The Official Geno Thread

[Fatmanonice]

1. Um, Slime? You know, that character who is from the most popular third party video game series ever created in Japan? The mascot of said series? Yeah, that's tough competition - Slime, a very well-known character. Geno, a character who has been of no relevance for years. And why in the world does Geno represent SE? The fact that he's associated with Nintendo as much as he is makes him an even WORSE representative.

You basically shoot yourself in the foot for suggesting Slime to a playable character considering he stars in spinoffs of the Dragon Quest games and is a minor character in the actual canon games. There's also the fact that he's anatomically ill suited for a game like Brawl. (Grabbing and throwing, anyone?) You also keep ignoring how people have said time and time again that Geno would enter the ranks as a Mario character and not represent Square Enix as a whole.

2. And? Just because they could doesn't mean that SE would want their rep to be a retired, irrelevant puppet. Konami's character wasn't included to please Nintendo fans, Sega's wasn't, so why does SE's have to?

*slams face on keyboard* This is a terrible arguement all in itself... First off, please read what I said in the third sentence of the first comment. Second, how is Sonic's inclusion in any shape or form "displeasing" to Nintendo fans? He was the most requested overall according to Miyamoto and Sakurai and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games was solely created TO PLEASE BOTH SEGA AND NINTENDO FANS BECAUSE OF THE HIGH DEMAND FOR BOTH OF THEM TO BE IN A GAME TOGETHER. Also, the Metal Gear franchise is highly acclaimed and Snake's inclusion confirmed that other third party characters would surely make the cut so I don't see how that's radically displeasing either. You've got to stop making assumptions about so many things...

3. Read the above copyright Nintendo holds. "All rights, including copyrights of Game, Scenario, Music, and Program reserved by Nintendo." Following that, it says: "Regardless of the above-mentioned, the copyright of Character "Geno", reserved by Square Enix Co., Ltd." They say the same thing about Geno and Square as they do about the entire game sans Geno and themselves. Which means that SE owns Geno as much as Nintendo owns the music made for M&L.

Do you even read your opponents' rebuttals? Why must I repeat myself? Regarding what you said above, that lists what Nintendo has control of when it comes to all Mario titles. Because of Nintendo owning the scenarios to the games, original characters in said games cannot be used in other games without Nintendo's involvement. Square Enix may own Geno but because of this, he's basically useless to them.

4. And? Are you implying that Sakurai holds no respect for any input from Konami, Sega, or SE on who is in and who isn't, as well as how the character looks or acts? I doubt Sakurai's going to burn bridges by ignoring their input.

As he is the person that gives the thumbs up or down in the end, their input isn't even a factor unless Sakurai contacts them and makes a pact concerning a third party character. It's like going to a grocery store: you only have to buy certain products if you want to and if you decide to, you end up paying for the products. What I just said basically debunks your theory about third parties making demands at Sakurai even before he contacts them.

5. A free poll on a Nintendo site! Guess who frequents those? Hint: Not SE fans. There had never been any indication of third parties in Brawl, and the fanbase pretty much everywhere agreed that third parties wouldn't be included. Nintendo fans on a Nintendo fansite are a wee bit more likely to vote for a Nintendo-linked character than someone who is not.

And I take it that's why Megaman and Sonic were the most requested characters overall... huh... Funny how that works...

My responses in red.

 

[RegalBuster]

They aren't crediting Square, they're stating who owns Geno!

They say that the copyright over Geno disregards Nintendo's copyright over all content in M&L, which means that Nintendo does not own the copyright! They went out of their way to say that SE OWNS him. They didn't credit SE for making him, they were doing what was required by law. Sure, they had a choice - include SE's copyright ownership of Geno, or get sued. Conker was also created by Rare for Nintendo, but guess what console he's on now?

He wasn't really.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Also, just because they're on the SNES doesn't make them retro. My Grandma is not retro, she's old. But at least she's relevant, and at least people still care about her, unlike the hunk-of-junk Geno.

Being old =/= being retro, and you're totally missing the POINT. A retro third party is completely useless, because it's not important to Nintendo history, only to the third party's. And in this case, it's a retro supporting main character with one role in one game. SE would want to be represented by Slime or Moogle or Crono or a Mana character before a forgotten one.

No, they really wouldn't since they wouldn't make Square as much money as other characters, and like I said...Geno would not be put in to represent Square...Get that through your thick head

 

[Zorya]

Conker was also created by Rare for Nintendo, but guess what console he's on now?

