Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[The Halloween Captain]

enacts a coo? its Coup, lol

and evil cannot touch the master sword- Zant cant touch it. i really like your ideas, you went much more in-depth than I did. good stuff, i like it.


edit- i should have read more closely- the Ritos are evolved Zoras- it doesnt really make sense for them to not be in WW, but be in your game.

1. Weild isn't the same thing as move. He could technically take Ganon's corpse and dump it into Death mountain, sword and all. Even if he couldn't do that, once the sword is shieved, anyone can touch the shief.

2. I could care less about obeying any convention of the timeline, as you can tell. It doesn't make sense according to any timeline theory. But I don't really care, and in true Zelda fasion, I would decide it's exact timeline location - after TP or after WW - some time very late into game developement. Either way, we don't know if the entire Zora race evolved into Rito, or if it was a divergent evolution. Are there still Zora in the WW timeline? I haven't played Phantom Hourglass, so I'm not sure.

Thanks though!

 

[Vorguen]

Zelda doesn't NEED to follow a timeline it is epic just the way it is. They can always make games designed to link all other games together.

 

[Spire]

1. Weild isn't the same thing as move. He could technically take Ganon's corpse and dump it into Death mountain, sword and all. Even if he couldn't do that, once the sword is shieved, anyone can touch the shief.

2. I could care less about obeying any convention of the timeline, as you can tell. It doesn't make sense according to any timeline theory. But I don't really care, and in true Zelda fasion, I would decide it's exact timeline location - after TP or after WW - some time very late into game developement. Either way, we don't know if the entire Zora race evolved into Rito, or if it was a divergent evolution. Are there still Zora in the WW timeline? I haven't played Phantom Hourglass, so I'm not sure.

I think you're looking for "sheath", not "shief" as that is not a word.

Your story was pretty accurate. In relativity to the timeline, I feel that this Legend of Zelda could easily take place after Spirit Tracks (not just for obvious reasons involving trains, and that is, if ST takes place after AoL -- I never noticed that American Online shares the same acronym). Furthermore, the Zant featured in this game is the one in the WW timeline, rather than the one confronted in the TP timeline. Inversely, perhaps he actually took the throne legitimately, rather than Midna, and furthermore, has incredible powers. I think he would definitely need to be designed differently than seen in TP so as to not confuse the two, but this could all work out. I'm keen on the idea of a Ganon reincarnate, as I expressed the same idea in my "Project: Future Zelda", which coincidentally shares similar traits with your story.

Now, for c3gill. Being a Termina fan, this was a great read. In terms of D&D alignment, if Fierce Deity is evil too, then he would be Lawful Evil, while Majora would be Chaotic Evil, and while both are evil, they are opposites. Anyways, I take it your "indians" are merely native people who resemble the tribal, early-indigenous look you were imagining? I think this game should take place not just in Termina, but in lands to the East of it, past the Ikana Canyon. These people should be native to the Ikana Canyon and would later on build the Stone Tower Temple.

I believe that while some of the Sheikah were those that the Fused Shadow was made from, those that abused Majora's Mask's power for hexes should be members of this native tribe, and hence, this tribe is the Terminian equivalent of the Sheikah.

 

[c3gill]

Now, for c3gill. Being a Termina fan, this was a great read. In terms of D&D alignment, if Fierce Deity is evil too, then he would be Lawful Evil, while Majora would be Chaotic Evil, and while both are evil, they are opposites. Anyways, I take it your "indians" are merely native people who resemble the tribal, early-indigenous look you were imagining? I think this game should take place not just in Termina, but in lands to the East of it, past the Ikana Canyon. These people should be native to the Ikana Canyon and would later on build the Stone Tower Temple.

I believe that while some of the Sheikah were those that the Fused Shadow was made from, those that abused Majora's Mask's power for hexes should be members of this native tribe, and hence, this tribe is the Terminian equivalent of the Sheikah.

I couldnt really put into words what I imagine these "indians" to be- your descripition is closer. Stone Tower Temple seems like a noteworthy location- but I feel the game should take place far east of Stone Temple Tower would be- as to incorporate all 4 terrains from MM.

I think that the coastline is always an important part of Zelda games, so we are continuing the map of Termina (takes place east of Stone Tower Temple- and the land on the other side of STT is a mirror of the land on the east of it- i do like that!).

The people could be gathering stone from the western Stone Temple (ikana castle could be a small harvesting town), harvesting food from the southern swamps (continued) , fishing on the far eastern coast, and hunting in the northern snowy mountians.


