I have no PT exp and probably never will, or at least for a long time, so I'll trust what you guys say.
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I'll agree to that as long as everyone who gives input agrees to do it in order of tier list, ratios as Ike:Opponent, and with minimal comments on each match-up. Just cause it's way easier for me to organize all the data if everyone gives input in the same way. If you want to comment on any of your ratios, please do so in some paragraphs below the listing of your ratios, not beside/between the list.Might I suggest we make a habit of updating this topic with our opinions on the first of every season? So pretty much 6/1, 9/1, 12/1 and 3/1.
It won't happen enough to annoy people or for the metagame to not improve but at the same time it's not so slow that nobody will care.
Opinions?
Re-posting for format/clarity.
58-42
60-40
60-40
50-50
60-40 IkeYah so in that case, might as well just give all new input including the individual Pokemon match-ups. No sense updating the old one when we're going to completely revamp it in a few days.
Also, note to everyone. While you're giving ratios in order of tier list, which I would really appreciate if you all did, put PTs individual Pokemon immediately following PT himself in this order:
I don't care if you want it in a different order entirely when I do the final list, that's fine, but for the sake of making data collection much easier, please do it in that order.
Changes in bold. If we're going to do the comments for each MU part, it will need to be later.3-7
4-6
45-55
3-7 -> 35-65 (honestly, I'm right inbetween the two for actual number, but I rounded down for the sake of showing the difference between Falco and MK)
55-45
35-65
45-55
35-65
50-50
35-65
40-60
45-55
45-55
40-60
35-65 -> 40-60
45-55
40-60 -> 45-55
40-60
50-50
45-55
60-40
40-60
:shiek: 40-60
60-40
- 65-35
- 45-55
- 55-45
50-50
50-50
60-40
55-45
Ditto Match
55-45
50-50
60-40
40-60
60-40
60-40
55-45
65-35
Changes in bold. A few got better, Toon Link got worse.30-70 -> 35:65
40:60 -> 45:55
45:55
40:60
55:45
40:60
45:55
40:60
50:50
35:65
40:60
55:45
45:55
45:55 -> 40:60
40:60
50:50
40:60-> 45:55
55:45
55:45
45:55
60:40
45:55
:shiek: 45: 55
55:45 -> 60:40
65-35
60-40
50-50
50:50
55:45
60:40
55:45
Ditto Match
55:45
55:45
60:40
45:55
60:40
60:40
60:40
65:35
TL is stupid.you were overrating Ike vs TL before. :S More like you finally saw the light.. TL is ridiculous @_@
Change Reasonings:Sounds like a good idea Niddo, I'll give my input.
25-75 -> 30-70
40-60
35-65
40-60
40-60
40-60
45-55
40-60
40-60 -> 45-55
35-65 -> 40-60
45-55
45-55
45-55
45-55
35-65
45-55
40-60
50-50
45-55
45-55
60-40
45-55
:shiek: 40-60
50-50 -> 60-40
60-40
60-40
50-50
45-55
55-45
60-40
55-45
+ =
55-45
50-50
65-35
45-55
45-55
60-40
65-35
70-30
0-100 -> 15-85
10Matchups.30-70
40-60
45-55
35-65 -> 40-60 - Not as hard I as thought when it comes to edgeguarding.
45-55 I don't like them. :[
40-60
40-60
35-65
45-55
35-65
45-55
45-55 -> 50-50 - I can beat Penta now. *shrugs* lol
45-55
35-65 -> 40-60 - Recently played Jash again, just had to wait for him to land. Still gay though.
40-60
45-55
55-45 ROB sucks.
50-50
50-50
40-60
55-45
40-60
:shiek: 45-55
55-45 -> 60-40
55-45 -> 60-40 - Eruption discussion. (No rhyme intended)
60-40
50-50
45-55
55-45
55-45
55-45
- Port priority.
55-45
45-55 -> 50-50 - This ***** shouldn't be gimping me.
55-45
40-60
55-45
60-40
60-40
60-40
Yeah honestly my bro Joeysmash is a Olimar main and its about 50 50 just as long as im close to him, if your not, you'll get destroyedChange Reasonings:
MK - I've been thinking a lot about this match-up and about all the different MKs I've faced both offline and online and the more I think about it, the less of a threat MK seems to be. Of course eventually you hit a wall and when it comes down to it, it's still a terrible MU for Ike... just not quite as terrible as I used to think.
