The New Tier List

[JaimeHR]

Wow, i just sugested this to be called "online tier list" because most of the guys discussing tiers and stuff are mainly bassed on thier experience playing "online SSB", not because is fake smash or whatever, sad face (someone even said fox is bad online, so whats the deal?).

on topic, MATTS!! Kirby should have his own tier.

 

[lordvaati]

Wow, i just sugested this to be called "online tier list" because most of the guys discussing tiers and stuff are mainly bassed on thier experience playing "online SSB", not because is fake smash or whatever, sad face (someone even said fox is bad online, so whats the deal?).

on topic, MATTS!! Kirby should have his own tier.

ladies and gentlemen, here is the evidence of people taking a suggestion and trying to turn it into a war.

 

[lordvaati]

double post, my bad.

 

[Nybb]

Well, it's easy to explain.





There we go

I don't see how this in any way replied to any of the questions I asked. In case that first post wasn't clear, I'll try rephrasing. To those declaring specifically this tier list to be "online-only" or not applicable to console smash...why do you think this way?

lag spikes are not that cool and even if p2p gets rid of a lot of it, teams matches are bound to have at least slight problems which sucks because teams is the only part I enjoy playing online.

When was the last time you played teams on console? People act like playing on the N64 is flawless, but playing teams on Saffron or even Hyrule can create considerable amounts of lag.

And lag spikes online hurt fox a LOT. In my opinion, Falcon is better than Fox online because Fox needs that little bit more precision and a tiny lag spike can ruin things

This goes back to the first thing I was saying. If this is true, and if this new tier list is only for online, why has Fox moved up while Falcon went down?


Now, to take a break from all this serious business...here is something we can all agree about.

 

[Deleted member]

thats exactly why i like teams online because there is no fps lag like in real life

but the lag spikes...

 

[ballin4life]

Falcon didn't move down... he was 5th on the old tier list

 

[Ripple]

shouldn't Isai be God tier?

aka

(0) Isai
(1) pikachu?

 

[hamburglar]

shouldn't Isai be God tier?

aka

(0) Isai
(1) pikachu?

No. No he shouldn't.

Has anyone else noticed Isai jokes are ridiculously overdone and almost never remotely humorous?

 

[NixxxoN]

Keyboard users!
Those fake disgusting repulsive degenerate inbred smashers!
This is where Nixxon comes in and falcon punches me!
(It's a joke)

Better DI and easier mobility VS precision stuff, you decide xP

thats exactly why i like teams online because there is no fps lag like in real life

but the lag spikes...

I would blame players for the lag spikes and not blame online smash.
I've played plenty of times team matches with no lag spikes, all you need is 4 players with fast PC and fast connection (no wireless) and obviously a good pc setup and clean of spyware and other crªp than may make it go slower eventually

 

[WOTG]

Stuff like lagspikes only effect how a player will perform at a given moment, it doesn't completely change how the game is played.
Though, if you played/experimented with console, then try online right after, lag does get pretty annoying.

 

[MattNF]

where did you get such ideas

dylan tnga

 

[Deleted member]

Better DI and easier mobility VS precision stuff, you decide xP



I would blame players for the lag spikes and not blame online smash.
I've played plenty of times team matches with no lag spikes, all you need is 4 players with fast PC and fast connection (no wireless) and obviously a good pc setup and clean of spyware and other crªp than may make it go slower eventually

maybe european servers don't suck **** like west coast servers do

RIP fragbox

 

[NixxxoN]

maybe european servers don't suck **** like west coast servers do

RIP fragbox

I forgot... Also you need a server with EmulinkerSF system or EMX1.0 like Near's server, to run with LAN connection smoothly

I've taken a look at west coast server, and IGamingLeague Public Server has ESF5.89 has it so it should be fine

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Igaming isn't actually in california

 

[Zen Yore]

shouldn't Isai be God tier?

aka

(0) Isai
(1) pikachu?

i love weird 1000+ post boarders who never played ssb64 and just come on these boards doing boring isai jokes

 

[Deleted member]

Igaming gives californians 70 ping

so our only option is outpost on excellent

and its terrible

 

[Blue Yoshi]

For all the "online is fake" people out there I encourage you to take the SheerMadness challenge. Play me online then come play me on console and see if our matches are any different at all because nobody has proven to me yet that playing on console radically changes skill levels, results, gameplay etc etc.

