The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#1
Point of This Topic

Some of you may have noticed several things about the Ike boards. The first part being that our current, completed Match Up Discussion Topic is rather...old. Outdated. Based on outdated information. Second thing you may have noticed: a lack of a new match-up discussion topic. It's not to say we haven't tried, it just fell apart. While that is perfectly fine for us, who have been around quite a long time and know what Ike's match-ups are like currently, it does nothing to help new guys coming in, and wanting to learn about Ike. Specifically, wanting to learn how Ike's match-ups are like.

The purpose of this topic is for the various veterans of this board to spit out what they believe the match-up ratios are, without going to various boards to discuss them, and to come up with an average. This first post will then contain all of those averages, both true averages (such as 51-49 and 63-37, ect.), and averages to the nearest commonly used number (Such as 50-50, 65-35, ect.). This way, anyone at a glance can know what to expect difficulty wise from various match-ups, and the challenges of using Ike as a whole in a tournament.

What is NOT the Point of This Topic

In depth explanations. While I'm sure the members of the Ike board will be glad to those who want help with match-ups in the Ashunera’s Library topic, this topic isn't really meant for everyone to come in and say their opinion. This is really for those who have used Ike in several tournaments and have match-up experience, and for those who are generally considered to have a good idea about how Ike works. I'm a loophole, due to the fact I made the topic. Sue me if you don't like it. All joking aside though, we don't want people from other character boards coming in, and telling us how we're wrong. That is NOT what this topic is about. This is for those who use Ike, and are respected on this board as being a good Ike main/knowledgeable about Ike and those people alone. If you don't like it: sorry. But this topic has a set purpose, and I want to make sure it's done correctly.

Flamewars. Believe it or not: the point here isn't to rip out each other's throats, as much fun as that is. People's opinions will differ. Feel free to ask other people post ratios "Hey, why do you think it's that?" but don't start flaming each other, or going in depth and having discussions spanning pages over a match-up ratio. I want this to be quickly, and simply done, so we can get this out of the way. Then we can go back to ripping each other apart, okay? :bee:

Ratio Chart
Okay so here are the updated averages. I'll just do a quick color legend:

Cyan: True Average Ratio
Yellow: Rounded Average Ratio
Red: Rounded average has gone down with new data
Green: Rounded average has gone up with new data

I didn't bother noting each time the true average went up or down, because there were a lot of minor changes, but I took note of the few times when there was a significant difference in input that caused the rounded average to change. It only ever changed by 5 in the given direction though (60-40 to 55-45 for example).

:metaknight: 30-70 (30-70)
:snake: 42-58 (40-60)
:diddy: 44-56 (45-55) Change +
:falco: 39-61 (40-60) Change +
:popo: 49-51 (50-50)
:marth: 38-62 (40-60) Change +
:wario: 46-54 (45-55)
:dedede: 37-63 (35-65)
:pikachu2: 47-53 (45-55)
:olimar: 37-63 (35-65)
:lucario: 43-57 (45-55)
:gw: 49-51 (50-50) Change +
:pit: 45-55 (45-55)
:toonlink: 44-56 (45-55) Change +
:zerosuitsamus: 41-59 (40-60)
:kirby2: 47-53 (45-55)
:rob: 48-52 (50-50) Change +
:dk2: 50-50 (50-50)
:peach: 49-51 (50-50)
:fox: 44-56 (45-55)
:luigi2: 57-43 (55-45) Change -
:wolf: 44-56 (45-55)
:sheik: 45-55 (45-55)
:pt: 59-41 (60-40) Change +
:squirtle: 61-39 (60-40)
:ivysaur: 61-39 (60-40)
:charizard: 52-48 (50-50)
:sonic: 48-52 (50-50)
:ness2: 53-47 (55-45)
:bowser2: 59-41 (60-40)
:lucas: 55-45 (55-45)
:ike: + :ike: will always = :ike::ike:
:yoshi2: 55-45 (55-45)
:mario2: 54-46 (55-45) Change +
:falcon: 58-42 (60-40)
:samus2: 42-58 (40-60) Change -
:jigglypuff: 55-45 (55-45)
:zelda: 60-40 (60-40)
:link2: 60-40 (60-40)
:ganondorf: 65-35 (65-35)

Average Ratio Against All Characters:
48.9-51.1 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against High Tier Characters:
41.7-58.3 (40-60)

Average Ratio Against Mid Tier Characters:
49.5-50.5 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against Low Tier Characters:
55.4-44.6 (55-45)

A lot of big changes to our average MU ratios in this one, mostly for the better. As a result, the true averages for our ratios against all characters, high tier characters and mid tier characters increased a bit, but not enough to cause the rounded averages to change.

