Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[SkylerOcon]

He is stealing the use of the game title "The Legend of Zelda" , and his characters are (assumed) too similar to the characters in the LoZ series- both in name and in action. It isnt unintended use, and he isnt giving any credit to the group that owns the right to the series. It isnt a parody, it is an intended sequel. Fair Use is intended for the use of teachers, and to protect artists who are critiquing something that is protected by a copywrite.

That's the only thing he's doing wrong (hadn't noticed that he didn't before... give credit to nintendo, Phantom). He can just say that it's an open-source parody of the game. Not to mention that projects such as Zelda Classic have been around since '99 and still haven't got shut down by Nintendo.

Can't look at the thing about Zelda Wii gameplay right now, beacuse I'm in my Mom's office (she works at a school, and so IGN is blocked).

 

[SinkingHigher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbcmNoWBedE
Oh, and as you can see from this video, that cliche was already abused in OoT

Case in point.

Zelda stands silently at the edge.

Ganondorf is too easy. Walk through legs hit tail, occasional light arrow.

The ending was pretty sweet. I know it's cliche but I feel like the OoT ending could have been done better. I suppose if they went with my idea it would be like TP and we'd just have another reincarnation of OoT.

Oh well. I guess the chance has passed.

 

[Scott!]

Interesting article. They got it pretty much right, I'd say. Up the challenge, go full motion+, probably a realistic visual style. We've only had one graphically realistic (relatively speaking) game since MM. While WW style can return to consoles someday, not yet.

As for the cliched ending, it would be epic, but yeah, it would be a bit too cliche, I think. I think OoT was the best chance for something like that, or TP. Though, if they do it carefully and well in the future, I'd be open-minded.

 

[Spire]

In counting the "ending" as both the defeat of the final boss and the closing scenes, I see them as follows:

MM ending > OoT ending > WW ending > TP ending

What's interesting about Zelda Wii is that it'll be the fifth 3D console title. So far, we have the opposite-duos OoT/MM and TP/WW. This will be the fifth, and hence, something entirely new and different (so we hope).

 

[Scott!]

Even though they occur in parallel, I don't associate WW and TP. They really aren't related that much at all. Zelda games to come in pairs though. WW had PH. TP has...? And for that matter, Spirit Tracks has...? Or will they go together? If TP and ST aren't a pair, and I'd be doubtful that they are, then the new one will almost definitely relate to one, probably TP. I'm of course assuming they stick with the pattern they've pretty much kept since the beginning, except that MC is kind of on its own too, though it relates to the FS/FSA deal. Hm... Perhaps that's precedence enough for a third game in another pair? Oh the possibilities.

 

[Spire]

Even though they occur in parallel, I don't associate WW and TP. They really aren't related that much at all. Zelda games to come in pairs though. WW had PH. TP has...? And for that matter, Spirit Tracks has...? Or will they go together? If TP and ST aren't a pair, and I'd be doubtful that they are, then the new one will almost definitely relate to one, probably TP. I'm of course assuming they stick with the pattern they've pretty much kept since the beginning, except that MC is kind of on its own too, though it relates to the FS/FSA deal. Hm... Perhaps that's precedence enough for a third game in another pair? Oh the possibilities.

On the contrary, I find that because TP was made on an upgraded WW engine (just as MM was built on an upgraded OoT engine), and given the fact that the two run parallel to one another, debuting on the same console (just as OoT and MM did), that they are counterparts. While not in the same nature as the N64 duo are, WW/TP certainly have far too many connections to not be considered a pair.

[Random insertion] - I had a dream that within Spirit Tracks, you continue to fall into a dreamstate (go figure) where you're actually in TP's Hyrule, fighting Ganondorf on the rooftop battlements of Hyrule Castle, and because of that, I was going to get on SWF and tell you guys that ST must be placed in Child Link's timeline. Man, those were some good DS graphics. They looked as if TP were ported to the DS, and so they weren't nearly as great, but far better than PH/ST. It was pretty cool.

 

[Ochobobo]

except that MC is kind of on its own too, though it relates to the FS/FSA deal. Hm... Perhaps that's precedence enough for a third game in another pair? Oh the possibilities.

Also Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, and Oracle of Seasons all relate to each other. Time to add a fourth game to MC/FS/FSA! lol

Also, Spire III, nice dream but I had the same one. You forgot the part where Ganondorf transforms into Ganon and knocks over the statue of Darunia, which was a clear reference to the Adult Link timeline! I mentioned it on the internet, but then woke up shortly afterwards.

 

[Spire]

Also, Spire III, nice dream but I had the same one. You forgot the part where Ganondorf transforms into Ganon and knocks over the statue of Darunia, which was a clear reference to the Adult Link timeline! I mentioned it on the internet, but then woke up shortly afterwards.

If you're serious, that's hilarious. Goes to show that we may spend too much time talking about the Zelda timeline. But whatever, it's good talk

 

[The Halloween Captain]

On the contrary, I find that because TP was made on an upgraded WW engine (just as MM was built on an upgraded OoT engine), and given the fact that the two run parallel to one another, debuting on the same console (just as OoT and MM did), that they are counterparts. While not in the same nature as the N64 duo are, WW/TP certainly have far too many connections to not be considered a pair.

