The Official Ice Climbers' Video Thread

[kackamee]

Kakera is funner to watch. I'd say they are both around the same lvl though, they just have like the 2 main different ways of playing ICs

 

[DeLux]

Out of curiosity, who wins more between the two of them? I don't mean against each other, but in terms of overall tournament success.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Well, its really hard to say, but 9B overall. He's in West japan, which is alot more active than the area Kakera is from.

 

[Ohmu]

I've never seen you do the buffered dthrow until they can't mash out till dthrow like he does though. I've been telling people to do this foreverrr and he is the first person aside from myself that I've seen cg like that.

What do you mean? I've just been starting to learn the Ice Climbers, so I'm trying to soak in all the advice I can. Do you mean that he starts his chainthrow with dthrows when his opponent is at a low percent, to rack up damage before switching to a slower (more easily broken) chaingrab?

 

[ch33s3]

What do you mean? I've just been starting to learn the Ice Climbers, so I'm trying to soak in all the advice I can. Do you mean that he starts his chainthrow with dthrows when his opponent is at a low percent, to rack up damage before switching to a slower (more easily broken) chaingrab?

Yes.

10simplequestions

 

[Rockstar]

Here's Fino (Olimar) vs Lux (Ice Climbers) Tournament match. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNvUA3kwfI

 

[DeLux]

Self Critique:

Stop Running into everything.
Don't do that.
Do that thing I taught you.

Win

Please don't waste your time critiquing this video. It's beyond saving.

Spoiler

I mean this sincerely and not to sound arrogant, but any critique won't really help me because I'm using a completely revamped style of play since that video was recorded.

 

[2-DJeff]

Here's Fino (Olimar) vs Lux (Ice Climbers) Tournament match. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNvUA3kwfI

lux you gotta keep that blizzard wall going and when i say blizzard wall i mean desync blizzard wall. olimar cant fight it and when you get close enough to him for it to hit do the blizzard where nana is blizzarding him and popo is free because if nanas blizzard touches him its a free grab.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Get it on--

kismet2 vs. elev8

kismet2 vs. elev8 1
kismet2 vs. elev8 2​

 

[Rubberbandman]

lux you gotta keep that blizzard wall going and when i say blizzard wall i mean desync blizzard wall. olimar cant fight it and when you get close enough to him for it to hit do the blizzard where nana is blizzarding him and popo is free because if nanas blizzard touches him its a free grab.

He knows, as he said, its an old match (in terms of playstyle) for him.

[1/30/2011 10:11:54 PM] [Wht] DSG: Yes, I got *****
[1/30/2011 10:11:58 PM] [Wht] DSG: I know I ran into everything
[1/30/2011 10:12:20 PM] [Wht] DSG: in my defense, I am better now lol
[1/30/2011 10:12:30 PM] [Wht] DSG: aka two stock rich brown
[1/30/2011 10:12:33 PM] [Wht] DSG: better

 

[Ohmu]

I've never seen you do the buffered dthrow until they can't mash out till dthrow like he does though.

Do you mean that he starts his chainthrow with dthrows when his opponent is at a low percent, to rack up damage before switching to a slower (more easily broken) chaingrab?

Yes.

Why are buffered dthrows better at quickly getting your opponent up to a safe percent than the standard popo-dthrow nana-fair?

 

[-LzR-]

popo dthrow nana fair I think just sucks too much to be used seriously. And fair is too slow for buffer against lighter chars. I maybe wrong too =/

 

[B0NK]

^^^Pretty much this

While d-throw/f-throw f-air can be used, it's a CG that can be influenced by DI, SDI, and can be shacked out of during Nana's lag of the f-air.

D-throw CGs don't have to worry about any of these things.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, it's funny thing with IC, many CG do work, but why use them when we can have guaranteed ones?

EDIT: Also, here is my video. Please critique it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH5VMYksXEs

 

[DeLux]

He knows, as he said, its an old match (in terms of playstyle) for him.

[1/30/2011 10:11:54 PM] [Wht] DSG: Yes, I got *****
[1/30/2011 10:11:58 PM] [Wht] DSG: I know I ran into everything
[1/30/2011 10:12:20 PM] [Wht] DSG: in my defense, I am better now lol
[1/30/2011 10:12:30 PM] [Wht] DSG: aka two stock rich brown
[1/30/2011 10:12:33 PM] [Wht] DSG: better

For the record, if RB name searches, he and I split on sets, but he won our MM 2-1. I got nervous when I was winning and started dropping the CGs repeatedly. Was talking to someone and they called it 'the Rich Brown Factor' where he's actually UNCGable past 40% on stock 3. I'm sure there are other reasons why I lost, but we forgot to record those sets so I can't have you guys critique. Losing sets are more valuable for me to have analyzed than winning sets.

We played a few more games the next day, one olimar two snake where I took that 2-1 (1 olimar and 1 snake win. This was a particularly good oli win because it was on a non IC cp level for me). But yeah he's as legit as you'd think and is as good if not better than I thought.

