The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[Opossum]

The pokemon games only letting you use four moves at a time really holds the series back, I don’t see why you can’t just have more moves at a time because if it’s balanced right it would make the games a lot more fun.

For what it's worth, it would be really bad for competitive Pokémon, which GameFreak and TPCi do care about (to an extent...looking at you, Zacian). WolfeGlicke did a really good video about the topic and its potential consequences, so I'll link it below, but for a tl;dw...


- Due to how many Pokémon need to pick between several coverage moves right now, dealing with top offensive threats is doable with good prediction. Adding a fifth move slot makes it so they can run an additional coverage move, making planning for certain threats moot; they will kill you.

- From that, it disproportionately helps offensive Pokémon over defensive Pokémon. Offensive Pokémon gain a powerful offensive tool, while defensive ones gain pretty much nothing and now run a greater risk of being instantly KO'd by a super effective move due to the foe having more coverage.

- As a logical conclusion, it leads to a "rich get richer" scenario. The Pokémon that already rule competitive (for example, Zacian, Regieleki, Rillaboom, Incineroar, and Urshifu) would become exponentially better with another move. However, due to opportunity cost, pretty much everything else becomes worse, because by not using the top Pokémon, who were already overcentralizing and are now even better, you're crippling your team by using literally anything else. The difference in viability grows way too wide, with some of the ones who were already struggling having a hard time getting a fourth move worth using, never mind a fifth.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I feel that Pokémon is a series that could do with a seperate "tournament edition" series - from an outsider looking in, it often feels like what casual fans want directly contradicts what competitive fans want (Dexit for example) compared to something like Smash where compromise is possible but just hasn't really been properly devoted to. Yet again, haven't played Pokémon since SuMo so my two cents may be irrelevant.

 

[Opossum]

I feel that Pokémon is a series that could do with a seperate "tournament edition" series - from an outsider looking in, it often feels like what casual fans want directly contradicts what competitive fans want (Dexit for example) compared to something like Smash where compromise is possible but just hasn't really been properly devoted to. Yet again, haven't played Pokémon since SuMo so my two cents may be irrelevant.

Actually something similar to what you're suggesting has been tossed around as an idea in the fandom since the Dexit days, funny enough.

Basically a not-insignificant number of people want GameFreak to make a sort of battle simulator game, like the Stadium games and Battle Revolution of the past, to allow it to become the de facto "competitive" game. It wouldn't have the need for story stuff (or at least not nearly as much of it) and as such may be able to actually add every Pokémon, it would be the game used for official tournaments, and if they wanted to be extra nice, they could add a Battle Frontier like system for a single player mode, since that's a big requested returning feature from more hardcore fans.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The pokemon games only letting you use four moves at a time really holds the series back, I don’t see why you can’t just have more moves at a time because if it’s balanced right it would make the games a lot more fun.

This is the one mechanic they need to let go of. It makes no sense for Pokemon to forget how to use simple basic attacks as Tackle, or Growl, or their weaker elemental attacks as Ember, Water Gun and Thunder Shock. Everything they learn by leveling up, they should remember. Just add a limit on the amount of moves they can learn beyond that. Makes it feel a whole lot more natural.

Also about the part of offensive Pokemon becoming stronger, how about increasing the amount of HP of Pokemon then ? So a super effective attack won't automatically results in a OHKO? Buff defenses and HP overall. Problem solved, maybe ? Or implement stance changes like Legends Arceus did in a way, with the fast and weak style and strong style , but more advanced?

I also like the idea of having different "rule sets". For competitive fighting, 4 moves would only be allowed, these would apply in Gym battles for example and rival or other 1 on 1 battles. But against wild Pokemon or trainer encounters or maybe against the enemy teams? Everything a Pokemon naturally learns is allowed. This makes EV training for example more bearable, or places you need to explore and there's no Pokemon Center in sight.

 

[fogbadge]

This is the one mechanic they need to let go of. It makes no sense for Pokemon to forget how to use simple basic attacks as Tackle, or Growl, or their weaker elemental attacks as Ember, Water Gun and Thunder Shock. Everything they learn by leveling up, they should remember. Just add a limit on the amount of moves they can learn beyond that. Makes it feel a whole lot more natural.

as opposed to the idea that the moves are getting stronger and become entirely new moves?

 

[Lenidem]

Next thing we know, Mario, Peach, Bowser and Luigi are like this too.

Oh my God! So that's why the old games told you "how many Mario you have left"?!

