Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[c3gill]

I mean, Zelda must have been wiser than she let on as a kid. She was on to Ganon's plot, but was ultimately used by him to open the Door of Time. When Ganon touched the Triforce, the pieces must have gone straight for Link and Zelda. Ganon of course couldn't get the Wisdom piece since he already got the Power one, and the other two pieces were destined to go to someone else. But Zelda, for all her giftedness, was still just a kid. Either she was brilliant and just got out-maneuvered, or she was just coming into it. I don't really know, but I wondered, since the Deku Tree was portrayed as this ancient source of wisdom when you met him.

Ordon Cheese in the Mansion, cause people love cheese. duh, i figured that was obvious

I agree with the concept dungeons- arent they awesome? Some of the best dungeons in Zelda games, imo.

they are almost as good as Stone Tower Temple.

If Zelda was so gifted, she would have predicted Ganondorf following Link and the Ocarina, and would have kept it for herself. She wasnt THAT powerful. As for the Deku Tree.... well, I guess there is a reason Ganondorf put that curse on him... to kill him. Maybe Ganondorf thought the Deku tree might get the Triforce of Wisdom, and darunia would get the Triforce of Courage, if the spilt actually happened. ganondorf could have had crazy-good foresight, better than Zelda, even.

Also, can you imagine at how incredibly pissed Ganondorf must have been once the Triforce split up? Also, no one in any Zelda game has had perfectly balanced amounts of Courage, Wisdom, and Power, so no one has ever been granted a wish by the Triforce. It just keeps getting split up. What do you guys think of a character being introduced to the series who is perfectly balanced in nature, while coexisting with the famed Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. What would this character be like?

I seem to recall the end of Wind Waker, the King touches the Triforce, and his wish is granted. am I recalling incorrectly? King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, The King of Red Lions, is the one with perfect balance.

 

[Spire]

If Zelda was so gifted, she would have predicted Ganondorf following Link and the Ocarina, and would have kept it for herself. She wasnt THAT powerful. As for the Deku Tree.... well, I guess there is a reason Ganondorf put that curse on him... to kill him. Maybe Ganondorf thought the Deku tree might get the Triforce of Wisdom, and darunia would get the Triforce of Courage, if the spilt actually happened. ganondorf could have had crazy-good foresight, better than Zelda, even.

I seem to recall the end of Wind Waker, the King touches the Triforce, and his wish is granted. am I recalling incorrectly? King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, The King of Red Lions, is the one with perfect balance.

Touche! I easily forget the end of WW. I need to replay that game again (man it was good).

Also, good point on Ganondorf's insight

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Ordon Cheese in the Mansion, cause people love cheese. duh, i figured that was obvious

Fair enough. The Yeti like cheese. Now explain how the Yeti gets the cheese. Is there a logical way for cheese (and pumpkins) from Ordon to get to Snowpoint, considering what we know about Yeto, the Ordonians, and the Zora?

Spoiler

I can get the cheese from Ordon to castle town, and then from castle town to the Zora domain by assuming trade, but I can't quite figure how Yeto got the cheese from the Zora. He doesn't seem to participate in trade (outfishes the Zora and doesn't seem to use currency), and he knows what cheese and pumpkins are so he's obviously seen them on other occations than when the Zora domain was frozen and free food was lying around in the ice (although he himself may or may not have been able to access the Zora domain when it was frozen - I believe the entrance was frozen completely over at the time). Besides, do Zora even eat cheese?

 

[Spire]

Fair enough. The Yeti like cheese. Now explain how the Yeti gets the cheese. Is there a logical way for cheese (and pumpkins) from Ordon to get to Snowpoint, considering what we know about Yeto, the Ordonians, and the Zora?

Man, I can't believe you guys are arguing over this

I saw it as basically a cameo like "oh look, ordon cheese and pumpkins in this strange place with these strange people -- how peculiar!"

