The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[Tony_]

The real reason why MK should be banned is because of his ledge game. If it gets to the point where only he can possibly recover, then a hard ban should be considered.

 

[Espy Rose]

As RDK and several others including myself have already suggested, having tournaments without MK would be the easiest way to see how diverse the metagame would become should MK be missing in action.

That doesn't mean that they can't also have tournaments WITH MK as well. Hell, throw two tournaments, one with MK allowed, and one with MK banned.

It could possibly speed up other characters development due to the lack of MKs people would fight against in the No MK Tournaments.

He shouldn't be, in a sense, banned from play. There should just be some tournaments that don't have him as an option.

 

[A2ZOMG]

At this point, I hear some high level professionals saying that all of MK's matchups are legitimately in his favor. INCLUDING Snake.

When you hear things like that, it makes me consider banning MK, but honestly it doesn't seem anybody yet has actually proven that MK in top level performance is unstoppable.

At this point in the metagame, MK at the very least is given significant trouble by Snake, G&W, Marth and maybe Diddy, DK, and Falco.

I think we just need to see more tourney results in the future. =/

 

[Nicole]

personally, as a sonic main, i'd love to see MK get banned. that being said, i think it's highly unfair to any dedicated MK mainer. how would you like it if the character you'd chosen to main got banned? i realize MK is rather broken, but banning him is too extreme. i would love to play in some tourneys without him present though...

That doesn't mean that they can't also have tournaments WITH MK as well. Hell, throw two tournaments, one with MK allowed, and one with MK banned.

yes!

 

[adumbrodeus]

At this point, I hear some high level professionals saying that all of MK's matchups are legitimately in his favor. INCLUDING Snake.

When you hear things like that, it makes me consider banning MK, but honestly it doesn't seem anybody yet has actually proven that MK in top level performance is unstoppable.

At this point in the metagame, MK at the very least is given significant trouble by Snake, G&W, Marth and maybe Diddy, DK, and Falco.

I think we just need to see more tourney results in the future. =/

Yes, that's pretty much the issue.

Not everything in his favor, but no bad match-ups, neutral at best.


With proper spacing (which is tip of the blade range) MK has a definite advantage against Snake. Sure, Snake stops most of the B moves with grenades, but MK outranges all his safe options in melee range. F-tilt, only the second strike can touch him (which is completely unsafe).

From there he can pressure with dtilt, ftilt, or shorthopped fair. Basically, if you play this match-up as if you were Marth, you win the pressure game by a massive margin, once you get in a hit MK's rushdown is far superior as well. Recovery.... yeah, MK harrasses it nicely. Snake can just kill him early. It's 60-40.

Marth... he just doesn't have any safe options because MK's dtilt outranges his. He has to play defense, and MK's offense is ultimately better. 60-40.

DK is similar to Snake, again space as if you were a Marth, you've got better spacing tools then DK. All he really has is he can kill you early. 60-40.

Falco is a no, he's got the lasers but it's not enough to keep MK back, and MK royally outclasses him in melee range. Again, space well, and he's got nothing. 65-35 I think.


Diddy and G&W are possibilities, Diddy possibly for an advantage.

 

[Green_Swirl]

To ban MK means we lose.

 

[Brinzy]

adum, I enjoyed that post. Taking a wait and see approach on this is probably the best option as it stands right now.

 

[mutalisk332]

This is a video game. The rules are arbitrary. It's the job of the game designer to craft those rules to make the game appealing. And when the designer makes mistakes (he is human, like the rest of us) it's up to the communtiy to patch them up (unless it happens to be a game like starcraft where the game desigers can patch for us). We ban stages. We ban items. We ban techniques. Why not characters? At some point, only one thing is important. The goal of a tournament organizer, first and formost, is to make money, correct?

So the question is whether more people would attend tounraments with metaknight banned than with metaknight as a playable character. Would the number of people offended by banning MK be more or less than the number of people who are sick of fighting against him every friggen match?

Ithink it's far too early to tell...

 

[Scala]

yoshi is even, I think Diddy could be even as well with what his bananas do to all of MK's specials.

 

[RDK]

This is a video game. The rules are arbitrary. It's the job of the game designer to craft those rules to make the game appealing. And when the designer makes mistakes (he is human, like the rest of us) it's up to the communtiy to patch them up (unless it happens to be a game like starcraft where the game desigers can patch for us). We ban stages. We ban items. We ban techniques. Why not characters? At some point, only one thing is important. The goal of a tournament organizer, first and formost, is to make money, correct?