I KNOW!!!! It's sooo unfortunate isn't it? Imagine Conker with his chainsaw. Don't even get me started on his urine attacks...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1) You're still "trying" to convince us.. wonderful. Wake up "dude". This is a Nintendo fighter. There will be Nintendo bias. Nobody is saying that Cloud or Crono or any other Square Enix character is less popular than Geno. We all know that. Square Enix developed a MARIO game, which is owned by NINTENDO with characters THEY CREATED for that MARIO game. Who is better to represent Square Enix in Brawl than Geno? Their very own Mario character. Any other Square Enix character wouldn't make any sense..

2) The second point you made was absolutely awful. You're kidding right? Geno is the first "third party Mario character (which is technically a second party character)" ever. Aside from that, Super Mario RPG was a very well received game because of everything it had to it. It was the first time Peach used her frying pan.. hmm looks familiar, the first Mario game that Link/Samus made a cameo and a small reference to Donkey Kong, Star Fox, F-zero etc. By the way, the plot of Super Mario RPG wouldn't work without Geno.. like Mario and his allies could have fixed the Star Road without the help of Geno.. most importantly this was the first Mario RPG ever and the last Mario game on the SNES! Of course its important!

3) Maybe because Sakurai never intended on adding a ton of third party characters in the first place? Again.. Nintendo fighter = Nintendo bias. By the way.. why wouldn't a Nintendo game be on a Nintendo site anyways.. uhh.. Nintendo is making the game and not Square Enix...? I know, next time we we hear about a Mario game, lets consult Capcom fans...

4) Nintendo can not be credited for that which they did not create. Rareware created a boat load of Donkey Kong stuff in the past. Also, read up on copyrights in joint custody situations before you go around calling people out. Geno cannot be used out of a Mario game. Hmm.. if Square Enix owns the rights to Geno, shouldn't they be allowed to do whatever they wish with him?

5) I... don't really know what you're talking about.. but ok I guess. I never claimed I knew Sakurai personally and I haven't spoken for him.. I don't get your point.

1. There has yet to be a third party character that has a significant appeal to the Nintendo fanbase, so what logic is there in introducing one that does? There's no precedence to, after all. Being a Nintendo-oriented third party character does not make him a better SE rep, it makes him a better Mario rep! Under your logic, if Konami made some old Zelda game for the GB and introduced Skippy the Wonder Turtle as Link's helper, he should be playable instead of Snake because he was in a Zelda game. Being from another company's franchise does not make him a better representative of Square, so why would Square care to have him represent him?

2. Geno was a supporting main character. SMRPG couldn't have happened if it weren't for Smithy, does that make him just as main as the main characters? Like I've said a million times, the fact that he's Nintendo-oriented does not improve his ability to represent Square Enix!

3. You can't argue that Geno beat all the other SE characters and then say "well, so what if it wasn't to the SE fanbase? It's a Nintendo game anyway!" Your whole argument is a contradiction of itself. It basically argues that because Geno beat all the SE characters in a poll that was immediately in favor of him over them before people even participated, Geno is a better SE rep and better for SE fans to appreciate, when in reality, he was popular among the Nintendo fans, which by logic does not increase his chances to represent SE.

4. And where did you read that? People were having a hard enough time finding ANY copyright information about Geno, but you have some copyright info that is unlike this, which does not mention that Nintendo has any rights to Geno, but in fact says that Geno is the exception to the copyrights that they own in Mario & Luigi?

5. Most people have said that Sakurai feels "personally" about Geno and would actively try to do so.

 

[RegalBuster]

Even if conker was still on a Nintendo console he doesn't deserve to be in Brawl.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. Dude, Slime is able to pick up and throw people and objects in his spin-off game. Don't even argue with me on Slime, I have never lost a single argument about him. By the way, fun fact: He's the freaking mascot of the series. He's the one ANYTHING people think of in Japan when they think of Dragon Quest - not only the first encountered enemy and the most common type of enemy, but he has his own series of games, and a PS2 controller based on him.

2. Why would they just GIVE Nintendo a character that wouldn't even represent them? That is the stupidest thing I could ever imagine SE doing! Why would they say "Well, okay, that sounds fine" instead of "you know, we want someone that would actually represent us!"?

3. Conker's first game was in 1999. Diddy Kong Racing was in 1997. Conker's first appearance was in Diddy Kong Racing. Conker was created for the DK franchise.

 

[Chi's Finest]

Geno is a Mario character. Both of his games have all Mario characters, koopas, Bowser, Goombas, Hammer Bros, Mushroom Kingdom, etc etc etc.