It's as stupid as that Zelda/Tetra argument back on 206-7.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Man, I can't believe you guys are arguing over this

I saw it as basically a cameo like "oh look, ordon cheese and pumpkins in this strange place with these strange people -- how peculiar!"

It's as stupid as that Zelda/Tetra argument back on 206-7.

Do you believe cameos occur without some sort of history behind them in a Zelda game? For example, is WW Tingle a cameo appearance, or is there a reason why there is a Tingle in MM and WW?

Edit: I just realized that MM is WW upside down. I knew that for a while, but I hadn't thought about it before.

 

[Spire]

Do you believe cameos occur without some sort of history behind them in a Zelda game? For example, is WW Tingle a cameo appearance, or is there a reason why there is a Tingle in MM and WW?

WW Tingle has nothing to do with MM Tingle. They exist not only in parallel timelines, but even furthermore in parallel worlds within those timelines a good century or so apart.

Now, Tingle in WW may have a lot to do with Purlo in TP, as those games run parallel to one another and it has been stated that Purlo is Tingle's realistic counterpart.

 

[c3gill]

Touche! I easily forget the end of WW. I need to replay that game again (man it was good).

Also, good point on Ganondorf's insight

Dont forget LttP- LINK! grabs the Triforce in the end, and his wish is for Hyrule as it was before Ganon / Agahnim altered it.

However, we never see what happens to the pieces of the triforce, as they would presumably split up, leaving Link with the Triforce of Courage.....

PRESUMABLY. We are completely unaware as to if Link has a perfect balance as well. Could he be chosen to carry the Triforce of Courage, even though he also has a perfect balance?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

WW Tingle has nothing to do with MM Tingle. They exist not only in parallel timelines, but even furthermore in parallel worlds within those timelines a good century or so apart.

Now, Tingle in WW may have a lot to do with Purlo in TP, as those games run parallel to one another and it has been stated that Purlo is Tingle's realistic counterpart.

Purlo even has Tingle's clock. Kinda cool.

But that wasn't my question.

Do you think there are cameos in Zelda games without story to back them up?

EDIT: Yeah, Link probably doesn't have perfect balance, by the mere nature of him carrying a Triforce. In fact, I heard one theory that the triforce weilders tend to be somewhat deficient in the other two aspects of the triforce.

 

[Spire]

Dont forget LttP- LINK! grabs the Triforce in the end, and his wish is for Hyrule as it was before Ganon / Agahnim altered it.

However, we never see what happens to the pieces of the triforce, as they would presumably split up, leaving Link with the Triforce of Courage.....

PRESUMABLY. We are completely unaware as to if Link has a perfect balance as well. Could he be chosen to carry the Triforce of Courage, even though he also has a perfect balance?

I never beat ALttP, so I wouldn't know. I really need to though.. (gonna hop on my VC copy again soon). I also need to play through Sunshine and Metroid Prime, as a friend just lent them to me. I think I'm going to go do that now. Adios!

EDIT: Is it possible that be defeating the one with the Triforce of Power, you actually prove yourself to be more powerful, and hence, in some form or another, "absorb" that Triforce? Same goes for Wisdom.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Do you think there are cameos in Zelda games without story to back them up?

I don't understand your question either, there are plenty of cameos in Zelda for no particular reason, and by that I mean Mario. There's a Mario and Luigi portrait in OoT, Fyer has a Bullet Bill on his vest, lots of Mario Portraits in LttP, and enemies from Mario games in LA.
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Cameos.php

Or were you looking for something else?

Is it possible that be defeating the one with the Triforce of Power, you actually prove yourself to be more powerful, and hence, in some form or another, "absorb" that Triforce? Same goes for Wisdom.

That's an interesting thought, after all, the Triforce does reassemble at the end of WW when Ganondorf pretty much cheap shots link and has held Zelda trapped in some sort of dark sleep.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I never beat ALttP, so I wouldn't know. I really need to though.. (gonna hop on my VC copy again soon). I also need to play through Sunshine and Metroid Prime, as a friend just lent them to me. I think I'm going to go do that now. Adios!

