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The Lucas Boards' QnA Thread
- Thread starter ZMan
- Start date
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
Lucas does best on Norfair and Brinstar. If you care about winning with a single main, he's not a good choice. Marth and Mr. Game & Watch are some of his worst matchups.
Noa.
Smash Master
If I'm trying to pick up Lucas, what should be the first things that I learn? What are Lucas' most horrible and best matchups, along with who should he pick up as a secondary? What are the most common strategies for approaching, spacing, camping and recovering? What are his reliable kill moves and damage racking moves. I know that I'm asking a lot and I'll start to read some Lucas guides to get a handle on the basics. But some of them are outdated, so I'm just asking here for more recent information. I appreciate the effort of anyone who answers these questions.
ChaosTheoryX
Smash Lord
TYR's guide has information that is still extremely up to date so thats a great place to start
Yoshi-Kirby
Smash Journeyman
First things you should learn should be how to use his moves effectively, how the matchups works and knowing when and where to use ATs or just basic moves(my opinion, some others may be different). Lucas's worst matchups are the Deadly 4 - MK, DK, Marth, and GnW, worst one is probably GnW. After a while though, some, like DK and MK, aren't that hard if you get a lot of practice in. His best matchups are CF(lol), Ganon, Jiggz, DDD, Ike, Bowser, Fox, and maybe Samus. For a secondary, someone like MK or Marth would be the best choices. Approaching moves should mainly be Nair and Dair, Nair works very well on shields and Dair can set up kill moves and Dtilt locks. Spacing should, of course, be PK Fire. Camping is PK Fire too, gotta <3 that move. Recovery, you really shouldn't use PKT2 unless you need it, but Magnet Pulling and Zap Jump and Wave Zap can help recover, along with Rope Snake. PKT2 works also, but can be gimped by most characters. Reliable kill moves are, of course, Fsmash. Some moves, like Dtilt, Dair, and Nair, can set up kill moves, like Dsmash or Fsmash. Usmash is risky, and should be used to punish bad airdodging and spotdodging, and even staying on the ledge, gotta <3 that hitbox. For racking up damage, Nair, Dair, maybe Uair, if used effectively, and rack up damage fast, along with PK Fire of course. A bunch of information is in my AT Guide, and some other Lucases made Combo Vids and vids showing how to do some other moves with Lucas. Try to watch some vids on well known Lucases, like Galeon or APC. Hope all of this helps you! 
Noa.
Smash Master
Even MORE questions
Thanks a lot Yoshi-Kirby. It was really helpful.
The reason why I asked is because I have a cousin who wants to start getting into competitive smash. He mains Lucas, so I want to help him get started. I told him that it'll be hard for him because he mains low tier, but he doesn't mind.
Anyways, Lucas' worst matchups are DK, MK, G&W and Marth. Are there anymore matchups that forces a Lucas main to bring up a secondary?
What should be among the first thing that a new Lucas main should focus on? I want to get the important points across to him first, and then we can focus on the things of lesser importance.
What are the best Lucas players? Yoshi-Kirby mentioned Galeon and APC, but what are some other notable players.
From what I read in Tyr's stage guide, brinstar and norfair are good stages for Lucas. I would like to know what makes a good stage and bad stage for Lucas, along with just some examples of good and bad stages.
I know that I do ask a lot, but I really do appreciate this information, and I'm sure you're glad to help a new Lucas main. Thank you.
EDIT: I just checked the video thread, and none of the videos are in 09! And there are so many! There should be a limit on the number of videos that can be posted.
Thanks a lot Yoshi-Kirby. It was really helpful.
The reason why I asked is because I have a cousin who wants to start getting into competitive smash. He mains Lucas, so I want to help him get started. I told him that it'll be hard for him because he mains low tier, but he doesn't mind.
Anyways, Lucas' worst matchups are DK, MK, G&W and Marth. Are there anymore matchups that forces a Lucas main to bring up a secondary?
