The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[chocolatejr9]

I'm not entirely sure if this counts as a "hot take" or not, but I DEFINETLY wanna get it off my chest: if we ever get remakes of Pokemon Black 2/White 2, I want them to make the Pokestar Studios opponents into actual Pokemon. I don't care if one of them is literally a giant woman, some of these designs look like actual Pokemon designs:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9star_Studios_opponents

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not entirely sure if this counts as a "hot take" or not, but I DEFINETLY wanna get it off my chest: if we ever get remakes of Pokemon Black 2/White 2, I want them to make the Pokestar Studios opponents into actual Pokemon. I don't care if one of them is literally a giant woman, some of these designs look like actual Pokemon designs:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9star_Studios_opponents

some of them would make for interesting pokemon

 

[Oddball]

I never cared for the idea that Super Mario Bros 3 didn't happen because it was just a play.

Every watch old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Sometimes Bugs and Elmer are just Bugs and Elmer, sometimes they're actors but they act the exact same way anyway, sometimes they're in medieval times, they've met for the "first time" dozens of times, and Bugs has referenced doing stuff to Elmer for decades. Somehow, despite not being able to fit together at all, it still counts.

That's how I think of the Mario Universe working. It has Bugs Bunny style continuity.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I never cared for the idea that Super Mario Bros 3 didn't happen because it was just a play.

Every watch old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Sometimes Bugs and Elmer are just Bugs and Elmer, sometimes they're actors but they act the exact same way anyway, sometimes they're in medieval times, they've met for the "first time" dozens of times, and Bugs has referenced doing stuff to Elmer for decades. Somehow, despite not being able to fit together at all, it still counts.

That's how I think of the Mario Universe working. It has Bugs Bunny style continuity.

I've been saying this for ages, for some reason people want to view Mario like it's Dragon Ball or Marvel, an epic tale of good and evil in a vast and highly developed world, when really it's a lot more like SpongeBob or Popeye - the rules of the world don't have to be consistent, they can retread old ground as much as they want, and while stories with high stakes are good they're also an outlier (and should stay that way) - I feel the same applies to a lesser extent with Sonic, but in that case I'd view it more in the sense of Power Rangers or 80s Ninja Turtles. (the cartoon, not the comics or movies of course)

I remember seeing someone, might've been on CharacterRant, complain about the whole "Bowser is a good guy after all!" meme with the parental controls video by listing all of Bowser's various atrocities - kinda missing that Bowser isn't Beerus or Lex Luthor, he's Bluto or Plankton: he can be anywhere from a maniacal monarch, to a pathetic pest, to a reluctant ally, to an outright hero - it just runs on whatever's most fun in the context of a given game. Same goes for Wario.

 

[fogbadge]

I never cared for the idea that Super Mario Bros 3 didn't happen because it was just a play.

Every watch old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Sometimes Bugs and Elmer are just Bugs and Elmer, sometimes they're actors but they act the exact same way anyway, sometimes they're in medieval times, they've met for the "first time" dozens of times, and Bugs has referenced doing stuff to Elmer for decades. Somehow, despite not being able to fit together at all, it still counts.

That's how I think of the Mario Universe working. It has Bugs Bunny style continuity.

its goomba season. koopa season

 

[Opossum]

I never cared for the idea that Super Mario Bros 3 didn't happen because it was just a play.

Every watch old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Sometimes Bugs and Elmer are just Bugs and Elmer, sometimes they're actors but they act the exact same way anyway, sometimes they're in medieval times, they've met for the "first time" dozens of times, and Bugs has referenced doing stuff to Elmer for decades. Somehow, despite not being able to fit together at all, it still counts.

That's how I think of the Mario Universe working. It has Bugs Bunny style continuity.

People get really annoying about Super Mario Bros. 3's in-universe canonicity. Some folks will argue til they're blue in the face that the events of the game never happened because it's presented as a play but like...they never take into account how many plays are based on true, historic events.

 

[Quillion]

Speaking of canonicity: Zelda.

Nintendo thinks it's a good idea to put all the games in the series in one timeline.

Some fans want to treat every single game as a standalone title.

As for my thoughts on either approach?

Everything in the "Downfall Timeline" should be a separate standalone timeline.

The "Hero of Time Saga" and "Wind Saga" should be another timeline with the two-way split.

And Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild should be one last standalone timeline.

 

[fogbadge]

ive said it before and i'll say it again fans care more about the canon than nintendo does

 

[Quillion]

ive said it before and i'll say it again fans care more about the canon than nintendo does

That is true on both sides.

Still though, while there are quite a bit of times where some Zelda games are enhanced by explicitly following previous games, some are held back by it. I'd say Breath of the Wild directly referencing events from Ocarina of Time and retaining Hylia and Fi from Skyward Sword significantly held that game's story/lore back.

