Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[TLMSheikant]

Well, Ive been close to beating Volvagia. But when rocks start falling I ALWAYS take damage >_<.

 

[Diddyknight]

OoT 3 heart challenge is sooo fun XD Imma stream it after this week and hopefully get a full on run with 3 hearts in one sitting =D

 

[Firus]

I've been trying a minimalist (without glitches) run of ALttP recently. I've gotten a little distracted by Spirit Tracks, though.

I was initially upset when I realized how little you can skip (you have to get every dungeon Heart Container, plus a majority of the items) without glitches, but it's actually proven quite difficult.

I was REALLY hoping to do a no-sword run, but the fact that it takes literally 7-8 hours of holding right and pressing A to skip past the guards blocking you in the beginning, unless you use an emulator + speed up (which I'm not willing to do since I hate using emulators) is something that immediately turned me off. I'm simply not willing to do that.

There's the other minimalist run which also involves glitches but the ALttP glitches are pretty intense and have a large potential to damage your game, so I don't really want to do it as much as is required.

Anyways, you don't realize how much you love bottles until you cannot use them. That, plus the minimal amount of hearts at the moment, plus the lack of the blue mail (which I'm supposed to have at this point, normally), plus no halved magic, has me stuck at the Ice Palace temporarily. I've gotten to Kholdstare, but my magic power only lasts long enough to get him out of the ice (so I have to use my sword, which is close-range and doesn't do as much damage as the Fire Rod) and the falling ice always kills me after that.

Considering I've beaten the game 5 times now, though, I figure it's time for me to really challenge myself with it.

 

[lanky_gunner]

Well, Ive been close to beating Volvagia. But when rocks start falling I ALWAYS take damage >_<.

Hmm, I think I can help.

It's been a while since I last played, so I don't remember if the rocks randomly fall, or follow you as you go. If it's the latter, then just do an alternating zig-zag across the stage. Like, go straight up the line, turn to your left/right a little bit, then back down until the rocks stop falling. However, if it's the first, the best thing I can tell ya is to watch for the shadows.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Actually, the best solution is to just hang off the side. The edges can be climbed. While there, you cannot be hit by rocks.

 

[Spire]

I enjoy running around on the platform, creating hazardous situations. But yes, that's ^ the easiest way to do it.

 

[Jonas]

A round of applause please to lanky_gunner, the first person who isn't Spire or Skyler to contribute to the news thread!

Seriously guys, don't be shy ;_;

I watch threads like that one to get new info on Zeda...

 

[lanky_gunner]

Wow, I leave for one weekend to go to R3, and the YLoZ got cancelled.

I'm so sad right now.

Come on people, I like the idea of submitting your own stories. Everyone should be near or on a break, so you should have time to write a small story!

I was so looking forward to judging it, too....

 

[SkylerOcon]

Sorry man You can't judge a contest that nobody enters.

I mean hey, if anybody has anything to show for the few weeks they had, then it'll definitely be given a second try. I really wished it would've worked out though. I think the concept was good, but maybe the edges were a bit rough?

 

[Phantom7]

What I really didn't like is that it couldn't be linked to other Zelda games. If it's done well, points shouldn't be deducted. But if it contradicts one of the games, points would have to be deducted. That way, linking to preexisting games would be allowed but not recommended, due to the possible contradictions.

 

[Spire]

ATTN: Everyone -- Please Read

What I really didn't like is that it couldn't be linked to other Zelda games. If it's done well, points shouldn't be deducted. But if it contradicts one of the games, points would have to be deducted. That way, linking to preexisting games would be allowed but not recommended, due to the possible contradictions.

Because the games are linked in such odd and fragile ways, writing stories that directly tie to even just one official title inadvertently links it to many others. You then have situations like, "well because your story provides background info for so-and-so in Ocarina of Time, then that means that so-and-so in A Link to the Past must be effected by the info you gave. But wait.. how exactly are OoT and ALttP related? And what games are based between them if any? What timeline does ALttP come in? Speaking of timelines, if such-and-such info is based before OoT, then doesn't that mean that how it changes over time would be different because of the paths that each timeline takes?"

