The New Tier List

[ShoeThief]

and I don't think that Samus is worse than Link.

This is probably not the place to debate (nor am I attempting to make an argument) but I think it's because Link has much more combo potential, allowing him to kill without having to rely on spacing and gimps (Samus can gimp who, Link, DK, and Falcon?). Plus, Link main weakness (recovery) is consoled by the fact that Samus's isn't too good either and most characters who aren't named Pikachu will usually die to edgeguards regardless.

 

[DMoogle]

Probably irrelevant to discussion here, but I think Link is the best character to learn and improve your approach (for all characters).

 

[payasofobia]

I am not an avid 64 player, so please, can anyone explain why Ness is so low?

I thought he was one of the 3 gods...

 

[Frogles]

he has bad range, a bad approach, and an absolutely terrible recovery. + he's a light character.

 

[Skrlx]

I am not an avid 64 player, so please, can anyone explain why Ness is so low?

I thought he was one of the 3 gods...

one of the reasons that i can think of right now is horrible recovery

 

[Gea]

I was just surprised he wound up worse than Jiggs.

 

[2001]

He is still powerful, has priority, and his grabs are insane and since most people are grab whores, that's kinda a good thing. He prob. should be a little higher but i dont really care since SSB is balanced in general, and my 64 broke. =(

 

[Deleted member]

when actual players play ness isn't that good

although most aren't that good against fighting good nesses though to lack of experience or willingness to play gay

 

[DMoogle]

he has bad range, a bad approach.

Did anyone ever explain their thoughts on this? I think he has quite good range and approach, he just lacks combo finishers and has the worst recovery out of everyone by far.

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me his approach sucks

 

[Loto]

when actual players play ness isn't that good

although most aren't that good against fighting good nesses though to lack of experience or willingness to play gay

Yeah I kinda agree when I play fox vs ness I never like to sit laser spam and wait for ness to approach. I just throw a few lasers and run in charging into utilt/DJC uair because I don't like to play gay in friendlies. But if you sat down and played gay vs ness there options get VERY limited. =/

 

[Blackshadow]

So many characters have much better spacing tools and extra range on Ness that it's easy to get in, and from there he's easy to get off the edge (from lightness). Once he's off the edge, it's considering -1 stock already. His grabs are fairly easy to predict coming, because if a Ness isn't in the air while approaching you it's clear he's going for a grab.

At a lower level of play however, players aren't as good at spacing, which means Ness gets his high priority moves and grabs in. It's that simple really.

 

[*JuriHan*]

After a little over two months of debating Match-Ups, the Smash 64 Community have come up with the new and improved official Tier List. All of that can be found in this topic.


Low Tier
(8)Jigglypuff
(9)Ness

I lol'd hard

 

[Deleted member]

i changed my mind

a backroom is needed cuz random dum brawl noobs butt in and taint the topic

 

[Llumys]

Oh, golly. I love Brawl. I'm clueless when it comes to 64 and Melee, but I'm posting here anyway to ruin everyone's fun. (:

I like the changes, though. I'm glad there's finally an update.

 

[Wenbobular]

I lol'd hard

Who the hell are you

 

[TANK64]

i changed my mind

a backroom is needed cuz random dum brawl noobs butt in and taint the topic

ooOOoo snap He went there

 

[Blue Yoshi]

guys... although their posts are not exactly the constructive type of post that is used in our decisions, these are new people, so treat them nicely. Bashing them will make them go back to brawl. Being nice to them might make them turn over to 64. Bashing every 'noob' that comes here will just make them turn away.\

edit (@s2j's post):

that was the entire argument for why we should have a backroom.

 

[Daedatheus]

Overall I'm extremely happy with this tier list. The only change I'd make is group Yoshi, DK, Jiggly, and Ness into one tier (and then change bottom tier to low). They are all relatively close.

I completely agree with this, Jiggs isn't that far below Yoshi and DK

 

[NixxxoN]

I wonder why Ness got 3rd on the original old tier list.... anybody knows? Must something related to lower level of play I suppose...

And no plz, no backroom, this community is ridiculously small to have a backroom and an elitist splitting and stuff

 

[kit]

I completely agree with this, Jiggs isn't that far below Yoshi and DK

personally i'd put jiggs even with dk... she may be a basketball to him but she sure as hell can fight back

but other than my puff bias i do generally like the list

also i've always been so sad that samus is always dropped right to the bottom i mean i can't really argue with it it just saddens me i love samus =/ but i suppose if i look at the list upside down i can claim her to be god tier!

also also how would the tier list fair if we made a different tier list for each character? like from each characters point of view... specific matchups would change the lists around for each char... then maybe collaborate? idk twas an idea i haven't thought thru yet

 

[SkylerSilver]

Woah a tier list change? Didnt expect that. Maining Mario, Fox, and Kirby makes me look like a tier ***** xD

 

[Gea]

I wonder why Ness got 3rd on the original old tier list.... anybody knows? Must something related to lower level of play I suppose...