And then there are games that are held back by not tying into other games like Skyward Sword itself which was held by having no ties to chronologically later games other than Sheik's Goddess Harp.

 

[fogbadge]

That is true on both sides.

Still though, while there are quite a bit of times where some Zelda games are enhanced by explicitly following previous games, some are held back by it. I'd say Breath of the Wild directly referencing events from Ocarina of Time and retaining Hylia and Fi from Skyward Sword significantly held that game's story/lore back.

And then there are games that are held back by not tying into other games like Skyward Sword itself which was held by having no ties to chronologically later games other than Sheik's Goddess Harp.

there’s just no pleasing you is there

 

[Quillion]

there’s just no pleasing you is there

Not true; A Link to the Past is definitely strengthened by focusing on its own lore instead of building from the bits and pieces that Zelda 1 and 2 set up such as the Magic Sword being the strongest sword and Link apparently being Christian.

On the other hand, Wind Waker is strengthened by serving as an explicit finale of sorts to the Hero of Time Saga.

I can at least give that Zelda, even at its worst, never seems like it bends over backwards to continue an ongoing narrative unlike Kingdom Hearts circa Dream Drop Distance and KH3.

 

[Pupp135]

For fun I’ll drop in some unique or hot takes.

My favorite Mario Party is 5 for the Fish Upon a Star minigame (I like The Final Countdown, but I love Fish Upon a Star more thematically).

Mario Kart DS is the Mario Kart that gives me the most nostalgia for its battle mode.

Fire Emblem Echoes is one of my favorites in the series.

 

[fogbadge]

For fun I’ll drop in some unique or hot takes.

My favorite Mario Party is 5 for the Fish Upon a Star minigame (I like The Final Countdown, but I love Fish Upon a Star more thematically).

Mario Kart DS is the Mario Kart that gives me the most nostalgia for its battle mode.

Fire Emblem Echoes is one of my favorites in the series.

i don't think those are hot takes. certainly not the last one

 

[Quillion]

While Super Paper Mario was indirectly responsible for homogenizing the Mario franchise, I believe something good came of it:

Because Nintendo won't let their teams and partners use Mario as a dumping ground for every weird gameplay idea or quirky character they can come up with, they're now more encouraged to turn those ideas into their own IPs. I don't think it's any coincidence that Splatoon, ARMS, and Ring Fit all debuted after the Wii era.

 

[fogbadge]

While Super Paper Mario was indirectly responsible for homogenizing the Mario franchise, I believe something good came of it:

Because Nintendo won't let their teams and partners use Mario as a dumping ground for every weird gameplay idea or quirky character they can come up with, they're now more encouraged to turn those ideas into their own IPs. I don't think it's any coincidence that Splatoon, ARMS, and Ring Fit all debuted after the Wii era.

i feel like you missed a lot of Nintendos games of that era

 

[Quillion]

i feel like you missed a lot of Nintendos games of that era

The games you speak of were largely low-budget experimental titles designed more to show off cool ideas than make an impact.

 

[fogbadge]

The games you speak of were largely low-budget experimental titles designed more to show off cool ideas than make an impact.

wii fit was low budget? the game that came with a peripheral? wii sports maybe but the vast majority of them were not the case

more to the point the entire console was gameplay experimentation so nearly every ip had such treatment

 

[Quillion]

wii fit was low budget? the game that came with a peripheral? wii sports maybe but the vast majority of them were not the case

more to the point the entire console was gameplay experimentation so nearly every ip had such treatment

Touché on Wii Fit, but I'm not so sure with other IPs.

2D platformers like NSMBWii and KirbyRtDL used the Wiimote as NES controllers, while the Wii Zelda games largely upheld traditions from OoT-WW while sticking motion controls onto the swordplay in different ways.

 

[fogbadge]

Touché on Wii Fit, but I'm not so sure with other IPs.

2D platformers like NSMBWii and KirbyRtDL used the Wiimote as NES controllers, while the Wii Zelda games largely upheld traditions from OoT-WW while sticking motion controls onto the swordplay in different ways.

well in the case of TP it was still just a GC with motion controls added on and SS was the game they'd been wanting to make with motion controls

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly, I think in general, the growing backlash to various gimmicky franchise titles (especially spin-offs) in the Wii and Wii U era made Nintendo finally back off on using main IP's for particularly out there gameplay experiments and let them be their own thing. While they may mean certain series are now in hibernation (because the company seemingly can't think of anything to do with it unless there's some wacky interaction), there has been noticeably less fan hostility towards first party releases overall because of that, and even most that does exist is geared towards the lack of content at release than problems at the fundamental core of the title.