[Random insertion] - I had a dream that within Spirit Tracks, you continue to fall into a dreamstate (go figure) where you're actually in TP's Hyrule, fighting Ganondorf on the rooftop battlements of Hyrule Castle, and because of that, I was going to get on SWF and tell you guys that ST must be placed in Child Link's timeline. Man, those were some good DS graphics. They looked as if TP were ported to the DS, and so they weren't nearly as great, but far better than PH/ST. It was pretty cool.

Actually, if you saw the new map of Hyrule for Spirit Tracks, it looks 50-50 (IMO) that the game occurs in the TP timeline. Simply because there doesn't appear to be an ocean anywhere.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_In7cd9sYoR4/ScwqichmYaI/AAAAAAAADHM/qk8s3ZOnyi8/s1600-h/Train+1.png

Of course, you may also notice the close proximity of the Deku forest to Hyrule Castle, and notice that like just about always, the geography is completely wrong anyway. Especially since I'm just speculating.

I wonder what the story behind the conductor's uniform is.

EDIT: I never dream about timelining...

 

[Scott!]

Also Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, and Oracle of Seasons all relate to each other. Time to add a fourth game to MC/FS/FSA! lol

I was talking more about how Zelda games are released in pairs, sort of. The first two games were obviously linked, and AoL directly followed LoZ. ALttP was completely different, and LA was its sequel. OoT and MM were a pair, as were the oracle games. WW and PH and FS/FSA are the most recent pairs. Only MC and TP (and ST?) are unpaired so far, though MC references the Four Sword, linking it possibly with the FS/FSA games. Also, I don't consider Link's Crossbow Training to be anything but a spin-off. While we pair the oracles games with ALttP and LA, they were not presented as such at release. They're not really put anywhere, though they make the most sense there in the timeline.

Also, at Spire: While OoT and MM are a pair that share an engine, I don't think that's enough of an argument. ALttP and LA are a pair, but have very little in common except that one follows the other. And yes, WW and TP do have things that link them together. But the way I'm thinking of the pairs is on more of a superficial level, more on how they are presented to the public when they're released. In the pairs I'm thinking of, each second game is presented as a direct sequel, except for the oracle games (same time, and linked together) and the FS/FSA, which I can't discuss cause I've never played them and know little about them. So, while WW and TP are linked inextricably, it's not on the marketing level, but on a deeper hidden level. I'm trying to look at it from that point of view to try to see where they might take the next games, since they've been mostly predictable about this sort of thing in the past.

 

[Spire]

Also, at Spire: While OoT and MM are a pair that share an engine, I don't think that's enough of an argument. ALttP and LA are a pair, but have very little in common except that one follows the other. And yes, WW and TP do have things that link them together. But the way I'm thinking of the pairs is on more of a superficial level, more on how they are presented to the public when they're released. In the pairs I'm thinking of, each second game is presented as a direct sequel, except for the oracle games (same time, and linked together) and the FS/FSA, which I can't discuss cause I've never played them and know little about them. So, while WW and TP are linked inextricably, it's not on the marketing level, but on a deeper hidden level. I'm trying to look at it from that point of view to try to see where they might take the next games, since they've been mostly predictable about this sort of thing in the past.

I completely understand that and identified that as your argument in your first post. However, I'm speaking solely of the 3D console games. That narrows it down to four games: OoT, MM, WW, and TP, and it's obvious that they tried to counter both OoT and WW with MM and TP respectively so as to make the "big four". Plus, it's interesting to note that OoT and WW represent more of the classic Zelda feel, while MM and TP take what OoT and WW had, and mix in a darker, stranger element to it. This is mutable, because WW feels a bit stranger to the Zelda universe than TP, but there are just so many things within TP that are oh-so-similar to MM.

If we're lucky, Spirit Tracks will relate to TMC (somehow), and Zelda Wii will be either a prequel or sequel to Twilight Princess.

If I'm lucky, Zelda Wii will be something entirely new, with an entirely new Link and all. Or, it will be the Hero of Time's third adventure.

 

[SkylerOcon]

New Topic! 1-1 Swordplay in the new Zelda Wii.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/920/920705p1.html

What do yall think of this control scheme? nothing has been announced to lead us to believe that there will NOT be a change, so i think at this time it is best for us to assume that there will be significant changes..... id like to hear yalls opinions on this!

I know I'm late to the party here, but I'm just now able to comment on this. I think all the ideas presented in the article were nice (particularily the update in the story), but I'm a bit weary of complete 1:1 in Zelda. I'd like to get 1:1 against the Darknuts and in Boss fights and all that, but I don't want to have to worry about precision while I'm riding Epona.

Very good stuff for the most part, though.

@Zelda Wii: I think a second Terminian adventure would be cool. I know that there's probably some subtext in MM claiming that Link rid Terminia of all ails or something, but I still think it would be nice to re-visit Terminia.

 

[toon_marth]

I actually loved the water temple. I actually thought the Forest Temple was a bit harder. Why does everybody hate on the Water Temple?! Because they're waterphobic or something?!

It's considered to be the hardest dungeon in the game by most. But seriously, the Forest Temple?

 

[SkylerOcon]

I hate the forest temple. So, so much. Really, I love the Water Temple, and don't find it hard at all. All it is is backtracking. It's not that hard to do, in my opinion.