EDIT: Is it possible that be defeating the one with the Triforce of Power, you actually prove yourself to be more powerful, and hence, in some form or another, "absorb" that Triforce? Same goes for Wisdom.

Obviously not if you already wield the triforce of courage.

@ superracoon - I never finished OoT so I wouldn't know. In fact, you lost me when you said the forest temple was a gallery.

What I meant though is do you (or does Spire) believe Zelda has cameos from one game/part in the series to another without explaining it? For example, is there no explanation for why Tingle is in so many Zelda games? Does the Ordonian pumpkin and goat cheese in Snowpoint have no explanation? Is Twinrova in more than one Zelda without any particular reason within Zelda history?

A cameo without explanation is one that is completely unrelated to the timeline or history of Hyrule. For example, the Mario references in OoT obviously have nothing to do with historical events in Hyrule. I am asking if you/Spire think that the Zelda games have cameos from eachother that are completely unrelated to the timeline. It's significant for making a timeline, because it means names, such as the names of the OoT sages referencing the names of the towns in AoL, may or may not have any realivance to the creation of a timeline, as they could just as easily be a "cameo" with no in-game historical significance.

 

[Scott!]

Just a distinction I recall: Once someone causes the split of the Triforce, the splitter (or someone else) can reunify them and have the whole thing, and then get their wish granted. This doesn't mean they are balanced in their character though. If Ganon and Link could possess the whole Triforce in ALttP, then clearly, if you reassemble it manually, it stays that way even if you're imbalanced. Of course, this leaves Nohansen in limbo, since he may be balanced, but we just can't know.

 

[Spire]

I think most cameos are actually distorted by people like us to fit into the supposed timeline.

All in all, Zelda is full of cameos, but we screw them up.

 

[Skrah]

Have we already discussed the ending in TP involving Zant? Cause I'm been pondering over that. Also, Ganondorf lost his triforce before he died. Where did that piece go to then?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Have we already discussed the ending in TP involving Zant? Cause I'm been pondering over that. Also, Ganondorf lost his triforce before he died. Where did that piece go to then?

I wonder if that means in the TP timeline, a new triforce of power holder will emerge.

Ganondorf rarely dies; in WW he turned to stone and in OoT he was sealed. But in TP (I forget the exact details of the ending, so correct me if I'm wrong) Ganondorf died. There was a body, and I'm sure Zelda checked his pulse at some point, or buried him, or something (if she didn't, I'd be skeptical of that Triforce of Wisdom of hers). He died when he aparently lost his right to the triforce.

If we go by the one split timeline theory, the triforce exists in both timelines and was given to Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf because there has to be a triforce, in spite of the physical object being in the other timeline.

Hypothetically, the TP Ganondorf battle correlates to the WW Nohansen wish. So my crazy theory equates Zant to Nohansen. That would mean Ganondorf lost his triforce when Zant took it from him; Zant's (final?) wish.

The problem with TP's ending is it could be anything though; I don't expect a direct sequel to TP, but I do expect that the last scene will be explained through the prologue of a future Zelda, in a way that makes sense of it. Much like WW made sense of the end of OoT. Of course, that might be all the Kingdom Hearts discussion talking.

EDIT: Incidently, it would be awesome if you got to play the next game with the Triforce of power because of that. It should involve duel weilding swords as a super-strong demigod thingy, we'll call him Ganon, the ghost of Hyrule, and it'll have the best graphics of any Zelda to date. It'll be called "Goddess of War".

 

[Scott!]

@ THC: That idea for the next game gets me thinking. I doubt (hope?) Ganon's not the main villain, for variety's sake. But it would be interesting if Link, now possibly controlling the Triforce of Power due to his beating Ganon, had to control himself, and was on the verge of being evil. We saw possibly foreshadowing of this in the cut scenes with the Dark Links beckoning him to join them, and the falling Ilias, slain by him. The light spirits were warning him of the dangers that come with possessing too much power in the form of the Fused Shadow. But The Triforce could corrupt just as well, I bet. It'd be interesting.

