The Official Geno Thread

[PsychoIncarnate]

Square would care just about as much as Sega would care if Sakurai chose Alex Kidd over Sonic.

Which is plenty.

If they're going to have someone in Brawl, they want it to be someone they want to promote.

You really do not understand how this all works. Square didn't want to promote in Brawl, evident on how they didn't approach them.

Sakurai doesn't want to promote Square if they aren't going to approach him and ask him to...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

It wasn't printed in April...so how the hell can it be an April fool joke.

Also, it wasn't in EGM

Dude, you DO realize that their April magazine is printed several months before April?

All magazines do this.

And yes, it was. Just because you didn't find out about it in EGM doesn't change the fact that the people who told you did.

 

[Snakz]

*ignore (i hate this computer...)*

 

[RegalBuster]

1. That was an EGM April Fool's joke.

2. This is also based on the wants of the character's owner. You think Sega would have been happy if Sakurai put in Billy Hatcher instead?

3. If they're going to have a rep. in Brawl, they want an important SE character, not a one-time character. If they say no to a certain character, then that character simply isn't in.

4. Snake and Sonic are pretty much there for the sake of representing Konami and Sega's biggest franchises. Geno does not do that. Sakurai does not have any say in which character Square lets him make playable.

Maybe They could get another character in to be there 3rd party character and that there may be more then 3 third party characters.

 

[Snakz]

1. The copyright in Mario & Luigi for Geno says Square Enix. Not "partially xowned by Nintendo and Square Enix", Nintendo isn't mentioned as having ANY right to Geno's usage.

2. Okay then. Sakurai has literally no ability to just use whomever he pleases from third party candidates. The way you're acting is as if Sakurai has the rights to every character ever made.

3. Rumored DS sequel? Huh. And regardless, you're ignoring two points: First that Sakurai doesn't necessarily want to put Geno in, and second, SE doesn't necessarily want to. If they were to put anyone in, why wouldn't it be to promote a major franchise like Mana or DQ?

1. No one know the real legal status of Geno, but all signs point to Geno being co-owned in a sense that Square created the character, but he belongs in a Mario game. So supposedly if Nintendo wants to use Geno in a Mario game, they can so long as they cite Square as having the rights to Geno (why would Nintendo pay to have Geno show up for 3 seconds in a random Mario game?).

2. So Sakurai has no ability to use any character? huh, i wonder how Sonic got in...

Come on, of course Sakurai has the ability, he may have to ask and go into negotiations, but its not like he has to wait for other companies to be interested in order to put a character in, that's just dumb.

3. Alright, um no, Sakurai has shown interest, it was posted in the Smash Blog about Sakurai's thoughts on characters from the polls. But yea, if Squuare REALLY doesn't want to put Geno in Brawl (which i dont see why not, they're on relatively good terms with Nintendo, it's pretty unlikely they'd say no), then yea, Geno wont be in.

Sorry for late response, f*ckin connection...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Dude, you DO realize that their April magazine is printed several months before April?

All magazines do this.

And yes, it was. Just because you didn't find out about it in EGM doesn't change the fact that the people who told you did.

It was printed in a magazine a month ago...and it wasn't EGM

 

[hotgarbage]

Dude, you DO realize that their April magazine is printed several months before April?

All magazines do this.

And yes, it was. Just because you didn't find out about it in EGM doesn't change the fact that the people who told you did.

It was printed in November in "RPG magazine". Really, where did you get your information?

.....and magazines don't print their articles half a year before the zine comes out


EDIT:

this: http://gonintendo.com/?p=30026

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. No one know the real legal status of Geno, but all signs point to Geno being co-owned in a sense that Square created the character, but he belongs in a Mario game. So supposedly if Nintendo wants to use Geno in a Mario game, they can so long as they cite Square as having the rights to Geno (why would Nintendo pay to have Geno show up for 3 seconds in a random Mario game?).

2. So Sakurai has no ability to use any character? huh, i wonder how Sonic got in...

Come on, of course Sakurai has the ability, he may have to ask and go into negotiations, but its not like he has to wait for other companies to be interested in order to put a character in, that's just dumb.