...but that dastardly Forest Temple on the other hand...

 

[Vorguen]

It's considered to be the hardest dungeon in the game by most. But seriously, the Forest Temple?

I didn't think the Water Temple was the hardest. In fact, I thought it was the funnest, and it was my favorite. This is without Dark Link. Now we throw Dark Link into the equation, and we have my all-time favorite dungeon of ANY Zelda game ever. Period.

The Water Temple was just very fun. Underwater fights were fun, and original, and different. Changing water levels wasn't even that annoying when you grasped the overall structure of the dungeon.

I thought for Ocarina of Time adult temples...

Shadow / Spirit > Forest / Water > Fire

in difficulty.


The Forest Temple was actually really fun as well. To be honest the one I liked the least was Shadow. A lot of it has to do with the boss you face, and Bongo Bongo was just average. Compared to Twinrova or Volvagia or Dark Link, he really was just "bleh".

Also Phantom Ganon was epic.

 

[Spire]

I hate the forest temple. So, so much. Really, I love the Water Temple, and don't find it hard at all. All it is is backtracking. It's not that hard to do, in my opinion.

...but that dastardly Forest Temple on the other hand...

The Forest Temple is in my opinion, the best part in the Zelda series.

Here's my story. I played OoT for the first time when I was 8, and like most others, had never played anything like it. I was about the proper age of the child I saw on the screen, and so I awoke as this boy in a forest with children who I believed I was kin with. My surrogate grandfather, The Great Deku Tree was falling ill, and I ventured inside of his hollow trunk to heal him by fighting creatures I was not ready for. But I knew that just outside of his walls lied the Kokiri, and safety awaited me. But upon defeating the fiend who plagued him, he died before not any Kokiri's eyes but mine. I am told of a great evil far worse than Queen Gohma, that which cast such dark magic on my guardian tree, that who took him away from me forever. And so I am granted an emerald with the power of my people instilled in it, so I set off away from my home that despite only knowing for just awhile, felt like I had known it forever.

Blah blah, Zelda blah...

I eventually end up at Death Mountain, and despite its terrifying title, I find it home to a rock-people, the Gorons. I learn that the Mountain is as important to them as the Deku Tree was to the Kokiri and to me. I also learn that they are beginning to starve as this great evil has sealed the entrance to the cavern in the mountain from which they feed. I do not wish for the same fate to fall on these people as it did The Great Deku Tree and my own, so I venture into this cavern to undo the evil which plagues them, King Dodongo. But even still, a greater threat awaits. Upon opening the cavern for harvesting, Darunia, the leader of the Gorons presents to me their most prized possession, the Goron Ruby, and so with the help of my fairy friend Navi, I set off to retrieve the last stone.

I now find myself at the domain of the Zora, a fish-like people. Never before had I imagined that I'd see such a people, but I am here, and I must find this stone. But where to begin? I speak with their King, and I discover that his daughter Ruto has gone missing, so I travel beyond his throne room into the Great Zora's Fountain, where their deity, Lord Jabu Jabu resides. However, Ruto is no where to be found. I catch a fish and use it as bait to enter Jabu Jabu's belly, where I indeed find Ruto. Upon defeating the parasite Barinade, I free the Zora Princess and am awarded the Zora's Sapphire.

With these three stones, I travel back to Hyrule Castle Town, where in the Temple of Time, I use them to open the Door of Time. Within this secret chamber, I draw the hallowed Master Sword, but find myself transported to an alien blue-chamber, the Temple of Light, where I am greeted by a Rauru. I am told of all the **** I just caused and discover that by drawing the sword, Ganondorf has now ***** Hyrule.

So, I awaken, talk with Sheik, and leave the Temple, only to find that the happy-go-lucky Castle Town is in ruins, and is populated by zombies. As an 8-year old, I am scared ****less, and run back into the Temple. But I know I must press forward, so I run through the town, dodging the ReDeads, and exit through the broken castle gate. I find myself in a dim Hyrule, with burning overcast skies. And all of this is my fault? I feel horrible.

So, I finally make my way to the Forest Meadow, where the once playful labyrinth, home to some not-so-dangerous Deku Scrubs, was now guarded by patrolling behemoths. As I turned a corner, a howl and spear lunged at me with brute force, and I nearly turned the game off in fear. Upon finally building up enough courage, I entered, but could not bring myself to press forward, as the Wallmasters, Poes, Stalfos, and ambient chants of ghosts and monkeys struck a fear into me that I had never felt before. I was not ready for this adult life. I was still a child -- I still wanted to be a child, but I was not. So I left the temple and returned to the Temple of Time to undo this curse. But, upon trying to place the Master Sword back into the pedestal, I could not. I then realized that I had to build up enough courage to press through this temple of horror, and so I returned, and through exorbitant amounts of fear, I defeated it, and within me as a person, awoke a new courage - the will to face that which I feared.

That is the true essence of Zelda; that is why it is the best video game series of all time.

 

[Skrah]

^That story is just amazing, and more or less what happened to me. I was about 7 when I played the game, and ****, did some parts scare me ****less.

 

[Scott!]