See Phantom7, this is why I'm against tying fan-fiction to canon. It just causes too many problems that complicate judging way too much. We all have lives and don't want to spend ages deciphering how exactly to judge a story. Deciphering a story is one thing, but figuring out how to judge it when we have an accessible system that is inherently rendered useless because you want to tie your story to one or two official games? Now that's just preposterous. I know you are fervent about staying as close to the games as possible as you've expressed in the Zelda Classic thread, but you must understand why I oppose it.

I was also heavily disappointed with YLoZ 2. We got four pages of hype and, "oh I'm definitely going to enter this time!" but zero people entered. That's a major letdown. I've constantly been trying to come up with project ideas for the SWF Zelda community to keep us creatively active and collaborative, but all have fallen through. Rather than playing the role of the teacher and giving out class projects, I turn the baton over to all of you:

What would you like to do for a community project?

I don't want to lead right now. I will moderate, but I would like all of you to lead and work together. Another question:

Aside from the games themselves, what do you simply love about Zelda? What concepts, ideas, and elements within the games just get you?

EDIT: This thread was created before I even joined SWF. Wowzers.

 

[CRASHiC]

What would you like to do for a community project?-

well if only we had some hard code coaders and people who knew how to animate 3D models, I would suggest using the model rips of Twilight princess to create a Dissida style Zelda fighting game. I've already gaven it a ton of design thought (I'm actually pretty read up on fighting game design and balance). The minor charecters of Twlight are modeled with such vast originality and detail that it would work incredibly well.

Sadly, because this is TOO much, perhaps a smaller Zelda building project using the new Zelda maker or perhaps another program. It would go something like.

1- basic concept (not story, but the concept, like Time, Seasons, Winds, Twlight, Mask, etc.)
2- Plot
3- Items
4- Art style
5-Spriters (on going throughout the rest of the stages, but nearly every stage will rely on the spriters working here)
5.2- Stage discussion (stage because we may not go Field Dungeon) this would be broken up into multiple threads and would involve the actual design of the dungeons, their villans, and their bosses.
6- The actual implication of this into a game form begin. The people who are experienced with the program code would work on it. After the complition of the first stage thread, both 6 threads are created
6.2- While people who can actually code/work the program are working, those who can not are testing the game for glitches.
7- Look back and revison.



Aside from the games themselves, what do you simply love about Zelda? What concepts, ideas, and elements within the games just get you?-

Probably the art design.

Does anyone else find that the members of Telma's resistance were drastically underused, especially considering their outstanding models? I already mentioned it above, but seriously, look at this:

and these charecters get what, maybe 6 written dialogues in the entire game? Its a shame really. I really wish they were more fleshed out. I mean, the woodland children at the begining of the game were more fleshed out as charecters, even the woodland workers (oil, fish, boat)

Its really sad. these could have been fleshed out so much more, to a Wind Waker level.

 

[ZIO]

I never gave it any thought as to WHY I love zelda outside of the games. I just love starting out and already having the world to explore. You may have set backs preventing further exploration, but such is life. We gain what is needed if we have the drive to explore farther and move on to new things.

I love exploring those dungeons, too. But what happens when the games become so overplayed, we know what to expect? Well, that's were charm and nostalgia come in. I find that A Link to the Past to be my favorite game of all time, Symphony of the Night coming in on second. Again, it's the setting, the opened world, and the then outstanding soundtrack. I still play it today, trying new things, methods to what I do. Sometimes I play with the bow and arrow heavily, try a boomerang heavy play, less hearts, etc. Yet, even a standard playthrough is still just as enjoyable.

I really couldn't explain it.


And as for a community project. I'd be willing to try something art related. I like drawing. But, I don't represent the community. <_<

 

[Skrlx]

Totally unrelated but I remember being dazzled by the detail on the girl that you give bugs too. I forgot her name. :/

 

[Phantom7]

Because the games are linked in such odd and fragile ways, writing stories that directly tie to even just one official title inadvertently links it to many others. You then have situations like, "well because your story provides background info for so-and-so in Ocarina of Time, then that means that so-and-so in A Link to the Past must be effected by the info you gave. But wait.. how exactly are OoT and ALttP related? And what games are based between them if any? What timeline does ALttP come in? Speaking of timelines, if such-and-such info is based before OoT, then doesn't that mean that how it changes over time would be different because of the paths that each timeline takes?"

