The Metal Discussion (Come in here for the chugga chuzz of the br00tal metal)

[Roboturner]

I have to wear my guitar up really high. It's almost impossible to play technical stuff on my guitar with it hanging low

 

[Luigitoilet]

Man you wear your axe high.

Yup. I have to. we aren't a ****ty deathcore band and I can't play many of my riffs when my guitar is hanging at my balls. In fact I even had to tape the strap together because it didn't hang tight enough for me cuz I'm a little guy. It kinda hinders dancing/headbanging having it up so high, but I'm getting used to it and still try to put on an energetic show. Just gotta find new ways to move

 

[Veetaak]

You should eat some more xD

 

[Geenareeno]

Horse the Band is awesome. I like that Ceruleus.

 

[Luigitoilet]

You should eat some more xD

I have a dreadful appetite, stomach problems, and I eat quite unhealthily.

Horse the Band is awesome. I like that Ceruleus.

you are correct! HtB is my biggest artistic inspiration and I definitely wouldn't be making the kind of music I do if I hadn't discovered them. They inspire me to always experiment and play the music that I really want to. I know people like The Ben probably hate them more than anything in the world but that just makes me happier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNlZcb-DNBE

 

[The Ben]

What? I enjoy quite a bit of experimental music and Horse the Band are pretty decent.

For anyone who hasn't, try some Maudlin Of The Well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DtBM9cP-I

 

[Zwarm]

<3 maudlin of the well

 

[Luigitoilet]

What? I enjoy quite a bit of experimental music and Horse the Band are pretty decent.

For anyone who hasn't, try some Maudlin Of The Well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DtBM9cP-I

That song is so good! oly crap. beautiful album art.


regarding HTB, I'm pleasantly surprised at your opinion! I assumed the opposite, not because they are experimental, but because they are still pretty firmly rooted in hardcore/post-hardcore more than metal which is something I inferred you didn't like from most of your other posts. still though, it helps that even if most of their songs have breakdowns that there is always a twist to it because of the keyboards, and chaotic song structure.

the worst thing about them is how many terrible bands and gimmick subgenres they inspired but can't really blame them for that.

 

[The Ben]

There is actually a lot of positive things I can say about hardcore and post-hardcore (and post-most genres really). It isn't that simply having breakdowns makes a band bad, it's that being a cliched chuggy riff with unemotive breakdowns every 30 seconds band is bad. The thing that separates bands like Botch, Horse the Band, KEN mode, All Pigs Must Die, Integrity, Beecher, Converge and to a lesser extent iwrestledabearonce from bands like As I Lay Dying, Underoath, Chelsea Grin, The Agonist and the like is a sense of intensity. When Job For A Cowboy plays a breakdown its to be expected, when Arsonists Get All The Girls played a breakdown it was like a punch in the face.

 

[Roboturner]

I'm listening to HORSE the band for the first time now and I'm liking it. Thinking about listening to AGATG now

 

[Veetaak]

I personally don't mind predictable breakdowns and such things. Sometimes less is more for me, which is why I can enjoy Emmure's songs. But from a musicians perspective I can understand that you find it boring and un-inspiring

Keep an open mind though, all of us aren't in it to be inspired or become great musicians

 

[the melon!!!!!]

I can enjoy breakdowns in a similar way that Ben described it. Bands like Job, Chelsea Grin, Whitechapel, etc. get boring because of the amount of breakdowns they throw at people, it entertains me for one listen, then bores the hell outta me. I will say this though, Underoath (contrary to what Ben said) always surprises me with how good they are at songwriting (Define The Great Line is a masterpiece of post-hardcore, imo), and I actually still have them in my top 10 favorite bands.

I'm kinda digging Ceruleus a bit, i think i'll keep watching them and see what happens. I'm not a fan of the singers from Volumes though, they both have practically the same sound, so it makes no sense to me that they have both of them XD. Ceruleus's singer suffers the same problem, but at least he's trying to do more than just the same shout XD. Also, Ceruleus's guitarists are much more interesting in their playing than those in Volumes.

 

[Wretched]

I don't like new Whitechapel at all for the first reason you pointed out. Just too much. They become so emotionless.

 

[Geenareeno]

I can respect your opinion, The Ben. I think I would agree with you if I didn't get a high off of pure brutality (that sounds really faggy but I couldn't think of another way to word it). The Ben and Veetaak are like opposite ends of the spectrum of the whole breakdown thing. It's probably one of the most defining features of a heavy metal listener. What they think of breakdowns.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Breakdowns can be the best thing ever, or utter trash.

