safer and less predictable guard breaking tactics

esam is a faster masher ive played googles alot on wifi and it runs smooth. esam is faster

 

[DeLux]

Should have mashed faster against Ally?

Good critique though 2DJeff. I'll apply that to my game.

 

[2-DJeff]

Should have mashed faster against Ally?
Good critique though 2DJeff. I'll apply that to my game.

yea in all honestly i think esam just got scared against ally ic so he didnt mash ast fast. wanna see proof of how fast esam mashes against me? he broke out a fluent CG against me lol ill critique your matches real fast though lol so you can stog trolling me lol

 

[DeLux]

If he broke out of a CG against you that wasn't during the beginning transfer or the end kill, that's indicative more that you're CGing incorrectly than his mashing speed :\

 

[2-DJeff]

If he broke out of a CG against you that wasn't during the beginning transfer or the end kill, that's indicative more that you're CGing incorrectly than his mashing speed :\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnm7b3FkLl0
@2:07
and if kidd was a better masher he woulda mashed your charge upsmash at 107%. esam mashes that
and btw if u dont believe me MM esam your self. and every1 thats going to COT5 if you wanna MM me let me know ill MM all IC in here im possibly going

For your games i watch them well not all of 2 because you keep doing the same thing. If you have the lead. DO NOT and i mean DO NOT approach sonic. thats why he started to comeback on you. Just shield and wait for grab opportunity's. Other than that just dont drop your CG. O and try back throw to forward throw might be easier for sonics weight class. it is for me

 

[DeLux]

Frame data doesn't lie dude

Just saying


Please see the G. Fang Chart of 24MB awesomeness for proof that I'm right

 

[Hylian]

ESAM mashes about as fast as you can mash. From people I've played Ally/Dphat/Esam/pikapika mashed the fastest.

Still won't get you out of buffered grabs though.

 

[2-DJeff]

ESAM mashes about as fast as you can mash. From people I've played Ally/Dphat/Esam/pikapika mashed the fastest.

Still won't get you out of buffered grabs though.

reflex mashes like that too.
the *****s name is reflex lmao
and dosnt pika pika use the dpad thing? that you have to play claw in order to do?

@lux just MM him and see for your self

 

[Roller]

Goggles isn't that great of a masher. He could have definitely gotten out of a few of my grabs here for instance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7C3GuKDUPQ

I'll watch it all and give my 2 cents later. But even though you said not to say it. You really should just pivotgrab everything. Like. You can force his approach with projectiles, and if you just wait for it the matchup is free imo. Your new ICs have a lot of potential, but in this particular mu, I think they are unnecessary. Oldschool method is simple and effective. But I'll give better analysis for YOUR ICs probably tomorrow.

Also, PikaPika is the fastest masher I've played btw.

 

[r3d d09]

um, it's hard for me to critique vids. so i'm just going to say things to look out for with sonic.

Sonic mains all do stuff in a pattern. It's insanely hard to pick up on, they usually start doing it when they're under pressure or "in the heat of battle". I saw this with X. and once you know what they do. take advantage of it. Sometimes it'd take me over a few minutes to get him to do it, but usually it was an ensured grab.

blizz wall is good, but don't over use it. tilts are good against him.

like i always say, pivot grab against sonic is beast mode.

when they're on the ledge. SND is pretty good, if they try to punish you with a fair or nair, you can land a fsmash on them. it's a little give and take.

if you're in a bad spot on fd while chaingrabbing. I would dthrow, miss the grab intentionally. they usually react by springing out of it, predict where they're going and get another grab, or ledge guard them.

if you're attempting to fair spike them, follow up with falling off and bairing and having nana or yourself grabbing the ledge, if he gets on the stage, just get the grab.

a lot of this has to do with the style of sonic you play and what not.

get to know your players. which is obvious. if you know what makes them tick, do it. bug them mentally if you know what bothers them. this has won me multiple games. anything that can get you that advantage, use it.

EX.
Out of state, i found out some players hated when i'd tap my foot because it vibrated the floor. So i used it against them.

use psychological factors guys, it makes a massive impact.

-Travv

 

[Sieguest]

Frame data doesn't lie dude

Just saying


Please see the G. Fang Chart of 24MB awesomeness for proof that I'm right

It's a 24MB refund. Which means the file is actually only 17 MB
/selfplug

@lux just MM him and see for your self

Thing about it is, you could have everyone MM in the world to try and prove your point, but it'll just show that they aren't CGing in the most efficient way either. When CGing Pika you actually have some frames for spacing correction if you're doing it "right".

 

[ch33s3]

Mash Speed Tier List:

God Tier:
Reflex

High Tier:
ESAM
Pikapika
Diem
Me

Mid Tier:
Who cares this is too slow to break anything.

 

[2-DJeff]

It's a 24MB refund. Which means the file is actually only 17 MB
/selfplug



Thing about it is, you could have everyone MM in the world to try and prove your point, but it'll just show that they aren't CGing in the most efficient way either. When CGing Pika you actually have some frames for spacing correction if you're doing it "right".

true but tell him to be sonic just to mash a grab and you guys will agree with me. I think hylian knows that esam is a better masher also. Im not saying goggles is a bad masher im just telling lux wait until he fights esam.

 

[PikaPika!]

It really doesn't matter how good of a masher you are if they just buffer the cg

 

[Hylian]

It really doesn't matter how good of a masher you are if they just buffer the cg

Exactly. I've played fast mashers a ton, and I'm thankful for it because it wins me tournament sets lol. I grabbed ally's mk at 0% last stock at pound and chaingrabbed him 0-death with him mashing as fast as possible.

A lot of people that play regularly with me now don't even mash lol.

 

[2-DJeff]

Mash Speed Tier List:

God Tier:
Reflex

High Tier:
ESAM
Pikapika
Diem
Me

Mid Tier:
Who cares this is too slow to break anything.

i approve of this tier list

Exactly. I've played fast mashers a ton, and I'm thankful for it because it wins me tournament sets lol. I grabbed ally's mk at 0% last stock at pound and chaingrabbed him 0-death with him mashing as fast as possible.

A lot of people that play regularly with me now don't even mash lol.

yea same here but esam still mashes so i have to stay on point

 

[PikaPika!]

The only times I find mashing to be useful is when nana isnt in position, if the icies tries to take his time with the cg, or sometimes when they try and charge a smash attack.