The illusion of amazing. While I do think the current list underrates Ness slightly (but then again it is a list of fairly even characters, so who cares), too much stock was previously put into his DJC ability. Everyone was wowed by his ability to break shields.

At the end of the day though, he doesn't combo really any better than many other characters, and while he does have ZOMG priority (utilt is so lawlsy), as all Smash games have grown over the years, approach has become a bigger and bigger concern.

Lower levels of play encourage close fighting. High levels of play are all about zoning and waiting for a mistake to punish. Ness just can't safely approach most of the cast.

 

[Tambor]

I personally would move Jigglypuff and Ness to middle tier and the whole bottom tier to low tier. No character is really bottom tier in this game =/

 

[Gea]

Just rename the tiers S A B C.

 

[Surri-Sama]

The illusion of amazing. While I do think the current list underrates Ness slightly (but then again it is a list of fairly even characters, so who cares), too much stock was previously put into his DJC ability. Everyone was wowed by his ability to break shields.
.

too much stock was previously put into his DJC ability. Everyone was wowed by his ability to break shields.

Ness' shield break ability is not as far fetched as you seem to think.

The funny thing is that this chart shows online game influence so you have to remember, fox gets credit for being hard to play online, but many other chars do not!

Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and a few others who have good approaches/combos that have smaller frames for canceling (Marios SH.Dair-->Uair) are all heavily influenced by INPUT DELAY, which would be one of the things looked at if we established a backroom.

If people only played console with each other...on the same scale of variety that we have online, Ness and Yoshi players would be so much better and more respected. (fox already has this)

 

[Gea]

I think a closed backroom would be a waste of time, as your community is too small.

I realize that Ness' shieldpressure is nothing to scoff about, but in the (very distant) past it was heralded as brokenly good. Getting caught in your shield against anyone is bad news pretty much.

 

[Superstar]

Don't feel like quoting stuff, but Link is VERY reliant on spacing [but he gets a higher reward for doing it than Samus], Ness' recovery isn't even a major reason why he's low [it's approach/lack of easy to weave in finishers], and this tier list is based almost entirely off the matchup chart, don't try to change too much from this topic alone. =/

Not to mention it was known for a long time Samus was worse than Link,

 

[Deleted member]

Ness' shield break ability is not as far fetched as you seem to think.

The funny thing is that this chart shows online game influence so you have to remember, fox gets credit for being hard to play online, but many other chars do not!

Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and a few others who have good approaches/combos that have smaller frames for canceling (Marios SH.Dair-->Uair) are all heavily influenced by INPUT DELAY, which would be one of the things looked at if we established a backroom.

If people only played console with each other...on the same scale of variety that we have online, Ness and Yoshi players would be so much better and more respected. (fox already has this)

I play console more than online now and Ness and Yoshi are in the right place. They have definite strengths but also some flaws that are exploitable

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

Wow. This is cool. I did not expect to see Ness move down that far. Then again, I haven't played Smash64 in about 7 months. I am excited for when I go back home for Christmas because my N64 will finally be out of storage, along with Smash. It'll be so fun to start playing that again.

It's quite funny how so many people STILL think Ness is like broken because he's so good. I mean I think everyone I know who's played this game knows Pikachu is the best, but I have friends who think Ness is definitely next. It'll be fun to show them this.

 

[ballin4life]

1) This tier list isn't the end all truth.

2) If you're at a lower level of play ness might be better. This tier list is meant for people around level 5c of this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=50864

Also you can play smash64 online with emulators if you don't want to wait until Christmas. Check the stickies.

Edit: Also I support combining the middle and low tiers under middle, because the difference isn't that big and I don't like having a bottom tier. Renaming them SABC would be ok too.

 

[t3h Icy]

Firstly, nobody get mad at me if you don't like the ranks, since this based on the community's opinion and not mine, but if you disliked my leadership, criticize away.

Well, we have a fair number of player saying that it should look like this;

S: Pikachu, Fox
A: Kirby, Falcon, Mario
B: Yoshi, DK, Jigglypuff, Ness
C: Luigi, Link, Samus

entirely for display purposes. I could care less, but I don't really feel like triggering another war. All in favor of the Tier List display change?

 

[Deleted member]

why you copying brawl noobs

jk dont care

 

[killa k]

I was shocked to see Mario as High.

 

[Nintendude]

I think that suggestion is good.

 

[Bomber7]

yeah, Link still at the bottom. lol. :D

 

[Fireblaster]

Firstly, nobody get mad at me if you don't like the ranks, since this based on the community's opinion and not mine, but if you disliked my leadership, criticize away.

Well, we have a fair number of player saying that it should look like this;

S: Pikachu, Fox
A: Kirby, Falcon, Mario
B: Yoshi, DK, Jigglypuff, Ness
C: Luigi, Link, Samus

entirely for display purposes. I could care less, but I don't really feel like triggering another war. All in favor of the Tier List display change?

I support this setup more

 

[DMoogle]

I think that setup is as good as it's going to get.

 

[t3h Icy]

It's now edited as stated above.

 

[NixxxoN]

I prefer that aswell (top and bottom sounds like too unbalanced) but I'd say ABCD instead of SABC