Oh Spire, we always seem to like similar things in Zelda games. The Forest Temple in OoT is my favorite dungeon of all time, any game, not just Zelda. Not there are many dungeons outside of Zelda, but it's still true. I would have been 11-ish, so a bit older. But OoT changed me, and set my standards for video games. No game has moved them since. So anyway, when I started, I loved the forest area. I'm always partial to forest area in general, real or virtual. So, when I met the Deku Tree and got to go inside, it was amazing. I was entranced by it. Nothing had ever been like this. The music (still top 5-7 for me in Zelda), the puzzles, the everything. I loved it aesthetically too, though I didn't think of it like that. I just thought it looked totally awesome. And then I left. I wasn't too affected by its death; I wasn't at a point where these things would affect me yet. I met Zelda, saved the Gorons and Zora, and loved the rest of the game.

But I returned to the forest again once. Well, once with a purpose, anyway. Saria wanted to see me. Now, Saria is my favorite character. I don't know why. Maybe it's cause her song is awesome. Maybe it's because of that scene where she gives Link the ocarina, and he runs. I love that scene so much. Her face at the end breaks my heart. Maybe it's the green hair? Maybe it's some other reason, or just because. But she's my favorite OoT character, bar none. When I came back to the forest, to her secret place, and she taught me that excellent song, all I wanted to do, more than anything, was to go into those ruins that enclosed the meadow. I knew I had to at some point in the game. I'd read the manual, so I knew that 1. I would become an adult, and 2. I'd get a hookshot. Thus, I knew how I'd get in. And then, I was an adult, and I got the hookshot. It was time.

I returned to the forest, and met Mido, who said Saria was there, confirming Sheik's hinting at that. I felt terrible that she'd gone 7 years without hearing from me at all, whether by ocarina or in person. So I was bent on rescuing her. I had to, to make up for my betrayal of her. I got to the temple, and walked in, finally.

It was everything. It was perfection. The music was amazing. It's my favorite track, with the possible exception of the Ballad of the Wind Fish. They're very close, and nothing else can touch them. But the Forest Temple theme... it's like the boundary between music and sound. And the dungeon itself. It was so creepy, with all the vines and darkness, spiders from nowhere, ghosts, and such. The best atmosphere I've experienced. I loved that the 4 ghosts were named for the four so-called "Little Women", though I've never read it. I just know their names, and did then too for some reason. I loved the puzzle with the giant blocks, and the bow and arrows, and shooting the arrow through the torch to melt the icy eye switch, and the twisting caverns, and the collapsing ceiling, and shooting the portraits, and the key in the trees in the lobby room, and everything else. The sewer tunnel connecting my two favorite rooms, the courtyards, the elevator, the moving wall downstairs, and everything. The boss wasn't my favorite, but I loved his room. I kind of felt bad that he was sent to the void between dimensions. That's rough, even for an evil phantom.

So, after condemning him to eternal suffering, finally, I was going to save her! Where was she? Not in the warp like Ruto had been in Jabu-Jabu. Maybe she was outside. I knew she'd be the sage, cause duh. But I was hoping she'd be around afterwards, and they could catch up. But we went to the Chamber of the Sages. And there she was! Finally! She gave me the medallion, and that was fine. But then she described how our friendship was doomed by fate, and that was just incredibly sad to me. I then returned to Hyrule a sadder, yet more determined person. I had her on my side, fighting for me. I finished the game, loving every step of it along the way. Nothing quite matched the Forest Temple, but things came close.

Since then, I've always ranked other Forest Temples lower than they probably deserve. MM just had an icky swamp. The WW one was meh to me, and the TP one was good, but no OoT Forest Temple. Last year, a friend who knew how I loved OoT was playing, and they got stuck in the Forest Temple. They asked me for help, but couldn't really describe where they were. So I drew the entire map from memory, with every crucial item marked (keys, map, compass, etc.), having not played for a few years. It was dead on, and we figured out what they'd missed. I couldn't do that with really any of the other adult dungeons. Only the Deku Tree and Dodongo's Cavern, really. But they're simpler. So yeah, I love it. Love it. Love it.

Also, much of this post described why I am completely unqualified to make any rational judgments on the quality of OoT as a game without bias. It, for me, is THE game. No other game can do what it did, since it was the first. It defined how I looked at games. I am a Zelda fanboy, and an OoT fanboy too. And while I don't like using that word, it's really the only way to describe it. I've played it so many times, though, that I can't play it anymore. I've pretty much memorized the game. I have routines for most everything. I did Master Quest once, and that was great too, but still. It's like reading the first Harry Potter book; I know all the words before I read them. Someday, I'll be able to read it again, once I forget. And someday I'll play OoT again. And it will be glorious.

 

[Ochobobo]

LOL! I love you guys. You're making me want to play OoT again. I've never finished the Master Quest, I should get back to that. I'm in the middle of playing Chrono Trigger for the first time now. The story's great, since I've always loved time travel stories (part of the reason why I loved OoT, MM, and OaA) but it's certainly no OoT. When I picked up the Masamune for the first time I imagined the Master Sword music playing in the background, lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89UwPhmwRCw

Here's my story. I played OoT for the first time when I was 8, and like most others, had never played anything like it. I was about the proper age of the child I saw on the screen, and so I awoke as this boy in a forest with children who I believed I was kin with. My surrogate grandfather, The Great Deku Tree was falling ill, and I ventured inside of his hollow trunk to heal him by fighting creatures I was not ready for. But I knew that just outside of his walls lied the Kokiri, and safety awaited me. But upon defeating the fiend who plagued him, he died before not any Kokiri's eyes but mine. I am told of a great evil far worse than Queen Gohma, that which cast such dark magic on my guardian tree, that who took him away from me forever. And so I am granted an emerald with the power of my people instilled in it, so I set off away from my home that despite only knowing for just awhile, felt like I had known it forever.