3. Alright, um no, Sakurai has shown interest, it was posted in the Smash Blog about Sakurai's thoughts on characters from the polls. But yea, if Squuare REALLY doesn't want to put Geno in Brawl (which i dont see why not, they're on relatively good terms with Nintendo, it's pretty unlikely they'd say no), then yea, Geno wont be in.

1. Since when does the fact that the end credits of M&L saying "copyright Square Enix" in relation to Geno not mean "wholly owned by Square Enix"? Nintendo is never mentioned as owning Geno in any way, shape, or form.

2. Yeah, I'm sure he didn't get permission to use Sonic. I'm sure he just decided to use Sonic, and said "if Sega doesn't like it, oh well!" He had to get expressed written permission from Sega if he even wanted to dream about Sonic in Brawl. Are you implying that Sakurai does not need third parties' permissions to use their characters? If SE wants them to use someone instead of Geno, they'll push that person instead.

3. It's a matter of if SE wants someone more important than Geno, not them not wanting Geno.

Maybe They could get another character in to be there 3rd party character and that there may be more then 3 third party characters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What he's talking about is this

2007: A preview for Mushroom Kingdom Hearts, a new game in the Kingdom Hearts series, exclusive to the Wii. The game would star numerous Disney characters as well as exactly 41 characters from Nintendo properties such as Mario, who would be a playable character. As an added joke, the EGM staff did not inform resident Kingdom Hearts fan Bryan "Sporto" Intihar of the article being a joke, causing him to believe it to be true. He didn't learn about this until a subsequent episode of the EGM Live! podcast. This caused him to become very upset and curse out the other staff members who, in turn, made fun of Bryan's "fragile" feelings. The use of the word "fragile" in Intihar's regular chant of "Fragile EAgle" on the Sports Anomaly podcast has its roots with his tirade in response to the "Mushroom Kingdom Hearts" April Fool's Joke.

That's NOT what we are refering to, though that is kinda funny

Maybe I should have used a different way to describe it...


BTW, I was talking about from some RPG magazine a Mario RPG sequel is rumored for the DS

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

It was printed in November in "RPG magazine". Really, where did you get your information?

.....and magazines don't print their articles half a year before the zine comes out

It was printed in a magazine a month ago...and it wasn't EGM

Wow, that's amazing, a little-known magazine is suggesting that SE might make Super Mario RPG DS. They're also suggesting that Camelot's making a new GS game, even when they said that they hadn't started making it yet (that is, they're not even in the conceptual stages of it yet).

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

I repeat, why do people think there is some kind of bad blood between Nintendo and Square-Enix?

Oh, and on the side, people keep talking about representing and such. I don't think the third-party characters are there solely for representing. I think they're there to make this game as great as possible.

 

[Deleted member]

Why would they want to use him so much that they'd personally ask them for the rights to Geno? And I reiterate - why would Square Enix go for Geno instead of someone they actually care about?

Because Sakurai doesn't care whom SE cares about. Sakurai pays attention to what we, the fans, care about and to Sakurai, cares about the fans and what the fans want. The fans want Geno. If SE isn't giving up Geno than SE isn't getting a rep.

 

[Snakz]

1. Since when does the fact that the end credits of M&L saying "copyright Square Enix" in relation to Geno not mean "wholly owned by Square Enix"? Nintendo is never mentioned as owning Geno in any way, shape, or form.

2. Yeah, I'm sure he didn't get permission to use Sonic. I'm sure he just decided to use Sonic, and said "if Sega doesn't like it, oh well!" He had to get expressed written permission from Sega if he even wanted to dream about Sonic in Brawl. Are you implying that Sakurai does not need third parties' permissions to use their characters? If SE wants them to use someone instead of Geno, they'll push that person instead.

3. It's a matter of if SE wants someone more important than Geno, not them not wanting Geno.

1. Of course Nintendo never talks about the legal situations of their characters...Its simply assumed. Nintendo would never pay for use of Geno if they were gonna give him a 3 second appearance.

