The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[§leepy God]

I think people was too drunk to think that Meta Knight should be banned. He can be beat by better skills. Even though he is easy to use, he still can be beat by raw skills still. I'm sorry but I can't see this happening with out a lot of Meta Knight main's getting pissed off about it.

 

[BBQ°]

I think we should discuss if we should put a rule against Tapping B on the Tornado.

It's still a good move if you don't tap it, and it gives people actually a better shot against it.

That is pretty much the only true broken aspect of his game.

I agree. Metaknight does however have more going for him than the tornado but any little thing we can take away from him will be a lot nicer.

 

[OrlanduEX]

As of now, based on Sirlin's rules for bans which we all follow, MK is not ban worthy. He is not quite the only viable character. At first everyone whined about Snake's brokenness and now we are whining about MK.

One of two things will happen

1) We figure out collectively how to beat MK and beat him.
2) MK goes on to dominate the metagame entirely Super Turbo Akuma style and eventually gets banned.

Honestly, I think the first will be the case just because people are beating MK's right now, and the truth of the matter is that barring a newly discovered tech or glitch, MK can't get any better. We can only learn more about other characters and stages that can consistently beat MK (if they exist, lol).

This is a challenge that faces EVERY competitive fighting game community: How to beat the seemingly "broken" character that wins all the tournaments. This happened with Sheik in Melee, with Steve Fox in Tekken 5, and with plenty of other characters in various other communities. Don't jump to the conclusion of banning just yet. We definitely aren't at that point.

 

[Dark Sonic]

advantage over the rest of the cast?i clearly remember characters doing well against MK.

No, they just don't do bad against Metaknight. No character actually has an advantageous matchup against Metaknight. Or at least none have been agreed upon.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ecept banning moves/type of moves is stupid.
For that we might as well ban Pit's usage of arrows.
Samus' abuse of Zair.

See what I mean?
Why take away a move from MK when by itself, can be countered?

 

[petrie911]

Hmm, an official discussion about whether MK should be banned. This is starting to look like what's happening to Garchomp...

 

[RDK]

advantage over the rest of the cast?i clearly remember characters doing well against MK.

My bad; I meant a large majority of the cast.

Ecept banning moves/type of moves is stupid.
For that we might as well ban Pit's usage of arrows.
Samus' abuse of Zair.

See what I mean?
Why take away a move from MK when by itself, can be countered?

Banning single moves is not a good idea, only because problems about whether or not it was intentional will arise. Also, this debate has come up before about things like intentional stalling, etc. It's just impractical and difficult to monitor every single match for things that are hard to catch or define.

Besides--once you go off banning single moves, where do you draw the line? Then people will want to start banning other single moves, and so on.

 

[theONEjanitor]

mk is overpowered, but he's not broken. just learn to beat em, the fact that there are several players out there than consistently know how to deal with metaknights ends this thread

 

[ShadowLink84]

oh yeah forgot about that RDK >.<

 

[OrlanduEX]

Hmm, an official discussion about whether MK should be banned. This is starting to look like what's happening to Garchomp...

Do tell. I haven't been keeping up with the Pokemon metagame. I left after the Advance generation when Skarmbliss, Salamence, and various forms of Tyrannitar were wreaking havoc.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Banning garchomp?
Laughable idea.

 

[Mmac]

Ecept banning moves/type of moves is stupid.
For that we might as well ban Pit's usage of arrows.
Samus' abuse of Zair.

See what I mean?
Why take away a move from MK when by itself, can be countered?

This is completely different though, and I didn't say ban the move altogether. A Full priority tornado is very hard to break for some characters, almost impossible for most, and a few characters can't even break it whatsoever and will always lose stupidly to a tactical spammer. The fact that it last's a long time, has a Giant hitbox, and has barley any ending lag on the ground, is just stupid.

A ground Tornado I can deal with, but a Full one is just... dumb

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ah well thats tough Mmac. its mean and cruel but thats the fact.
Link's and Samus' Zair are very effective against many characters but you can't exactly ban its usage.


Or bomb smashing either.

Refer to RDk for more.

 

[Vulcan55]

You can't compare MK to anyone from Melee.
Every character in Melee has weaknesses.

IMO, wether MK gets banned is only a matter of time.
If he does, I might start playing this game competitively.
(NOTE: I'm not being a scrub and saying that MK is why I don't)

 

[Demenise]

Metaknight's Neutral B is NOT a good move. You just have to space your attack and it's a free hit pretty much everytime.

Metaknight is not broken, not one bit. He does have an advantage against almost everyone, yes, but he's certainly not broken.

If you lose against Metaknight, it's not his fault for being better than your character. It's your fault for choosing a character worse than Metaknight.

You have the choice to choose Metaknight. You're restricting yourself from winning, Meta isn't.

 

[OrlanduEX]

Here's an idea. If MK gets so good that we all get bored, maybe we can all play item tournaments Evo style just to shake things up lol.