Nice descriptive language, lolol

Last year, a friend who knew how I loved OoT was playing, and they got stuck in the Forest Temple. They asked me for help, but couldn't really describe where they were. So I drew the entire map from memory, with every crucial item marked (keys, map, compass, etc.), having not played for a few years. It was dead on, and we figured out what they'd missed. I couldn't do that with really any of the other adult dungeons. Only the Deku Tree and Dodongo's Cavern, really. But they're simpler. So yeah, I love it. Love it. Love it.

lolol, that's awesome how much we can remember from the video games we grew up with, especially OoT.

 

[kr3wman]

The hardest part for me in the game was finding the fourth carpenter.

Took me like ****ing days the first time I played through it.

 

[c3gill]

The hardest part for me in the game was finding the fourth carpenter.

Took me like ****ing days the first time I played through it.

.......wow? that is definatly not the hardest part of the game. For me, the hardest part (my first time through) was probably remembering my scarecrow song, lol.

after that it was memorizing all the item locations.... ****in gold spidery things.

 

[Skrlx]

The hardest part for me in the game was finding the fourth carpenter.

Took me like ****ing days the first time I played through it.

LOL the carpenters are the best.
Though i think they are homosexual.
One of them even calls link cute (not sure if it's in a kiddish way like awwh he's so cute"
The way they run it's all O_O

but they are cool nonetheless cause they fix the bridge so that you can race with that guy

 

[Vorguen]

I wish I could get the skulltula rewards and complete the sidequest without helping the family.

Evil points in Zelda FTW. Just kidding.

Golden Skulltulas were 100% epic though. Best Zelda sidequest IMO. I'm trying to think of a better one and I can't. Collecting masks was up there, but still not #1.

 

[Skrlx]

I wish I could get the skulltula rewards and complete the sidequest without helping the family.

Evil points in Zelda FTW. Just kidding.

Golden Skulltulas were 100% epic though. Best Zelda sidequest IMO. I'm trying to think of a better one and I can't. Collecting masks was up there, but still not #1.

Don't forget of making that woman's Cucco happy lol

 

[Spire]

Oh Scott, that was the best post I've had the pleasure of reading in as long as I can remember.

My love for the Forest Temple is matched only by my love for the entirety of Star Wars, and even that is unfairly weighed, as the simple Temple (heh) is so incredibly romantic. Your description is perfect, and I could only agree more if we could break the 100% limit.

OoT Forest Temple > everything else in video game history.

 

[c3gill]

forest temple oot sucks.

Spirit Temple is where its at, ya noobs.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

forest temple oot sucks.

Spirit Temple is where its at, ya noobs.

The best temple I ever played would be the light temple with the mirror sheild in WW - I believe it was technically the earth temple, but it didn't look like one.

Light based puzzles, chu's that are resistent only to light, the big puzzle with the room with 2 dozen mirrors - best temple EVAR!!!!

 

[Scott!]

That was a good temple. My only problem with these mirror-statue-based puzzles is that they're always on tracks, or can only rotate, or something like that. That just makes it easy. The mirror statues should be able to move anywhere in the room, or part of the room. More open, more challenging. But yeah, there were some great ones in that dungeon, and it was probably the best of that game.

 

[c3gill]

That was a good temple. My only problem with these mirror-statue-based puzzles is that they're always on tracks, or can only rotate, or something like that. That just makes it easy. The mirror statues should be able to move anywhere in the room, or part of the room. More open, more challenging. But yeah, there were some great ones in that dungeon, and it was probably the best of that game.

Off of that, the cannonballs in the Snowpeak Ruins in TP had sooo much lost potential. I thought that was an amazing idea, but had limited use. That one could see which rooms the balls could be taken into gave away the entire strategy. Additionally, I would have enjoyed using them in the boss fight (although Blizzeta is a decent boss as she is).

Good idea, not living up to its potential though

 

[SuperRacoon]

I have to say that the thing the really sets the best dungeons apart from the rest of them is that the best ones are just so surreal that it feels like your wandering through a dream. (OoT Forest Temple, with it's twisted corridors and the poes that steal the flame, happens to be my favorite also, but the forest temple already has enough praise for one page)

Snow peak ruins is actually a really good dungeon too, best one in TP I think. One of the things I love it for is the way it's design suggest so much unsaid history about.
First of all, it was a mansion hidden away in the mountains. The mansion has such finely carved doors, and the room with the fireplace has elegant paintings and Victorian Furniture. The entryway (though mostly destroyed) had staircases, and it was draped in red carpet, there is even a room resembling a church that one might infer was used to hold religious services for the servants of the mansion.
Second, the mansion had been turned into a military outpost for some reason or other, there are a couple rooms stocked with spears battle axes and shields, and cannons scattered through out the mansion. At some point the mansion came under siege as evident by the fact that so much stuff in the mansion has had walls knocked down and holes blasted in the ceiling.
By the time you get there it is home to a couple yeti's.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I have to say that the thing the really sets the best dungeons apart from the rest of them is that the best ones are just so surreal that it feels like your wandering through a dream. (OoT Forest Temple, with it's twisted corridors and the poes that steal the flame, happens to be my favorite also, but the forest temple already has enough praise for one page)