What should be among the first thing that a new Lucas main should focus on? I want to get the important points across to him first, and then we can focus on the things of lesser importance.
What are the best Lucas players? Yoshi-Kirby mentioned Galeon and APC, but what are some other notable players.
From what I read in Tyr's stage guide, brinstar and norfair are good stages for Lucas. I would like to know what makes a good stage and bad stage for Lucas, along with just some examples of good and bad stages.
I know that I do ask a lot, but I really do appreciate this information, and I'm sure you're glad to help a new Lucas main. Thank you.
EDIT: I just checked the video thread, and none of the videos are in 09! And there are so many! There should be a limit on the number of videos that can be posted.
Noa.
Smash Master
lol. I apologize. I didn't see the second post. Unfortunately, your videos seem to have an incorrect url or something, since they don't work.
Meh, I'm pretty nitpicky.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
This is delving into more general and non-Lucas specific stuff, but it's vital that a new Smash player familiarize themselves with the timing and range of every move in their character's arsenal. Do this before worrying at all about advanced techniques. This should really go without saying, but it never hurts to be thorough.
For advanced stuff, check out Tyr's guide.
For advanced stuff, check out Tyr's guide.
prOAPC
Smash Lord
i uploaded some fights yesterday, wacht MY video thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170054
i won't say i have problems vs a certain characters, generally i have problems vs people that plays defensely and spam projectiles, and sometimes if they like to grab a lot
the very first thing you have to learn, is how to recover from everywhere, how to use pkt, zap jump, magnet pull, tether, wave zap, etc.
you can learn a lot by just watching APC (me), Okin and Galeon. Other notable players are Oats, Bubbleman and Irsic
Brinstar and Norfair are good for Lucas, because he can recover easily, can gimp easier and chaingrabs doesn't work really good there. Bad stages, large flat stages, and stages like Yoshi Story can destroy your recover (with pkt2)
i don't know why you asked again, YS said everything
i won't say i have problems vs a certain characters, generally i have problems vs people that plays defensely and spam projectiles, and sometimes if they like to grab a lot
the very first thing you have to learn, is how to recover from everywhere, how to use pkt, zap jump, magnet pull, tether, wave zap, etc.
you can learn a lot by just watching APC (me), Okin and Galeon. Other notable players are Oats, Bubbleman and Irsic
Brinstar and Norfair are good for Lucas, because he can recover easily, can gimp easier and chaingrabs doesn't work really good there. Bad stages, large flat stages, and stages like Yoshi Story can destroy your recover (with pkt2)
i don't know why you asked again, YS said everything
Noa.
Smash Master
Thanks for all the answers. I think that I got it mostly covered. I'll be sure to make sure that my cousin gets the information that he needs.
Hmm, you're right. That's pretty irritating. I'll let the topic creator know.
Dekar173
Justice Man
I've got a question for you Zman. Is Salty's flaming self coming to my tourney this Saturday?
abhishekh
Smash Journeyman
Bah quick questions:
I can manage to do that really high jump (Pkfire glitch, where you jump really high), but I can't really do it all the time, not to mention I feel more comfortable with smashes on the cstick...
Especially since I like to use dair, a lot (Like jumping across the stage using downair)
I know its a stupid thing to do, at least it sounds like one. Any ideas on how to break the habit?
I also find pk2 a lot easier to recover with, i havent rebounded off the ledge in FD in god knows how long.
Opinions? Help? D:
I can manage to do that really high jump (Pkfire glitch, where you jump really high), but I can't really do it all the time, not to mention I feel more comfortable with smashes on the cstick...
Especially since I like to use dair, a lot (Like jumping across the stage using downair)
I know its a stupid thing to do, at least it sounds like one. Any ideas on how to break the habit?
I also find pk2 a lot easier to recover with, i havent rebounded off the ledge in FD in god knows how long.
Opinions? Help? D:
Levitas
the moon
Welcome to smashboards ^_^
Practice to get the zap jump down. If you want to keep cstick for the default settings (which I use, too), set jump to a different button. L or R would be a good idea since they're redundant. Or you could claw it (change how you hold the controller for the zap jump), but that's awkward for me.