See Phantom7, this is why I'm against tying fan-fiction to canon. It just causes too many problems that complicate judging way too much. We all have lives and don't want to spend ages deciphering how exactly to judge a story. Deciphering a story is one thing, but figuring out how to judge it when we have an accessible system that is inherently rendered useless because you want to tie your story to one or two official games? Now that's just preposterous. I know you are fervent about staying as close to the games as possible as you've expressed in the Zelda Classic thread, but you must understand why I oppose it.

Not all elements of the games are linked to another, and it doesn't have to be judged so strictly. I'm talking about major contradictions. For example, if someone were to explain the existence of the Temple of Time in OoT by saying Zelda built it, a few points should be deducted because OoT does say that the Sages built the Temple of Time. I, myself, do not recommend tying YLoZ entries to existing games much at all, but if it does not include any obvious contradictions to any of the games, then why deduct points? Just because it was tied to an existing game, period? It doesn't take much time at all to say "Wait... Zelda built the Temple of Time? That's incorrect", deduct a few points, and provide evidence. And I don't think you'll be providing evidence for contradictions all day, because most people won't try to link their games to preexisting games, especially if you do not recommend it.

But, there's no point in continuing that debate any further, since YLoZ is canceled. But understand that I do believe you shouldn't restrict yourself from using a few events from preexisting games to build on your own project if you are careful and knowledgeable enough to prevent making contradictions.

 

[Spire]

Not all elements of the games are linked to another, and it doesn't have to be judged so strictly. I'm talking about major contradictions. For example, if someone were to explain the existence of the Temple of Time in OoT by saying Zelda built it, a few points should be deducted because OoT does say that the Sages built the Temple of Time. I, myself, do not recommend tying YLoZ entries to existing games much at all, but if it does not include any obvious contradictions to any of the games, then why deduct points? Just because it was tied to an existing game, period? It doesn't take much time at all to say "Wait... Zelda built the Temple of Time? That's incorrect", deduct a few points, and provide evidence. And I don't think you'll be providing evidence for contradictions all day, because most people won't try to link their games to preexisting games, especially if you do not recommend it.

But, there's no point in continuing that debate any further, since YLoZ is canceled. But understand that I do believe you shouldn't restrict yourself from using a few events from preexisting games to build on your own project if you are careful and knowledgeable enough to prevent making contradictions.

There are two (three) judges and they each view the series differently. We created a system so that each may judge as fairly and balanced as possible, without personal bias. Zelda is all about interpretation, so by eliminating the ability to tie your story to any official games, we eliminate the risk of one judge not noticing the connection, and another slashing big points because of it. It's better in the long run to cut the ties.

Besides, the Temple of Time is said to have been built by the sages, but it is also implied that the Oocca may have had something to do with it too. Terminology evolves and changes over time. For instance, in the SNES ALttP, what we know now as the sages were called "the seven wise men". There are discrepancies of all sorts in the series that ultimately leave the individual to interpretation. Zelda is not textbook, it is fable. As such, it changes with time, just as our history does. What we know as history is simply an agreed-upon fable by the majority of people. The Zelda community drives to carve a stone tablet that all can agree upon, but there will always be loopholes and such.

 

[SkylerOcon]

The Nightmajora Before Christmas

We need to make that.

 

[Phantom7]

There are two (three) judges and they each view the series differently. We created a system so that each may judge as fairly and balanced as possible, without personal bias. Zelda is all about interpretation, so by eliminating the ability to tie your story to any official games, we eliminate the risk of one judge not noticing the connection, and another slashing big points because of it. It's better in the long run to cut the ties.