What if we use keyboard online... and never short-hop? (i.e. don't have a c-button set)?

The only reason I *almost* only use puff online is because I can't short-hop, and Puff is probably the only character that does not require short-hop to be used efficiently (try playing no short-hop fox...). And doing double jump cancels with only the 'up' key is really annoying...

The difference between online and console for me is online I use only puff competitively and don't short-hop, while offline I use everyone and have more freedom of movement.

If I were to take your challenge, I'd do much better on console than online... but that's because of other factors that are not online-delay related, so the purpose of your post would still stand (i.e. if I were to use a controller online, the results would be no different (or negligible difference) to console play).

 

[NixxxoN]

Igaming gives californians 70 ping

so our only option is outpost on excellent

and its terrible

IGaming doesnt look so bad then. 70 ping on LAN is 5 frames. 50-65 is 4 frames

Or you could do like I did on the main euro server, try to contact the owner of your nearest server and tell him to change the server software from 0.86 to ESF5.89 or higher. The outdated software is what makes it go slow

This actually should be done with all kaillera servers but oh well

 

[DMoogle]

What if we use keyboard online... and never short-hop? (i.e. don't have a c-button set)?

The only reason I *almost* only use puff online is because I can't short-hop, and Puff is probably the only character that does not require short-hop to be used efficiently (try playing no short-hop fox...). And doing double jump cancels with only the 'up' key is really annoying...

The difference between online and console for me is online I use only puff competitively and don't short-hop, while offline I use everyone and have more freedom of movement.

If I were to take your challenge, I'd do much better on console than online... but that's because of other factors that are not online-delay related, so the purpose of your post would still stand (i.e. if I were to use a controller online, the results would be no different (or negligible difference) to console play).

And exactly why don't you have the c-button set?

Or a controller?

 

[Mahie]

What if we use keyboard online... and never short-hop? (i.e. don't have a c-button set)?

The only reason I *almost* only use puff online is because I can't short-hop, and Puff is probably the only character that does not require short-hop to be used efficiently (try playing no short-hop fox...). And doing double jump cancels with only the 'up' key is really annoying...

The difference between online and console for me is online I use only puff competitively and don't short-hop, while offline I use everyone and have more freedom of movement.

If I were to take your challenge, I'd do much better on console than online... but that's because of other factors that are not online-delay related, so the purpose of your post would still stand (i.e. if I were to use a controller online, the results would be no different (or negligible difference) to console play).

Why don't you just set up a Cbutton key next to your directions then...?

As for keyboards... Advantages are overall speed. Be it DI or techniques such as multishining / basic shine cancelling. Nevertheless, since it's difficult to pull off tilts / walks / SHuairs, etc, it makes the keyboard definitly NOT as good as the pad.
Really, the only good point you can never reach with a pad would be the DI.

And I use a keyboard, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[SilentSlayers]

You guys know that Console has delay too? Sure, it's the minimum possible, but when you TAS a game, it has delay too. If you play with 2 frames of delay, that's virtually no lag. The only bad thing at this point is lag spikes. Like someone said, as long as you play with a reliable person, it's good smash. I completely agree, N64 smash is better in some ways, but what online has to offer is nothing to laugh about. Especially because it makes a community, though unfortunately, it's full of elitists who need to open their eyes, and maybe gain some knowledge. I do not really need to say more about why online has several advantages over console, nor vice versa.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I know I can set a C-button... but every setting has led to me failing (and when recovering... an instant loss of stock). I just can't use a c-button for some reason... and gave up trying to put it in.