I have to side with Ben on this.

A breakdown SHOULD be a punch in the face, it shouldn't be just another part of the song. To me, having ten breakdowns in a song doesn't make it more brutal or heavy, it just makes it more predictable, generic, and poppy. Good bands catch you off guard with a breakdown. That really loses its effect when it happens every 20 seconds.

Heaviness/brutality to me is defined mostly by chaotic arrangements, not "low pitched half-tempo chugging and double bass".

don't get me wrong, I love a lot of bands that do the constant breakdowns thing a lot, but I consider that kind of stuff just catchy heavy deathcore more than anything. definitely not brutal or heavy as many of them like to appear. Heaviness should make someone cringe, not want to dance. Emmure isn't heavy. They are pop-metal.

I have the same problem with bands that abuse other music techniques, like sweeping or constant soloing. I can't really get into groups like Animals as Leaders because they seem so concerned with impressing me with their technical skill that they forgot to write a good song.

 

[Wretched]

Emmure thinks that they can just mechanically do what every other band does and assemble it in the most predictable way. They wonder why they get so much hate yet they have to listen to themselves do the same chug for an hour at every show that they play.

Also, their vocalist is one of the worst ever.

 

[Luigitoilet]

One funny thing I noticed is that when I go to shows, there are many bands that I can dance perfectly to even if I've never heard a song of theirs. that's how predictable and stale most deathcore has gotten with its songwriting. I just know when the drops are coming and everything, because it's been done a trillion times.

 

[Geenareeno]

Good posts guys. Let me pose a band like Betraying the Martyrs. Definitely deathcore, but here are the things I think make it special/why I like it. Really good vocals, really good cleans, amazing mixing (it's really bass heavy and just feels brutal), and semi-frequent use of piano/strings/choir. I also think they are good songwriters. Here's a song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykuf11YkmHo

 

[The Ben]

I think I would agree with you if I didn't get a high off of pure brutality (that sounds really faggy but I couldn't think of another way to word it).

The thing is I don't find breakdowns to be particularly brutal sounding anyway. If I want something brutal sounding I'd put on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjnOcglzmzw
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW-6CuBzYzk
Though, in my opinion the most brutal sounding bands aren't even metal bands. Noise acts like Whitehouse, Haus Arafna, and Merzbow have a much more extreme approach to music than I could imagine any metal band having.

Heaviness is another thing entirely though and I think it's more of a tonal thing than a set of techniques. That ultra low reverberating guitar sound you hear in a lot of doom metal sounds heavy but I wouldn't think to call Bongripper or Sleep brutal. They're just really heavy.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Some slick art for Baroness's new album

Both their other albums have some of the best cover art in metal imo

 

[Veetaak]

So we have different definitions of what sounds brutal and different opinions about breakdowns, which is fine.

However, saying that a breakdown "SHOULD" be in this and that way is pretty silly imo. It sounds like you get to decide what music people can play. If one person got to decide how all music should be played then it would be boring for the rest of us haha. It might not have been what you meant but I got that feeling from the use of the word "should"

This is one of my favorite parts in any song which to me is brutal and devestating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nC3OLZ-Njq0#t=102s

"shatter every mirror but yet you reappear
With a crooked smile and weathered face"

His high pitched growls during "shatter every mirror" and "smile" mixed with the heavy music gives me an amazing feeling

 

[Roboturner]

I hope this is true. I'll be seeing all these bands for the second time cept for vildhjarta

 

[Luigitoilet]

So we have different definitions of what sounds brutal and different opinions about breakdowns, which is fine.