 

[Diddy Kong]

While Super Paper Mario was indirectly responsible for homogenizing the Mario franchise, I believe something good came of it:

Because Nintendo won't let their teams and partners use Mario as a dumping ground for every weird gameplay idea or quirky character they can come up with, they're now more encouraged to turn those ideas into their own IPs. I don't think it's any coincidence that Splatoon, ARMS, and Ring Fit all debuted after the Wii era.

Super Paper Mario was actually great I feel. Paper Mario would've been better if they kept that direction compared to what happened after.

I also rather have bigger IPs with experiment gimmicks if that means a release, it's less likely ARMS and Ring Fit get sequels, however I can't picture a dormant Nintendo series with the gimmicks of those games. But I do know I'd take a good quality DK experimental gimmick game over ARMS and Ring Fit in a heartbeat.

 

[Quillion]

Super Paper Mario was actually great I feel. Paper Mario would've been better if they kept that direction compared to what happened after.

I also rather have bigger IPs with experiment gimmicks if that means a release, it's less likely ARMS and Ring Fit get sequels, however I can't picture a dormant Nintendo series with the gimmicks of those games. But I do know I'd take a good quality DK experimental gimmick game over ARMS and Ring Fit in a heartbeat.

Super Paper Mario was fun enough, don't get me wrong, but like I said earlier:

Super Paper Mario didn't need to be a Mario game, and it shouldn't have been one either.

While I don't agree with the overcorrective restrictions imposed on the Paper Mario series (and possibly the entire franchise's spin-off material) since Sticker Star, I agree with WHY they did it: they felt that Super Paper Mario was too far removed from the Mario universe.

If the Mario franchise took SPM's direction afterwards, it would have become a dumping ground for every quirky idea Nintendo's teams and partners would have come up with.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I really don't like the whole "cute and cuddly but with secret darker lore" schtick Nintendo are known for, reads to me like they're trying way too hard to be validated as "cool" by the GTA/COD crowd - not unlike the 2000s Sonic games or the way Nintendo marketed their games in the 90s.

In general, I wish Nintendo could return to their "kiddy" image. Call me a contratian all you want, (because I am) but I'm kinda embarassed about playing a console that's widely considered as hip and cool as MS and Sony's offerings.

 

[Opossum]

I really don't like the whole "cute and cuddly but with secret darker lore" schtick Nintendo are known for, reads to me like they're trying way too hard to be validated as "cool" by the GTA/COD crowd - not unlike the 2000s Sonic games or the way Nintendo marketed their games in the 90s.

In general, I wish Nintendo could return to their "kiddy" image. Call me a contratian all you want, (because I am) but I'm kinda embarassed about playing a console that's widely considered as hip and cool as MS and Sony's offerings.

I mean even still that really only applies to Kirby, right? Like, you could maybe make a case for Splatoon as well, but the fact that it's set after the downfall of humanity is mainly treated as a cautionary tale about global warming than anything.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I mean even still that really only applies to Kirby, right? Like, you could maybe make a case for Splatoon as well, but the fact that it's set after the downfall of humanity is mainly treated as a cautionary tale about global warming than anything.

Yeah, I'm mostly referring to Kirby and Splatoon, but it also applies to Pokémon to an extent

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Yeah, I'm mostly referring to Kirby and Splatoon, but it also applies to Pokémon to an extent

I see what you mean but I feel like since those series started with under the surface dark elements in them they’re fine. It would be a different case if they were shoving in really dark elements to a game that didn’t have them before

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I'm mostly referring to Kirby and Splatoon, but it also applies to Pokémon to an extent

pokemons been like that since day one

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really don't like the whole "cute and cuddly but with secret darker lore" schtick Nintendo are known for, reads to me like they're trying way too hard to be validated as "cool" by the GTA/COD crowd - not unlike the 2000s Sonic games or the way Nintendo marketed their games in the 90s.

In general, I wish Nintendo could return to their "kiddy" image. Call me a contratian all you want, (because I am) but I'm kinda embarassed about playing a console that's widely considered as hip and cool as MS and Sony's offerings.

I feel like it's mainly an issue with fandoms than the franchises themselves.

As you mentioned, it's really only an issue with Kirby, but it's also a core part of the franchise so it isn't very jarring.

 

[Perkilator]

Aside from actual Kingdom Hearts ports, I think there are some missed opportunities for Switch ports like:

• Dead Rising Triple Pack
• Soul Calibur II HD Online
• Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
• Sakura Wars 2019

Just to name a few. Any others I'm missing (besides the obvious)?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Aside from actual Kingdom Hearts ports, I think there are some missed opportunities for Switch ports like:

• Dead Rising Triple Pack
• Soul Calibur II HD Online
• Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
• Sakura Wars 2019

Just to name a few. Any others I'm missing (besides the obvious)?