So the question is whether more people would attend tounraments with metaknight banned than with metaknight as a playable character. Would the number of people offended by banning MK be more or less than the number of people who are sick of fighting against him every friggen match?

Ithink it's far too early to tell...

This is why we suggested experimental tournaments of that type. There's no reason to go forcing everyone to play sans-MK without any solid evidence that it would be better that way.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Metaknight's Neutral B is NOT a good move. You just have to space your attack and it's a free hit pretty much everytime.

Metaknight is not broken, not one bit. He does have an advantage against almost everyone, yes, but he's certainly not broken.

If you lose against Metaknight, it's not his fault for being better than your character. It's your fault for choosing a character worse than Metaknight.

You have the choice to choose Metaknight. You're restricting yourself from winning, Meta isn't.

if you lose against anyone playing any character, it's your fault for not knowing how to beat that character. you're not great at the game yet, period.

 

[Espy Rose]

Ithink it's far too early to tell...

I don't think so. Many people are already complaining about MK. All we have to do right now, really, is see the results of the first MK-Banned Tournament, including turn-out, characters used, etc.

The only way we could be 100% sure of anything we discuss in this thread, is if we experiment.

Take action, don't just say something, DO something.

 

[MarKO X]

Well, for starters, I read something a couple of pages back about Akuma winning every tournament back in the day before he was banned... and yeah it's true. And it's not just the air fireball...

The air fireball breaks the game because no character is designed to truly defend against it. Yes, you can block it, but if you get caught in the corner at the right distance away from Akuma and you start blocking, you get caught in the worst trap of fireballs ever. You can block to death, or you can take fireballs till you get dizzy and eat a death combo.

Which reminds me, Akuma was also waaaay too powerful. Every hit he did destroyed your life bar with supremacy.

And his combos were too broken. Just the simple Hurricane Kick to Dragon Punch that's common knowledge was too awesome in ST, now imagine putting in a couple of low light kicks in before the Hurricane... yes, you just got owned.

Oh yeah, you think you survived the onslaught Akuma provides? Think again, his three hit fireball that he can shoot at will has this ultimate hitbox that no attack reversal can avoid. And there's hardly any lag on it...

Now the question is this... is MK that powerful? Or even that awesome? To some degree, he might be. He lacks a true weakness that can be exploited on a consistent basis, if you add up the lag frames for all of his attacks, they don't add up to the lag frames of half a moveset for another character, his recovery IS the best of the best (5 jumps & gliding, + shuttle loop that initiates another glide), incredible range for his size (a ******* that size should not have range like his, meaning you have to get past his range to hit small target), speed... he is the perfect warrior. However, as it stands, he isn't unbeatable... yet. There is a good possibility that soon, the metagame for metaknight will be unbeatable, and when that happens, he'll have to be banned.

But that's the question that has to be asked... do you see a future where MK will be completely unbeatable? Personally, it's hard to tell because the metagame of Brawl is still young.

 

[Brinzy]

MK is not up to Akuma's level. He doesn't blatantly destroy everyone and he doesn't have normal moves that completely break the game mechanics.

 

[Tony_]

The real reason why MK should be banned is because of his ledge game. If it gets to the point where only he can possibly recover, then a hard ban should be considered.

Glad someone read this lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

MK is not up to Akuma's level. He doesn't blatantly destroy everyone and he doesn't have normal moves that completely break the game mechanics.

He doesn't need to break mechanics per say.

Similar to Old Sagat it is possible he may be banned due to how much he reduces viability.

Unless my memory is off and old Sagat was not banned .

 

[adumbrodeus]

adum, I enjoyed that post. Taking a wait and see approach on this is probably the best option as it stands right now.

Thanks, I try.

Really I'm hoping that somebody picks up on the "what is bannable" point, because I doubt that any two people really have the same criteria here, and figuring out exactly what level is wokable is the first step to figuring out a hard rule for community tolerance of brokenness.

That and my point that, "if the metagame was mature now, he'd be bannable".


Of course, it's not, so lets get to waiting and metagame development.

He doesn't need to break mechanics per say.

Similar to Old Sagat it is possible he may be banned due to how much he reduces viability.

Unless my memory is off and old Sagat was not banned .

In Japan he is, in America he isn't.


But it's warranted in his case, albeit a boarderline case. MK is further on the ban-side at the moment, but that could change.

 

[Brinzy]

Glad someone read this lol.

There are other characters who have incredible ledge games. Pikachu is one that comes to mind almost immediately. I don't see why that would have the biggest impact on banning MK.