However, saying that a breakdown "SHOULD" be in this and that way is pretty silly imo. It sounds like you get to decide what music people can play. If one person got to decide how all music should be played then it would be boring for the rest of us haha. It might not have been what you meant but I got that feeling from the use of the word "should"

This is one of my favorite parts in any song which to me is brutal and devestating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nC3OLZ-Njq0#t=102s

"shatter every mirror but yet you reappear
With a crooked smile and weathered face"

His high pitched growls during "shatter every mirror" and "smile" mixed with the heavy music gives me an amazing feeling

I didn't mean it in an authoritative sense, but music is really important to me and it makes me upset when a genre that used to excite me is becoming a legion of factory-formed, by the numbers songs that a machine could have written. With "should" I'm declaring what I think people should strive for (exploring new ideas, more or less) and if they don't they are dumb and I probably hate them. hahahah jk or am I

 

[Veetaak]

Even though you don't like the majority of the bands within a genre you (used) to like, there are still bands you like, right? So it shouldn't really be a problem.
You guys can explore new ideas while I enjoy the things we've already got ^^

Tell me if you find anything intresting xD

 

[Luigitoilet]

yeah, it's not a bad thing that those kinds of bands exist, and I don't really have a problem with people liking that stuff I don't...but I just don't have much respect for the bands themselves if that makes any sense.

 

[The Ben]

Yeah, when I say something should be a certain way I'm just stating my opinion. I didn't think I needed to preface my opinions with "this is just my opinion but..." since it isn't like music exists in absolute terms. I don't expect anyone to experience music the same way I do, nor do I expect my musical experiences to be universally accepted.

With that said, some of my favorite metal is post-metal. The raw atmosphere and trance-like quality a lot of it has blows my mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PYwPMnUCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_txvddNHr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSTyyv075_s

 

[Veetaak]

I just realized that I don't really listen to alot of metalcore bands anymore. I don't know if it may be because of all the mediocre breakdowns or if it's just gotten boring for other reasons. There are a few metalcore bands I still really enjoy but it seems like Riserecords have kinda ruined it for me because alot of bands try to sound just like the bands in that label making it tough for me to find bands that I like in that genre.

Post-hardcore seems to be the genre that doesn't grow old at all for me. I still very much enjoy the old Silverstein, Underoath, Greeley Estates and The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus songs

 

[Lore]

I just realized that I don't really listen to alot of metalcore bands anymore. I don't know if it may be because of all the mediocre breakdowns or if it's just gotten boring for other reasons. There are a few metalcore bands I still really enjoy but it seems like Riserecords have kinda ruined it for me because alot of bands try to sound just like the bands in that label making it tough for me to find bands that I like in that genre.

I ran into the same issue a couple years ago, and it let me realize that I was listening to way too much metalcore. Now might be a good time to branch out a bit; that issue is what got me into so many new genres, haha.

Anyway, I've had a lot of people recommend Protest the Hero to me. What's a good album of theirs to check out first?

Also, I'm modding this room now, but as long as you guys keep it under control in here, as usual, we shouldn't have a problem.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that I am loving post-metal right now. Battle of Mice is fantastic.

 

[TheBluAssassin]

My favorite Metal band is Venom. They created Thrash and Black Metal. All other Metal bands, no matter how good, are inferior.

 

[Roboturner]

Just download all 3 Protest albums. They are all good. But I would listen to Fortress first because that was my first listen

I am also excited for the Summer Slaughter tour. BTBAM, The Faceless, Periphery, and Veil of Maya make the 7 hour trip to ATL worth it

 

[Veetaak]

My friend is so pissed because Periphery and BTBAM are playing a show in Stockholm 16th of October which is 2 days before he turns 18 so he can't go XDDDDD

He is so mad :D:D

 

[Luigitoilet]

Anyway, I've had a lot of people recommend Protest the Hero to me. What's a good album of theirs to check out first?

Fortress or Kezia. I say skip Scurrilous entirely unless you really really like the other two. I haven't met anyone who liked Scurillous too much including me. Though it's not bad either, it's just not half as good as the first two.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

My favorite Metal band is Venom. They created Thrash and Black Metal. All other Metal bands, no matter how good, are inferior.

But are they, as a band, the world's seventh largest economy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZX62imOapU
No. No they're not.

 

[The Ben]

Not metal, but metal related. Mikeal Akerfeldt and Steven Wilson did a thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZhP9Mtxo5c

Spoiler

Also the album leaked, not that I condone piracy.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I love post-metal! along with heavier post-rock bands like Red Sparowes and Mogwai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4s6Oo5T86c one of my favorite song intros ever. just sublime with that drum buildup and then the lap slide guitar. yngngngnh

i'm just getting over my obsession with Russian Circles. Empros is awesommme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iH-vmOGh3s

it's just as good as Enter. I like it because it feels like a slight change of direction after Geneva which sounded like they were getting kinda stale in their songwriting. Empros is just enough experimenting but also the classic Russian Circles sound that I really like it. Can't wait to see them live someday.

a great newer band, East of the Wall came out with a BRILLIANT album last year. atmospheric, technical, and passionate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZh6INr-KaI really, listen to this song. the whole album is just as good. one of the biggest out of left field surprises for me in the past couple years. I'd never heard of this band before, and after The Apologist they are on my radar hardcore

 

[Roboturner]

Listening to Opeth for the first time in what... 6 years? Can't believe I listened to this when I was 13.