Snow peak ruins is actually a really good dungeon too, best one in TP I think. One of the things I love it for is the way it's design suggest so much unsaid history about.
First of all, it was a mansion hidden away in the mountains. The mansion has such finely carved doors, and the room with the fireplace has elegant paintings and Victorian Furniture. The entryway (though mostly destroyed) had staircases, and it was draped in red carpet, there is even a room resembling a church that one might infer was used to hold religious services for the servants of the mansion.
Second, the mansion had been turned into a military outpost for some reason or other, there are a couple rooms stocked with spears battle axes and shields, and cannons scattered through out the mansion. At some point the mansion came under siege as evident by the fact that so much stuff in the mansion has had walls knocked down and holes blasted in the ceiling.
By the time you get there it is home to a couple yeti's.

Actually, the weirdest thing about that temple (for me) was it's location. I couldn't help but wonder why there is an extravigant ancient mansion where a battle was waged in such an incredibly remote and unaccessible region. A mansion that very oddly contains a lot of Ordonian food products. I highly doubt that Yeto travelled to Ordon, as he is actually considered a creature of myth to most of Hyrule, and rarely seems to go as far as the Zora domain. Ordon is the single farthest point in Hyrule from the Ice Temple, and it is almost impossible to go to and from the mansion; Link can't even get from the ice temple to any other point in Hyrule, as he has to warp away. There's no way an ordinary Hylian could use it.

 

[Phantom7]

No, but it's alright this time. Ask for permission from now on Phantom7.

And I do not think that we're allowed to make Zelda games that represent the series as it is due to the close resemblance. People can easily make fanart and the like, because there's no limitations to that form of artwork, and while video games may be seen as as form of art, Nintendo owns the right to make Zelda games.

Sorry about that, Spire. Don't worry, though, I won't need anything else - just to show that this game will fit with your timeline theory.

 

[Spire]

Snow peak ruins is actually a really good dungeon too, best one in TP I think. One of the things I love it for is the way it's design suggest so much unsaid history about.
First of all, it was a mansion hidden away in the mountains. The mansion has such finely carved doors, and the room with the fireplace has elegant paintings and Victorian Furniture. The entryway (though mostly destroyed) had staircases, and it was draped in red carpet, there is even a room resembling a church that one might infer was used to hold religious services for the servants of the mansion.
Second, the mansion had been turned into a military outpost for some reason or other, there are a couple rooms stocked with spears battle axes and shields, and cannons scattered through out the mansion. At some point the mansion came under siege as evident by the fact that so much stuff in the mansion has had walls knocked down and holes blasted in the ceiling.
By the time you get there it is home to a couple yeti's.

The Snowpeak Ruins is by far my favorite dungeon from TP as well, in part to both it being a SNOW dungeon in Hyrule in a new snow region (yes!) and of course, it's potential history.

Also what's interesting about the mansion is that it holds many paintings hung on the walls, similarly to the Forest Temple from OoT. Plus, the fact that both are remotely located, and happen to resemble mansions of a sort (Forest Temple more so being a gallery) brings up the mystery of their origin even more. They're both incredibly intriguing, and I'd love to know the history behind them. On the contrary, I think I'd like for them to stay as mysterious as they are, as it brings a very certain whimsicality to the two masterpiece dungeons.

Was Snowpeak ruins intact and occupied during Ocarina of Time? Had the Snowpeak province even been discovered and mapped out at this time? Perhaps it was, but later renovators must have inhabited the mansion after many places seen in TP, but not OoT had been established due to the paintings. The suits of armor seen in this mansion are similar to those found in Hyrule Castle, so the battlements could have been built by the Hyrule army, but the mansion itself may be considerably older. However, the fact that much of the architecture reflects the use of cannons and training grounds (given the open courtyards) suggests that it was perhaps built as a warm, homely garrison to those soldiers stationed in this region. But what is its purpose? Remember, Snowpeak Mansion is not in the north, but rather in the far west, simply in higher mountains, so, could Hyrule have gone to war with a western nation?

Maybe we'll see either the events of this war, or the aftermath (following TP) in Zelda Wii, as we travel from to this new country.

 

[c3gill]

could Hyrule have gone to war with a western nation?

Maybe we'll see either the events of this war, or the aftermath (following TP) in Zelda Wii, as we travel from to this new country.

are you ignoring the obvious here? why Zelda Wii????

why not Spirit Tracks? we have never seen trains in Hyrule, but they could be common in (northwestern country that sits right above the valley that contains Hyrule, and is a much more advanced civilization than Hyrule)

Its not like hand-helds cannot alter canon, or add to the timeline significantly. There very well COULD have been a war between these 2 countries, and Snowpeak Mansion was built as a fortification / garrison for the far border of Hyrule. We already know that Hyrule, at one point in time, had a significant amount of knights in service to the royal family (Link's Uncle is an example)- maybe some of them were sent to the Mansion? maybe those knights were Sheikah, and they were sent to kick names and take ***? I dunno, Im just rolling in ideas, but I do think ST is a better fit for anything with another country....... until we know some stuff about Zelda Wii.