He doesn't need to break mechanics per say.

Similar to Old Sagat it is possible he may be banned due to how much he reduces viability.

Unless my memory is off and old Sagat was not banned .

Yeah, I'd rather compare MK to Old Sagat than Akuma, which was the main thing I was aiming for in that statement.

 

[Niko_K]

Everyone knows banning MK would make this game a lot more enjoyable.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm I wish I was in the SBR just to see what they thought of the situation.

It would be rather enlightening.

And yes banning MK would make the game more enjoyable.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yeah, I'd rather compare MK to Old Sagat than Akuma, which was the main thing I was aiming for in that statement.

Definitely the best comparison here, though he definitely outclasses Old Sagat in that regard ATM.



You're all copy-cats, I was comparing MK to old Sagat before it was cool, lol.



Actually, I mentioned this is the tier list thread a while back when Snake was still top tier, might not have not have explicitly mentioned Old Sagat, but he was the comparison I was going for.

 

[i.E.]

I also think it'd make the game more enjoyable if he were banned. Tournament results are so stupid up to this point (for the most part).

It is early though, and he doesn't break the game. It's just that without metaknight in this game, it seems like it could maybe even open up the metagame for other characters....

not to mention, we wouldn't see so many god d*** metaknights at tournaments. It gets old...it really does...

 

[Brinzy]

Definitely the best comparison here, though he definitely outclasses Old Sagat in that regard ATM.



You're all copy-cats, I was comparing MK to old Sagat before it was cool, lol.

Hey, at least we're copying a brilliant thought, right? Hahaha.

But seriously, you couldn't have said it better. I'll just work on my characters while I watch how things turn out.

 

[Tony_]

There are other characters who have incredible ledge games. Pikachu is one that comes to mind almost immediately. I don't see why that would have the biggest impact on banning MK.

MK can out prio almost all attempts to gimp him. MK can also glide to recover and further more, gimp you even further, preventing any kind of a recovery. I think that is kinda broken.

 

[Brinzy]

It certainly does place him on a pedestal, I won't deny that. However, it's a bit complicated to ban based off of those things, simply because people will look at the raw idea and then ask questions:

- If MK can glide, then why don't we ban Pit and Charizard? If Charizard is banned, then should we just ban Pokémon Trainer or force the opponent to switch?

- If MK can gimp just by being able to stay off stage for a very long time, then why don't we get rid of Jigglypuff who can do virtually the same thing?


I'm not saying that this will ever be the case, but if we ban MK for things like that, you'd have to answer for everyone who can do things virtually the same manner (albeit definitely to a lesser extent). His ledge game does pretty much add onto reasons why his presence kills off characters' viability, but the same could be said for a few others and their ledge games or their gimping + recovery abilities.

 

[RDK]

- If MK can glide, then why don't we ban Pit and Charizard? If Charizard is banned, then should we just ban Pokémon Trainer or force the opponent to switch?

- If MK can gimp just by being able to stay off stage for a very long time, then why don't we get rid of Jigglypuff who can do virtually the same thing?

Well, what you're doing now is punishing characters that have attributes of MK. The main selling point of him warranting a ban is that he's an amalgamy of all those good things; so much so that it's overwhelming.

So saying that Charizard should be banned because he glides like MK or that Kirby / Jiggs should be banned because they have a recovery comparable to MK is just a fallacious argument. That would be like banning Falco for his lasers.

It's the combination of a lot of really good things that makes MK possibly ban-worthy.

 

[Tony_]

Well, what you're doing now is punishing characters that have attributes of MK. The main selling point of him warranting a ban is that he's an amalgamy of all those good things; so much so that it's overwhelming.

So saying that Charizard should be banned because he glides like MK or that Kirby / Jiggs should be banned because they have a recovery comparable to MK is just a fallacious argument. That would be like banning Falco for his lasers.

It's the combination of a lot of really good things that makes MK possibly ban-worthy.

Bravo. *gives gold star* =P

 

[acv]

banning mk would be pointless and would just show how people cant adapt.if mk is banned then people will just use the next best character.tournament diversity wont change .

 

[Browny]

i cant see what more than half the cast can possibly do to beat an MK who uses nothing but upb-glide attack to dsmash over and over again. properly spaced its practically unpunishable, and its so easy to spam a few ftilts to get the dsmash back to full power for an easy KO.