Besides, the Temple of Time is said to have been built by the sages, but it is also implied that the Oocca may have had something to do with it too. Terminology evolves and changes over time. For instance, in the SNES ALttP, what we know now as the sages were called "the seven wise men". There are discrepancies of all sorts in the series that ultimately leave the individual to interpretation. Zelda is not textbook, it is fable. As such, it changes with time, just as our history does. What we know as history is simply an agreed-upon fable by the majority of people. The Zelda community drives to carve a stone tablet that all can agree upon, but there will always be loopholes and such.

I see your point, but I was talking about allowing very minor links. I don't mean anything at all that would call for major debating, or anything based utterly on individual interpretation. That would be a contradiction, but like history, the Zelda series includes numerous elements that we all agree on that make up the basis of the story. Sometimes, these elements are left intentionally unexplained, allowing our imaginations to do the work. By not allowing the minds of the contestants to wander into these mysteries of the Zelda series cuts away from our imaginations, and instead of creating a Zelda story, we create something new, but likely to be dull, because it does not reflect the Zelda series we know and love. However, with enough creativity, one can form a compelling story that includes Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and the Triforce, but is it actually Zelda or is it a completely new tale that simply utilizes Zelda elements? At that point, you might as well make up new characters, new heroes and villains, and something to replace the Triforce. I believe there is either Zelda or not Zelda -- if it's Zelda, it reflects the story and utilizes its major characters. If it's not Zelda, it has nothing to do with the series at all. Trying to create a medium between the two will never bring the best results.

Skyler -- The Nightmajora Before Christmas is pure genius.

 

[lanky_gunner]

I say the biggest flaw with connecting the stories is each one of us have a different perspective on the Zeld timeline. We may agree on some aspects because they have been prove true, but we don't know exactly how things fall in line.

For example, say one judge believes Zelda game A comes before Zelda game B, while the other is the opposite. By going one direction, you could get a lot of discredit from one judge.

The rule to me is simply to make things easier on your scoring.

Although I do think SOME sort of connection should be made, to make it more Zelda-like (for example, I made up the Temple of Ages and Temple of Seasons to link those games to my story, but it was minor, and had nothing to do with the game themselves, except in title alone).

Sort of a gray area, but something to be discussed in case we start this up again.

 

[Yink]

I need to talk about this.

I find Wind Waker to be a really fun game overall, but there's 2 things I really hate about it. Sailing and

Spoiler

finding the triforce shards

.

I'm not kidding, today while I was searching for said thing above, I jumped in the ocean and a stupid explosive barrel appeared in front of me. I hit it, fell out of my boat and the boat went sailing for a little ways. Then, a shark started harassing me, all while I'm just trying to get back to my boat.

Wind Waker is fun, but little things like that make this game make me not want to play it, which is a shame.

 

[Jonas]

Uh, when is there ever a reason to jump out of your boat in the middle of the ocean?

 

[jorgen aune]

even Tink needs a bath sometimes

i feel like OoT->MM->TP are 200+ years before WW. in WW, the doom has allready been passed down and the whole Hyrule is under the sea. but in the TP-timline you are still on the fields of hyrule, trying to stop Ganon, like if you are able to avoid the raising of the sea level. ...or idk, just threw in my random opinion x)

 

[Yink]

Uh, when is there ever a reason to jump out of your boat in the middle of the ocean?

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't jump out of the boat, I don't even think that's possible while you're moving. I meant it as, "I was jumping with the King of Red Lions and when we landed there was a Blast Box in front of us".

 

[Phantom7]

even Tink needs a bath sometimes

i feel like OoT->MM->TP are 200+ years before WW. in WW, the doom has allready been passed down and the whole Hyrule is under the sea. but in the TP-timline you are still on the fields of hyrule, trying to stop Ganon, like if you are able to avoid the raising of the sea level. ...or idk, just threw in my random opinion x)

Actually, Miyamoto announced himself that TP and WW are parallel in the split timelines. If you haven't heard of the split timeline theory, this is how it is explained: At the very end of OoT, Zelda warps Link back to his missed childhood. Then Link sets off on a new journey to find Navi (MM), which is Timeline A. In the world left without Link, Hyrule is left as it is after OoT. The Godesses flooded Hyrule and hid it beneath the oceans to protect the Sacred Realm from evil (you find this out in WW). This is Timeline B. And yes, TP belongs in Timeline A, since it is parallel to WW.