Also, we didn't ever see them check the body in any way in TP from what I recall. No that they didn't, but we didn't see it. I hope they burned it. Seems safer. Zombie Ganon would be freaky.

 

[Spire]

@ THC: That idea for the next game gets me thinking. I doubt (hope?) Ganon's not the main villain, for variety's sake. But it would be interesting if Link, now possibly controlling the Triforce of Power due to his beating Ganon, had to control himself, and was on the verge of being evil. We saw possibly foreshadowing of this in the cut scenes with the Dark Links beckoning him to join them, and the falling Ilias, slain by him. The light spirits were warning him of the dangers that come with possessing too much power in the form of the Fused Shadow. But The Triforce could corrupt just as well, I bet. It'd be interesting.

Also, we didn't ever see them check the body in any way in TP from what I recall. No that they didn't, but we didn't see it. I hope they burned it. Seems safer. Zombie Ganon would be freaky.

New protagonist must face Link, the new antagonist, eh? According to that vision, if Link were to approach a fully restored Triforce, then he would become evil. With Ganondorf losing the Triforce of Power, I think Link may have realized that if he stayed in Hyrule, then he would become corrupt, so perhaps the scene in the credits that shows Link riding off into the woods may truly reveal that he is leaving Hyrule for the land governed not by the Triforce, Termina. I'm pretty convinced.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

New protagonist must face Link, the new antagonist, eh? According to that vision, if Link were to approach a fully restored Triforce, then he would become evil. With Ganondorf losing the Triforce of Power, I think Link may have realized that if he stayed in Hyrule, then he would become corrupt, so perhaps the scene in the credits that shows Link riding off into the woods may truly reveal that he is leaving Hyrule for the land governed not by the Triforce, Termina. I'm pretty convinced.

I am highly skeptical of this explanation, simply because I could make a dozen equally probable explanations that all turn out to be completely wrong. Also because I don't think there has ever been a point in Hyrule's history where it was physically possible for a single person to weild more than one piece of the triforce.

 

[Skrah]

That and Link being pure of heart. Basically he cannot become evil since the wielder of the Master Sword must be totally benign. So if Link actually got the Triforce of Power at the end, I'm not sure that it could corrupt him.

 

[Phantom7]

^ The fact of the matter, though, is that Courage is the strength that Link most believes in, so there is no possibility whatsoever of Link getting the Triforce of Power - especially if there's a Ganondorf waiting around somewhere. So the argument is pointless anyway. But, if Link WERE to somehow obtain the Triforce of Power, no, it would not corrupt him, because he has a righteous heart. Just because the villain, Ganondorf, is known for possessing the Triforce of Power doesn't make that fraction of the triforce evil.

 

[c3gill]

^ The fact of the matter, though, is that Courage is the strength that Link most believes in, so there is no possibility whatsoever of Link getting the Triforce of Power .......

What? how do we know that Link would recieve the Triforce of Courage? Just because he was chosen as the keeper of the Courage piece doesnt mean that he doesnt have a balance.

There is no "the fact of the matter"- unless Link is the first person to touch the triforce, we are unaware as to if he has the perfect balance or not.

Remember, first the Triforce will grant any 1 wish- then, if the person to whom the wish is granted doesnt have the balance of Wisdom, Power, and Courage, (s)he will be left with the 1 piece of the triforce with which they view as the more important, and the other 2 pieces will go find owners who have the quality of the respective piece of triforce.

Until Link is the first person to touch the triforce (wouldnt happen), we will never know which he values most.

thought- Link grabs the triforce, and wishes to drive a train. lolz

 

[Scott!]

thought- Link grabs the triforce, and wishes to drive a train. lolz

This. There's never been a better idea for a Zelda game than this ever. Ever.