I'm not sure what habit you're referencing in the second part of the post.
Practice to get the zap jump down. If you want to keep cstick for the default settings (which I use, too), set jump to a different button. L or R would be a good idea since they're redundant. Or you could claw it (change how you hold the controller for the zap jump), but that's awkward for me.
I'm not sure what habit you're referencing in the second part of the post.
Yeah, I b-stick but I still keep R set to jump for easy zap jumping. Also I don't have to worry about short hopping as much (as I actually find it harder to FH rather than SH in Brawl) with the R button as it isn't as pressure sensitive as X or Y.
FH dair brick walling across the stage isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but sometimes there is nothing to it and it is easy to punish for certain characters. I wouldn't really know how to 'break' the habit, but I'd try staying on ground for a couple matches doing SHPKF as your approach, or trying to approach with SH nairs.
FH dair brick walling across the stage isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but sometimes there is nothing to it and it is easy to punish for certain characters. I wouldn't really know how to 'break' the habit, but I'd try staying on ground for a couple matches doing SHPKF as your approach, or trying to approach with SH nairs.
abhishekh
Smash Journeyman
@Levitas
Thanks for the help so far,
I'll try using R for jumping and then quickly side-B..
The habit I'm doing is like when you do a medium sized forward jump, and quickly press down smash (Or whatever, as long as you're doing a dair), and you sorta sweep across the stage and doing damage or whatever.
People use it to spike with dair, i just like using it to rack up damage .-.
@Irsic
Short hopped Nairs never tend to work out too well...Someone usually uses some aerial which just breaks right through the nair and hits me .-.
Pardon my ignorance, and thanks for the help so far.
Thanks for the help so far,
I'll try using R for jumping and then quickly side-B..
The habit I'm doing is like when you do a medium sized forward jump, and quickly press down smash (Or whatever, as long as you're doing a dair), and you sorta sweep across the stage and doing damage or whatever.
People use it to spike with dair, i just like using it to rack up damage .-.
@Irsic
Short hopped Nairs never tend to work out too well...Someone usually uses some aerial which just breaks right through the nair and hits me .-.
Pardon my ignorance, and thanks for the help so far.
Levitas
the moon
Use nair to get them while they're in their shield, and use dair as an approach and to rack up damage, as you have been. That's not a bad habit.
abhishekh
Smash Journeyman
Wew, thanks again.
Can't just go charging in with it, if you start chaining a few together a distance away, your opponent is sure to either try and get an attack in, or start shielding. If they shield, go nair through their shield. If they attack, make sure to space yourself correctly and get away, then you can either punish with an nair or a FH dair.
abhishekh
Smash Journeyman
@Irsic
Hah, i'll try that.
Hah, i'll try that.
Levitas
the moon
Sort of. You can use AC nair into jabs from in front to mix up their timing and get them to unshield prematurely. The mixup is either doing an AC to jab combo immedately, doing the full jab combo, doing the first two to ftilt, doing the first one to ftilt, ignoring jab and just ftilting....
And the options go from there. Lucas has a fairly good mixup on shield from point-blank range.
And the options go from there. Lucas has a fairly good mixup on shield from point-blank range.
I have a question for you Levitas :D
When doing a Full Hop PKF with Bstick, either of 2 things will happen, and I don't know what causes it:
Either A) I'll PKF the opposite direction I was running, and bounce the way I was running creating great distance. or
B) I will reverse my momentum and bounce the opposite way I was running, and PKF the direction that I was already dashing.
It would help greatly if I knew what caused this.
When doing a Full Hop PKF with Bstick, either of 2 things will happen, and I don't know what causes it:
Either A) I'll PKF the opposite direction I was running, and bounce the way I was running creating great distance. or
B) I will reverse my momentum and bounce the opposite way I was running, and PKF the direction that I was already dashing.