 

[RegalBuster]

why don't you get out of this topic as you shouldn't be here because you obviously don't want Geno in and this is a topic for people who do, so gtfo kthnx.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

But he is owned by Square Enix. If Square Enix let Geno be in, he would be their representative, not Mario's.

 

[Zorya]

Conker was created for the DK franchise.

Just like Mario was created for DK franchise??

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I'm simply asking why SE would want Geno more than their biggest franchises' characters.

 

[RegalBuster]

And i'm simply asking you to gtfo.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Just like Mario was created for DK franchise??

Um, no. Mario is the star of DK. Conker appeared in DKR as a minor character with no history, and no game library to speak of. They made Diddy Kong Racing, and then added Conker and Banjo.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm simply asking why SE would want Geno more than their biggest franchises' characters.

They don't want Geno, Nintendo wants Geno...

Square didn't want a rep or they would have approached Nintendo.

They didn't

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Well, that seems like the popular statement to make when a user cannot make a good retort.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, that seems like the popular statement to make when a user cannot make a good retort.

You can't make a good arguement other than your own assumptions

 

[Zorya]

Um, no. Mario is the star of DK. Conker appeared in DKR as a minor character with no history, and no game library to speak of. They made Diddy Kong Racing, and then added Conker and Banjo.

The game was called Donkey Kong, so as far as I'm concerned Mario is part of the DK franchise. Sorry buddy, you feel alrite?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

They don't want Geno, Nintendo wants Geno...

Square didn't want a rep or they would have approached Nintendo.

They didn't

So you seem to be contradicting yourself left and right. First it seems that Sakurai goes to the developers and discusses characters, but now you say that the third parties do that. Which is it?

What position do you have to know how they would react if offered a spot in Brawl?

 

[Devastlian]

They don't want Geno, Nintendo wants Geno...

Square didn't want a rep or they would have approached Nintendo.

They didn't

How do you know they didn't?

 

[RegalBuster]

How do you know they didn't?

Because we would have found out in a magazine about them meeting.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So you seem to be contradicting yourself left and right. First it seems that Sakurai goes to the developers and discusses characters, but now you say that the third parties do that. Which is it?

What position do you have to know how they would react if offered a spot in Brawl?

I'm not contradicting myself, you just don't seem to understand what I'm saying

How do you know they didn't?

Mostly an article...

But that's somewhat of an assumption. I assume they did because they said they weren't going to. but I can't provide the link anymore as I didn't keep it.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

You can't make a good arguement other than your own assumptions

I do believe that you made a statement earlier that suggested that Moogle can't be in because of your flawed reasoning that "because a generic species has never been in before, one will never be in".

Heh.

So, Super Mario Bros. actually stars Bowser as well? Amazing.

I mean, since DK seems to be the main character of DK for being the end boss, Bowser's the star of SMB, right?

I mean, it can't be the fact that his name is in the title. I mean, who would be so silly as to say a character that does not fit the canons of what a main character is is the main character because of the title of the game? I don't see anyone calling Zelda the main character of The Legend of Zelda.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I do believe that you made a statement earlier that suggested that Moogle can't be in because of your flawed reasoning that "because a generic species has never been in before, one will never be in".

Heh.

So, Super Mario Bros. actually stars Bowser as well? Amazing.

I mean, since DK seems to be the main character of DK for being the end boss, Bowser's the star of SMB, right?

I mean, it can't be the fact that his name is in the title. I mean, who would be so silly as to say a character that does not fit the canons of what a main character is is the main character because of the title of the game? I don't see anyone calling Zelda the main character of The Legend of Zelda.

Can you just shut it unless you actually have a real point.

 

[Devastlian]

Because we would have found out in a magazine about them meeting.

...What? We didn't read about any meeting with Konami or SEGA until after the characters were announced.

Mostly an article...

But that's somewhat of an assumption. I assume they did because they said they weren't going to. but I can't provide the link anymore as I didn't keep it.

Oh jeeze...

We seriously can't count this as any form of evidence until you find this magical link you people keep talking about.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also, just because they're on the SNES doesn't make them retro.

You know, despite Nintendo calling Ocarina of Time retro when it was made in 1998 and SMRPG was made in 1996...

My Grandma is not retro, she's old. But at least she's relevant, and at least people still care about her, unlike the hunk-of-junk Geno.

If nobody cared about Geno, how did he even end up in the Brawl poll despite not being playable in over a decade, why was he the only original character from SMRPG to ever appear in another game, why is SMRPG currently the most requested Virtual Console game in North America and Japan and how in God's name did out of probably 10,000 entries, did 5 mentioning him get selected by Sakurai and his staff?

