The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[KoozyK]

No you don't lol.
Yoshi doesn't have much in this MU besides the CG.

AGREED, unless ur a complete novice

 

[#HBC | J]

alright stage discussion time.

My thoughts:

Strike: FD, SV *i keep YI because it helps stop the CG cuz of the cumbersome platform*

Counterpick: Brinstar, Norfair, PS1

Ban: Delfino *this is just imo* and FD

Platforms = Good in this MU definetely

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Definitely ban Castle Siege.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I understand you are not discussion marth but suggesting that you counterpick brinstar is pretty stupid. If you keep up to date with our boards its considered one of our best stages. Instead of clogging up this discussion with currently unrelated material please PM or aim me if you wish to discuss this.

 

[bigman40]

Uh....Platforms work well for both characters. I'm not a guy that CPs really gay stages. So, have at it people.

 

[Tokaio]

Definitely ban Castle Siege.

This.
Definitely ban Distant Planet if it's legal. He camps pretty well on that stage, and I believe he has a grab release to grab release off the slope.

Jungle Japes as a counterpick? He really can't grab release combo you here, and if he does, you'll have a better chance of survival because of the high ceiling. Just make sure you grab control of the central platform in case he starts to egg camp. Camping from the sides shouldn't be an issue.

 

[#HBC | J]

I would like cping JJ but it is hardly legal but definetely seems logical for this MU.

I have never thought about CS till now and now that I have I would ban it as well. Walkoffs are scary plus it just isn't a good stage for this MU x_x

 

[T-block]

Yoshi can only chain grab release DK and Wario on Distant Planet's slope IIRC. The rest hit the ground and can spot dodge, including Lucas. Tokaio is just scared of Distant Planet because he gets Water Gun'd into the Bulborb =P

What's Lucas' air release trajectory like? If BF's platforms let you land on them, I'd consider taking Yoshi there.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lucas has the same air release as MK.

 

[Tokaio]

I would like cping JJ but it is hardly legal but definetely seems logical for this MU.

Jungle Japes not legal? o.o

Yoshi can only chain grab release DK and Wario on Distant Planet's slope IIRC. The rest hit the ground and can spot dodge, including Lucas. Tokaio is just scared of Distant Planet because he gets Water Gun'd into the Bulborb =P

Okay, but it's still a decent stage for Yoshi. He outcamps us by a ton because of the layout of the stage. And pfft...I was hardly playing seriously lol

 

[Bomboleriot]

Jungle Japes not legal? o.o

Cause Falco is broken on it

 

[DMG]

Lol MK more broken on it trust me

 

[#HBC | J]

I am gonna start getting to work on frame data this week and if no one else has anything more to show a summary should be written by Friday/Saturday area.

 

[#HBC | J]

Summary is up and I have contacted the Luigi's

Luigi MU time

 

[AxelPurpleMissle]

hmm....
If luigi gets hit by pk fire.. luigi either gets knucked down or out xd, as in if luigi gets hit with it. Depending on how he gets hit. He will slidee down the stage. Luigi can pretty much go through most of lucas attacks if dodged right, but when its close on close combat..thats when it gets all tricky.

ill edit this later

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Pink Fresh beat Boss. Pink Fresh therefore must give us the MU.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

FML.

It's uhh. even.

you just gotta keep him out. [i.e watch for cyclone, pivot grab most aerial approaches, dsmash/fsmash his shield, because it's retardedly safe etc].

I'm actually in a rush.

I'll give more details later.

 

[#HBC | J]

i would say with this MU it is either even or in our favor if anything. 50:50 or 55:45.

Though i'll input when I see what others have to say. Also ill try and friendly Boss at my next tournament if he is there though PF already knows the Lucas/Luigi MU and so does he i would believe *shrug* just gives me more oppurtunities for friendlies.

 

[exdia_16]

i can hav boss at my house in a hour i dropped lucas for luigi, he owns him in the air i hav gotten ***** badly by boss for approaching in the air every time i jump its a stock but on ground lucas has advantage reason y lucas can camp him til hes at the right damage and absorb weegee green sausages and weegee dies from a f-smash at 65 or higher weegee has a nado that can stop pk-fire but the lag on weegee can get him either thrown or another pk-fire so pinkfresh can beat boss if he plays right but i think the MU is 55-45 luigi.

 

[Bomboleriot]

Floaty characters with disjointed Bair = FFFFFUUUUUU-
Definetly watch out Shoryuken, play careful with usmash, grabs and other laggy moves.