There's been a few I think:

Mainline Tomb Raider Titles
Devil May Cry 4
Disney Afternoon Collection
Castlevania Requiem
Metal Gear Solid HD Collection
Fallout 3/New Vegas
Mass Effect Trilogy

 

[Quillion]

Castlevania Requiem
Metal Gear Solid HD Collection

I was just going to say the latter, but both will require that Konami stops being so stupid.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I was just going to say the latter, but both will require that Konami stops being so stupid.

Given how all in Konami's gone with the Switch (especially in Japan), I almost wonder if there's something specifically holding these back. I've seen speculation that Sony may have had a hand in the Requiem collection (hence why it's not on any platforms other than the PS4), and with Metal Gear who knows? Company's not done anything with the franchise since Survive (barring series cameos in stuff like Bomberman and Smash) so the hopeful side of me is guessing there will eventually some sort of multiplat release of various games planned, but only when they've got their ducks in a row and if they can keep the costs down.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Given how all in Konami's gone with the Switch (especially in Japan), I almost wonder if there's something specifically holding these back. I've seen speculation that Sony may have had a hand in the Requiem collection (hence why it's not on any platforms other than the PS4), and with Metal Gear who knows? Company's not done anything with the franchise since Survive (barring series cameos in stuff like Bomberman and Smash) so the hopeful side of me is guessing there will eventually some sort of multiplat release of various games planned, but only when they've got their ducks in a row and if they can keep the costs down.

I DID hear a rumor that Konami wants nothing to do with anything Kojima worked on, but that's all it was: a rumor.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Konami does own the series at the end of the day, and their use of the IP in stuff like Pachinko machines does suggest they're willing to use it when it suits them. My own personal suspicion is that they're aware of the backlash after the split with Kojima (and especially after Survive) so they want to tread very carefully with future releases, and that given the company moving away from triple A gaming budgets they don't want the cost of any ports/remakes going out of control.

If I were in Konami's place and I wanted to ruthlessly maximize profits while minimizing the bad PR? I'd do a remake of Ghost Babel. It was originally a Game Boy Color title, so there's plenty to expand on, Kojima didn't direct it, no one can say a remake is ruining his vision, and it's an alternate universe release, so it wouldn't affect the mainline canon anyway. It would be a safe title that would still be new to most of the audience, and wouldn't step on too many people's toes overall.

 

[Quillion]

Given how all in Konami's gone with the Switch (especially in Japan), I almost wonder if there's something specifically holding these back. I've seen speculation that Sony may have had a hand in the Requiem collection (hence why it's not on any platforms other than the PS4), and with Metal Gear who knows? Company's not done anything with the franchise since Survive (barring series cameos in stuff like Bomberman and Smash) so the hopeful side of me is guessing there will eventually some sort of multiplat release of various games planned, but only when they've got their ducks in a row and if they can keep the costs down.

Konami indeed partnered with Sony IE to make Requiem (which is even dumber than Capcom partnering with the same for SF5).

Apparently all Konami really want to do nowadays is throw their IP around and make money off of it, not do anything with it internally.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I dont see why Nintendo should care a **** about reviving their old IPs, would be cool? Sure, they need? No, heck, I can bet that most people who begs for revivals of F-Zero, Golden Sun, Mother, etc wouldnt even play the game.

 

[Quillion]

I just learned that Kirby was intended by Sakurai to be "gender unknown".

There was a problem fetching the tweet

(Source cited by the tweet in a followup)

Kirby's VA Makiko Ohmoto has corroborated this as well:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In light of this, I'd like to say that interpreting Kirby as being non-binary (agender more specifically) makes a lot more sense for them rather than assigning them to be male or female given that they're a nonhuman creature with barely any gendered characteristics.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I honestly just don't see why people minds that much how refer to a fictional pink ball.

 

[Quillion]

I honestly just don't see why people minds that much how refer to a fictional pink ball.

Might as well be ahead of the curve before HAL/Nintendo officially makes Kirby agender in all possible regions. They've made Gigant Edge and Bonkers gender-unknown in Forgotten Land (Before for Edge, Before for Bonkers, After for both).
----

I think the Wii U's "giant DS" setup needs to be revisited down the line, but only when technology has progressed enough that a console can efficiently stream screen info via Bluetooth to four wireless controllers at once.

They could also introduce a screen controller for Switch if they want to revisit it sooner.

 

[fogbadge]

I just learned that Kirby was intended by Sakurai to be "gender unknown".

There was a problem fetching the tweet

(Source cited by the tweet in a followup)

Kirby's VA Makiko Ohmoto has corroborated this as well:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In light of this, I'd like to say that interpreting Kirby as being non-binary (agender more specifically) makes a lot more sense for them rather than assigning them to be male or female given that they're a nonhuman creature with barely any gendered characteristics.

wow you are so slow on the uptake