Being old =/= being retro, and you're totally missing the POINT. A retro third party is completely useless, because it's not important to Nintendo history, only to the third party's. And in this case, it's a retro supporting main character with one role in one game. SE would want to be represented by Slime or Moogle or Crono or a Mana character before a forgotten one.

This is where you not only shot yourself in the foot but completely blew it off.

For the Mario franchise, it was important because:

1. it was the first non-platforming Mario canon game.

2. it was the first Mario game to have true dialouge, a complete story, and character development.

3. it was the first game that Mario and Bowser teamed up in.

4. it was the first game where Peach and Bowser were really given distinct personalities and attributes.

5. it was the first game to feature star collecting, a concept that has been in almost every other Mario canon game ever since.

6. it was the first game where Mario interacts with former enemies like koopas and goombas, another concept used in all the other Mario RPGs.

7. it was the first Mario game with a genuine sense of humor and wackiness, yet something else that has continued in the other Mario RPGs.

For Nintendo, it was important because:

1.Super Mario RPG was the first major joint project between Nintendo and a third party company. (I don't even have to explain why this is so important.)

2. It was the first isometric 3D that Nintendo created (meaning that the character can move in 9 directions and the backgrounds and character sprites are mostly 3D).

3. It was the first game to feature all of Miyamoto's then current major franchises: Mario, Donkey Kong, the Legend of Zelda, F-Zero, and Star Fox. (It also featured Metroid too.)

In the end, how can you say that SMRPG was not important unless, which you obviously do, you have a clear bias against the game itself.



My responses in red.

 

[RegalBuster]

Can you just shut it unless you actually have a real point.

Yeah seriously your pretty **** annoying.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

I'm simply asking why SE would want Geno more than their biggest franchises' characters.

Well, I can think of one great reason. SE's major characters are mainly only on Playstation games. Brawl characters have to have been in at least one video game.

Who, then, would/could SE have in Brawl? Yuna or Sephiroth? Never been on Nintendo. Squall or Cloud? They were in bit parts of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. Black Mage? That's more reasonable, but also a little generic, and not a proper 'representative' of their company.

Also, you make it sound like no one at SE cares about Geno. I'm pretty sure there are those over there who fondly remember Super Mario RPG. And I'd like to restate that I don't see why you think SE would be resistant to having Geno in Brawl.

I can't really picture the meeting going like this:

Nintendo - "So, we were thinking of having a character that you own in Brawl, and we're willing to pay the rights, put in the copyrights, sign contracts, yadda yadda."
Square-Enix - "Ooo! Really? Who is it? Squall? Cloud? Sephiroth?"
Nintendo - "Well, our fans have had a very strong desire to see Geno, and we thought-"
Square-Enix - "GENO!?! *kicks over table* Get outta my office!!"

That's not really likely. Why would SE be hesitant to have an old-character in Brawl? I mean, heck, I would think it'd be better than one of their major Final Fantasy characters, or they'd get millions of requests to bring that game to the Wii as well as PS3!

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Can you just shut it unless you actually have a real point.

So I guess my little paragraph was a bit too long?

Well, here we go:

Pot-kettle-black.

AFAIC, no one has provided solid reasoning for including him besides expressed interest from Sakurai. The third party status of Geno provides an extra hurdle. Just because Takamaru made the poll does not mean that Sakurai fell in love with his inclusion - he stated that he'd include him if he had another game. This same condition was applied to Pit - he had another game, which sold very well, so he was included. Just because he didn't say "Geno? More like Gtfo amirite?" doesn't mean that he's going to include him.

 

[RegalBuster]

I'm pretty sure he will, and seriouslt gtfo out your pretty **** annoying.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So I guess my little paragraph was a bit too long?

Well, here we go:

Pot-kettle-black.

AFAIC, no one has provided solid reasoning for including him besides expressed interest from Sakurai. The third party status of Geno provides an extra hurdle. Just because Takamaru made the poll does not mean that Sakurai fell in love with his inclusion - he stated that he'd include him if he had another game. This same condition was applied to Pit - he had another game, which sold very well, so he was included. Just because he didn't say "Geno? More like Gtfo amirite?" doesn't mean that he's going to include him.

I'm convinced you provided no evidence against him other than you don't want him in and/ or you don't think he is in...

You stated no facts, ONLY assumptions.