 

[Brinzy]

Well, what you're doing now is punishing characters that have attributes of MK. The main selling point of him warranting a ban is that he's an amalgamy of all those good things; so much so that it's overwhelming.

So saying that Charizard should be banned because he glides like MK or that Kirby / Jiggs should be banned because they have a recovery comparable to MK is just a fallacious argument. That would be like banning Falco for his lasers.

It's the combination of a lot of really good things that makes MK possibly ban-worthy.

Note that I, personally, am not saying that this is what should happen. I posted,

"However, it's a bit complicated to ban based off of those things, simply because people will look at the raw idea and then ask questions:"

I then put up some of the questions that would be asked. If your argument is that, "MK is too good and they are not, so MK gets the ban and they do not" (which is essentially what you're saying since he has it all and they do not), nobody would listen to you. You can't say that you're banning MK because of his ledge camping abilities (what I was first talking about anyway) because what about the others who were named that can do practically the same thing, just to a much lesser extent? Are they fine because they're just not good enough at it all? Is MK bad here because he CAN do all of those things collectively?

Ledge camping alone is not the biggest reason to ban MK. You say the main selling point is that he can do it all - the person I was responding to said that it's his ledge camping. Not the same thing, and hence the specific targeting and possible questions.

 

[Bakithi]

you don't exist though.

MK is cool. I think I'll main him now.

I find it truly hilarious how you contradicted the whole topic.

Anyway, you guys are right. Meta Knight is becoming over-used, from what I've seen. And to me, every MK user has the same tactic, especially at Final Destination. Just side smash, side smash, and side smash, then do a shuttle loop. It gets annoying. =|

Seeing as this is an "intelligent discussion", I'll stay out of this one, and let the grown-up smashers talk. x|

 

[acv]

I find it truly hilarious how you contradicted the whole topic.

Anyway, you guys are right. Meta Knight is becoming over-used, from what I've seen. And to me, every MK user has the same tactic, especially at Final Destination. Just side smash, side smash, and side smash, then do a shuttle loop. It gets annoying. =|

Seeing as this is an "intelligent discussion", I'll stay out of this one, and let the grown-up smashers talk. x|

its funny how you mencioned his most punishable moves,the fact that he is overused depends on the people.

 

[saberhof]

What sucks about meta knight, he has been juiced out in all he can do and everyone knows what can happen, so just counter it, it is very easy if you do know the match up pretty well...

i don't find the character really up for banning there's nothing really that outstanding he can do, there's not a mind that's perfect out there to counter everything you do, there will always be a counter...always...i don't find meta knight a threat...i find ice climbers more annoying...and i don't really know that match up...

there's so much stuff in other characters that hasn't been looked at, but the fastest characters are almost done with =P....people are gonna move on....because as i said, there will always be a counter...if it isn't a character counter, then a move/thing you do....i don't find the character really hard to beat,all you need is the mind to know and remember what hes going to do, its not what your character is able to do...

pretty specific rant huh??....

 

[Yonder]

Personally, I just don't like much Meta Knights are at tourneys, like tons. Pretty soon, there's only going to be Meta Knight unless we find a way to counter him somehow.

What get's me the most is how people drop their characters they wroked on so much and they actually like, for MK, i've seen it happen to quite a efw on this site.

Overall, no, he's not going to get banned, but if he did, we would actually see other characters!

 

[CO18]

Mk doesnt need to be banned not even close, why is this in discussion. Just learn how to beat him, I **** mks now.

Hes no doubt the best in the game currently but he is not so broken that he is almost impossible to ebat.

 

[FBM]

If MK becomes overwhelmingly prominent in the tourney scene, those who stick with the rest of the cast will be very accustomed to playing against him and might perform better against MKs who haven't had similar experience vs other characters (or MK's metagame might evolve so much that it's all MK dittos ).

The main selling point of him warranting a ban is that he's an amalgamy of all those good things; so much so that it's overwhelming.

That's "amalgam."

 

[The Real Inferno]

I just wanted to point out a few problems with this argument though I may or may not disagree with what it says.

No Items. Metaknight ONLY. Final Destination.​

Seriously, though Metaknight won't be banned nor should he. He's good, he might even be the best character in the game like some believe Fox was in Melee, but he is not unbeatable. In competitive play he will always be a difficult matchup(unless you are playing a scrub), but the better player will always win.

