The North/West Pennsylvania Thread! HSV 3 October 27th!

[Melomaniacal]

Oh... boy...

 

[Nakamaru]

became a cpm (ala Starcraft) contest with wavedashing.

I normally stay out of brawl v melee stuff, but this statement is total BS. By CPM I am assuming you mean "commands per minute" or apm (action per minute). You don't just win (in either starcraft or melee) by simply being able to push your buttons faster. If that really was the case melee would have died out by now. It is about how well you can control your character. I guarantee that the reason someone won in tournament was not simply because they won the CPM contest with their opponent. : /

The greatly reduced lag on virtually everything...

This i also disagree with because the only things they really reduced the lag on was shield stun, hitlag, and grab release to the point where some characters actually gain frame advantage. : / The time you have to stay on the ledge after grabbing has been increased which to me makes it feel incredibly slow and awkward. The 10 frame buffer also makes it very awkward to control any character.

Brawl has a lot of tools in place to "help" the player control their character which may make it much easier for people. However melee allows players to have much more precision with their characters because of the tighter controls. It all comes down to what you prefer, and the reason the community as a whole is so technical now is because we have been playing this game for 5+ years on average. You kind of just pick it up after a point.

I'm not arguing the validity of brawl as a game, but you can't just say a close minded statement like "melee is just a cpm contest with wavedashing." These kinds of statements are the reason there is so much hate between the two games.

Sorry for the rant, but that just really bothered me.

 

[AnseLm]

Lets not turn this into a Brawl vs Melee debate. They both have their ups and downs, it comes down to personal preference as to which we think is better. I play melee as a casual because I'd rather put my competitive juices into other games.

I agree that brawl is more user friendly in some cases and less in others.

On a completely unrelated note, I'd be glad to play with you guys some time

 

[Palpi]

Melee is objectively better. (im not trolling?)

But...I WILL TEACH YOU MELEE LIKE YOU WERE MY SON! MY SON THAT I WANTED TO TRAIN IN MELEE, NOT THE ONE I WANT TO TRAIN IN PINGPONG!

 

[AnseLm]

Haha alright. I needed a new hobby, lets see how this goes.

 

[Sleek Media]

To nakamarus rant, I stand by the cpm comment. While you can get away with not using Wavedashes with Jiggs, for characters like Fox it is basically a REQUIREMENT to use that annoying three button command as your primary means of ground movement if you want to be competitive. It's a stupid glitch that just adds an unnecessary barrier to meta level gameplay, and good luck trying to compete without it. Then theres stuff like dash dancing, L canceling, etc all contributing to unnecessarily complex inputs. Like ansel said, just listen to the machine gun clacking of a melee match and tell me it's not about putting in a crazy number of commands.

I'll also stand by Brawl having superior control due to the decreased lag EXCEPT for grab releases, which is an obvious oversight. I'll also say that in Brawl you snap to the ledge from WAY too far out. Otherwise I don't see how you can argue melees movement being comparable in any way. You're just used to the limitations. If you still prefer it, that's fine...to that end, it doesn't matter which game does what. I enjoyed Melee for seven years, but I just can't go back to it. Too much mandatory use of glitches, sitting there watching your character get combo'd, and stiff movement for my taste. Although I do miss a competitive Mario...

Sadly, one of my biggest advantages melee had over brawl was the items, and fat chance I'm gonna see that with the remaining melee community...

 

[Mogwai]

you clearly don't understand melee. Fox runs more than wavedashes. his primary form of ground movement is the most responsive and 2nd fastest run in the entire game.

also, you're going to make my brain explode by calling wavedashing a glitch. call it an exploit if you like, but nothing about wavedashing is a glitch. jumping, airdodging in any direction with instanteous acceleration and maintaining momentum are all accepted pieces of Melee physics. you can say we're exploiting them with how we combine them to a non-obvious effect, but I'll argue until the day I die that it's not a glitch based on the physics of Melee as we know them.

 

[Vudujin]

It's a stupid glitch that just adds an unnecessary barrier to meta level gameplay, and good luck trying to compete without it. Then theres stuff like dash dancing, L canceling, etc all contributing to unnecessarily complex inputs. Like ansel said, just listen to the machine gun clacking of a melee match and tell me it's not about putting in a crazy number of commands.

I'll also stand by Brawl having superior control due to the decreased lag EXCEPT for grab releases, which is an obvious oversight. . . You're just used to the limitations. If you still prefer it, that's fine...to that end, it doesn't matter which game does what. I enjoyed Melee for seven years, but I just can't go back to it.