It would help greatly if I knew what caused this.
abhishekh
Smash Journeyman
Oh, I just found out that I could zap-jump using Y for jump on my classic controller.
Thanks for the help, again.
Thanks for the help, again.
Levitas
the moon
The direction you point the analog and bsticks are what cause this. To always get the 2nd effect (the one that's hard to get without bsticking), hit the bstick in the direction you want to go and hold the analog stick in the direction you want the fire to go.
For the retreating pk fire, I just do it without bsticking. It's just a matter of jumping away, pk firing at them, and moving the control stick back to the direction you want to move in again. I don't remember the bstick equivalent of this input off the top of my head.
My bad for missing this entirely >_>
as you are running, jump, let go of the analog, flick the b-stick in the opposite direction you are going, take control of the analog and continue retreating.
This will give you the wavebounced pushback of the PK Fire, use PK Fire in the opposite direction you are going, and continue on your way. The only difference in B-sticking this and not B-sticking it is there is more pushback if you b-stick, allowing a slightly faster retreat.
xoxokev
Smash Lord
Is there a way to do the dtilt lock across a stage easily? Or do you just have to be very precise with your button inputs...
Levitas
the moon
Be precise or tiltstick. I vote be precise.
Usually, I just do it until they're going out of range for the dtilt and get the usmash (most setups for dtilt locking ensure that will kill anyways, so whatever)
Usually, I just do it until they're going out of range for the dtilt and get the usmash (most setups for dtilt locking ensure that will kill anyways, so whatever)
Teh Future
Smash Master
Just do it i practice mode a couple times. Lucas has probably the easier jab lock in the game to actually use, not to mention it is actually possible to set up in a match.
not jab, d-tilt.
plus his jab combo isnt that great (can be DIed out of third hit), jab jab *cancel* d-tilt is probably a better bet, and a decent way to get someone in a d-tilt lock.
Levitas
the moon
c3gill, tripping with dtilt doesn't get anyone in a dtilt lock. You need to hit them hard enough to put them in tumble and get them to land from that.
Levitas
the moon
I'm not saying it's not guaranteed. I'm saying it's not a dtilt lock.
Dtilt lock is forcing a getup animation from a "down" state and interrupting it with another dtilt to knock them down--not tripping them. There's no tripping involved.
Dtilt lock is forcing a getup animation from a "down" state and interrupting it with another dtilt to knock them down--not tripping them. There's no tripping involved.
Levitas
the moon
We've been wrong on this for a while. The most important thing for survival is the duration of the aerial (shorter is better). Nair and Bair are tied in this category. Fair is only another 2 frames longer (not really significant). Uair and Dair are significantly longer.
After using a nair, bair, or fair, IMMEDIATELY fastfall. as soon as the move's over, double jump (don't kill yourself with it)
That's what following up good survival DI with lucas is about.
After using a nair, bair, or fair, IMMEDIATELY fastfall. as soon as the move's over, double jump (don't kill yourself with it)
That's what following up good survival DI with lucas is about.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
Sarcastic answer: Don't.
Real answer: Get a good secondary for handling Marth and Game & Watch and learn to deal with the fact that Lucas is at a disadvantage for most of his matchups. Also, abuse the fact that few people have matchup experience vs. Lucas, with one of two results:
a) They fight Lucas like they would fight Ness
b) They realize Lucas != Ness, but still don't know exactly what Lucas can do (Zap Jump, Magnet Pull, etc.)
The element of surprise is important to Lucas, I think.
Also welcome to Smash Boards. *steals Levitas's job*
Real answer: Get a good secondary for handling Marth and Game & Watch and learn to deal with the fact that Lucas is at a disadvantage for most of his matchups. Also, abuse the fact that few people have matchup experience vs. Lucas, with one of two results:
a) They fight Lucas like they would fight Ness
b) They realize Lucas != Ness, but still don't know exactly what Lucas can do (Zap Jump, Magnet Pull, etc.)
The element of surprise is important to Lucas, I think.
Also welcome to Smash Boards. *steals Levitas's job*