 

[Solo Assass1n]

Metaknight's Neutral B is NOT a good move. You just have to space your attack and it's a free hit pretty much everytime.

Metaknight is not broken, not one bit. He does have an advantage against almost everyone, yes, but he's certainly not broken.

If you lose against Metaknight, it's not his fault for being better than your character. It's your fault for choosing a character worse than Metaknight.

You have the choice to choose Metaknight. You're restricting yourself from winning, Meta isn't.

It's exactly because of reasons like those that a big competitive scene will not rise for brawl, because not everyone wants to play as MetaKnight.

 

[Brinzy]

Ah well thats tough Mmac. its mean and cruel but thats the fact.
Link's and Samus' Zair are very effective against many characters but you can't exactly ban its usage.


Or bomb smashing either.

Refer to RDk for more.

You can't really compare their zair to MK's neutral B, but I get your point.

Metaknight's Neutral B is NOT a good move.

Is it a bad move?


Iiiii didn't think so.

 

[Demenise]

It's exactly because of reasons like those that a big competitive scene will not rise for brawl, because not everyone wants to play as MetaKnight.

Not really. I'm actually a supporter of practicing with bad characters and trying to make them better (hence why I play Falcon.) However, I'm sick of all the johns when someone loses to a Metaknight.

 

[vinni57]

I resent the idea of metaknight or any other character being banned. a single move or something I understand but a character, no.

 

[Brinzy]

Not really. I'm actually a supporter of practicing with bad characters and trying to make them better (hence why I play Falcon.) However, I'm sick of all the johns when someone loses to a Metaknight.

lol, you think that it's just because people lose to a Metaknight? If my Ness got his *** handed to him by Marth, how would I have a right to whine about that? In fact, I don't think anyone who knew the match-up would whine.

No, people aren't just saying this because they're losing to him. Think about it.

 

[Rogue Pit]

A lot of post in the past 9 hours. Keep it up guys, were making a big difference.

 

[Espy Rose]

One of the only solutions, from what I could see, would be just to host some Tournaments with MK banned, and see where the games go from there.

Even Snake, Dedede, and Falco have some exploitable weakness.

If the tournament goes great, then we could move on with discussing holding MK-Free Tournaments, and Tournaments with MK, separately.

It'd be like Low Tier tournaments for Melee.

 

[MarKO X]

Define "broken." MK works perfectly fine. That's why he wins.

 

[Solo Assass1n]

Define "broken." MK works perfectly fine. That's why he wins.

MetaKnight ALONE might not be broken, but in the hands of at least a mildly skilled player (let alone very skilled,) it becomes so immensely difficult to win the match with any character below his tier.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I don't think we should ban MK.

Let's just ban his moveset.

No moves? No problem!

 

[Foxtrotter]

I don't think we should ban MK.

Let's just ban his moveset.

No moves? No problem!

There we go! Problem solved!

Good job, Tim.



To the idea of banning any of Meta Knight's moves:

Is there any way to make absolutely sure that no player uses dair, uair, and the like? Truly, it would be very difficult, if not impossible.

 

[Cirno]

No Items. Metaknight ONLY. Final Destination.​

Seriously, though Metaknight won't be banned nor should he. He's good, he might even be the best character in the game like some believe Fox was in Melee, but he is not unbeatable. In competitive play he will always be a difficult matchup(unless you are playing a scrub), but the better player will always win.


Characters are banned in video games because they possess broken moves, meaning the game was simply wasn't designed to handle it's usage in any way or form.

Every single one of MetaKnight's moves can be defended against, and or countered.

Even M2K, who many believe to have the best MetaKnight, could not 3 stock Azen's Ike, despite his tier position.

As cited over and over again Akuma from Super Turbo Street Fighter is a broken character, and is rightfully banned. In higher levels of play there are no 'tough match-ups",no bumps or neutrals or even lost rounds(similar to stocks in Smash),no other character can ever--ever win against him. His air fireball used in competitive play breaks the game , and he cannot be defeated unless you are a better Akuma.


MK has been known to lose to Snake as a possible counter pick, and I'm sure he's lost to several other characters in competitve play aswell.

If there is a player tactic or style that seems unbeatable, learn it, and counter it. I've found that Peach and Pit do well against his speed due to their sliding properties( Pit: Spot dodge | Peach Dtilt) and I've had my recovery gimped by a good Mario through the use of multiple airdodges->footstools as I retaliated ending in a caped Drill Rush.

I have never even seen a good Falcon 3 stocked either.(but then if we're playing to win we'll see him just as often as Mewtwo and pichu in tourneys for now anyway...)

In anycase, MetaKnight is not a broken character, just because you can't handle a player tactic, does not mean the game was not designed to handle a move, and he will not be banned.

On another note, Snake's utilt has the most unrealistic hitbox I have ever seen in a video game ever, but several characters have deceptive range(Lucario being the only understandable one) and the lag on it's ending allowing it to be countered would technically make it not broken. He's won't be going anywhere either.