As for a controller, I've been too lazy to get an adapter.

I'm not a random keyboard noob either... I got 5th in Near's tournament (without shorthop lol), so I think these settings are good enough for me for online games... and I'll use a controller in real console smash.

 

[Mahie]

I know I can set a C-button... but every setting has led to me failing (and when recovering... an instant loss of stock). I just can't use a c-button for some reason... and gave up trying to put it in.

As for a controller, I've been too lazy to get an adapter.

I'm not a random keyboard noob either... I got 5th in Near's tournament (without shorthop lol), so I think these settings are good enough for me for online games... and I'll use a controller in real console smash.

You should try "wasd" for the directions and "e" for a cbutton.

That's my own config and it works just nice.

 

[Darth Rancorous]

shouldn't Isai be God tier?

aka

(0) Isai
(1) pikachu?

no, no he shouldnt. isai is a person, not a character in ssb64...massivefacepalm

 

[Skrlx]

igaming sucks ***
i've already contacted the owner of outpost and offered emulinkerSF a long time ago but no response OH WELL.

 

[asianaussie]

Go P2P for singles.

Host your own server temporarily for doubles.

 

[Deleted member]

how do you host your own server?

I think caps lock is the best button for c-button if you use default setup

 

[asianaussie]

I use spacebar on C-button, far better for short hops (but I play piano, so that might just be me, as the spacebar is a lot like a piano key).

Download emulinker server, then run it. The server IP is your own IP. You can find that out easily enough (you can just type 'whatismyip' into google if you don't know how to use ipconfig etc).

 

[NixxxoN]

Running your own server is not that easy. You need a really good connection with high upload speed.

 

[asianaussie]

When I said that, I meant just for a 3/4 person match. I don't mean keeping a server up for everyone to come in. I just have the server ready if I ever have a number of people ready to play 4P.

 

[Skrlx]

how do you host your own server?

I think caps lock is the best button for c-button if you use default setup

step 1: obtain a high powered server (dedicated)

step 2: obtain top tier internet

step 3: put kaillera files on server

 

[Deleted member]

its worth a shot

or west coasters can pitch in for a server that doesnt suck

 

[NixxxoN]

When I said that, I meant just for a 3/4 person match. I don't mean keeping a server up for everyone to come in. I just have the server ready if I ever have a number of people ready to play 4P.

Even for only 4players, running a server on your own PC isnt a really good idea unless you have good PC, a good upload bandwidth (more than 1 mbps) and a good ping on everyone
But it's worth trying of course (use emulinker SF version)

 

[SSBPete]

i dont see how ness is such a low tier. as my friend quoted today "is there anything ness can't do?"
he can spike, tilt, djc, 2 missiles, absorb damage, reflect missiles, heck, he even has a yo-yo!

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

recover .

 

[Mahie]

recover .

nuff said.

 

[SSBPete]

also cause hes a penut

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

i dont see how ness is such a low tier. as my friend quoted today "is there anything ness can't do?"
he can spike, tilt, djc, 2 missiles, absorb damage, reflect missiles, heck, he even has a yo-yo!

1. His approach sucks, its basic and easy to read, Ness doesn't have any disjointed hitbox
2. Everyone besides i forgot who can spike/tilt
3. Absorb damage? I hit you with a bigger combo out of it
4. As boomfan says, recovery

Spoiler

I cannot read sarcasm on the internet

 

[smakis]

1. His approach sucks, its basic and easy to read, Ness doesn't have any disjointed hitbox
2. Everyone besides i forgot who can spike/tilt
3. Absorb damage? I hit you with a bigger combo out of it
4. As boomfan says, recovery

Spoiler

I cannot read sarcasm on the internet

isnt ness yo-yo and bat disjointed hitboxes?

 

[_Keno_]

Yes, his awful moves are disjointed.

Why is Jiggs so low? Awful approaches too? Rest combos are too good...