 

[Quillion]

It makes no sense for Pokemon to forget how to use simple basic attacks as Tackle, or Growl, or their weaker elemental attacks as Ember, Water Gun and Thunder Shock. Everything they learn by leveling up, they should remember. Just add a limit on the amount of moves they can learn beyond that. Makes it feel a whole lot more natural.

Isn't that pretty much what Legends Arceus does? You're pretty much your own Move Tutor and you can swap moves in and out whenever you want.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wave Race should come back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Attempting Metroid Prime 4 was a bad idea, there's already a great and capable team for Metroid with Mercury Stream. Not gonna be that guy, but yeah, Retro Studios got pulled away from the only real chance Donkey Kong had to become it's absolute greatest. Whereas I think Metroid Dread was close to perfection for Metroid. Not that Metroid also doesn't deserve more attention, but yeah, likely they had to pick and choose and I think they choose wrong.

 

[Quillion]

Attempting Metroid Prime 4 was a bad idea, there's already a great and capable team for Metroid with Mercury Stream. Not gonna be that guy, but yeah, Retro Studios got pulled away from the only real chance Donkey Kong had to become it's absolute greatest. Whereas I think Metroid Dread was close to perfection for Metroid. Not that Metroid also doesn't deserve more attention, but yeah, likely they had to pick and choose and I think they choose wrong.

I think that Metroid Prime is such a weird mix of genres (FPS and 3D Metroidvania with puzzle elements) that I don't think Mercury Steam would be able to tackle it. I don't think any team but Retro is able to get it right.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Attempting Metroid Prime 4 was a bad idea, there's already a great and capable team for Metroid with Mercury Stream. Not gonna be that guy, but yeah, Retro Studios got pulled away from the only real chance Donkey Kong had to become it's absolute greatest. Whereas I think Metroid Dread was close to perfection for Metroid. Not that Metroid also doesn't deserve more attention, but yeah, likely they had to pick and choose and I think they choose wrong.

You realize metroid prime 4 was announced before samus returns even released right? Why would they trust mercury steam with their big new 3D metroid game in that situation?

And what do you mean by the only chance for donkey kong to become its greatest? You realize retro can still go back to it right? Or are you referring to the rumors of another studio working on a 3D donkey kong?

 

[fogbadge]

the battle frontier was overrated and it's good pokemon dropped it

 

[CastletonSnob]

Remember when people whined about Steve from Minecraft being in Smash?

Minecraft is only the most popular video game of this generation (I mean people generation, not console generation). It deserves to be represented in Smash.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

are we allowed to talk third parties in here? I just wanted to say that I want every switch-released square enix game to be 2D-HD from now on. Release a final fantasy game in that style, Square, even if it's the tower defense game. I am begging you.

Also, Wario Land is still better than Wario Ware and should be the main Wario series don't @ me (ware is good tho)

 

[Quillion]

are we allowed to talk third parties in here? I just wanted to say that I want every switch-released square enix game to be 2D-HD from now on. Release a final fantasy game in that style, Square, even if it's the tower defense game. I am begging you.

Also, Wario Land is still better than Wario Ware and should be the main Wario series don't @ me (ware is good tho)

I feel like they can go further and have Square Enix's Bravely/Octopath team collaborate with other developers to make HD-2D installments/spin-offs of their franchises.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I feel like they can go further and have Square Enix's Bravely/Octopath team collaborate with other developers to make HD-2D installments/spin-offs of their franchises.

I already said earlier I'd like remakes of the GBA Golden Sun games in this style. Camelot probably isn't gonna be able to do it without diminishing the Mario sports games , so why not Square + Nintendo?

 

[fogbadge]

I already said earlier I'd like remakes of the GBA Golden Sun games in this style. Camelot probably isn't gonna be able to do it without diminishing the Mario sports games , so why not Square + Nintendo?

or have square plus Nintendo make the sport games like they’ve done

 

[Diddy Kong]

or have square plus Nintendo make the sport games like they’ve done

We might have to consider that Camelot doesn't really have most of the people who worked on Golden Sun in their team anymore, they haven't made a RPG since Dark Dawn, but Square drops them every other week or so. I feel like they, under the wing of Nintendo , would be able to do Golden Sun justice. I mean they're the makers of Dragon Quest after all. When I played Dragon Quest for the first time with 11, I got major Golden Sun vibes.

 

[fogbadge]

We might have to consider that Camelot doesn't really have most of the people who worked on Golden Sun in their team anymore, they haven't made a RPG since Dark Dawn, but Square drops them every other week or so. I feel like they, under the wing of Nintendo , would be able to do Golden Sun justice. I mean they're the makers of Dragon Quest after all. When I played Dragon Quest for the first time with 11, I got major Golden Sun vibes.