I second Mogwai's notion.

Dash dancing is the technical equivalent to a game of Donkey Kong.

L canceling was only absent in brawl. It's also a limit since it forces you to use auto-cancelled moves or jumping with the move at an appropriate height to prevent lag landings. It's not really that excessive to press a button when you land with an attack. That finger isn't doing anything else anyway.

The ONLY character that absolutely requires wavedashing is Luigi.

Good, simple spacing can destroy WD'ing.

The reason there is a machine gun clip of inputs in a match is because you have MORE control over the character. Movement gets pretty interesting when there are so many variables at the disposal of the player. It's fun.

I think brawl is way more limited than melee. That's why so many people play it. Melee is very intimidating when you 1st start; seeing as how precise people can be when they're given the amount of options that the game offers.

 

[Sleek Media]

You're right. They clearly designed melee with the idea that players would short hop, immediately air dodge into the ground, and perform another action out of the slide. It's just a coincidence that it was never mentioned by the development team, excluded from all versions of the manual and guides, and absent in Brawl. Get real.

It's like you're personally offended that it's not an intended part of the game. How is it even possible to get upset over that. Cancels started out as a glitch in Street Fighter. See if wavedashing becomes a staple in smash games. I'm thinking it's just a regular bug that people abused one time, and is going to be tested for and removed in all future versions. Disagree all you want.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Successful troll is successful?

 

[Life]

There's a quote somewhere that Sakurai knew wavedashing was in Melee and left it in, curious to see how people would use it.

Please stop embarrassing Brawl players.

 

[Nakamaru]

What exactly are you arguing here sleek. You're kind of jumping from your initial "melee is just a CPM contest (ala starcraft)" to "because it wasn't intended means you are offended that it isn't in brawl."

At least that is what i am seeing. Mogwai is saying that wavedashing isn't a glitch, but an exploit of how the game was programmed. It doesn't matter if it was intended or not. It is in the game and can be used anyway as long as the game's parameters allow for it to happen. Ice climber's freeze and mewtwo king's soul stunner are glitches because they go outside of the game's parameters. They cause something to happen that wasn't in anyway programmed into the game. All parts of wavedashing, dodging in the air, burst of momentum, angle, and landing lag/traction were all meant to act in that way. We just decided to take those restrictions to their limit and see what we can do with them. Wavedashing is the result, and not some glitch. I can guarantee that dropping and jumping from the ledge wasn't intended, nor was chaingrabbing, but we do them anyway because the game allows us to. Are those glitches too?

I also dare you to find me where the developers tell the players that grab releases, DDD's chaingrab, DACUS, jab/laser lock, or falco's chaingrab were intentionally put in brawl. : |

If you think i'm offended because you said they took wavedashing out of brawl because it is a glitch you haven't been reading my posts at all. I'm offended that you're so damn closed minded to think that melee is just how fast one can hit their buttons. It is like me saying brawl is just a camp fest about who can be gayer than their opponent.

I can't play brawl because of the lack of freedom i have in movement and aggressive options. I don't like how clunky it feels, but i don't bash the game. I just don't play it. I do respect the game as a competitive game, and i have actually talked to high level brawl players about brawl trying to understand it better. It is the disrespect for the game that I love that pisses me off when i give your game an honest try once in a while, and you go and say that all I'm doing is pressing my buttons fast.

In case you still don't understand what I'm talking about. It is your ignorance that pisses me off.

 

[PGH Carroll]

LOL@ sleek. hes just bad at smash in general.

 

[GOTM]

You're right. They clearly designed melee with the idea that players would short hop, immediately air dodge into the ground, and perform another action out of the slide. It's just a coincidence that it was never mentioned by the development team, excluded from all versions of the manual and guides, and absent in Brawl. Get real.

I hope you're kidding. You're either being incredibly sarcastic, or entirely ignorant.

There are quotes from the development team and Sakurai himself saying that they needed a way to prevent characters from moving through the stage if they airdodged directionally down into it. To solve this, they made the character softly land on the stage without lag. Now, do the math - you directionally move yourself to the left or right, would it make sense for the character to stay in place? No.

Everyone knew about this, and they left it in. In fact, it was something they explicitly removed from Brawl, not "fixed".

 

[Sleek Media]

 

[the melon!!!!!]