This is not true. If the better player always one, then one player would never lose to certain people. i.e. if M2K is overlall better than Azen, then Azen would never beat M2K. This of course is a lie and thus, even though one must be better than the other, the better player does not always win, even though this is often stated as fact by many people. The proper thing to say would be that "The person who plays better that round/match/day always wins. But even in that case, there is a small fraction of a chance, that the person who played better will still trip into Ike Forward Smash (everytime someone trips into Ike's Forward Smash, Sakurai giggles somewhere in Japan).

Characters are banned in video games because they possess broken moves, meaning the game was simply wasn't designed to handle it's usage in any way or form.

Every single one of MetaKnight's moves can be defended against, and or countered.

This isn't technically true, it's just that the most obvious example happens to have this true about him (that being Akuma). The real reason things are banned from any competitive type of game (examples: Card games, video games, etc) is that it controls the entire game by itself. What this means is that Akuma's broken techniques, made it to wear the entire game revolved around him. For an example outside of video games, Magic the Gathering bans or limits cards to keep the entire tourney scene from turning into a single deck played exactly the same when something is realized to be too powerful.

As cited over and over again Akuma from Super Turbo Street Fighter is a broken character, and is rightfully banned. In higher levels of play there are no 'tough match-ups",no bumps or neutrals or even lost rounds(similar to stocks in Smash),no other character can ever--ever win against him. His air fireball used in competitive play breaks the game , and he cannot be defeated unless you are a better Akuma.

This is a nitpick of mine, but this is a false statement. A very very very select few (2-3) can defeat Akuma, while much of the cast either will always have a massive uphill battle or cannot defeat at all. This is actually the exact same thing people are complaining about with Meta right at this moment, in that he has characters who can beat him, but even they have trouble doing it and much of the rest of the cast has no hope. At least -half- of a 35 character roster cannot defeat Metaknight in high level play. Super Turbo doesn't have nearly a roster that size, so it's a bit hard to compare directly but you can see the line of thinking some people are going to take here.

MK has been known to lose to Snake as a possible counter pick, and I'm sure he's lost to several other characters in competitve play aswell.

Falcos and Foxes lost to Mewtwos in Melee, I wouldn't exactly call him a counterpick for them. When you take into account banning a character you can't use arbitrary results, you have to look at it from the point of view, of when the characters are being played at highest potential, who will win? n all actuality, at the highest potential, Meta should be quite capable of gimping Snake. (of course there is a Snake counter argument to this that we won't bother touching because I'm lazy, that was just to make a point).

So, I'm not really sure where we are headed in Brawl. On the one hand, banning Meta actually has quite a few good qualities to it (most notably making half the cast more viable than they were before, this adding to tourney variety and competition, which oddly enough was one of the main reasons given for Akuma in that it opened up alot of characters for use that would have otherwise been off limits). On the other hand, banning Meta would be awkward, and controversal and kind of lame. It's always incredibly disappointing when a character becomes off-limits in a game, especially to those who simply enjoyed that character rather than tier whored for it. I have actually seen a few MK free tournies already. But all throughout Melee's lifespan you also saw Fox/Falco/Shiek-free tournaments as well. There will always be people who would rather ban chars than ever have to deal with them.

 

[Vyse]

I said this before in the SBR ruleset discussion.

Metaknight is beatable. Look at XII.E.S.T.I.C.L.E.
A slew of Metaknights (M2K among them) were beaten by Azen's Lucario, Chu's Kirby, and NinjaLink's Diddy.

I really don't ever see Metaknight being banned.

 

[Cirno]

I just wanted to point out a few problems with this argument though I may or may not disagree with what it says.




This is not true. If the better player always one, then one player would never lose to certain people. i.e. if M2K is overlall better than Azen, then Azen would never beat M2K. This of course is a lie and thus, even though one must be better than the other, the better player does not always win, even though this is often stated as fact by many people. The proper thing to say would be that "The person who plays better that round/match/day always wins. But even in that case, there is a small fraction of a chance, that the person who played better will still trip into Ike Forward Smash (everytime someone trips into Ike's Forward Smash, Sakurai giggles somewhere in Japan).

Ahh, that's pretty much I meant. Unlike the game characters we don't have any set attributes.We can even grow in-game. Thanks for the clarification for me though.

And I know about the trip-> Ike Fsmash.

I didn't believe it until I went up against a Marth with my Jiggs.

I tripped and he was just there. He had no sympathy for me, probably because he was fighting for his friends. Instant death even though he told me to prepare myself.

u_u;;

This isn't technically true, it's just that the most obvious example happens to have this true about him (that being Akuma). The real reason things are banned from any competitive type of game (examples: Card games, video games, etc) is that it controls the entire game by itself. What this means is that Akuma's broken techniques, made it to wear the entire game revolved around him. For an example outside of video games, Magic the Gathering bans or limits cards to keep the entire tourney scene from turning into a single deck played exactly the same when something is realized to be too powerful.