Theoretically, it should appear like this:

OoT -- MM -- TP
-
WW

But, on the subject of WW, it's extremely fun, and definitely one of my favorites. The Triforce quest is not easy at all, but I found exploring the oceans searching for sacred treasure to be quite enjoyable.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I don't understand how kids got through LoZ without guides back in '86. ESPECIALLY the 2nd Quest. Yeeesh.

I thought Zelda 2 was the hardest one to beat but Zelda 1 2nd Quest is gonna change my mind

 

[Jonas]

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't jump out of the boat, I don't even think that's possible while you're moving. I meant it as, "I was jumping with the King of Red Lions and when we landed there was a Blast Box in front of us".

Aaah. Yeah, I forgot Link's boat could actually jump
I don't think it happens too often though. At one point in the game, you have to sail from that forest island to Windfall. Last time I played, I just set sail and went upstairs to make myself a sandwhich. When I got back again, Link had arrived safely at Windfall. I don't know how that happened, but Link somehow made the journey without my supervision.

I don't understand how kids got through LoZ without guides back in '86. ESPECIALLY the 2nd Quest. Yeeesh.

They didn't necessarily. You could call the Nintendo hotline to ask for tips. Nintendo Power even included a Hyrule map with key locations plotted in with one issue of their magazine.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Aaah. Yeah, I forgot Link's boat could actually jump
I don't think it happens too often though. At one point in the game, you have to sail from that forest island to Windfall. Last time I played, I just set sail and went upstairs to make myself a sandwhich. When I got back again, Link had arrived safely at Windfall. I don't know how that happened, but Link somehow made the journey without my supervision.



They didn't necessarily. You could call the Nintendo hotline to ask for tips. Nintendo Power even included a Hyrule map with key locations plotted in with one issue of their magazine.

True. Plus, I imagine word of mouth got around after a while as well. In that sense it could be almost a really meta multiplayer experience

 

[Firus]

I was out at the mall buying a present for a friend and I finally decided to bite the bullet and bite Twilight Princess for GameCube. I'm psyched to play it once I clear out all of my work. I need to replay it anyway, and I figure it'll be really interesting to replay it after only vaguely remembering it entirely mirrored. Plus, I need to play the canonical version already.

 

[sman5093]

I really liked this gameI really enjoyed the fire temple

 

[Phantom7]

^You mean Goron Mines? TP was excellent, especially story-wise and graphics-wise, but it was too easy. Although, honestly, the fact that it's too easy is my only complaint about the game at all.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

The tetra force theory

Now first of all i would like to say hi because i am new to this site, and second has anyone else heard about this theory because i just saw a video about it and it states that there is a 4th piece to the triforce. at first i was a bit sceptical because the legend only states 3 godesses din,nayru,and farore. but then i dug up a plausable theory out of my head, if any of you remember the desert colossus in ooc. i belive that she maybe the 4th godess,this would make sence because elDIN, LaNAYRU, FARO(RE)n . then why is the 4th godess not named then? well there are 2 theorys for this i will talk about the tetra force one first because that is where mine is. XD ok what i thought is that the fourth godess is not named because she is EVIL (so she kinda has the voldimort treatment going on) AKA DO NOT SPEAK HER NAME! wich would also answer another thred i have sene on this sight the one about who is the devil equivelant in hyrule. meny ppl think that the 4th piece is missing but i think it has just been shadwed over by the other godesses so no living being can see it. another reason to why i think this goddes is evil is because the 3 GOOD godesses pieces point upward to wards the heavens but the invisible pice is pointing downwards to wards her possible domain!One last thing on my theory is that it would explain why gerudo valley is a failing tribe and are very poor so the evil godess called upon her deamon gannon to bring her village that the good godesses took away from her back to life! but one thing that doesnt make sence about my theory is that how does ganondorf always get the power triforce of din so easily every singl time! well this is where th other theory makes scence this theory states that din is the goddes of gerudo aswell and is evil because she trusts her piece with mr.dragmire lol. this theory completely wipes out the tetra force theory. but it is not real there are more facts on the theory i have added to. your thoughts every one?