As for MUs that are pretty borderline... Snake is very close to tipping towards 45-55. DDD and Olimar are both close to being 40-60 instead of 35-65. Also, Pikachu and Kirby are both very close to being 50-50.


:034:



List of Contributers

Wanna know who's ratios were used so you know who to flame thank? Here you go:

Niddo. Is also the creator of the topic.
San
Bored
Mr.Doom
Ussi
Nysyarc. Is also the dude who actually figured out the ratios. I just copy and pasted them like the lazy guy I am. :D
YagamiLight
RedX
Slaps
Brettster
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#2
Alright, I'll start off with my own, personal list in this post now. Simply follow suit, and once we get enough I'll take it from there.

:metaknight: 3-7
:snake: 4-6
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 3-7
:popo: 55-45
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 50-50
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 40-60
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 40-60
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 60-40
:sonic: 50-50
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: Ditto Match
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 60-40
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 55-45
:ganondorf: 65-35
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#3
These are just placeholders in my mind for discussion later. Comparing to other people's, I tend to overrate matchups against some floaty/light characters.

+ = could possibly be better (could be convinced to move that character up)
- = could possibly be worse (could be convinced to move that character down)
~ = +/-
? = general area, not really sure
I could be convinced because I mostly compare MUs between different characters, if MUs don't seem as hard/easy as a certain character in a different group.

A lot of these are just placeholders of what I'm thinking at the moment. Don't mind if some are off =/
30/70: If played correctly can be an intensely difficult matchup. Our options get walled off one by one.
:metaknight:

35/65: need to be noticeably a good margin better if both are playing MU correctly

:dedede:
+:falco:
+:olimar:
+:marth:

40/60: Need to be noticeably playing better than opponent

-:zerosuitsamus:
-:lucario:
(could be -):snake:
:toonlink:

+:rob:

45/55: Minor disadvantages that could be easily overcome, but maintain a certain presence in play

-:fox:
-:diddy:
:pit:
:shiek:
?:wolf:
+:samus2:
+:wario:

50/50:

~:pikachu2:
:popo:
:ike: Ditto Match
:sonic:
?:peach:
+:kirby2:

55/45:

:gw:
:dk2:
~:luigi2:
~:pt:
+:ness2:
?:bowser2:
+:mario2:

60/40:

-:jigglypuff:
:lucas:
:yoshi2:
:falcon:
:zelda:
:link2:

65/35:
?:ganondorf:
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
#4
I'm gonna post my ratios based simply on tournament experience and basically pitting an equal level of said character vs Ike.

:metaknight: 0-100
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 30-70
:popo: 40-60
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 40-60
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65
:kirby2: 50-50
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 45-55
:peach: 45-55
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 40-60
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: Ditto Match
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 45-55
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 65-35
:ganondorf: 65-35[/QUOTE]
 

Mr. Doom

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
5,681
Location
Electrodrome
NNID
MrDoom8000
#5
Mr. Doom's turn.

:metaknight: 40-60 only IF you play your cards right. You still have to play very conservatively against this ball of steel.

:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 40-60
:popo: 50-50
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 40-60
:pikachu2: 50-50
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 45-55
:gw: 50-50
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 45-55
:zerosuitsamus: 50-50
:kirby2: 50-50
:rob: 45-55
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 45-55
:pt: 50-50
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: 0-100 Mr. Doom's favor
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 50-50
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-30
:ganondorf: 65-35

There, I'm done. Bye.
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
17,154
Location
New Jersey (South T_T)
3DS FC
4613-6716-2183
#6
EDIT 2: Left is for Niddo right is for what i really think

:metaknight: 25-75 / 25-75
:snake: 40-60 / 40-60
:diddy: 40-60 / 42-58
:falco: 40-60 / 38-62
:popo: 55-45 / 57-43
:marth: 35-65 / 34-56
:wario: 45-55 / 45-55
:dedede: 40-60 / 38-62
:pikachu2: 50-50 / 50:50
:olimar: 35-65 / 33-67
:lucario: 40-60 / 39-61
:gw: 45-55 / 44-56
:pit: 45-55 / 45-55
:toonlink: 40-60 / 40-60
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60 / 41-59
:kirby2: 45-55 / 46-54
:rob: 45-55 / 45-55
:dk2: 45-55 / 43-57
:peach: 50-50 / 50-50
:fox: 45-55 / 44-56
:luigi2: 60-40 / 59-41
:wolf: 40-60 / 40-60
:shiek: 40-60 / 40-60
:pt: 60-40 / 58-42
:sonic: 50-50 / 50-50
:ness2: 50-50 / 51-49
:bowser2: 60-40 / 61-39
:lucas: 50-50 / 50-50
:ike: My friends - Your Friends
:yoshi2: 60-40 / 59-41
:mario2: 50-50 / 50-50
:falcon: 60-40 / 60-40
:samus2: 45-60 / 44-56
:jigglypuff: 60-40 / 60-40
:zelda: 60-40 / 62-38
:link2: 55-45 / 57-43
:ganondorf: 65-35 / 66-34


there is my opinion

EDIT: Rounded to nearest 5, personally some MUs are a little harder/easier so i wanted to make that difference, but no matter.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#7
Hey Ussi, if you don't mind: for when I do the numbers rounded to the nearest #5-#5, I'm going to round your ratios to the closest #5-#5. It keeps things simpler on my end. >_>
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
NNID
Nysyarc
#10
Sounds like a good idea Niddo, I'll give my input.

:metaknight: 25-75
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 35-65
:falco: 40-60
:popo: 40-60
:marth: 40-60
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 40-60
:pikachu2: 40-60
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 45-55
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 45-55
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 45-55
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 50-50
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 55-45
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: + :ike: = :ike::ike:
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 65-35
:samus2: 45-55
:jigglypuff: 45-55
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 65-35
:ganondorf: 70-30

:034: 0-100
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
#11
Yay, no outsiders. My opinions are _probably_ somewhat radical in nature but I'm pretty sure that after two years here it's somewhat obvious that my thoughts on Ike are somewhat "out-there", if you will. For some of them, I may have put a slight sentence (or fragment) next to it to either highlight something special or to just give a side note.


:metaknight: 30-70 | Ike's worst match-up by a ridiculous amount.
:snake: 40:60 | Closer to this than 45:55, though I'm still not sure.
:diddy: 45:55 | lrn2 banana
:falco: 40:60 | lrn2 powershield
:popo: 55:45
:marth: 40:60 | Closer to 40:60 than 35:65, though somewhere in the middle.
:wario: 45:55
:dedede: 40:60 | lrn2 space
:pikachu2: 50:50
:olimar: 35:65 | atm Ike's second hardest match, imo
:lucario: 40:60
:gw: 55:45
:pit: 45:55
:toonlink: 45:55
:zerosuitsamus: Very little ZSS exp, so I would feel bad if I made a ratio call.
:kirby2: 50:50
:rob: 40:60
:dk2: 55:45 | This may seem radical.
:peach: 55:45 | As may this.
:fox: 45:55
:luigi2: 60:40 | The first REAL advantage.
:wolf: 45:55
:shiek: 45: 55
:pt: 55:45 | Want to post 60:40, but eh.
:sonic: 50:50
:ness2: 55:45
:bowser2: 60:40 | Even without the frame precise CG, this is really just DK but easier.
:lucas: 55:45 | Lucas suxxxx
:ike: Ditto Match µ:♣ | Haven't you learned, Ike always wins.
:yoshi2: 55:45
:mario2: 55:45
:falcon: 60:40
:samus2: 45:55
:jigglypuff: 60:40
:zelda: 60:40
:link2: 60:40
:ganondorf: 65:35 | On the fence about this one.