Anyway, enough of that. So, I'm going off of this in what I say:

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Triforce

So, in the AoL section, it explicitly ways that, at some point prior to AoL, and LoZ by association, a king of Hyrule assembles the entire Triforce. The Courage piece is hidden in the so-called Great Palace. The others are hidden elsewhere, and Ganon and Zelda end up with their respective pieces. Zelda hides hers, Ganon uses his to wage war on Hyrule (again). So we know for certain that the Triforce has at some point been possessed by one man, a king of Hyrule. It is possible for someone to have it all.

Whether that means he was balanced is another story. Ganon can theoretically have the entire thing if he takes the pieces from Zelda and Link, even without being balanced. This king could have done the same thing.

Could it be Nohansen though? I mean, we've already got him coming before AoL etc. in the timeline. Could he have hidden the pieces as part of his wish? I don't know. But I think he has to be balanced in all parts. He wasn't one of the bearers already when all three pieces came together, so when he touched it, I think it should have split if he weren't balanced.

@ Skrah: Your idea relies on the Master Sword being equal in power to the Triforce. But if the Triforce is stronger, it could corrupt someone even the Master Sword judged pure, possibly.

Also, it's true that Power =/= evil. But it's probably the closest of the three parts to it.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Could it be Nohansen though?

That old Ganon is no match for the King!

Spoiler

Ok, I just had to, seriously, look at that pic

 

[Spire]

I am highly skeptical of this explanation, simply because I could make a dozen equally probable explanations that all turn out to be completely wrong. Also because I don't think there has ever been a point in Hyrule's history where it was physically possible for a single person to weild more than one piece of the triforce.

I was not suggesting that Link obtain the Triforce of Power. You see, after Ganondorf was defeated, he lost the Triforce of Power, so it is assumed that it returned to the protection of the Sacred Realm. If Link were to hypothetically travel to the Sacred Realm with Zelda to rejoin the pieces of the Triforce, then that might be when he'd turn. Perhaps he is not capable of being granted a wish because he is not pure of heart. While he was courageous enough to do all that he did in the events of TP, he may still not be pure and balanced. Think of the Triforce [in this case] as the One Ring from LotR. While there are those who wish to protect it [from others], there are those who while otherwise are kind people, would fall greedy and corrupt to its power. Link may be one of them.

Anyways, I'm tired of assuming such matters. Merely trying to make sense of that vision that Lanayru bestowed upon Link after completing the Lakebed Temple.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

No Majora's Mask this week.

 

[SkylerOcon]

At least I still have a working copy of the N64 version.

 

[Scott!]

At least my Collector's Edition GC version has never screwed me over. Of course, I've never finished a playthrough on it, but I've gotten to the canyon last time I messed around there.

 

[Phantom7]

I wish I had the GC version, but I don't. So sadly I'm forced to play through it on the crappy N64 controller (and in low res). Which by the way, I will get to after I'm done with WW. What really changed my mind about the timelines was playing through WW and finding out how it connects with OoT and what actually happens to Hyrule after it is left without Link and Ganondorf, canceling the placement of TP between the two games.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I wish I had the GC version, but I don't. So sadly I'm forced to play through it on the crappy N64 controller (and in low res). Which by the way, I will get to after I'm done with WW. What really changed my mind about the timelines was playing through WW and finding out how it connects with OoT and what actually happens to Hyrule after it is left without Link and Ganondorf, canceling the placement of TP between the two games.

You do realize that upping the resolution only makes new games look good right?

When an old game has clearer resolution, it often just emphasizes how bad the graphics are by giving you a crystal clear image of the flaws.

It's like watching Rudolf the Red Nose Reigndeer remastered in high-definition. You see every flaw clearly, and the characters become mere puppets rather than personalities.

 

[Ochobobo]

You do realize that upping the resolution only makes new games look good right?

When an old game has clearer resolution, it often just emphasizes how bad the graphics are by giving you a crystal clear image of the flaws.