2. Yes, Sakurai had permission, only after he and Miyamoto confronted Sega about putting Sonic in, but im not about to argue anything more about Sonic in here. I never said Sakurai doesn't need permission, of course he does. But your statement at least to me, was implying that he just sits around waiting for 3rd party characters to be offered to him like Snake was instead of going and asking companies for their permission to use a character.

3. Geno is the most requested SE character and one of the most requested characters, period. Sakurai is not about to ask SE for another character they've made over Geno, and SE can just go, "Nah, we dont want you using that character, how you use this one!", that's not how you conduct that kind of business.

 

[hotgarbage]

Wow, that's amazing, a little-known magazine is suggesting that SE might make Super Mario RPG DS. They're also suggesting that Camelot's making a new GS game, even when they said that they hadn't started making it yet (that is, they're not even in the conceptual stages of it yet).

We're not making a big deal out of it..... a rumor is a rumor after all. In light of everything it is interesting though

 

[RegalBuster]

Because Sakurai doesn't care whom SE cares about. Sakurai pays attention to what we, the fans, care about and to Sakurai, cares about the fans and what the fans want. The fans want Geno. If SE isn't giving up Geno than SE isn't getting a rep.

Exactly and that's what makes sakurai so cool. also a Link to the snitch if your so against Geno then why do you insist on hanging around a topic dedicated to Geno?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't see why Geno is more likely than a Chrono character. People definitely know Crono better than Geno.

Because, unlike Geno, Crono's copyright is spread out all over the place because almost none of the people who created the game still work for Square Enix. They even announced earlier this year that Chrono Trigger wouldn't be coming to the Virtual Console or Playstation Network anytime soon because of it.

 

[DarkVision]

Because, unlike Geno, Crono's copyright is spread out all over the place because almost none of the people who created the game still work for Square Enix. They even announced earlier this year that Chrono Trigger wouldn't be coming to the Virtual Console or Playstation Network anytime soon because of it.

Oh ****, well that's bad news...Chrono Trigger would be worth downloading for the VC...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I repeat, why do people think there is some kind of bad blood between Nintendo and Square-Enix?

Oh, and on the side, people keep talking about representing and such. I don't think the third-party characters are there solely for representing. I think they're there to make this game as great as possible.

I repeat: Why would SE want Geno in over someone they actually care about?

Because Sakurai doesn't care whom SE cares about. Sakurai pays attention to what we, the fans, care about and to Sakurai, cares about the fans and what the fans want. The fans want Geno. If SE isn't giving up Geno than SE isn't getting a rep.

You say that as if Sakurai cares about Geno HALF as much as you guys do. He mentioned him and he "expressed interest", I don't see him starting a Geno fan-club, so why in the world would he refuse to give SE any representation if Geno didn't get in?

1. Of course Nintendo never talks about the legal situations of their characters...Its simply assumed. Nintendo would never pay for use of Geno if they were gonna give him a 3 second appearance.

2. Yes, Sakurai had permission, only after he and Miyamoto confronted Sega about putting Sonic in, but im not about to argue anything more about Sonic in here. I never said Sakurai doesn't need permission, of course he does. But your statement at least to me, was implying that he just sits around waiting for 3rd party characters to be offered to him like Snake was instead of going and asking companies for their permission to use a character.

3. Geno is the most requested SE character and one of the most requested characters, period. Sakurai is not about to ask SE for another character they've made over Geno, and SE can just go, "Nah, we dont want you using that character, how you use this one!", that's not how you conduct that kind of business.

1. It says that Geno is the property of Square Enix. That's a bunch of legal crap waiting to happen if it actually belongs to multiple parties. If I own part of a Wii with someone else, it is both of our property. If Nintendo was going to specifically mention Geno and say who he belongs to and they also owned a part of him, they would specify. And on top of that, they do not have "free reign" over Geno as long as they give SE credit for him, if it's the property of Square Enix, then any inclusion of Geno must include SE's permission. That, or a law suit.

2. Sakurai gives a WEE bit more respect to developers than you suggest, since you seem to be suggesting that Sakurai has this "my way or the highway" attitude going on.

3. On a Nintendo web site. Which has a Nintendo fan base on it, not a Square Enix one. Why would people choose Slime, Moogle, or Crono over a Mario-oriented Geno on a Nintendo web site?