Getting a cap card soon so I'll be able to post legit vids lol

 

[EverAlert]

Why are buffered dthrows better at quickly getting your opponent up to a safe percent than the standard popo-dthrow nana-fair?

because fthrow fair is a pile of ****.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Especially because your opponent can SDI and land BEHIND YOU. So yeah, waste of ****ing time.

 

[Ohmu]

^^^ Thanks for the tips :-)

Sorry to keep asking nooby questions, but... on medium and heavyweights I can definitely see why it would be best to start up your chaingrab with buffered dthrows if they're at low percent. But is this also necessary on light characters at very low percents, or is the bthrow-dthrow chain fast enough to be dependable then, no matter what their percent? (I'm just trying to commit the minimum necessary amount of chaingrabs to muscle memory, thanks ~)

 

[Sieguest]

^^^ Thanks for the tips :-)

Sorry to keep asking nooby questions, but... on medium and heavyweights I can definitely see why it would be best to start up your chaingrab with buffered dthrows if they're at low percent. But is this also necessary on light characters at very low percents, or is the bthrow-dthrow chain fast enough to be dependable then, no matter what their percent? (I'm just trying to commit the minimum necessary amount of chaingrabs to muscle memory, thanks ~)

It's most convenient to start your CGs with dthrow, but there isn't much of a problem with starting them with fthrow.
As a general rule you should never start your CGs with bthrow, unless the opponent is at a high percent.

 

[DeLux]

It's most convenient to start your CGs with dthrow, but there isn't much of a problem with starting them with fthrow.
As a general rule you should never start your CGs with bthrow, unless the opponent is at a high percent.

Fixed for consistency. Spacing becomes an issue on bthrow for certain characters on high percents, especially when there isn't a dthrow to act as control for fixing spacing.

Also, if you remove the need to think from situation to situation, it helps remain consistent. Just start with dthrow every time until you're at the percent where the free climber will kill

Spoiler

I've gotten mashed out of in tournament when I thought they were at high enough percent and got lazy waiting for that bthrow.

 

[Sieguest]

Fixed for consistencynah mang there's nothing to fix. (reasons below). Spacing becomes an issue on bthrow for certain characters on high percents, especially when there isn't a dthrow to act as control for fixing spacing.

I don't really follow this here. Considering that you're going to use bthrow to start the CG from a grab, would the spacing not be relatively the same at any percent? I do understand that correct spacing is more crucial at higher percents, but the distance for optimal spacing after the initial grab seems small.

Also, if you remove the need to think from situation to situation, it helps remain consistent. Just start with dthrow every time until you're at the percent where the free climber will kill

I'm iffy on this, I would never really advocate "going on autopilot" when it comes to CGing, but eh.

Spoiler

I've gotten mashed out of in tournament when I thought they were at high enough percent and got lazy waiting for that bthrow.

What is thought and what actually is are two different things. There is a point when bthrow could be used to start a CG, but it's at a high percent. (Thought what one would consider "high" is up to interpretation.) But I digress, methinks by the time bthrow becomes viable to start with, you could just KO the opponent if not be pretty close.

 

[DeLux]

You can space for bthrow by walking forward while grabbing a dthrow. If you start from a standstill, you start from a neutral position rather than with the secondary climber behind you as with a dthrow. The secondary climber being behind you allows for the spaced needed during the frames of movement before the secondary climber actually grabs. This effect is especially pronounced on Snake and the EB kids even at low percents, which is why people constantly complain they are "hard to cg".

TLDR: It is more difficult and less lenient to space cgs straight from a standstill than out of a dthrow transition. Therefore one should dthrow transition. The rule of thumb would be the heavier they are, the more this is needed (except for Jigglypuff who also needs it)

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks for the tips Lux! That definitely explains a lot to me.

Any chance someone would critique my video... I wanna become da bess...

 

[DeLux]

Thanks for the tips Lux! That definitely explains a lot to me.

Any chance someone would critique my video... I wanna become da bess...

At the beginning of the match, just platform drop instead of being cute with a starting desync. If he had FF clapped after that fair, you would have started set 1 in a lot of trouble.

You would actually benefit by CGing faster. Ironically, it's like a bell curve where going too slow makes it hard and going too fast makes it hard. You are on the border of too slow. Use Bthrow Dthrow instead of Bthrow Fthrow via Guest chart logic.

When Sopo, don't belay early at 2:10. There was no reason you couldn't have tried to fish out some more percentage to build a lead. Belaying early undermined that.

As ironic as it sounds, in this matchup, you were being impatient with your aerial game. He was baiting you to full hop uair to get you off the ground so he could get in and rack up damage. Especially early, stay patient and don't take the bait.

When you belayed at the top part of RC, you could have squalled to save both the climbers instead of just one. You'd be surprised how high squall goes.

Found out the hard way, but you can't CG on the fully tilted pendulum platform lol

Mistake made: You counterpicked Pictochat. Platforms are actually pretty good for this matchup against this person because he hasn't been spacing Dair really well. You might have been able to get free grabs by using platforms if he accidentally Dair bombs into the ground without auto cancelling.