 

[Luigitoilet]

wow. that's quite a stretch, don't you think? I've heard several Tetraforce theories, and while it's a cool idea I think it was officially debunked by Miyamato or someone.

Also, it would make your post more readable if you split it into several paragraphs!

 

[Phantom7]

I think it's very interesting that the fourth piece of the Triforce is missing, and it's pointing at the ground instead of up. Maybe the Gerudo worshiped this goddess, and that's what the structure in Desert Colossus is? If that's the case, though, what does this goddess represent? (courage, power, wisdom, ___)

I kind of doubt this, really, but it's an enjoyable discussion topic!

 

[Spire]

There is always the possibility that the Lokomo Emblem representing the Force Gems could bear relation to the mythic 4th piece of the Triforce. It is common to see a single upside down golden triangle throughout New Hyrule in Spirit Tracks.

Hmm... I smell a huge spell of fate here. Old Hyrule was established on the principles of the three Triforces, but New Hyrule was established on the fourth piece. Naturally, fate would lead the Link bloodline out of old Hyrule and into new Hyrule to perhaps unify the Triforce as one. This is a total stretch and would make for some good fanfic, but there's a 99% chance that Nintendo does not think in such a way.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

ya just a theory but i was always wondering about that piece in spirit tracks aswell........ great minds think alike!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

lots of ppl belive the earth or red earth its kinda wierd and that is y the theory isnt very well strucktured but i like to TRY TO BELIVE IT

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

I think it's very interesting that the fourth piece of the Triforce is missing, and it's pointing at the ground instead of up. Maybe the Gerudo worshiped this goddess, and that's what the structure in Desert Colossus is? If that's the case, though, what does this goddess represent? (courage, power, wisdom, ___)

I kind of doubt this, really, but it's an enjoyable discussion topic!

Lots of ppl tend to belive that she is the godess of the red earth ( sand i think :s) but that is why the theory isnt very strong, it doesnt have much backup but i like to TRY to belive it I started thinking about this theory when i watched a video on youtube called (odly enough) the tetra force theory u should watch it

 

[Spire]

Lots of ppl tend to belive that she is the godess of the red earth ( sand i think :s) but that is why the theory isnt very strong, it doesnt have much backup but i like to TRY to belive it I started thinking about this theory when i watched a video on youtube called (odly enough) the tetra force theory u should watch it

Well it's specifically stated in OoT that Din created the red (rock) earth.

Also just for the future, don't double-post

 

[comboking]

Ganon is the devil of Hyrule. Link is the god of Hyrule. IMO

While the goddesses created Hyrule they knew it wasn't going to work out. So the Gerudo's were created as to cause sin which birthed Ganon. (I got the sin from their thievery and ganon is evil and also covets the land of Hyrule which is a sin.) (Refer to Ganondorfs speech at the End of WW.) Since Link came around things have been balanced. Good and Evil fight and Good prevails.

This is just my opinion does anyone agree?

 

[zaneebaslave]

Ganon is the devil of Hyrule. Link is the god of Hyrule. IMO

While the goddesses created Hyrule they knew it wasn't going to work out. So the Gerudo's were created as to cause sin which birthed Ganon. (I got the sin from their thievery and ganon is evil and also covets the land of Hyrule which is a sin.) (Refer to Ganondorfs speech at the End of WW.) Since Link came around things have been balanced. Good and Evil fight and Good prevails.

This is just my opinion does anyone agree?

Well... No. No, I dont agree. I mean, for a while (mostly in TP) Ganondorf was considered a god. But his power all originates from the Triforce of power, which he got from the inside of the Temple of Time in OoT. Link plays more f a "Joan of Arc" role in which he's a messenger of the gods... with a sword!

Gerudos are there to be Gerudos. You might as well be saying all women are sin, because Gerudos are all women.