 

[DarkVision]

^ You don't get it...this is NOT Square's game...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Exactly and that's what makes sakurai so cool. also a Link to the snitch if your so against Geno then why do you insist on hanging around a topic dedicated to Geno?

So basically, this thread should be as biased as it can be, and not base inclusion on reality as long as they can avoid having to have a debate which they are losing over if he should or could be in?

 

[Punchline]

1. Since when does the fact that the end credits of M&L saying "copyright Square Enix" in relation to Geno not mean "wholly owned by Square Enix"? Nintendo is never mentioned as owning Geno in any way, shape, or form.

2. Yeah, I'm sure he didn't get permission to use Sonic. I'm sure he just decided to use Sonic, and said "if Sega doesn't like it, oh well!" He had to get expressed written permission from Sega if he even wanted to dream about Sonic in Brawl. Are you implying that Sakurai does not need third parties' permissions to use their characters? If SE wants them to use someone instead of Geno, they'll push that person instead.

3. It's a matter of if SE wants someone more important than Geno, not them not wanting Geno.

Why do they need to mention if they made it? They didnt. They worked on it. Square helped develop Geno, and most likely was thanking them.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

^ You don't get it...this is NOT Square's game...

Wow, that makes a whole lot of difference! Since it's Square's game, they have even LESS input on who Sakurai can put in Brawl from their roster!

So basically, a main character of lesser importance from one game a decade ago will be alongside two of the biggest video game icons in the history of the industry.

OR, they can ask Sakurai to put someone in that actually matters.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

Because, unlike Geno, Crono's copyright is spread out all over the place because almost none of the people who created the game still work for Square Enix. They even announced earlier this year that Chrono Trigger wouldn't be coming to the Virtual Console or Playstation Network anytime soon because of it.

That's a **** shame. Chrono would of been awesome for Brawl, PSN, or VC. If Chrono had a chance, he'd be my most requested character. Geno's legal situation, luckily, isn't like that. That April Fools joke is hilarious though.

 

[Deleted member]

You say that as if Sakurai cares about Geno HALF as much as you guys do. He mentioned him and he "expressed interest", I don't see him starting a Geno fan-club, so why in the world would he refuse to give SE any representation if Geno didn't get in?

No I don't. I make it sound like Sakurai cares for his fans and what they care about. If fans mention Geno 4 times than you'd know how much we care. Hell, Sakurai could even not care about Sonic or Pit but he still put them in 'cause the fans wanted them in. If the fans want in Geno than the fans might just GET Geno. That is, if SE cooperates. If they don't? No rep for SE I guess.

 

[DarkVision]

Wow, that makes a whole lot of difference! Since it's Square's game, they have even LESS input on who Sakurai can put in Brawl from their roster!

So basically, a main character of lesser importance from one game a decade ago will be alongside two of the biggest video game icons in the history of the industry.

OR, they can ask Sakurai to put someone in that actually matters.

Well, they can say if Geno is in or not but they can't force him to use another character or tell him to use a different character instead.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gba/d/marlui-63.png

There we go.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

No I don't. I make it sound like Sakurai cares for his fans and what they care about. If fans mention Geno 4 times than you'd know how much we care. Hell, Sakurai could even not care about Sonic or Pit but he still put them in 'cause the fans wanted them in. If the fans want in Geno than the fans might just GET Geno. That is, if SE cooperates. If they don't? No rep for SE I guess.

Sakurai does not care enough about the fans to say "hey, if you don't give us Geno, you're not allowed in our game." If he were to do that, that would be him taking their decline over Geno personally, and he would simply not take it personally.

 

[Machspeed]

Wow, have I not seen Geno in quite awhile. Can still remember him off the SNES vaguely.

Would love to see him in Brawl. Got my support!

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

Wow, that makes a whole lot of difference! Since it's Square's game, they have even LESS input on who Sakurai can put in Brawl from their roster!

So basically, a main character of lesser importance from one game a decade ago will be alongside two of the biggest video game icons in the history of the industry.

OR, they can ask Sakurai to put someone in that actually matters.