 

[#HBC | J]

Basically since no one has posted here in a bit im gonna put some of my input i've noticed.

Luigi is very gimpable by us. Since he is a slow faller he is a victim to PKFr gimping. His Nair cancels our PKT however PKT gets him out of his Missle and Tornado and since the Tornado can only be used once before he gets back onto the stage (iirc) this puts him a bad position if he is far away/below the stage. Plus if you do well at timing with PKF it can be a literal wall to Luigi. However a good Luigi knows how to recover pretty well so you will have to learn how to do the right gimping, but Luigi does not do well offstage in this MU.

Now Lucas has good gtfo moves but Luigi's sheild is weird because if it is hit it sends him sliding....<3 Luigi and his gimmickness lol. (Luigi is so cool <3) anyways lol when Luigi approaches from the air i think we can Pivot grab him since his lack of air mobility but this is just theorycraft (rPSI thought this could happen and after thinking I agree this could happen). If not uhm Utilt/Uair/Nair? (idk ._.)

Luigi has horrible approach so camping him is ideal (though he could PS it all and get in) and if he gets in our defense, our gtfo moves help send him away.

Watch out for his tornado approaches that are quite annoying since they stop PKF.

However Luigi can rack damage up nicely and with his early KO moves can kill us pretty easily. And his Shoryuken is dangerous ._.

55:45 Lucas. The only reason this MU is in our favor is because we win offstage because of gimping.

Spoiler

maybe this post will get more activity about this MU

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's not the floatiness, it's Luigi's lack of aerial mobility.

 

[#HBC | J]

okay thank you rPSI, my bad. I'll fix it.

 

[Alustiel]

Another thing I noticed with weegee is that most of our combos that go into a DTilt(Trip) are the 1s we cant catch him with since he just gets pushed way too far. You can always Magnet Cancel his fireballs but for this MU Id rather just keep Lucas' distance from Weegee. THEM PKT1 Will help you out loads offstage like they said :3

 

[#HBC | J]

Listen to rPSI....always listen

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Dair>Dtilt>USmash

K thx bai.

 

[#HBC | J]

okay yea listen to rPSI on that. lol Dair->Dtilt is better and more deadly. Silly Weegee

Also seriously can some Luigi please tell me some things about Luigi in this MU?

1.) How can he approach a camping Lucas?
2.) Explain a way you guys could get around our gimping? *if possible*
3.) Do you hard cp us on any stage?
4.) Is there anything else you wanna input before moving to stages?

Otherwise my honest opinion is 55:45 we win.

 

[MTGod]

There's a Luigi 'main' in Perth (he knows what he's doing but is very susceptible to mindgames, like a lot of Perth xD) who advances on me when I'm PKF camping by simply dash->powershielding, or (because he's played me so much) he knows Lucas' timing on the PKF using the sound and jumps over it if he senses I'm going for a low SH PKF... If Luigi SH's a low PKF there's not much we can do about it... In close range, I hardly ever use the C-stick for f-smash unless I know I'll hit as if he shields on reaction, just hold A a little longer to hit his shield and push him back and thus it's a safe(r) move... D-smash works nicely for the same reason, and I usually use it if he's approaching close up with a SH, since if I jump to attack the best I can do is clank with him T_T... And, to state the obvious, he can't outcamp us :D

To get around gimping, this guy generally always recovers as high as possible - as soon as he's back on screen after being hit off the stage, it's a jump -- cyclone combo immediately which more often than not puts him above the stage, and above our zap-jump... If he's somehow below or even with the stage (like if he's offstage again after the first recovery before touching the ground for instance) it's usually a pretty easy kill - running offstage PKF does wonders but often even just falling into his green rocket does the same trick as his shoryuken won't get him back to the ledge... Still, most times during a match he's recovering from above the stage due to cyclone...

Regarding counterpicks, I'm not actually too sure about hard CPs... I'd be inclined to think Weegee is on par with Lucas in that, if there's something that'll save him from being gimped like water/lava then it'd be a good CP... However, obviously the same applies for Lucas and thus is a good stage for both

Also, from my experience, jab-shoryuken doesn't work on us (or at least my shield comes up quicker than the shoryuken does - not sure if that's just him being bad or not...) I'd be inclined to say somwhere between 50:50 and 60:40 our favour - our advantage is camping and gimping, but if Luigi knows how to get around PKF then all of a sudden Luigi becomes the slight favourite... Our main aim should be to get Weegee away and camp, though...

 

[#HBC | J]

It's been a while and no one has inputted a thing so onto Stages.