The kid's just mad there's no items allowed in tourneys :/

 

[Scar]

maybe i'll go to this instead

 

[takieddine]

Seconded. Melee was a lot more fun before became a cpm (ala Starcraft) contest with wavedashing. The greatly reduced lag on virtually everything makes brawl more responsive and better controlling, which is one of the reasons most players prefer it. Smashboards pretty much IS the melee community. Everyone else out there is Brawl.

mm $100 no wavedasing.

Actually YOU Can wavedash if you so wish.

I will keep it at under 20 cpm for you so you can process things as they happen.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

Seconded. Melee was a lot more fun before became a cpm (ala Starcraft) contest with wavedashing. The greatly reduced lag on virtually everything makes brawl more responsive and better controlling, which is one of the reasons most players prefer it. Smashboards pretty much IS the melee community. Everyone else out there is Brawl.

I didn't see this post before, but man, you're ****ing off your rocker!

My whole floor during my freshman year was more for melee, I was one of 4 people within the 72 on my floor that enjoyed brawl, the rest chose melee because they had more fun with it, and I was the only one that both played competitively and knew how to wavedash. Hell, I had to teach a few kids how to tech, a skill found in EVERY game. Your casual argument is invalid.

And sleek, don't you DARE group yourself with the brawl players here. I seem to remember you ranting frequently a year or two back about how items deserve a chance on the major level of competitively, and you called out many a person saying that they wouldn't stand a chance against you with items on, flat out insulting their intelligence. Your point on how it could bring more casual players into competitive smash was trumped by the amount of ignorance you bathed your point in. It seems you are doing the same thing here. You portray any small glitch in a fighting game (I see you brought up Street Fighter, great game ) as being a mistake by the programmer and something that should be frowned upon rather than utilized. Yet, at the same time, you use this wording "watching your character getting combo'd." This made me laugh my *** off. You just proved your rage as a sign of personal weakness! You insult the skill inflicting itself upon you because you CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF! I know this because I do the same thing when Umbra kicks my *** all day with his Peach, and I rage because he's better and I can't handle it, he makes use of the games every little quirk better than I ever could. It isn't the glitches themselves that make you upset, it's other players making better use of them than you ever could that really grinds your gears XD. PATHETIC! Don't be such a ***** about them and take the time to LEARN THEM! Geez, you certainly got that Brawl player trait in spades. We Brawl players don't learn, we rage. We can't handle the fact that somebody wanted to better themselves to the point where they got better than us, so we rage until whatever advantage that player supposedly had gets taken away without getting around it with skill. You need to actually practice these games, get your mind to work at high enough speeds to decipher actions on the screen, that's what competitive video games require anymore, they approach the border of it being a sport! These people didn't shun hidden techniques in the games, they embraced them, used them to improve their gameplay, spread those techniques to others so they may better themselves as well. These glitches, no matter which in the trilogy you look at, aren't a problem because WE ALL KNOW ABOUT SPREAD, AND SPREAD THEM FOR FUTURE USE. When my brother and I first got into competitive melee, we immediately found out about advanced techniques through the advanced how-to-play video put up by the community. I spent all summer that year learning how to do things I still can't even do properly XD, and we both got a lot better because we put genuine effort into it. After tourneys here at Penn State, we see many students asking us how to get better at the game, and these have been my three most popular answers to them: Stay Humble, Practice Hard, Smashboards. And I know I'm not the only one to help out a new player on here. So don't say that these AT's are building a gap between competitive and casual, because those willing to look for it will see that we're a community welcoming all new players with open arms, ready to teach them how to be up to speed with competitive smash. The only gap is the one you wish to make yourself.

So if you want to have fun, go ahead, but don't insult those who took the time to better themselves at the sport and got better than you. Accept the fact that they're better, and understand that you have two choices right now: take that challenge and do what you can to better yourself so may become a great part of our community, or stop caring so goddamn much. If you like, you can even leave Smashboards behind and just become an all-casual player, do what you wish, and I for one will accept it. But I will say this, ignorance is never welcome for parties trying to move forward. Learn to respect those greater than thou, or GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE, DUM-DUM!!


FOR YOUR HEALTH!!!!

Stick that on a goddamned business card...


EDIT: I mean, come on! You've been around longer than I have, you ****ing grandpa! Quit being senile, dammit!

 

[Palpi]

i think he's a troll.

 

[Sleek Media]

I didn't see this post before, but man, you're ****ing off your rocker!