 

[Phantom7]

The Forest Temple is in my opinion, the best part in the Zelda series.

Here's my story...

...I then realized that I had to build up enough courage to press through this temple of horror, and so I returned, and through exorbitant amounts of fear, I defeated it, and within me as a person, awoke a new courage - the will to face that which I feared.

That is the true essence of Zelda; that is why it is the best video game series of all time.

Wow, I can not at all argue with that story. That is simply amazing - how the feel of Ocarina of Time brings that strange sense of courage. And believe me, I had almost exactly the same experience. Although, I watched my older brother play through the game to begin with, so I was quite inspired by his ways of annihilating those creepy monsters in the Forest Temple.

This is why there should be an OoT remake. With updated graphics, sound effects, music, etc., it can recreate that feel and make a truly amazing game.

Now, Saria is my favorite character. I don't know why. Maybe it's cause her song is awesome. Maybe it's because of that scene where she gives Link the ocarina, and he runs. I love that scene so much. Her face at the end breaks my heart. Maybe it's the green hair? Maybe it's some other reason, or just because. But she's my favorite OoT character, bar none.

I believe it is the fact that she was the only Kokori that understood Link completely. Her deep friendship with Link really showed, especially when looking at Mido's selfishness. The reason I like her as a character is because of her kindness and her ability to accept Link, which actually aided Link on his journey, while Mido, on the other hand, complained that he was not summoned by the Great Deku Tree. That makes a statement to me - how such simple kindness can aid a significant hero on his journey while Mido's greed and selfishness could have slowed him down. And then Saria turns out to be a Sage - what an incredible idea for a character.

LOL! I love you guys. You're making me want to play OoT again. I've never finished the Master Quest, I should get back to that. I'm in the middle of playing Chrono Trigger for the first time now. The story's great, since I've always loved time travel stories (part of the reason why I loved OoT, MM, and OaA) but it's certainly no OoT. When I picked up the Masamune for the first time I imagined the Master Sword music playing in the background, lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89UwPhmwRCw



Nice descriptive language, lolol



I like how much that matches up with Link's character and his Triforce of Courage, lol



lolol, that's awesome how much we can remember from the video games we grew up with, especially OoT.

The Triforce of Courage - I like how that ties in so much with Link's adventure. The idea that the first three dungeons are actually nothing, then seeing Hyrule in ruins and the Forest Temple - it is incredible how ironic it is that Link is faced with such frightening obstacles, but obtains the Triforce of Courage in order to overcome them. "The other two Triforce parts go to those chosen by destiny" - a quote from Sheik. Link's destiny was facing his fears of Ganondorf and the Forest Temple. Look at how well that ties in. That's really a job well done for Mr. Miyamoto.

What I love so much about OoT is that every character's destiny and their position in Hyrule depends on their character, mostly during Link's childhood. Here's a list of characters describing how that works:

Link - Overcame the trials of the Deku Tree, Dodongo's Cavern, and Jabu-Jabu's Belly. Now about to be faced with his greatest fear, Ganondorf, he recieves the Triforce of Courage.

Zelda - The only person to realize that Ganondorf was plotting to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. With her brilliance and ability to make that prediction, she recieves the Triforce of Wisdom.

Ganondorf - Such ambition and strength to invade Hyrule Castle and the Sacred Realm, transforming Hyrule to a world of darkness, leaves him with the Triforce of Power.

Saria - Her kindness and acceptance toward Link, stronger than all other Kokori's, led her straight to the position of the Sage of the Forest.

Darunia - His leadership over the Gorons and bravery to seal the dragon Volvagia gives him the reward of being the Sage of Fire.

Ruto - Princess of the Zoras and promising to aid Link and find the Spritual Stone displays superiority to all other Zoras, giving her the position of the Sage of Water.

Nabooru - The only Gerudo not falling for Ganondorf's evil deeds, she becomes the Sage of Spirit.

Impa - Lone survivor of the Sheikahs and faithful to the Royal Family, she becomes the Sage of Shadow.

Rauru - There's a mystery. According to the Gossip Stone in the Sacred Forest Meadow, Kaepora Gaebora is the incarnation of Rauru (Theoretically, since it says he is the incarnation of an ancient Sage). It may have possibly been his knowledge of Hyrule and optimism toward Link that gave him the position of the Sage of Light.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

are you ignoring the obvious here? why Zelda Wii????

why not Spirit Tracks? we have never seen trains in Hyrule, but they could be common in (northwestern country that sits right above the valley that contains Hyrule, and is a much more advanced civilization than Hyrule)

Its not like hand-helds cannot alter canon, or add to the timeline significantly. There very well COULD have been a war between these 2 countries, and Snowpeak Mansion was built as a fortification / garrison for the far border of Hyrule. We already know that Hyrule, at one point in time, had a significant amount of knights in service to the royal family (Link's Uncle is an example)- maybe some of them were sent to the Mansion? maybe those knights were Sheikah, and they were sent to kick names and take ***? I dunno, Im just rolling in ideas, but I do think ST is a better fit for anything with another country....... until we know some stuff about Zelda Wii.