After posting these ratios they aren't nearly as radical as I thought they would be. I'm sure if you average all these out the final result will be something like 49:51 for all the total match-ups, which is pretty much what a "decent" character should be at, IMO.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
NNID
Nysyarc
#12
I'm a statistic freak so I decided to give us an average consensus on the input so far.

:metaknight: 26-74 (25-75)
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 42-58 (40-60)
:falco: 36-64 (35-65)
:popo: 49-51 (50-50)
:marth: 36-64 (35-65)
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 37-63 (35-65)
:pikachu2: 48-52(50-50)
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 41-59 (40-60)
:gw: 49-51 (50-50)
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 42-58 (40-60)
:zerosuitsamus: 39-61 (40-60)
:kirby2: 48-52 (50-50)
:rob: 41-59 (40-60)
:dk2: 48-52 (50-50)
:peach: 49-51 (50-50)
:fox: 44-56 (45-55)
:luigi2: 59-41 (60-40)
:wolf: 44-56 (45-55)
:shiek: 42-58 (40-60)
:pt: 53-47 (55-45)
:sonic: 48-52 (50-50)
:ness2: 52-48 (50-50)
:bowser2: 59-41 (60-40)
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: + :ike: still = :ike::ike:
:yoshi2: 56-44 (55-45)
:mario2: 51-49 (50-50)
:falcon: 61-39 (60-40)
:samus2: 42-58 (40-60)
:jigglypuff: 54-46 (55-45)
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-40
:ganondorf: 66-34 (65-35)

Also, a few interesting facts (I find them interesting anyways); I decided to add a decimal point for these to show further accuracy:

Average Ratio Against All Characters:
47.4-52.6 (45-55)

Average Ratio Against High Tier Characters:
40.3-59.7 (40-60)

Average Ratio Against Mid Tier Characters:
47.6-52.4 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against Low Tier Characters:
55.6-44.4 (55-45)

There's obviously a direct relationship to Ike's match-ups (on average) getting easier and the tier list getting lower. The rounded up 50-50 against mid-tiers is pretty close, if a few more people give input for this with a couple more slightly worse match-ups in mid-tiers, that'll easily fall to a 45-55 disadvantage.


:034:
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#13
I'm really surprised how the average MU numbers turned out (better than I thought). The MK number makes me lol though. I'm just happy 90% of MKs don't really play the matchup correctly.


I feel DK is pretty much my biggest disparity with others in the topic. If you don't mind, if I could have 2-4 sentences about your reason for DK (dis)advantage?

I put DK 55-45, because we can actually pressure DK at ranges DK usually likes, and his aerials and ground attacks aren't as threatening (but still threatening lol) as once thought because of disjoint walls like nair and sometimes bair. DK can't get close very well because of our jabs and his difficulty in getting out.

We each have shenanigans against the other offstage, but I think DK is just limited to the cargo dthrow (which is VERY effective, but easy to avoid) really, while Ike has aether, bair, and other disjoint attacks and spikes. 1 grab for either character is probably an offstage (if DK is at bthrow--> dash attack %).

Each can throw stuff at the other but I think Ike throws a little harder is basically it for me lol. (I didn't mention getting % but I think both are pretty decent at getting % on each other =/ )
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Bronx, NY
#15
I'll give this a shot =p

:metaknight: 35-65 (Haven't fought MKs that play the matchup correctly)
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 40-60 (That infinite comes to mind ever since 9B actually pulled it off in tourney)
:falco: 35-65
:popo: 45-55
:marth: 40-60
:wario: 40-60
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 45-55
:gw: 40-60
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 35-65 (Ever since I played Jash, this matchup seems impossible -.-)
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60
:kirby2: 50-50
:rob: 55-45 (ROB's terrible airdodge+easy to gimp recovery using Aether makes my opinion)
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 55-45
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 45-55
:pt: 45-55
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 55-45
:bowser2: 55-45
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: 100-0 (Whoever ends up offstage the most loses)
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 45-55
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 55-45
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-40
:ganondorf: 65-35 (Maybe 60:40 but that's because I'm a total idiot when fighting Ganondorf)
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#16
San, is there anyway for DK to get out of a timed aether spike? Mad SDI?
Not if the DK is right above you. I usually push my aether forward which makes it easier for DK to get out, but even if DK gets out, he's susceptible to a bair right afterward from what I've experienced.