My whole floor during my freshman year was more for melee, I was one of 4 people within the 72 on my floor that enjoyed brawl, the rest chose melee because they had more fun with it, and I was the only one that both played competitively and knew how to wavedash. Hell, I had to teach a few kids how to tech, a skill found in EVERY game. Your casual argument is invalid.

And sleek, don't you DARE group yourself with the brawl players here. I seem to remember you ranting frequently a year or two back about how items deserve a chance on the major level of competitively, and you called out many a person saying that they wouldn't stand a chance against you with items on, flat out insulting their intelligence. Your point on how it could bring more casual players into competitive smash was trumped by the amount of ignorance you bathed your point in. It seems you are doing the same thing here. You portray any small glitch in a fighting game (I see you brought up Street Fighter, great game ) as being a mistake by the programmer and something that should be frowned upon rather than utilized. Yet, at the same time, you use this wording "watching your character getting combo'd." This made me laugh my *** off. You just proved your rage as a sign of personal weakness! You insult the skill inflicting itself upon you because you CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF! I know this because I do the same thing when Umbra kicks my *** all day with his Peach, and I rage because he's better and I can't handle it, he makes use of the games every little quirk better than I ever could. It isn't the glitches themselves that make you upset, it's other players making better use of them than you ever could that really grinds your gears XD. PATHETIC! Don't be such a ***** about them and take the time to LEARN THEM! Geez, you certainly got that Brawl player trait in spades. We Brawl players don't learn, we rage. We can't handle the fact that somebody wanted to better themselves to the point where they got better than us, so we rage until whatever advantage that player supposedly had gets taken away without getting around it with skill. You need to actually practice these games, get your mind to work at high enough speeds to decipher actions on the screen, that's what competitive video games require anymore, they approach the border of it being a sport! These people didn't shun hidden techniques in the games, they embraced them, used them to improve their gameplay, spread those techniques to others so they may better themselves as well. These glitches, no matter which in the trilogy you look at, aren't a problem because WE ALL KNOW ABOUT SPREAD, AND SPREAD THEM FOR FUTURE USE. When my brother and I first got into competitive melee, we immediately found out about advanced techniques through the advanced how-to-play video put up by the community. I spent all summer that year learning how to do things I still can't even do properly XD, and we both got a lot better because we put genuine effort into it. After tourneys here at Penn State, we see many students asking us how to get better at the game, and these have been my three most popular answers to them: Stay Humble, Practice Hard, Smashboards. And I know I'm not the only one to help out a new player on here. So don't say that these AT's are building a gap between competitive and casual, because those willing to look for it will see that we're a community welcoming all new players with open arms, ready to teach them how to be up to speed with competitive smash. The only gap is the one you wish to make yourself.

So if you want to have fun, go ahead, but don't insult those who took the time to better themselves at the sport and got better than you. Accept the fact that they're better, and understand that you have two choices right now: take that challenge and do what you can to better yourself so may become a great part of our community, or stop caring so goddamn much. If you like, you can even leave Smashboards behind and just become an all-casual player, do what you wish, and I for one will accept it. But I will say this, ignorance is never welcome for parties trying to move forward. Learn to respect those greater than thou, or GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE, DUM-DUM!!


FOR YOUR HEALTH!!!!

Stick that on a goddamned business card...


EDIT: I mean, come on! You've been around longer than I have, you ****ing grandpa! Quit being senile, dammit!

You win. I can literally feel my body crushed under that massive wall of text whenever I try to read it. I'm going to
assume it was a much longer version of what all melee fanatics respond with when someone suggests that it isn't the greatest and most skillful game ever. It's a buggy party game in reality, but have fun in your bubble. Like I said, it's your choice to enjoy the game, but attaching pride to it is so hilariously stupid.

 

[Vudujin]

It's the best buggy party game ever.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

You win. I can literally feel my body crushed under that massive wall of text whenever I try to read it. I'm going to
assume it was a much longer version of what all melee fanatics respond with when someone suggests that it isn't the greatest and most skillful game ever. It's a buggy party game in reality, but have fun in your bubble. Like I said, it's your choice to enjoy the game, but attaching pride to it is so hilariously stupid.

You're kinda preaching to the wrong choir then, telling people who treat it as a borderline sport that it's just a game, it's like telling a soccer player who wants a scholarship to stop trying because it's just a game. These tourneys are for money, so we're gonna take it a bit seriously. Sorry.