Haha.
The example I used wasn't good enough to include other forms of competitive play aside from fighting games. Even then though, looking at why certain things control entire games, it would appear that the thing in question does something nothing else can, thus scenarios for cases in it's usage don't exist inherently and the option to do anything about it simply isn't there.

This is a nitpick of mine, but this is a false statement. A very very very select few (2-3) can defeat Akuma, while much of the cast either will always have a massive uphill battle or cannot defeat at all. This is actually the exact same thing people are complaining about with Meta right at this moment, in that he has characters who can beat him, but even they have trouble doing it and much of the rest of the cast has no hope. At least -half- of a 35 character roster cannot defeat Metaknight in high level play. Super Turbo doesn't have nearly a roster that size, so it's a bit hard to compare directly but you can see the line of thinking some people are going to take here.

I kept thinking of Old Sagat when I typed that, but decided against it since the majority of fights I've seen vs Akuma that wasn't Akuma, had a very drastic difference between skill levels.(Sometimes the Akuma player would play him to full extent and others not so much.)

People always arrive at that conclusion during the development of the metagame .We may be having hell of fun doing it but we are still playing to win. I haven't seen any better or even equally skilled players use too many of the cast against Metaknight, so I can't really say anything about half the cast having no chance,but looking at the hitbox for his glide-attack and his low air-maneuverability during jumps, I'd have to say half of the cast isn't doing it rite.

:d

Falcos and Foxes lost to Mewtwos in Melee, I wouldn't exactly call him a counterpick for them. When you take into account banning a character you can't use arbitrary results, you have to look at it from the point of view, of when the characters are being played at highest potential, who will win? n all actuality, at the highest potential, Meta should be quite capable of gimping Snake. (of course there is a Snake counter argument to this that we won't bother touching because I'm lazy, that was just to make a point).

Uphill battle for Mewtwo though. O:

The problem with the idea of highest potential however, is everyone has a different idea of what is the best way to play a character. I often see very aggressive MKs dominating or falling just short of a win(also falling into Ike's Fsmash),while I have also seen calm distance judging and perfect spacing do well, and rarely not as well as tornado spam.

The argument for highest potential MK beating Snake can also be said vice versa. Stage control and spacing with god-tier tilts do wonders,not to mention nades in a tornado.
Even off stage c4 recovery can be enough to make it back to the stage in higher levels, let alone highest level.

So, I'm not really sure where we are headed in Brawl. On the one hand, banning Meta actually has quite a few good qualities to it (most notably making half the cast more viable than they were before, this adding to tourney variety and competition, which oddly enough was one of the main reasons given for Akuma in that it opened up alot of characters for use that would have otherwise been off limits). On the other hand, banning Meta would be awkward, and controversal and kind of lame. It's always incredibly disappointing when a character becomes off-limits in a game, especially to those who simply enjoyed that character rather than tier whored for it. I have actually seen a few MK free tournies already. But all throughout Melee's lifespan you also saw Fox/Falco/Shiek-free tournaments as well. There will always be people who would rather ban chars than ever have to deal with them.

I don't think anyone is sure, but as Smashers we'll all be trying our best to make this experience as good or better than the awesome years of Melee we had(and have). I think in the same sense if half the cast is dominated by MK,that same half will still be as viable towards character who were good or neutral against MK, though I hope my or anyone's Falcon can knee his way to the top two in a tourney one day. If the community can agree on his ban for a while to see how things go,I support fully, but I believe he will be coming back as more and more characters get temp-banned.

I'm one of the people who picked up MK because I liked him, though I will admit a big factor in liking him was his speed(The other main factor being he was Marth's new rival in a sense--as Roy was not included). So I'd be pretty disappointed if I couldn't use him, but for the good of the community, if he must go he must go. I haven't seen any MK free, but I'd like to hear who got played as a result. I saw a Fox soft-ban at Otakon once. Seeing a pro Kirby beat some scrub's Fox was pretty satisfying. But I don't think it can top the feeling of beating a MK with Luigi.

 

[SOVAman]

Everyone knows banning MK would make this game a lot more enjoyable.