Pit and Ice Climbers are the best gaming icons in history that you're mentioning, right?

 

[Snakz]

1. It says that Geno is the property of Square Enix. That's a bunch of legal crap waiting to happen if it actually belongs to multiple parties. If I own part of a Wii with someone else, it is both of our property. If Nintendo was going to specifically mention Geno and say who he belongs to and they also owned a part of him, they would specify. And on top of that, they do not have "free reign" over Geno as long as they give SE credit for him, if it's the property of Square Enix, then any inclusion of Geno must include SE's permission. That, or a law suit.

2. Sakurai gives a WEE bit more respect to developers than you suggest, since you seem to be suggesting that Sakurai has this "my way or the highway" attitude going on.

3. On a Nintendo web site. Which has a Nintendo fan base on it, not a Square Enix one. Why would people choose Slime, Moogle, or Crono over a Mario-oriented Geno on a Nintendo web site?

1. I dont know what the real situation is, no one does, im not implying that what i said is true, it just makes the most sense to me. Im sure Nintendo would have to ask Square to use Geno, but i dont think they'd have to go as far as to pay for him seeing as how they got him in such a unnecessary in the M&L game, just acknowledgment for it's owners, but i could be wrong.

2. Well then i guess we misunderstood each other then.

3. It doesn't matter, the polls have shown what they will and it tells Sakurai that fans of the Smash series want to see Geno in Brawl. It's not Nintendo's problem if all they get to answer Sakurai's poll are it's own fan-base and not Square's (which doesn't make sense anyway), besides, i seriously doubt it was all pure Nintendo fan-boys who voted on that poll, which is why there's other non-nintendo characters on there.

 

[Pieman0920]

The polls didn't have Sonic, and he's the most requested character. The results you see are nothing you should base anything on.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. No, those are retro characters, included because of their history with Nintendo. I really doubt that Nintendo including retro characters lets Geno in, when he'd be the only third party character who has only been in one game.

2. Dude, I just showed you a screenshot that said Geno was an exception to Nintendo's copyright of M&L's content.

3. The fanbase didn't include Sonic as far as I can tell. Logically, Sonic was a bad choice then, correct?

But you know what? Sakurai ignored that fact and included him anyway, because he knew that the poll was of Nintendo fans and didn't take into account the fact that it would be Nintendo-biased. Why would Sakurai want to pick Geno over a TRUE representative of SE - perhaps, oh, I dunno, Moogle, Chocobo, Slime, Crono, a Mana character, etc. You know, someone who had a starring role? Who appeared in more than one game besides a minor cameo in a mini-game? Who either SE or Nintendo really care about anymore?

 

[RegalBuster]

The polls didn't have Sonic, and he's the most requested character. The results you see are nothing you should base anything on.

Of course he didn't because Sonic as with Snake was going to be in Melee, but couldn't be because of time constraints.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The polls didn't have Sonic, and he's the most requested character. The results you see are nothing you should base anything on.

Why do people always neglect to mention that he was mentioned in an interview back in September 2006?

These are the characters Sakurai has mentioned in interviews since 2001:

1. Lip (Panel de Pon)
2. Lolo (Adventures of Lolo/ Kirby franchise)
3. Muddy Mole (Mole Mania)
4. the Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
5. Sonic
6. Little Mac (Punch Out franchise)
7. Lucas (Mother 3)
8. Sigurd (Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu)

In short, using Sonic as a way to debunk Sakurai's journal is faulty because both have been venues for expressing his interests.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This person is arguing facts with his assumptions and own bias

 

[AmericanGTS]

I repeat: Why would SE want Geno in over someone they actually care about?



You say that as if Sakurai cares about Geno HALF as much as you guys do. He mentioned him and he "expressed interest", I don't see him starting a Geno fan-club, so why in the world would he refuse to give SE any representation if Geno didn't get in?



1. It says that Geno is the property of Square Enix. That's a bunch of legal crap waiting to happen if it actually belongs to multiple parties. If I own part of a Wii with someone else, it is both of our property. If Nintendo was going to specifically mention Geno and say who he belongs to and they also owned a part of him, they would specify. And on top of that, they do not have "free reign" over Geno as long as they give SE credit for him, if it's the property of Square Enix, then any inclusion of Geno must include SE's permission. That, or a law suit.