BTW, Sakurai provided an ENTIRE interview about the character Takamaru stating that he really liked the character and wished for his return

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Why does everyone ignore Slime? SE's putting their biggest game on the DS, Nintendo's basically going to become the home of the Dragon Quest series from now on if DQIX sells well. Why wouldn't SE suggest a character from a franchise that started on the NES and is now returning to the DS and Wii exclusively?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I'm convinced you provided no evidence against him other than you don't want him in and/ or you don't think he is in...

You stated no facts, ONLY assumptions.

And what evidence have you provided to suggest he will be in? None.

You provided a very narrow poll that Sakurai didn't just look at and decide that the top five's definitely getting in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

And what evidence have you provided to suggest he will be in? None.

You provided a very narrow poll that Sakurai didn't just look at and decide that the top five's definitely getting in.

We have enough evidence to believe he's in...No one said, "He's 100% confirmed"

WTF is your point?

 

[RegalBuster]

Well, I can think of one great reason. SE's major characters are mainly only on Playstation games. Brawl characters have to have been in at least one video game.

Who, then, would/could SE have in Brawl? Yuna or Sephiroth? Never been on Nintendo. Squall or Cloud? They were in bit parts of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. Black Mage? That's more reasonable, but also a little generic, and not a proper 'representative' of their company.

Also, you make it sound like no one at SE cares about Geno. I'm pretty sure there are those over there who fondly remember Super Mario RPG. And I'd like to restate that I don't see why you think SE would be resistant to having Geno in Brawl.

I can't really picture the meeting going like this:

Nintendo - "So, we were thinking of having a character that you own in Brawl, and we're willing to pay the rights, put in the copyrights, sign contracts, yadda yadda."
Square-Enix - "Ooo! Really? Who is it? Squall? Cloud? Sephiroth?"
Nintendo - "Well, our fans have had a very strong desire to see Geno, and we thought-"
Square-Enix - "GENO!?! *kicks over table* Get outta my office!!"

That's not really likely. Why would SE be hesitant to have an old-character in Brawl? I mean, heck, I would think it'd be better than one of their major Final Fantasy characters, or they'd get millions of requests to bring that game to the Wii as well as PS3!

Yeah what this person said makes perfect sense.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Perfect sense if you ignore the fact that one of SE's oldest mascots ever made, as well as the most well-known SE icon in Japan, is definitely not PlayStation-oriented.

 

[RegalBuster]

Perfect sense if you ignore the fact that one of SE's oldest mascots ever made, as well as the most well-known SE icon in Japan, is definitely not PlayStation-oriented.

The only other character Square has that's Brawl worthy is Crono.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Perfect sense if you ignore the fact that one of SE's oldest mascots ever made, as well as the most well-known SE icon in Japan, is definitely not PlayStation-oriented.

WE DON'T WANT GENO TO REPRESENT SQUARE-ENIX

I DON'T KNOW WHY THE **** YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT...


He's a **** Mario character and will get in as a Mario character

 

[Kriven]

I think Geno would be interesting from a financal point. Seeing as he's a Mario character, he may not be considered as the third-party rep, and SE could add Cloud or someone else as their actual representative. Think of it more like Geno is a first-party that needs express permission to be added, and it makes perfect sense.

 

[Fatmanonice]

1. Dude, Slime is able to pick up and throw people and objects in his spin-off game. Don't even argue with me on Slime, I have never lost a single argument about him. By the way, fun fact: He's the freaking mascot of the series. He's the one ANYTHING people think of in Japan when they think of Dragon Quest - not only the first encountered enemy and the most common type of enemy, but he has his own series of games, and a PS2 controller based on him.

How is the mascot of the whole series when he doesn't star in all the games and only some of the spinoffs? That doesn't make any sense... Also, do you honestly think he is worthy to represent Square Enix in its entirety? Keep in mind that Square Enix is more Square Soft then Enix (the company that created Dragon Quest) so to have someone from Dragon Quest over Final Fantasy would definately be strange. Also, with your arguement, koopas should be playable in Brawl too because they were the first playable enemies, appear in almost all the games in some form, and are technically the most common enemy because of the various Hammer Bros and Bowser and his kin.

2. Why would they just GIVE Nintendo a character that wouldn't even represent them? That is the stupidest thing I could ever imagine SE doing! Why would they say "Well, okay, that sounds fine" instead of "you know, we want someone that would actually represent us!"?

As I already mentioned, there really isn't anyone that is suitable to represent SE in its entirety. Also, for SE getting money for a character that's basically worthless to them, why would that be stupid?

3. Conker's first game was in 1999. Diddy Kong Racing was in 1997. Conker's first appearance was in Diddy Kong Racing. Conker was created for the DK franchise.

I think you were responding to someone else here.