It's like watching Rudolf the Red Nose Reigndeer remastered in high-definition. You see every flaw clearly, and the characters become mere puppets rather than personalities.

Which is why Super Mario 64 DS looked great in the DS's 256x192 resolution.

Maybe they should release Majora's Mask for the DS too, lol. (assuming they get the controls right!)

 

[c3gill]

Which is why Super Mario 64 DS looked great in the DS's 256x192 resolution.

Maybe they should release Majora's Mask for the DS too, lol. (assuming they get the controls right!)

Amazing. I will sell my life to you if you can convince Nintendo to do it. A PORTABLE MM? its already my fav in the series..... this is just asking me to fail the rest of my classes- Teachers lecturing about Orgo Chem **** while im kicking Twinmold ***. Yes, please. /fails college - soooo worth it.

 

[Alzi]

At least I still have a working copy of the N64 version.

At least PAL regions already have it on VC.

Too bad i don't have it lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

At least PAL regions already have it on VC.

Too bad i don't have it lol.

OMG is that you alzi? xD

 

[Phantom7]

It may show every flaw in high res, but it is sharper.

Personally, c3gill, OoT was better than MM. Sorry. I could spend a long time arguing about it, too, but I'd suggest we not get into that.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It may show every flaw in high res, but it is sharper.

Personally, c3gill, OoT was better than MM. Sorry. I could spend a long time arguing about it, too, but I'd suggest we not get into that.

Which is why Super Mario 64 DS looked great in the DS's 256x192 resolution.

Maybe they should release Majora's Mask for the DS too, lol. (assuming they get the controls right!)

Sharper doesn't mean better.

 

[Chill]

I wish I had the GC version, but I don't. So sadly I'm forced to play through it on the crappy N64 controller (and in low res). Which by the way, I will get to after I'm done with WW. What really changed my mind about the timelines was playing through WW and finding out how it connects with OoT and what actually happens to Hyrule after it is left without Link and Ganondorf, canceling the placement of TP between the two games.

But how would that cancel the placment of TP if the creators already stated that TP does take place between the two?

I agree that the events and images present in the WW make it clear that it takes place after OoT, but it wouldn't be right to say "TP doesn't fit" because it's not a convenient match. What it does do is lend credibility to the idea that save for a few games there is no real timelime but no one likes that idea.

I would just say that TPs placement doesn't mean that the flooding of Hyrule couldn't have taken place as it were, just that TP is a missing piece of the timelime. We have no idea what happened after TP. The flooding of Hyrule could simply be saved for another game or it might be a piece of history that they devs don't feel as though they could ever get away with telling. Some things may be better left to the imagination.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I agree that the events and images present in the WW make it clear that it takes place after OoT, but it wouldn't be right to say "TP doesn't fit" because it's not a convenient match. What it does do is lend credibility to the idea that save for a few games there is no real timelime but no one likes that idea.

I like that idea.

But without the timeline, we would be stuck discussing how all the similarities in the game are there because it's a legend retold. It doesn't make the interaction of objects common to multiple games very interesting.

EDIT: It's kind of weird how much popularity OoT has. Yes, it was the first 3D title, but the game was ugly and the controls clunky. I don't mean relative to today, I mean just in general the game was an eyesore with many unintuitive/unfair puzzles and while the controls were very good compared to everything else 3D at the time, they still had you jumping off cliffs into lava chasms by accident. I never actually finished a 3D game in the N64 era because none of them were refined enough to be fun to see to the end (except Super Mario 64, but even that I ended up leaving for a few years, only beating it about two years after I purchased it). Which is why it surprises me that Ocarina has such a fan base. Sure it was great compared to everything else, but that's because everything was pretty terrible (in my experience).

I may have enjoyed many of the N64 games, but I could rarely finish them, and at no time did they look good (I don't believe 3D was ever what I expected until gamecube came out). It makes me wonder now how those near unfinishable unintuitive games retained their fanbase when much superior versions with fairer puzzles have come out since them and pretty much trounced the best of the N64 era.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I like that idea.