I got different vibes when I played DQ. But I take your point

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I've been thinking about the Switch's relative place among Nintendo consoles as of late. Online it appears to he pretty common to place it high up ranking wise, someone even saying its the very best. My personal placement has been at the number two behind the SNES and I've been going back and forth as to why it's ended up with the proverbial silver medal. While personal nostalgia certainly plays a part given how much the Super Nintendo meant to me, I think ultimately the big reason is that even 5 years later, the Switch still feels like it hasn't quite lived up to its full potential.

I've gushed about indie titles on it before and its strongly enhanced the Switch library so obviously that its not really worth dwelling on. AAA third party is fairly scant, but there have been some surprising exclusives that do beef it up more than many Nintendo generations. Major first party wise its pretty strong. Great Mario, great Zelda (albeit shared with the Wii U until BotW 2 comes out), great Metroid, and so on. And yet even beyond the unfortunate gaps (DK, Star Fox) I think the real pity is that so much of the quirky first party experiments of the DS/3DS eras haven't really come back.

The system's sold gangbusters and in a great position to further expose people to smaller IP and yet there's no Rhythm Heaven or Pushmo out to experience. Art Academy, Custom Robo, Dillon's Rolling Western, even Style Savy; there's so many fascinating little series that could have benefited from (even a digital download only) existence on the Switch marketplace that have fallen by the wayside. I know this gets close to "entitled gamer expects every first party IP on the current console", however its more of a lament that even with how much contemporary Nintendo has corrected their major mistakes in previous years that there's certain magic of its prior portable console releases that's been lost with the current one.

Essentially that's why I still put the SNES above it because given the context of the time period, it did feel like it was hitting on all cylinders. Some weak spots in genre for sure (shoot em ups & sports games) and there were certainly some missed opportunities in what didn't get released (and some would argue what didn't get localized). The difference though is that I don't really look at it and think "what could have been" in quite the same way I do the Switch, even with as successful as the latter has been; that question still lingers with me.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I've been thinking about the Switch's relative place among Nintendo consoles as of late. Online it appears to he pretty common to place it high up ranking wise, someone even saying its the very best. My personal placement has been at the number two behind the SNES and I've been going back and forth as to why it's ended up with the proverbial silver medal. While personal nostalgia certainly plays a part given how much the Super Nintendo meant to me, I think ultimately the big reason is that even 5 years later, the Switch still feels like it hasn't quite lived up to its full potential.

I've gushed about indie titles on it before and its strongly enhanced the Switch library so obviously that its not really worth dwelling on. AAA third party is fairly scant, but there have been some surprising exclusives that do beef it up more than many Nintendo generations. Major first party wise its pretty strong. Great Mario, great Zelda (albeit shared with the Wii U until BotW 2 comes out), great Metroid, and so on. And yet even beyond the unfortunate gaps (DK, Star Fox) I think the real pity is that so much of the quirky first party experiments of the DS/3DS eras haven't really come back.

The system's sold gangbusters and in a great position to further expose people to smaller IP and yet there's no Rhythm Heaven or Pushmo out to experience. Art Academy, Custom Robo, Dillon's Rolling Western, even Style Savy; there's so many fascinating little series that could have benefited from (even a digital download only) existence on the Switch marketplace that have fallen by the wayside. I know this gets close to "entitled gamer expects every first party IP on the current console", however its more of a lament that even with how much contemporary Nintendo has corrected their major mistakes in previous years that there's certain magic of its prior portable console releases that's been lost with the current one.

Essentially that's why I still put the SNES above it because given the context of the time period, it did feel like it was hitting on all cylinders. Some weak spots in genre for sure (shoot em ups & sports games) and there were certainly some missed opportunities in what didn't get released (and some would argue what didn't get localized). The difference though is that I don't really look at it and think "what could have been" in quite the same way I do the Switch, even with as successful as the latter has been; that question still lingers with me.

Well, I don't know how much this'll affect your opinion, but this video from Good Vibes Gaming at least explains why so many Nintendo IPs often get left to the wayside, even in the Switch era:

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Well, I don't know how much this'll affect your opinion, but this video from Good Vibes Gaming at least explains why so many Nintendo IPs often get left to the wayside, even in the Switch era:

Definitely understandable, but still unfortunate given how much could still be done with various franchises in hibernation.