Stage discussion starts now.

 

[~Nasty~]

I don't know why you guys think lucas has the advantage... pretty sure it's even or slight luigi advantage... either that or our best lucas doesn't know the luigi MU... *looks at PF*

 

[rPSIvysaur]

PF has beaten Boss several times. He's only lost to him once...

 

[~Nasty~]

^ i was only teasing him...

but since you brought that up... i was only aware that PF beat Boss's mario.. never his luigi. But idk, i don't really follow his tourney results.

 

[Bomboleriot]

Can we safely base on just "one" match-up, only defined by this two players? Yes, they are among the best in their category. Yet, we couldn't just assume it's ok "because PF rocks" (which is obv true btw)
Personally, I think Luigi has a slight advantage. He has various way to flee PKF, and his aerials are hard to punish. Plus, he has good killing moves.
Gimping Luigi is easy? Wait, doesnt he have at least 3 ways to recover?

There's clearly something overlooked imo, even if i don't know this MU very well

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

looooool. I was so disheartened after I missed the dair -> dtilt -> usmash.

blahhh. djkashjkas.

bad set.

it's still in our favor. if you watch up until that part, you'll see how hard of a time he has getting in.

 

[Chuee]

Not to mention, PF, you got hit by a up-b at like 60% lmao.

 

[~Nasty~]

looooool. I was so disheartened after I missed the dair -> dtilt -> usmash.

blahhh. djkashjkas.

bad set.

it's still in our favor. if you watch up until that part, you'll see how hard of a time he has getting in.

I'd say it's even based off what i saw. You did get hit by upB pretty early :-/

I spoke to boss at MLG Columbus and he said he has a difficult time getting in on you bc you're spacing is really good and that Lucas' Ftilt is broken. lol.

@ Bomborleriot... And about the MU being based off one match... I'm just saying that MU ratios are based off the best people w/ their respective character... Boss as Luigi, and Pink Fresh as Lucas.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I can't even watch the second match and take it seriously lol.

blehh. I 'll try to play it better next time.

and

Hmm. It's pretty even, but if I were to givr it to anyone, then it'd be lucas, just because he can outspace him the entire match ._.

My edge guarding was lakcluster as well :/

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

This matchup is pretty even. U guys can try to out-camp Luigi but Luigi can just powershield y'all PK fire, but I know Lucas can out-space Luigi cuz Lucas's range is better than Luigi's. Luigi got a very good recovery, Lucas would have a hard time gimping Luigi, Luigi seems little bit better @ gimping. Lucas can take advantage of Luigi's traction by using f-smash, Luigi got the better aerial game and Luigi is even w/ Lucas in ground game b/c Luigi is good @ close combat w/ good priority.

 

[O'chunks]

This matchup is pretty even. U guys can try to out-camp Luigi but Luigi can just powershield y'all PK fire, but I know Lucas can out-space Luigi cuz Lucas's range is better than Luigi's. Luigi got a very good recovery, Lucas would have a hard time gimping Luigi, Luigi seems little bit better @ gimping. Lucas can take advantage of Luigi's traction by using f-smash, Luigi got the better aerial game and Luigi is even w/ Lucas in ground game b/c Luigi is good @ close combat w/ good priority.

The matchup is close to even but here are some points why it's slightly in our favor.

Luigi has a good recovery but if he wants to not get gimped, he has to recover high kind of like Snake to not let it happen as much. We can PK Thunder (or Fire) your Green Missile and it'll either cancel your movement (even if misfired) or hit you into the blast zone depending on percentages and stage. If you use your rising tornado wrong, we can magnet gimp Luigi and it's kinda like a semi-spike and you won't be able to recover (unless you get a misfire). Lucas can also tailwhip your tornado if your not careful. For the ground game, Lucas is better because of our range and if you powershield, at times you'll still slide and possibly miss a chance to attack. In the air there is no question that Luigi is better there. For close combat, we can ftilt the majority of your ground moves and use it as a spacing tool to prevent you from approching.

Overall we have the slight advantage because we can gimp Luigi better for early KOs and that he has a hard time approching because he has a few or no approching opitions against us.

 

[#HBC | J]

I was about to go off on seeing that almost close to a month of no posting in here until Lil Gerald and Chunks saved it.

Spoiler

I could never hate any lucas board <3

Anyways Chunks summed it up pretty nicely actually. ;o

Lucas>Luigi in gimping senses for this MU.

Where is that PF summary? o-o" Still imho 55-45 Lucas.