 

[Sleek Media]

It's the best buggy party game ever.

Agreed.

By the way, has anyone done the "play as master hand" glitch just for laughs at a tournament?

 

[PGH Carroll]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO any melee/brawl players in or around Bloomsburg PA??

im a diving coach and have a girl competing at the state championships @ bucknell U.

tomorrow after 4ish ill be free at my hotel room. i have a wii and my controller. Dont have a disc or a CRT tv. just the tv in the hotel. i dont mind laggy brawl. but CANNOT play laggy melee lol.

PM me if your in the area and wanna play!!!!

 

[_umbra_]

stop in state college on the way home!

 

[iRJi]

So normally I would come in here to advertise in like a hype man manner. However, this time I want to take the time out and address you guys seriously about the next collision.

For the past 2 events, I hosted Metaknight Banned events. This brought out new players, and reinvited the community to play. However, I have been asked a lot recently to host a MK legal tournament. Due to many wishes, I will be doing so.

I like the community personally. Although there are some rough patches, I feel the only way to grow is to unify everyone and start having people go to tournaments. I made efforts to try and get both NJ/NY/CT to come out, and I want to expand. I want Collision III to be the biggest it can possibly get for a local. I want you guys to come and join us. The tournament date is May 12th. I hope you guys feel inspired to travel down and come. I am sure there are people who can house if that is needed as well.

Here are the links:
SmashBoards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=319924
AiB: http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=13216
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/260361204052767

I hope to hear from your guys soon.

 

[GOTM]

so i'm advertising someone else's tourney like a noob, but people should go to this, b/c i'm going and i don't go to many

http://www.smashboards.com/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1737

 

[M@v]

*knock knock* Pittsburgh to the rest of the state, can anyone read us?

Its looking like Pittsburgh is going to have at least 3 Brawl/melee tourneys this summer, quite possibly 4

 

[Life]

Keep us in suspense, why dontcha.

 

[M@v]

Even if I wanted to say I can't, because I'm not the top person involved in all of them . So even I dont know all the details.

 

[PGH Carroll]

ill tell you when your ready young incom

 

[Jimmyfosho]

get hype pittsburgh

 

[M@v]

Hey guys, considering that the western side of the state is becoming more and more active, and that the eastern side of the state hasn't really been heard from, I wanted to toss out the idea of a west/central PA PRs. The western side of the state rarely interacts with the east, outside of the rare state college carpool. I figure we'd start either keeping count of tourney wins and losses for this starting this month, or alternatively we could start at apex since a fair amount of Western PA was there. I'd figure 2 tourney minimum requirement for eligibility.

If you Philly guys would want me to keep it separate from here, I can always make a separate thread for this project

I want to do both Brawl and Melee, but I want to make sure everyone here is okay with that. Melee I don't know if you guys would want do whole state or not; especially since west and east don't interact all too much.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I'm for it. Pittsburgh and Philly never interact. Pittsburgh usually is Pittsburgh ,NEOH, and MI. Philly only goes to either NY/NJ or MD/VA rarely.

 

[Life]

finally a reason to get good at this game--*slaps self for acting that way*

I say "why not?"

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Hey guys, considering that the western side of the state is becoming more and more active, and that the eastern side of the state hasn't really been heard from, I wanted to toss out the idea of a west/central PA PRs. The western side of the state rarely interacts with the east, outside of the rare state college carpool. I figure we'd start either keeping count of tourney wins and losses for this starting this month, or alternatively we could start at apex since a fair amount of Western PA was there. I'd figure 2 tourney minimum requirement for eligibility.

If you Philly guys would want me to keep it separate from here, I can always make a separate thread for this project

I want to do both Brawl and Melee, but I want to make sure everyone here is okay with that. Melee I don't know if you guys would want do whole state or not; especially since west and east don't interact all too much.

i dont see a point in it because there isnt really any point to rank players who don't really beat anyone noteworthy but its up to you guys but use a different thread.

 

[silentSWAG]

check yourself

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I just think that it MAY make people become more competitive local wise.

 

[Ambix]

People will either get good on their own or they won't.

I've been involved in more than a few attempts at creating a power rankings system, both in PA and in memphis.

They don't affect anything except drama levels.

Start another power ranking system if they float your boat.......it's usually pretty entertaining to watch the fallout.

Don't justify them with this "we need to get more competitive" horse ****.

People will find ways to motivate themselves or they won't.