I think a lot of this contemporary issue has its roots in certain developmental decisions made a decade (or more) ago from Nintendo. Its been fantastic to see them embrace the indie scene so thoroughly and gradually make some headway in doing something with the smaller studios in the last few years. As I've noted it was unfortunate that such relationships weren't pursued even prior to that and there was an even more solid foundation of semi-independent developers working closely with Nintendo that could have taken hold early in the Wii U era rather than essentially after it. In all honesty I suspect the real fruits of the company's flourishing dynamic with these studios have yet to be seen and that we might very well see some unlikely revivals.

Its just a pity that they'll likely be on the next console and not the Switch.

 

[Quillion]

TBH, I don't see a lot of indie studios meeting Nintendo's incredibly strict (not necessarily high) standards for handling their IP. Most of them might get fired shortly after a successful pitch.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, I don't know how much this'll affect your opinion, but this video from Good Vibes Gaming at least explains why so many Nintendo IPs often get left to the wayside, even in the Switch era:

as opposed to they just don't make the money?

 

[Opossum]

as opposed to they just don't make the money?

It's significantly more complicated than that.

 

[fogbadge]

It's significantly more complicated than that.

ill take your word for it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

ill take your word for it

They just don't always have the manpower available.

Let's look at say DK. Those games are very profitable, but there are usually very few studios who have free time in their rotation. So a new DK game doesn't get made, because there's no free development team. Nintendo's resources aren't infinite.

 

[fogbadge]

They just don't always have the manpower available.

Let's look at say DK. Those games are very profitable, but there are usually very few studios who have free time in their rotation. So a new DK game doesn't get made, because there's no free development team. Nintendo's resources aren't infinite.

well that much is obvious. we haven't had rhythm paradise cause the went from one wario ware to another. and pullblox well IS seems to focus most of their effort onto FE and a bit on PM

 

[Diddy Kong]

They just don't always have the manpower available.

Let's look at say DK. Those games are very profitable, but there are usually very few studios who have free time in their rotation. So a new DK game doesn't get made, because there's no free development team. Nintendo's resources aren't infinite.

The fact DK is always the number one prime example when people speak of neglected IPs of Nintendo makes this just.. hurtful

 

[Dinoman96]

Losing Rare really was the death cry of DK being one of Nintendo's most consistent and popular franchises, huh. They really were to DK as Intelligent Systems and HAL Labs are to Fire Emblem and Kirby respectively.

But honestly, if Rare was already losing interest in Banjo prior to the buyout, I kinda wonder how better DK would fair if they were still with Nintendo. It's worth pointing out that by then, the teams within Rare that had worked on the original DKC trilogy and DK64 were already off doing their own original projects like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo, any DK related project that was in development back then like DK Coconut Crackers and Donkey Kong Racing were being made by different Rare teams.

 

[fogbadge]

Losing Rare really was the death cry of DK being one of Nintendo's most consistent and popular franchises, huh. They really were to DK as Intelligent Systems and HAL Labs are to Fire Emblem and Kirby respectively.

well not quite as hal and is created kirby and fe themselves

 

[Diddy Kong]

Losing Rare really was the death cry of DK being one of Nintendo's most consistent and popular franchises, huh. They really were to DK as Intelligent Systems and HAL Labs are to Fire Emblem and Kirby respectively.

But honestly, if Rare was already losing interest in Banjo prior to the buyout, I kinda wonder how better DK would fair if they were still with Nintendo. It's worth pointing out that by then, the teams within Rare that had worked on the original DKC trilogy and DK64 were already off doing their own original projects like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo, any DK related project that was in development back then like DK Coconut Crackers and Donkey Kong Racing were being made by different Rare teams.

It wasn't a death sentence, I felt that Rare didn't really gave their full effort with Donkey Kong prior to the buyout. DK64 has a lot of character and great presentation, but it didn't have the polish and love DKC and DKC2 had, or Banjo had. They where mostly focused on their own creative projects, and Nintendo would have had to force them into making DK and Banjo eventually. They weren't all that much like HAL or Intelligent Systems cause Kirby and Fire Emblem are top priority to them. DK was never top priority, not by Rare, not by Retro, and now not even by Nintendo themselves. And unlike say, Metroid, the IP doesn't change hands often. Even more shameful, the most dedicated studio to DK was PAON and they're gone

 

[Dinoman96]

It wasn't a death sentence, I felt that Rare didn't really gave their full effort with Donkey Kong prior to the buyout. DK64 has a lot of character and great presentation, but it didn't have the polish and love DKC and DKC2 had, or Banjo had.

I think that's just because DK64 for the most part was made by a separate new team within Rare. DKC1 and DKC2 were made by the same crew that would wound up giving us Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, led by Gregg Mayles. Although I do believe after the latter game was finished, this team helped out on DK64 as a support team later in development. Gregg for example had designed the entire final King K. Rool boss fight, the only game design he did for the whole game.