2. Sakurai gives a WEE bit more respect to developers than you suggest, since you seem to be suggesting that Sakurai has this "my way or the highway" attitude going on.

3. On a Nintendo web site. Which has a Nintendo fan base on it, not a Square Enix one. Why would people choose Slime, Moogle, or Crono over a Mario-oriented Geno on a Nintendo web site?

Well, if Square Enix doesn't care about Geno then why the hell would they care if Sakurai wanted to add Geno to Brawl? Your argument is a giant contradiction with partial facts and barely any evidence to back it up. You aren't Sakurai and I doubt you're even acquainted to him. "Sakurai would do this for sure! Why would Sakurai say that, he definitely wouldn't! Look at me guys, Sakurai and I are buddies! I know everything!"

Whats wrong with the fans wanting Geno? Hmm? If any other Square Enix character was requested NEARLY as much as Geno and received NEARLY as much recognition from Sakurai, your argument might hold up a bit more than it does.. I mean doesn't.. If Geno is highly requested and Sakurai notes that, then what do you want us to do about it? You can't blame the fans for wanting a character.. you'd be a hypocrite. Smash Bros isn't about who is super popular and who has the most games and who has the largest fan bases.. my god.. I didn't even know who the Ice Climbers, Pit, Mr. Game and Watch, Lucas, Roy and Marth were until I played Melee and started watching updates on the Smash Bros Dojo.


1) You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Do you know who Rareware is? Did you know that for years they developed most of the Donkey Kong content you see today? Guess what! Nintendo didn't create it! Rareware did! Oh, but Nintendo owns the rights to Donkey Kong and everything affiliated to it.. I'm so STUPID... oh man, wow.. I can't believe it.. wait.. whats that? In the Melee instruction manual there is credit given to Rareware for the material they created that was used for Melee?! No way! Nintendo paid Rareware!? Oh yeah, I forgot, they didn't.. they just gave credit to Rareware who is a fourth party company now. Don't think for one moment that it would be any different in Brawl. Rareware holds most of the intellectual property to Donkey Kong's content and Nintendo MUST credit Rareware for the material they created even if they don't own half of a fraction of Donkey Kong. Thats the way it is. Geno is most likely in the same situation.

2) So.. next time you and Sakurai are hanging out, why don't you confirm Geno's status for us?

3) I don't have a clue how that has any relevance to Geno's inclusion in Brawl...

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

The polls didn't have Sonic, and he's the most requested character. The results you see are nothing you should base anything on.

Snake and Sonic aren't on the poll, because they're third party characters. Since there are no other 3rd Party characters, oher than the complicated situation of Geno, we can only assume that Geno is 2nd Party.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The polls were based on readers who did not know that Sonic or Snake had a chance, so they didn't vote for him. The readers did, however, feel that Geno stood a chance - solely because they thought he was Nintendo-owned. He beat out Slime and Moogle etc. because the poll was a "rigged deck", which was aimed at a fanbase that preferred Nintendo to third parties.

 

[Pieman0920]

Of course he didn't because Sonic as with Snake was going to be in Melee, but couldn't be because of time constraints.

....No. That's never been the case. For Snake, it was because Kojima approached Sakurai too late. There's nothing on Sonic though, so it can probably be concluded that he was never intended for Melee. (Wait, was the Dreamcast still afloat at that point, or did it go under by then?)

EDIT: Oh, and Megaman was there, and it the poll was after Snake's inclusion. They knew full well about third party characters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The polls were based on readers who did not know that Sonic or Snake had a chance, so they didn't vote for him. The readers did, however, feel that Geno stood a chance - solely because they thought he was Nintendo-owned. He beat out Slime and Moogle etc. because the poll was a "rigged deck", which was aimed at a fanbase that preferred Nintendo to third parties.

Your entire arguement is based solely on what you think they should do based on your own bias or assuming everything is based on advertising, which if they developers really cared enough about they would have approached Sakurai. Geno is not fully 3rd party and counts as a Mario representative character