Yes it would and here is why


So why can't they just ban him it will make the competitive scene better in general and also for the last two months MK's have been placing top 8 with more then one MK placing top 8 at a time at the same tournament no other character have 2 or more places top 8 in a single tournament only very rarely unlike MK it happens all the time. I am not saying they always win but they always get multiple placings. That alone is bad for the competitive scene.

Here are some examples if you have not been keeping up with the results or you don't know. I have also posted the links to the original results if you would like to see the full results.

Cyberjocks Smash CASH Results! http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189774
1: Plank (Meta Knight)($560.00)
2: Neo (Marth)($160.00)
3: KingAce (meta knight)
4: Ambrose (meta knight)
5: Minus (Falco)
5: Percon (snake)
7: Pika (Pikachu)
7: Yannich (Yoshi)

ECRC event #2 - XII.E.S.T.I.C.L.E. Results Thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187907
1: Azen --> Lucario
2: Chudat --> Kirby
3: NinjaLink --> Diddy Kong
4: m2k --> Metaknight / Dedede
5: Plank --> Metaknight
5: Omni --> Metaknight
7: Omegablackmage --> Game & Watch
7: Forte --> Metaknight

FIU Brawl Summer Tournament, 8-9-08 Miami, FL: The results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187855
1: Seibrik ($452.40) (Snake, DeeDeeDee, Meta Knight)
2: Afro Thundah ($226.20) (Snake, Meta Knight)
3: cDoc ($75.40) (Pit)
4: HRnut (Snake, Game & Watch, Marth, how many more characters?!!!!)
5: Chops (Snake)
5: ESAM (Samus, Pikachu, Yoshi)
7: Bonesaw (Meta Knight, Snake)
7: 8-Bit (Snake, Meta Knight, Olimar)

The Four Swords are Bringing Sexy Back! results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185323
1. OBM (Game and Watch)
2. Buuman (DDD, Metaknight)
3. Noodles (ROB)
4. OWM (ROB)
5. Prince of Fire (Metaknight, Snake)
5. JV Smooth (Metaknight)
7. Jam Stunna (Ike)
7. Pipe (Game and Watch, ROB)



GOML 1 Brawl Tournament Results ~ July 26th 2008
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185144
1. KingAce (MK)
2. Percon (Snake/DDD/Kirby)
3. [wt]Jigglethepuff (Jigglypuff)
4. Ambrose (MK/GW/DDD)
5. [wt]Bug (GW)
5. [wt]Meehow (MK)
7. NickCam (Wario)
7. GK (Shiek/ZSS)

H2YL Presents - Critical Hit 3
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180664
1: Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2: Azen Zagenite (Lucario)
3: Chillindude829 (Falco)
4. Neo (Marth)
5. Forte (Meta Knight)
6. PC Chris (Snake)
7. Plairnkk (Meta Knight)
7. Die Super Fly (Snake)

HOBO 8 (7/26/08) 88 entrants!!!!!!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185163
1: T-rex (Snake)
2: Dr Mario Kart (metaknight)
3: Mr.3000 (sonic)
4: Sethlon (falco)
5: Gnes (metaknight)
5: Sandtrap (metaknight)
7: Xyro (samus)
7: Kalo Kross (wolf)

Ostotes results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185086
1: omega blackmage (Gaw)
1: Cort (Snake/mk)
3: Buuman (mk/D3)
4: Cat Fight (Snake)
5: Chum (mk)
5: Kevin (Snake)
7: Ref (Ness)
7: Shane (Olimar)



Philly Gamers, June 6th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181580
1: Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2: DieSuperFly (Snake)
3: dmbrandon (Meta Knight)
4: Inui (Snake/Marth/Dedede)
5: Lord Knight
5: Velocity
7: RoguePit
7: AK

HOBO 7 (June 21) Results-Houston, Tx
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177609
1: RoyR ($353.50) (Marth)
2: Sethlon ($101.00) (Falco)
3: Stiltz ($50.50) (Meta/Olimar)
4: Sand (Meta/Lucario)
5: Boost (Dedede/Meta)
5: Rockettrainer (Lucario/Marth)
7: FlipHop (DK/Diddy/Kirby)
7: Xyro (Samus)

Essence Weekend Tournament Results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180919
1: Cyphus and Lee (split) [IC/DK & MK/Snake respectively] $162 each
3: Cluck [MK] $36
4: David [Snake]
5: Rezee [ROB]
5: John Wu [Lucario/ Falco]
7: Loki [MK]
7: Batto [Marth]