It might be trivial, but didn't anyone find it odd that the mansion had so much food from Ordon?

 

[SuperRacoon]

It might be trivial, but didn't anyone find it odd that the mansion had so much food from Ordon?

Maybe a little, but the beginning of TP did sort of set up Ordon as sort of the breadbasket of Hyrule, so it's not that strange.

 

[Scott!]

It is a bit weird that Snowpeak had all that Ordon food, yeah. If it weren't stuff I'd expect to go bad, I'd say it was just old provisions. But who knows.

And I agree with it being the best TP dungeon, by the way. It's a concept dungeon, like a concept album in music. And it worked really well.

Also, I had this question recently, and was waiting for us to not be in the middle of something completely unrelated to ask it. So, do you guys think that, if it hadn't died, the Deku Tree might have gotten the Triforce of Wisdom instead? Is the Triforce restricted to humans only? And is it wiser than Zelda? I mean, he knew Ganondorf's plan as well, and if he weren't cursed, I wonder if he would have been able to advise Link and Zelda not to play the song. I mean, Zelda must have been wiser than she let on as a kid. She was on to Ganon's plot, but was ultimately used by him to open the Door of Time. When Ganon touched the Triforce, the pieces must have gone straight for Link and Zelda. Ganon of course couldn't get the Wisdom piece since he already got the Power one, and the other two pieces were destined to go to someone else. But Zelda, for all her giftedness, was still just a kid. Either she was brilliant and just got out-maneuvered, or she was just coming into it. I don't really know, but I wondered, since the Deku Tree was portrayed as this ancient source of wisdom when you met him.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Maybe a little, but the beginning of TP did sort of set up Ordon as sort of the breadbasket of Hyrule, so it's not that strange.

Fair enough.

So how did Ordon cheese get into the Snow Peak Temple? I'm curious as to if there is a logical explanation, reguardless of whether or not it is the correct one.

(and Snowpoint is the best TP dungeon. But recognize that a lot of the Twilight Mirror Dungeons are "concept dungeons" - haunted piramid, snowpoint, and flying city.)

 

[Spire]

Also, I had this question recently, and was waiting for us to not be in the middle of something completely unrelated to ask it. So, do you guys think that, if it hadn't died, the Deku Tree might have gotten the Triforce of Wisdom instead? Is the Triforce restricted to humans only? And is it wiser than Zelda? I mean, he knew Ganondorf's plan as well, and if he weren't cursed, I wonder if he would have been able to advise Link and Zelda not to play the song. I mean, Zelda must have been wiser than she let on as a kid. She was on to Ganon's plot, but was ultimately used by him to open the Door of Time. When Ganon touched the Triforce, the pieces must have gone straight for Link and Zelda. Ganon of course couldn't get the Wisdom piece since he already got the Power one, and the other two pieces were destined to go to someone else. But Zelda, for all her giftedness, was still just a kid. Either she was brilliant and just got out-maneuvered, or she was just coming into it. I don't really know, but I wondered, since the Deku Tree was portrayed as this ancient source of wisdom when you met him.

Very, very good point Scott! The Deku Tree has been alive for who knows how long (must be a lot longer than 300 years, because that's the estimated [approximate] max amount of time between OoT and WW, and the Deku Tree in that - the one that sprouts in OoT - is large, but still relatively young, not ancient like the Great Deku Tree in OoT). Zelda is only a wee little thing of 10 years, so the Great Deku Tree bests her in the wisdom department in my opinion. However, it may not be a test of who is the wisest, than who has the potential to be the wisest (or by fate, will become said title). But who knows?

Also, can you imagine at how incredibly pissed Ganondorf must have been once the Triforce split up? He spent so much time trying to get it, and finally, when he found Link, his key to opening the doorway to the Sacred Realm, he gets there. Now, imagine walking through the sacred realm...

... and approaching the Triforce right there. That's epic. Ganondorf, at that time, was pretty much the first to ever do so. In that moment where your hand is reaching out to it, mere seconds from touching it, you must have the biggest ego in history. And then suddenly, IT'S GONE, and you see one triforce glowing on your hand, and mentally, you simply feel more confident in your power, but realize that the other two pieces have disappeared, and odds are, they went to the two little runts who helped you get here in the first place. I think I understand Ganondorf a bit more now.

Now think about this - no one in any Zelda game has had perfectly balanced amounts of Courage, Wisdom, and Power, so no one has ever been granted a wish by the Triforce. It just keeps getting split up. What do you guys think of a character being introduced to the series who is perfectly balanced in nature, while coexisting with the famed Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. What would this character be like?

Fair enough.

So how did Ordon cheese get into the Snow Peak Temple? I'm curious as to if there is a logical explanation, reguardless of whether or not it is the correct one.

(and Snowpoint is the best TP dungeon. But recognize that a lot of the Twilight Mirror Dungeons are "concept dungeons" - haunted piramid, snowpoint, and flying city.)

But the fact that one of the dungeons was a snowed out ruin of an old mansion/garrison is far more conceptual than a "haunted pyramid desert temple".