The idea is before people have the luxury of doing anything other than building up a civilization and living as a group, so I dont feel the direct reference to the Sheikah- however, that is an easily fixed solution. A group of slightly more advanced people living to the north (straight east of where Gorons temple would end up) could be the ancestors of the Sheikah- noted for red eyes and subtle ways. They would be much closer to nature than the "indians"- and be a hidden group devoted to learning the ways of magic. They would at first shun Majora for his "dark" magic- but eventually be his first followers. He wouldnt have to enslave them, as their thirst for knowledge would lead them to Majora.

After Fierce Deity ended the conflict with Majora, the Sheikah would take to living among the commoners- eventually taking a place of royalty among them (The connection to Zelda as Sheik- in termina). The commoners would never question the devotion of those Sheikah, but they would secretly continue their dark ways.

Again, my thoughts and connection to the game.

 

[Spire]

You have your co-ordinal directions wrong What's EAST of the STT is unknown land, what's WEST of STT is the rest of the known Termina.

That Sheikah tidbit was just my own little "thinking process" rather than a suggestion for what to include in your story. My belief is that since the Sheikah were not seen in OoT, and neither were their counterparts in MM, then their counterparts must too, have disappeared somehow. I believe that because Ikana Canyon seems to be the Terminian counterpart to Kakariko (given that they both have a well and a graveyard) that the Ikana are the Terminian counterparts to the Sheikah - and that is corroborated because both of these peoples have disappeared from their respective worlds. So, your native people, I believe, are the Ikana (it's a fitting name for your description).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't see the Fierce Diety as being "Lawful"

...If anything he'd be better as Chaotic Neutral than Lawful evil.

I see him as doing whatever he wants regardless if it follows the rules

 

[c3gill]

Pincarnate- Why not? Majora and Fierce deity are obvious opposites.... and Majora is the one bringing the chaos in MM.... it makes sense.


Spire- Yea, they would eventually become the Ikana- but the Ikana had castles and fought in a massive war..... OH ****. yea i like it a lot. That fits perfectly. I wish I could recall the Igos quote about the war, but im drawing a blank.

And the Shiekah belong- i think they fit the story well. It is supposed to be a bit darker than the average Zelda, and they go well into the games plot. Its a good idea to have them as a main race, and show how they dispersed among the common people.

edit- and i think my directions are right.... think about stuff as it would be from directly east of STT, and it should be right.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Pincarnate...?

Well, the look in the Fierce Diety's eyes just scream to me that he's not someone that fallows the rules. If anything, people do what HE says, and not the other way around.

 

[c3gill]

Pincarnate...?

Well, the look in the Fierce Diety's eyes just scream to me that he's not someone that fallows the rules. If anything, people do what HE says, and not the other way around.

The idea is that he is the protector of these people, the one who fights the evil that tries to corrupt them.


Think about it like this- he wants to be the only one that they look to for Guidance- Majora is impeding and taking away his flock. He is pissed, and is going to kick some ***.

 

[Skrah]

I would like a game that developed the Fierce Deity. Even though it is doubtful if the comic is canonical or not, it was an awesome read. I really recommend it.

I don't really have worthy ideas lol, but Termina would be cool. Or maybe for the game to take place when Ganon escapes his seal in Hyurle while Link is gone. In this game you would play as another character, maybe a Sheikah trying to stop Ganon? I don't know.

 

[c3gill]

I would like a game that developed the Fierce Deity. Even though it is doubtful if the comic is canonical or not, it was an awesome read. I really recommend it.

its not- Only the games and what is said by Nintendo Employees, and generally only those high up the chain.

 

[Spire]

its not- Only the games and what is said by Nintendo Employees, and generally only those high up the chain.

And me.

Anyways, I was simply saying, "Pincarnate" that if both were evil, that FD would be lawful and Majora chaotic.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Thanks Spire.

Incidently, if we include the games as canon, how come no one ever tries to place the CDi games in the timeline?

 

[Spire]

Thanks Spire.

Incidently, if we include the games as canon, how come no one ever tries to place the CDi games in the timeline?

That's easy. They are prequels to "Put Your Sword in the Fountain" on the secret third parallel timeline that splits off after Link goes back in time on his magic train to try and stop The Hero of Time in OoT from going to Termina, but gets sucked into yet another Hyrule as two Links cannot exist in the same world. Duuhhhhh.

 

[Skrah]

Lol that would be so much fail.

 

[SkylerOcon]

That's easy. They are prequels to "Put Your Sword in the Fountain" on the secret third parallel timeline that splits off after Link goes back in time on his magic train to try and stop The Hero of Time in OoT from going to Termina, but gets sucked into yet another Hyrule as two Links cannot exist in the same world. Duuhhhhh.

I'm adding this to the OP as the reason why the CDi games aren't included in the timeline.

 

[Spire]

I'm adding this to the OP as the reason why the CDi games aren't included in the timeline.

Good. I'm sure a number of people were questioning where those games went on the timeline. Now all may know the truth!