To end this already too long post, if you're playing to win, you are using the character best suited to your style (if you play best using approaching or camping projectiles MK is not your guy). Don't let anyone tell you that the way you are playing or the reason you are playing (for money, for the challenge, ect) is not fun. You decide that.

 

[ShortFuse]

I agree with OrlanduEX but there's one thing. After a while, no one would want play a game that requires so much time and dedication in learning how to counter one character. People will give up. MetaKnight is Brawl's stain on the competitive scene.
If you haven't read my post on page 9, in summary:
This will really hurt Brawl's appeal. Sure everyone has commit to learning how to play MetaKnight but too many people will give up. Yes, MetaKnight is too good. Anyone who says otherwise isn't realizing the potential he has in hands of well skilled player. . Brawl won't have the same lasting appeal as Melee. Will people still play this game competitively after 5 years like Melee. I'm not sure.
I'm repeating my post that's on here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190540&page=9

 

[Morrigan]

No Items. Metaknight ONLY. Final Destination.

 

[ToP CaT]

how pointless is this thread? do you really think people will ban a character? nuff said..

 

[Foxtrotter]

how pointless is this thread? do you really think people will ban a character? nuff said..

If you're trying to be a troll,

Otherwise, yes, it is possible that a community, specifically fighting ones, could ban a certain character.

 

[Brinzy]

The point of this thread is so half of the board won't be covered with this thread.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I wasn't making up facts. I was speaking hypothetically. If you're not intelligent enough to realize that, then it was probably my fault for not stating it.

Also, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you antagonize people for holding different views than you.

1. You seriously don't exist. I'm not kidding.

2. You were referring to a situation where you only face MKs and Snakes in the semi-finals and up, yet this discussion is only about MK, and Snake wasn't mentioned much anywhere. Even in the post you responded to, Snake wasn't mentioned. Thus, your "hypothetical" didn't much sense to me in the context of the situation as I, and most other people, do NOT place Snake on the same level as MK. Not only that, but your "hypothetical" was stated as if it were actual tournament experience. Which is silly, because you don't have Brawl tournament experience since you don't actually exist.

3. I don't antagonize people. I antagonize you. Given, I don't actually do that on purpose, nor do I single you out. You just talk as if everything were a "fact" that you're simply repeating. And I'm merely pointing out that the things you think are "facts" aren't at all. Sorry if you take it too personally, but I've given up on sugarcoating my words.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I stopped maining him a while back. XD

-Ter

 

[RDK]

2. You were referring to a situation where you only face MKs and Snakes in the semi-finals and up, yet this discussion is only about MK, and Snake wasn't mentioned much anywhere. Even in the post you responded to, Snake wasn't mentioned.

So what? Did there have to be a reference to Snake in order to show that he's a good character? I was merely alluding to the fact that Snake and MK are played by a large portion of people.

Thus, your "hypothetical" didn't much sense to me in the context of the situation as I, and most other people, do NOT place Snake on the same level as MK.

Neither do I. I implied nothing more that they are both good characters; quite possibly the most used in the future. I don't see the point of your argument.

Not only that, but your "hypothetical" was stated as if it were actual tournament experience. Which is silly, because you don't have Brawl tournament experience since you don't actually exist.

As I said before, it was a hypothetical. I shouldn't have to explain what that means to you, and I very well shouldn't have to put a tag on the end of my post so people like you will know what I'm saying.

3. I don't antagonize people. I antagonize you. Given, I don't actually do that on purpose, nor do I single you out. You just talk as if everything were a "fact" that you're simply repeating. And I'm merely pointing out that the things you think are "facts" aren't at all. Sorry if you take it too personally, but I've given up on sugarcoating my words.

Again, if you'd actually listen to what I'm trying to say instead of immediately pre-judging my posts because you don't like me, maybe the situation would be different. I don't state my opinions as facts, and if it seems like that to you, then that is in no way my fault. It is, however, your fault for falsely assuming that I do state my opinions as facts, and then blasting everything I say because of it.

 

[Kakashi421]

I think people was too drunk to think that Meta Knight should be banned. He can be beat by better skills. Even though he is easy to use, he still can be beat by raw skills still. I'm sorry but I can't see this happening with out a lot of Meta Knight main's getting pissed off about it.

That is true. Meta Knight's can be beaten by skill, banning MK's would be outragious and less people would go to tournaments also.

 

[Brinzy]

Also, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you antagonize people for holding different views than you.

... sounds like you're stating your opinion as a fact here, but whatever, this isn't really my place to speak.

 

[Espy Rose]

That is true. Meta Knight's can be beaten by skill, banning MK's would be outragious and less people would go to tournaments also.

There's really only one way to find out.

Hold MK-Free Tournaments.

 

[Kakashi421]

There's really only one way to find out.

Hold MK-Free Tournaments.

That is true. I wonder how many people show up.