But without the timeline, we would be stuck discussing how all the similarities in the game are there because it's a legend retold. It doesn't make the interaction of objects common to multiple games very interesting.

EDIT: It's kind of weird how much popularity OoT has. Yes, it was the first 3D title, but the game was ugly and the controls clunky. I don't mean relative to today, I mean just in general the game was an eyesore with many unintuitive/unfair puzzles and while the controls were very good compared to everything else 3D at the time, they still had you jumping off cliffs into lava chasms by accident. I never actually finished a 3D game in the N64 era because none of them were refined enough to be fun to see to the end (except Super Mario 64, but even that I ended up leaving for a few years, only beating it about two years after I purchased it). Which is why it surprises me that Ocarina has such a fan base. Sure it was great compared to everything else, but that's because everything was pretty terrible (in my experience).

I may have enjoyed many of the N64 games, but I could rarely finish them, and at no time did they look good (I don't believe 3D was ever what I expected until gamecube came out). It makes me wonder now how those near unfinishable unintuitive games retained their fanbase when much superior versions with fairer puzzles have come out since them and pretty much trounced the best of the N64 era.

1. You cant say a game sucks if you haven't beaten it.

2. It is still considered the best Zelda game today by not only me but a variety of people

and while the controls were very good compared to everything else 3D at the time, they still had you jumping off cliffs into lava chasms by accident.

3. That was because you don't have a steady hand. I recall time and time again my friend asking me to do the Forsaken Fortress on TLoZ:TWW because he couldn't stop falling off

it makes me wonder now how those near unfinishable unintuitive games retained their fanbase when much superior versions with fairer puzzles have come out since them and pretty much trounced the best of the N64 era.

4.unfinishable? I beaten the game with only three hearts! How is that unfinishable?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

1. You cant say a game sucks if you haven't beaten it.

2. It is still considered the best Zelda game today by not only me but a variety of people



3. That was because you don't have a steady hand. I recall time and time again my friend asking me to do the Forsaken Fortress on TLoZ:TWW because he couldn't stop falling off



4.unfinishable? I beaten the game with only three hearts! How is that unfinishable?

1. Of course I can criticize a game I haven't finished. If I thought it was good I would have finished it. I can criticize bad food for being unfinishable. I can criticize a bad television series without forcing myself through an entire series of aweful dialogue and plot holes. Why can't I do the same for video games, where unlike the other two, it may not even be possible for me to finish?

2. Yes, and I fail to see how it's better than TP. It was my first Zelda.

3. So what? You don't need a steady hand to play TP. Why should I cut it any slack if I didn't have fun, and there are games that simply do the controls significantly better?

4. Did you have a strategy guide? A lot of my friends told me that it practically requires one, and I didn't have a guide or internet service at the time.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

1. Of course I can criticize a game I haven't finished. If I thought it was good I would have finished it. I can criticize bad food for being unfinishable. I can criticize a bad television series without forcing myself through an entire series of aweful dialogue and plot holes. Why can't I do the same for video games, where unlike the other two, it may not even be possible for me to finish?

2. Yes, and I fail to see how it's better than TP. It was my first Zelda.

3. So what? You don't need a steady hand to play TP. Why should I cut it any slack if I didn't have fun, and there are games that simply do the controls significantly better?

4. Did you have a strategy guide? A lot of my friends told me that it practically requires one, and I didn't have a guide or internet service at the time.

I just think that if you don't give things a chance how can you bag on it? The story of OoT was one of the best and it was the game that got me into gaming. How can you hate the part (warning spoiler)

Spoiler

when you finally figure out Sheik was Zelda

No I have never used a strategy guide in my gaming career.

I get the feeling you got stuck on a temple water perhaps? If that's the reason just ask someone to help you because that is no reason to hate an entire game.