Pikachu - I had a biased opinion here because of a local Pikachu main I could not beat for the life of me. I finally took some time to learn the keys to the match-up and beat him in tourney last weekend, to the point where he had to switch to Olimar, so I've realized it's not Ike's MU with Pikachu, it was my lack of knowledge on said MU.
Olimar - I've never had a serious problem with an Olimar main. I've found that unless they play 100% gay and never let up on tossing Pikmin and pivot grabbing, it's not too bad of a MU. If you can read their attempts to grab you and punish everything with Jabs and only Jabs (because nothing else is safe), you can rack damage pretty quickly and once they're off-stage, it becomes a game of simply when to go for the edge-hog.
PT - I don't know how I came to 50-50 before. I've always known first hand that Squirtle and Ivysaur are relatively easy for Ike and Charizard isn't too bad either, so why I had it as even overall I have no idea.
Nidoking - I felt that this match-up is in fact winnable for Ike if he plays it very carefully. If Nidoking chooses to punish Ike with Horn Drill on every whiffed Fair then you really stand no chance, but on the off chance that he'll hurt himself after using Thrash, you could get an early KO.
Yea I didn't change much, just lowing some advantages cause well, dash shield is too good :S
25-75 / 25-75 --> 30-70 / 29-71
40-60 / 40-60
40-60 / 42-58
40-60 / 40 - 60
55-45 / 57-43
35-65 / 34-56
45-55 / 45-55
40-60 / 40-60
50-50 / 50:50
35-65 / 33-67 --> 40-60 / 40-60
40-60 / 39-61
45-55 / 44-56
45-55 / 45-55
40-60 / 39-61
40-60 / 41-59
45-55 / 46-54
45-55 / 45-55 --> 50-50
45-55 / 47-53 --> 50 - 50
50-50 / 50-50
45-55 / 44-56
60-40 / 59-41
40-60 / 40-60
:shiek: 40-60 / 40-60
60-40 / 58-42
60-40 / 57-43
60-40 / 60-40
55-45 / 54-46
50-50 / 50-50
50-50 / 50-50
60-40 / 61-39
50-50 / 50-50
My friends - Your Friends
60-40 / 58-42
50-50 / 50-50
60-40 / 60-40 --> 55-45 / 57-43
45-60 / 44-56
60-40 / 60-40 --> 55-45 / 55-45
60-40 / 62-38
55-45 / 57-43
65-35 / 66-34
Any changes made are bold and white.Mr. Doom's turn.
40-60
45-55
45-55
45-55
50-50
40-60
50-50
45-55
50-50
45-55
55-45
50-50
50-50
50-50
50-50
50-50
50-50
50-50
50-50
45-55
60-40
45-55
:shiek: 45-55
50-50
45-55
60-40
50-50
45-55
60-40
60-40
60-40
0-100
55-45
50-50
60-40
45-55
50-50
60-40
60-40
60-40
There, I'm done. Bye.
lol wut, it depends on the olimar, if hes campy and defensive (like 99% of the olimar community) then i'd say its about 80-20, if not then its still 65-35. that matchup is horrible because olimar can punish your landing without even getting into an area thats potentially dangerous.I'm going radical, Ike vs Olimar is 40:60 now
yeah, but this is the wrong topic right? i reckon we should make a tech cahse thread or sumthin'.San is doing something that camping is not the only thing Olimar has to do to win.
EDIT: oops offtopic
I think we need to explore bthrow/fthrow > tech chase.. Like into nair to eat air dodges.
Using bthrow to throw offstage.. Ike can walk off fair, dair, and fsmash onstage. They cover most options or so I would say. airdodge back to stage avoids walk off dair and fair but fsmash eats that like nothing.
I can sort of agree on this. Thankfully, I have my bro, Joeysmash, that mains Olimar so I can say maybe that its 40-60, after playing his Olimar a while. But that's my opinionI'm going radical, Ike vs Olimar is 40:60 now
Not to derail the thread but this is wrong to the point where I feel I need to say something. The characters on whom the Bthrow to DA combo works on are almost entirely fastfallers or large characters. Their fall speed and / or size ensures that after the Bthrow they touch the ground and incur 4 frames of landing lag because of that. If they are slowfaller such as Lucario then they can just mash jump and will escape the combo.weve got a guaranteed b-throw t dash attack on all characters with a slower falling speed with lucario,any faster and they can tech/shield/etc before our hitbox comes out