 

[Skrah]

What is the name of that third mysterious timeline?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Good. I'm sure a number of people were questioning where those games went on the timeline. Now all may know the truth!

Dang, but I wanted to have all that 'dongo bombin' to be real!...

...

 

[comboking]

Okay fill me in on some of this stuff plz.

 

[Spire]

What is the name of that third mysterious timeline?

Well, we have Kid and Adult Link's timelines. The third is simply called:

"The Link to the past - but not the game - on his train timeline".

 

[comboking]

But all the Links are different

 

[Skrah]

Haa nice pun.

Nice. I'm gonna do an extensive research on this third timeline. First, I'll break and enter Miyamoto's house and find the Timeline Document. Then I'll uncover its secrets.

 

[comboking]

Good luck with that. Can I help?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

That's easy. They are prequels to "Put Your Sword in the Fountain" on the secret third parallel timeline that splits off after Link goes back in time on his magic train to try and stop The Hero of Time in OoT from going to Termina, but gets sucked into yet another Hyrule as two Links cannot exist in the same world. Duuhhhhh.

Awesome. So does the Legend of Zelda T.V. show occur before the CDi games in the 3rd timeline, or after the comic book series?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Awesome. So does the Legend of Zelda T.V. show occur before the CDi games in the 3rd timeline, or after the comic book series?

...Also, what about about Captain N...

 

[Spire]

Awesome. So does the Legend of Zelda T.V. show occur before the CDi games in the 3rd timeline, or after the comic book series?

They, and the comic book series come before the CDi games, so the Link from Spirit Tracks who travels back in time and gets transported to Hyrule III is consequently the Link from the TV series and the comics, and the CDi games, and he's the Link from Put Your Sword in the Fountain and Put Your Fountain in the Sword. All of these games/stories happen within only a few months as none are significant. Only Vorguen knows how long PYSitF and PYFitS take place, because they're at the end.

ST -> TV Series/Comic Book -> CDi -> PYSitF/PYFitS

All we know about the last two is that they happen at the same time as Oracle of Ages and Seasons.

 

[c3gill]

They, and the comic book series come before the CDi games, so the Link from Spirit Tracks who travels back in time and gets transported to Hyrule III is consequently the Link from the TV series and the comics, and the CDi games, and he's the Link from Put Your Sword in the Fountain and Put Your Fountain in the Sword. All of these games/stories happen within only a few months as none are significant. Only Vorguen knows how long PYSitF and PYFitS take place, because they're at the end.

ST -> TV Series/Comic Book -> CDi -> PYSitF/PYFitS

All we know about the last two is that they happen at the same time as Oracle of Ages and Seasons.

I think that this has become a little crazy.

 

[Spire]

I think that this has become a little crazy.

It sure has. I'm going to scoot on over to the first two timelines and everything that is real in the Zeldaverse now.

Speaking of which, how could the Biggoron Sword be in Hyrule Castle in TP if Link never had the sword as a child? Perhaps a possible explanation could be that after returning to Hyrule from his Terminian adventure, Link, the Hero of Time, actually became part of another conflict where he obtained the Biggoron Sword (after aging the appropriate years to wield the claymore). I would love a game that chronicled The Hero of Time's third adventure.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It sure has. I'm going to scoot on over to the first two timelines and everything that is real in the Zeldaverse now.

Speaking of which, how could the Biggoron Sword be in Hyrule Castle in TP if Link never had the sword as a child? Perhaps a possible explanation could be that after returning to Hyrule from his Terminian adventure, Link, the Hero of Time, actually became part of another conflict where he obtained the Biggoron Sword (after aging the appropriate years to wield the claymore). I would love a game that chronicled The Hero of Time's third adventure.

It's times like this that make me kinda wish I actually finished OoT.

I'm guessing Biggoron's sword was a gift for the King, much like the Ordonian sword was going to be a gift for Princess (or is it Queen?) Zelda.

Remember that in the TP timeline there is a tradition of giving an offering (of a sword, I guess) to the Royal Family.

 

[comboking]

The biggoron sword is not in TP.
The Biggorons sword is given to Link by the big Goron on Death Mountain.
Hey Spire III can we talk on AiM sometime about this?

 

[Spire]

It's times like this that make me kinda wish I actually finished OoT.

I'm guessing Biggoron's sword was a gift for the King, much like the Ordonian sword was going to be a gift for Princess (or is it Queen?) Zelda.

Remember that in the TP timeline there is a tradition of giving an offering (of a sword, I guess) to the Royal Family.

Ahhh you are right! I did not think of that. Okay, this clears everything up.

I would really like to have known what would have happened in TP if Link actually made it to Hyrule Castle and the festivities commenced and all was well. Early on in the game, I was actually looking forward to that, but King Bulbin screwed everything up.