You shouldn't have tried to get rid of the bike for him when you picked it up. Just leave it there. It limits his options in recovery and evasion by a lot.

The edges on picto are hard to CG on. If it were me and I grabbed at 114% on the edge, instead of Trying to CG, I would have done a Nana Charge Fsmash to Popo Bthrow for the kill attempt.

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks Lux, I can sort of buffer that CG, but don't feel to be good enough to use it seriously yet.

Also, I hate the bthrow to dthrow one. Why would it be better?

Anyways, having a rematch tomorrow, so I'll try to fix those mistakes.

 

[Sieguest]

You can space for bthrow by walking forward while grabbing a dthrow. If you start from a standstill, you start from a neutral position rather than with the secondary climber behind you as with a dthrow. The secondary climber being behind you allows for the spaced needed during the frames of movement before the secondary climber actually grabs. This effect is especially pronounced on Snake and the EB kids even at low percents, which is why people constantly complain they are "hard to cg".

Methinks you would have frames for frame correction if you ever get to the point of starting a CG with bthrow. x.x

But eh, it's not worth carrying further, in general terms of what is most efficient I agree that it is better to start with dthrow. (I should know. X_X)

TLDR: It is more difficult and less lenient to space cgs straight from a standstill than out of a dthrow transition. Therefore one should dthrow transition. The rule of thumb would be the heavier they are, the more this is needed (except for Jigglypuff who also needs it)

Why would you TLDR something that is so short?

 

[Exceladon City]

I got some new vidjos. They are all friendlies.

VS. Crash //
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_K5UNh7JUc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzeLlT8WoY8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlxEPQTHFoM&feature=related

VS. Blue Rogue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJpcRm_rCa8&feature=feedu

 

[Roller]

So I only watched the vid vs Blue Rogue so far. Your nana is clutch btw. lol

I saw some fairly easy to fix stuff. Whenever he tries to bike into you, the way he did at the start of the match. It is an incredibly easy pivotgrab opportunity. ALWAYS take advantage of it. You dropped your grabs, so work on your timing vs Wario. At one point you tried to kill with nana while popo had grabbed him. Don't do that. I know it was because you didn't want to risk missing the cg, but in those situations, Dthrow into smash or something. Because what happened to you can happen way too often if popo is holding them and nana tries to finish.

You can pivotgrab any of Wario's aerial approaches as well, including dair. I don't think I saw you try for that at all. Work on incorporating it into your game more. Because pivotgrabs are how I get ~85% of my grabs vs Wario.

Saw some other minor things too, we can talk on skype later. I'll watch the other matches as well, but g2g to class.

And I know I keep telling people to pivotgrab like.. all the time. but it really is crazy good. Especially vs Wario. Just don't get baited. =s

 

[Hylian]

You dont even need to pivot grab bike, you can just shieldgrab it.

 

[ch33s3]

You dont even need to pivot grab bike, you can just shieldgrab it.

You can just standing grab it.

 

[DeLux]

You can just standing grab it.

You can also Dash Grab it.

 

[Hylian]

Well obviously, but the bike does have a hitbox and it's safest and easiest to shield grab it. If they rise the bike you can't grab it, but you can jab -> hitlag desynch grab them off of it.

 

[r3d d09]

Saw you play crash dk. and you were greedy for quite a bit of the game, and you could have landed easy grabs. and your grabs were kinda predictable :/ throw in some pivot grabs.

when i played a dk, i found SND was nice, charging up a Fsmash to when if he advanced, he'd get hit by a fully charged fsmash.

just learn to adapt. you'll get the hang of it.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I am uploading these for Roller to save him some time. He wants to be critiqued :D

vs Lain #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQTyMglJp4

vs Lain #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7eeDsfg4KI

 

[DeLux]

Don't shield buffer when you bthrow > dthrow cg snake. It makes it more mashable and often times hurts spacing.

When you cypher grab released at the end, it cost you the game. You have an infinite, always use it.

I'm garbs at the snake matchup, so that's about all I can really give in terms of critique :/

 

[Roller]

Thanks, I'm so used to shield buffering, I forgot I didn't have to vs him. D=

As for the cypher thing. I had thought if the snake had a C4 out already they were unable to explode it, drop another, and explode that one before dying. At least that's how it had always worked for me in the past. I'll be sure not to make that particular mistake again.

 

[2-DJeff]

any advice on beating IKE? like i can grab any other ike ushally but not ryo

 

[-LzR-]

Don't grab em if you can't. If you try to force a grab against Ike, you gonna taste some sword.

 

[Roller]

That matchup is actually fairly tough if you don't have your powershielding on point.

I really get most of my grabs vs him by psing. Other than that, make sure you space really well, and I usually wont desynch vs him when in close. He gets that one little nick on nana with a spaced fair or something, and bad things happen.

 

[2-DJeff]

i usually try to dodge his fair and grab but his fair isn't like marths at all. So its tough Ryo beats me but its not wreck unless he gets a hold of my Nana