Centex 1 Results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177605
1 - Hylian - (G&W / Falco)
2 - Dojo - (Metaknight)
3 - Dr. mario kart (Metaknight)
4 - Santi (Toon Link / Marth)
5 - Lee Harris - (ROB / Ganon / Falco / Snake)Cyberjocks Smash CASH Results! http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189774
1: Plank (Meta Knight)($560.00)
2: Neo (Marth)($160.00)
3: KingAce (meta knight)
4: Ambrose (meta knight)
5: Minus (Falco)
5: Percon (snake)
7: Pika (Pikachu)
7: Yannich (Yoshi)

ECRC event #2 - XII.E.S.T.I.C.L.E. Results Thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187907
1: Azen --> Lucario
2: Chudat --> Kirby
3: NinjaLink --> Diddy Kong
4: m2k --> Metaknight / Dedede
5: Plank --> Metaknight
5: Omni --> Metaknight
7: Omegablackmage --> Game & Watch
7: Forte --> Metaknight

FIU Brawl Summer Tournament, 8-9-08 Miami, FL: The results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187855
1: Seibrik ($452.40) (Snake, DeeDeeDee, Meta Knight)
2: Afro Thundah ($226.20) (Snake, Meta Knight)
3: cDoc ($75.40) (Pit)
4: HRnut (Snake, Game & Watch, Marth, how many more characters?!!!!)
5: Chops (Snake)
5: ESAM (Samus, Pikachu, Yoshi)
7: Bonesaw (Meta Knight, Snake)
7: 8-Bit (Snake, Meta Knight, Olimar)

The Four Swords are Bringing Sexy Back! results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185323
1. OBM (Game and Watch)
2. Buuman (DDD, Metaknight)
3. Noodles (ROB)
4. OWM (ROB)
5. Prince of Fire (Metaknight, Snake)
5. JV Smooth (Metaknight)
7. Jam Stunna (Ike)
7. Pipe (Game and Watch, ROB)



GOML 1 Brawl Tournament Results ~ July 26th 2008
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185144
1. KingAce (MK)
2. Percon (Snake/DDD/Kirby)
3. [wt]Jigglethepuff (Jigglypuff)
4. Ambrose (MK/GW/DDD)
5. [wt]Bug (GW)
5. [wt]Meehow (MK)
7. NickCam (Wario)
7. GK (Shiek/ZSS)

H2YL Presents - Critical Hit 3
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180664
1: Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2: Azen Zagenite (Lucario)
3: Chillindude829 (Falco)
4. Neo (Marth)
5. Forte (Meta Knight)
6. PC Chris (Snake)
7. Plairnkk (Meta Knight)
7. Die Super Fly (Snake)

HOBO 8 (7/26/08) 88 entrants!!!!!!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185163
1: T-rex (Snake)
2: Dr Mario Kart (metaknight)
3: Mr.3000 (sonic)
4: Sethlon (falco)
5: Gnes (metaknight)
5: Sandtrap (metaknight)
7: Xyro (samus)
7: Kalo Kross (wolf)

Ostotes results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185086
1: omega blackmage (Gaw)
1: Cort (Snake/mk)
3: Buuman (mk/D3)
4: Cat Fight (Snake)
5: Chum (mk)
5: Kevin (Snake)
7: Ref (Ness)
7: Shane (Olimar)



Philly Gamers, June 6th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181580
1: Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2: DieSuperFly (Snake)
3: dmbrandon (Meta Knight)
4: Inui (Snake/Marth/Dedede)
5: Lord Knight
5: Velocity
7: RoguePit
7: AK

HOBO 7 (June 21) Results-Houston, Tx
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177609
1: RoyR ($353.50) (Marth)
2: Sethlon ($101.00) (Falco)
3: Stiltz ($50.50) (Meta/Olimar)
4: Sand (Meta/Lucario)
5: Boost (Dedede/Meta)
5: Rockettrainer (Lucario/Marth)
7: FlipHop (DK/Diddy/Kirby)
7: Xyro (Samus)

Essence Weekend Tournament Results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180919
1: Cyphus and Lee (split) [IC/DK & MK/Snake respectively] $162 each
3: Cluck [MK] $36
4: David [Snake]
5: Rezee [ROB]
5: John Wu [Lucario/ Falco]
7: Loki [MK]
7: Batto [Marth]

Centex 1 Results
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177605
1 - Hylian - (G&W / Falco)
2 - Dojo - (Metaknight)
3 - Dr. mario kart (Metaknight)
4 - Santi (Toon Link / Marth)
5 - Lee Harris - (ROB / Ganon / Falco / Snake)


Thats a lot of MKs