TRVE KVLT

also does anybody have last.fm? I'm curious to everyone's taste outside of metal.

 

[Luigitoilet]

whaaat? opeth is legit, depending on the song you're listening to.

also they're hardly a band i'd apply "kvlt" label to. their last album was entirely 1970s psychedelic rock and I don't think they even perform songs that have harsh vocals in them anymore. plus they aren't underground at all. they're more like Dream Theater only not quite as embarrassing to listen to.

 

[Lore]

LT, that's some great stuff. I'll be checking out the albums of most of those bands.

I would share my last.fm, but my iPod stopped scrobbling with it, so I stopped caring about it.

 

[Wretched]

Scurrilous sounds over produced, soft, whiny, and it focuses too much on defining Protest the Hero as progressive metal. Rody, after writing some of Fortress, said in an interview a form of "the goal of our music is to be brutal" and you could hear that Rody was attempting to become more hardcore with heavier songs such as Limb from Limb, Sequoia Throne, and Bloodmeat, all songs he wrote. He growled some, but it was very disheartening. He actually screamed pretty well, but I digress.

Scurrilous completely flipped the page on Protest the Hero's identity. They had no genre and they couldn't make themselves as hardcore as Rody wanted, so Rody invented this silly idea of reinventing the band as a progressive metal band without any extreme vocals and a bunch of falsetto bull**** that Rody can't even do live for more than one song.

Worst of all, the depth of their lyrics became non-existent. I mean, obviously they took a step down after Fortress but I didn't think Rody would resort to making songs like C'est la Vie and telling people not to kill themseles or him telling people not to smoke. Really, he made issues in each song much more obvious than all of the mystery surrounding Kezia and some of Fortress.

 

[Roboturner]

whaaat? opeth is legit, depending on the song you're listening to.

also they're hardly a band i'd apply "kvlt" label to. their last album was entirely 1970s psychedelic rock and I don't think they even perform songs that have harsh vocals in them anymore. plus they aren't underground at all. they're more like Dream Theater only not quite as embarrassing to listen to.

haha i know, i was just being stupid. Opeth to a 13 year old boy is pretty heavy I'd say.

well if you want to see mine anyway, http://www.last.fm/user/Phazix

Scurrilous sounds over produced, soft, whiny, and it focuses too much on defining Protest the Hero as progressive metal. Rody, after writing some of Fortress, said in an interview a form of "the goal of our music is to be brutal" and you could hear that Rody was attempting to become more hardcore with heavier songs such as Limb from Limb, Sequoia Throne, and Bloodmeat, all songs he wrote. He growled some, but it was very disheartening. He actually screamed pretty well, but I digress.

Scurrilous completely flipped the page on Protest the Hero's identity. They had no genre and they couldn't make themselves as hardcore as Rody wanted, so Rody invented this silly idea of reinventing the band as a progressive metal band without any extreme vocals and a bunch of falsetto bull**** that Rody can't even do live for more than one song.

Worst of all, the depth of their lyrics became non-existent. I mean, obviously they took a step down after Fortress but I didn't think Rody would resort to making songs like C'est la Vie and telling people not to kill themseles or him telling people not to smoke. Really, he made issues in each song much more obvious than all of the mystery surrounding Kezia and some of Fortress.

When I think of Protest the Hero, I don't think of them as "brutal", they wouldn't sound right that way. I mean sure they do get heavy in those songs, but I like they have a cool catch in most of their songs. I think that is wear the artistic difference comes in, because I know Luke hates Kezia now.

But let's face it, you don't listen to metal for lyrics. Kezia and Fortress are much better albums for lyrics but they are still pretty sub-par sometimes.

Rody has always been a bad vocalist live regardless, he needs to quit smoking.

The guitar work in Scurrilous is much better and more focused than Fortess too, that's because they were actually good enough to write it and not write above their skill level like they did on Kezia and Fortess.

But to each their own, I respect your opinion.