The biggoron sword is not in TP.
The Biggorons sword is given to Link by the big Goron on Death Mountain.
Hey Spire III can we talk on AiM sometime about this?

Uh, yes, the Biggoron Sword IS in TP. It can be seen in an alcove in one of the hallways in Hyrule Castle. Sure, PM me your screenname and we'll talk.

EDIT: Here is my proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYQFSI_yVu4

 

[Darkslash]

Uh, yes, the Biggoron Sword IS in TP. It can be seen in an alcove in one of the hallways in Hyrule Castle. Sure, PM me your screenname and we'll talk.

Its a different design, and I think this time the Biggoron sword was a ceremonial sword. I think there was more than 4 in Hyrule Castle, near elaborate pieces of armor.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Its a different design, and I think this time the Biggoron sword was a ceremonial sword. I think there was more than 4 in Hyrule Castle, near elaborate pieces of armor.

There were several ceremonial swords in Hyrule castle, but I distinctly remember one of them being different from the others. I don't remember if it was the one in Spire's video though, only that one sword did not look like the others.

Feel free to correct me at any point:

There was a Biggoron in OoT. He had a sword. TP comes after OoT. The Gorons don't have Biggoron's sword in TP. There is a sword in Hyrule castle that looks like Biggoron's sword. Therefore, Biggoron's sword is in Hyrule castle.

I wonder if there are other artifacts for which this logic applies. For example, what ever happened to the Sacred gems from OoT? Do they make a cameo in TP?

Unfortunately, WW doesn't lend itself to searching for artifacts quite so much, because most of hyrule was flooded, and entire races were wiped out.

 

[comboking]

Like the gerudos. Since the Gerudos are dead doesn't that mean once ganon dies its over? Because The have one male every 1000 years but if there are no women they can't.
Right?

 

[Skrah]

Good luck with that. Can I help?

Sure lol.

I wasn't aware of the fact that there was a Biggoron's sword in Hyrule Castle. **** easter eggs that ellude me!

Although it all could mean nothing, but be what I think they are, easter eggs. I mean, how does having the Biggoron's in Hyrule Castle affect the timeline in any way? It's pretty much like finding a graffiti that spells out the company that made the game or something like that. Nevertheless I'll look at the video.

 

[c3gill]

Feel free to correct me at any point:

There was a Biggoron in OoT. He had a sword. TP comes after OoT. The Gorons don't have Biggoron's sword in TP. There is a sword in Hyrule castle that looks like Biggoron's sword. Therefore, Biggoron's sword is in Hyrule castle.

So I guess Giants Knife (identical in appearance to BS, iirc) or any other Goron-made sword is out of question?

Just becuase it has been in games and isnt anymore doesnt mean it MUST be the one in the TP castle.

TP happens in the child timeline, iirc. The sword could have never been made by Biggoron, if he never got eyedrops. Which are given to him by adult link. so the sword was never made in the child timeline.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Like the gerudos. Since the Gerudos are dead doesn't that mean once ganon dies its over? Because The have one male every 1000 years but if there are no women they can't.
Right?

It depends. There is a slight chance that all of Hyrule became partially Gerudo after the great flood.

Sure lol.

I wasn't aware of the fact that there was a Biggoron's sword in Hyrule Castle. **** easter eggs that ellude me!

Although it all could mean nothing, but be what I think they are, easter eggs. I mean, how does having the Biggoron's in Hyrule Castle affect the timeline in any way? It's pretty much like finding a graffiti that spells out the company that made the game or something like that. Nevertheless I'll look at the video.

Personally, I would look at Easter eggs in the Legend of Zelda as the only evidence that there is a timeline at all. If references to other Zelda games are simply disreguarded because of their trivialness, then there is no point in attempting to make a timeline, because there are not enough important details to string the games together.

Of course, that's not necesarily a bad thing. If I had to choose between the confusion of an uncertain timeline or face the impossibility of creating one, I would gladly take the latter, but only if I knew it was impossible. Easter eggs in a Zelda game are exactly what I would personally want, because it would prove once and for all that all timelining is meaningless, and I no longer should give this insanely complex (and interesting) logic puzzle any more thought.

EDIT: Cgill, I don't know a thing about OoT after you get the three magic gems. I can't argue with someone who knows those kinds of details about OoT, nor do I even know what the giant's knife looks like. All I know for certain is that there is a sword that differs from the other three in Hyrule castle, and the Ordonians were going to offer a sword as tribute to the ruling family of Hyrule.

Double Edit: just for fun, why is WW Ganondorf not Ganon? Ganon the big beast appears in every Zelda game Ganondorf is in except WW. It's really odd because Ganon the beast is actually referenced in the intro.

 

[Skrah]

Yes you are right. I was just replying to all the talk about Biggoron's not being in Death Mountain and whatnot.

 

[comboking]

Why is there a child timeline?