 

[Oddball]

There is an absolutely HUGE difference between what fans like about Metroid and what Nintendo actually does.

Fans like Samus because she's a tough as nails, no-nonsense buttkicking bounty hunter.
And Nintendo's reaction to that is "Well, what if she wasn't tough as nails, no-nonsense, and didn't do bounties at all?"

Fans tend to like the simple quite, isolated story that's implied though exploring and encounters.
Then Nintendo goes "Well, what if we give everything this super deep and developed backstory? You'd care about all that, right?"

 

[fogbadge]

There is an absolutely HUGE difference between what fans like about Metroid and what Nintendo actually does.

Fans like Samus because she's a tough as nails, no-nonsense buttkicking bounty hunter.
And Nintendo's reaction to that is "Well, what if she wasn't tough as nails, no-nonsense, and didn't do bounties at all?"

Fans tend to like the simple quite, isolated story that's implied though exploring and encounters.
Then Nintendo goes "Well, what if we give everything this super deep and developed backstory? You'd care about all that, right?"

you’re thinking of koei techmo

 

[Dinoman96]

you’re thinking of koei techmo

The actual plot of Metroid Other M was written by Nintendo, aka Yoshio Sakamoto lol

I don't really get that post anyways considering they're clearly course corrected with Samus Returns and Metroid Dread, games both Sakamoto had produced.

 

[Troykv]

It wasn't a death sentence, I felt that Rare didn't really gave their full effort with Donkey Kong prior to the buyout. DK64 has a lot of character and great presentation, but it didn't have the polish and love DKC and DKC2 had, or Banjo had. They where mostly focused on their own creative projects, and Nintendo would have had to force them into making DK and Banjo eventually. They weren't all that much like HAL or Intelligent Systems cause Kirby and Fire Emblem are top priority to them. DK was never top priority, not by Rare, not by Retro, and now not even by Nintendo themselves. And unlike say, Metroid, the IP doesn't change hands often. Even more shameful, the most dedicated studio to DK was PAON and they're gone

I wonder what happened with PAON now that you mention it, they were very consistenly trying to maintain the DK Brand alive despite the fact DK lose Rare and the only person in the main Nintendo studios that appeared to be interested in doing something with DK besides just re-releasing DK Arcade was Koizumi.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wonder what happened with PAON now that you mention it, they were very consistenly trying to maintain the DK Brand alive despite the fact DK lose Rare and the only person in the main Nintendo studios that appeared to be interested in doing something with DK besides just re-releasing DK Arcade was Koizumi.

I don't know what happened with them, at all. I do miss them a lot, I loved the Climber games, especially DK Jungle Climber. It had everything the more "modern" DKC games lack (sarcastic cause the last release is way too damn long ago) as K.Rool and the Kremlings, enemy mooks, they created new Kremlings, made Cranky playable for the first time, revived Lanky, and really paid good attention to what Rare left behind for the series. If they where still around this drought would've been wayyyyyyyy more bearable. I actually think DK is worse off now than when Rare just left, cause at least PAON and even Nintendo seemed to try. Now we have had a game called DONKEY KONG COUNTRY RETURNS and the damn series hasn't even properly returned since.....

Just what the actual damn ****?

 

[Troykv]

I don't know what happened with them, at all. I do miss them a lot, I loved the Climber games, especially DK Jungle Climber. It had everything the more "modern" DKC games lack (sarcastic cause the last release is way too damn long ago) as K.Rool and the Kremlings, enemy mooks, they created new Kremlings, made Cranky playable for the first time, revived Lanky, and really paid good attention to what Rare left behind for the series. If they where still around this drought would've been wayyyyyyyy more bearable. I actually think DK is worse off now than when Rare just left, cause at least PAON and even Nintendo seemed to try. Now we have had a game called DONKEY KONG COUNTRY RETURNS and the damn series hasn't even properly returned since.....

Just what the actual damn ****?

I imagine it was suppose to be a return for "Donkey Kong Country" (the kind of game) itself, in fact, during the first years things look promising considering we got Tropical Freeze as the very next Retro Game... but then... nothing. Internal creative problems? The DK brand after Tropical Freeze only really appeared in some Mario Spin Offs, some reference to Arcade DK, and well, Smash Bros.

Donkey Kong now needs a "Donkey Kong Country The Second Coming"

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Kuantity and Kremlings are more than a worthy sacrifice for games of Returns and Tropical Freeze's quality. I'd love to see more spin-offs, but not as a substitute for major releases.