Timing aether to spike is actually not as easy as it sounds. You want to go far enough to spike DK, close enough so you don't grab the ledge, and time it well enough before DK autosnaps. That's why I just try aether-->bair until it spikes on DK lol (easier said than done).
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
#17
I actually put DK as 55:45 though I didn't notice that you had a similar number, san! And here I thought I was being a cool radical.

Anyway for justification I feel as if Ike was given the "right" tools to be able to combat DK in the areas he likes up to the point where Ike slowly edges out DK in those areas. Ike (slightly) outranges DK in his favorite mid range area of play with aerial walls and covers long range with stuff like Fair. He has the ultimate edge over DK (a poor CQC character) with the amazing jab. If DK is up close he is probably getting jabbed before he can do anything, really. Doesn't help that his grab and spotdodge are both mediocre framewise. Bthrow to DA works very early on him, though both of you sort of get screwed by the other when you're offstage. Overall, I find that it's the fact that Ike genuinely competes in the same strength categories as DK does and wins out in a fair bit of DK's best assets (strength and range, plus Ike cuts DK's longevity with Aether + his own strength) that pushes this to be very slightly in Ike's favor at a theory level. At the practical level you are just going to be smashed a lot and it will hurt, haha (at first, anyway, DK takes getting used to).

I wonder if that made any sense...
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#18
Yes, everything was explained perfectly fine to me =)

I was just wondering, because the last MU discussion of DK ended with 50/50 or 45/55 DK favor IIRC, and my opinon from there got better while others not so much.
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
17,154
Location
New Jersey (South T_T)
3DS FC
4613-6716-2183
#19
Last went as low as 40/60 cause we just kept hitting Dk with the front side of usmash and get punished with fsmash


front side of usmash is not meant to be used to hit, always aim for backside usmash!!

Other than that, aether + bair edge guard well.

DK can UP B out of aether
 

Slaps

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
1,187
Location
Wifi training room waiting...
NNID
iSlaps
#20
I feel like my list is inferior XD all your lists are colorful...

:metaknight: 30-70
:snake: 45-55
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 40-60
:popo: 55-45
:marth: 35-65 (ever since whobo2 when i got aggro ***** by RoyR)
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 40-60
:toonlink: 40-60
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60
:kirby2: 40-60
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 55-45
:peach: 40-60
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 55-45
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 50-50
:pt: 45-55
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: Ditto Match XD 100-100
:yoshi2: 50-50
:mario2: 55-45
:falcon: 55-45
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 55-45
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-40
:ganondorf: 65-35
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
#21
Not if the DK is right above you. I usually push my aether forward which makes it easier for DK to get out, but even if DK gets out, he's susceptible to a bair right afterward from what I've experienced.

Timing aether to spike is actually not as easy as it sounds. You want to go far enough to spike DK, close enough so you don't grab the ledge, and time it well enough before DK autosnaps. That's why I just try aether-->bair until it spikes on DK lol (easier said than done).
Hm. From the DK mains I've played and experience, when I get them off stage and they are trying to recover, I quick grab the edge and dip low enough to do a reverse aether so Ike grabs the edge the moment the spike part of Aether connects against DK. Instant kill.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#22
Thanks for that Nys!

Hey Slaps, I think you have that Falco ratio backwards....unless you think he's tied for our easiest MU. lol

As for the DK mentioning: my two cents is that he is slightly faster then us at mid range, and has the mobility to keep a very large portion of the game at range. Granted, I've only played that MU a few times in friendlies...
 

DTK.L

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
2,018
Location
Las vegas
3DS FC
2036-9101-4904
#25
Nair,spacing jab cancel,ftilt

not a answer for the dk question just something i like doing.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
NNID
Nysyarc
#27
This thread has gone so off-topic so fast. Let's wait for some more Ike mains to give their input on the match-ups before we get into a 10 page discussion of how easy it is to gimp DK.

:034:
 

Narigo1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
317
3DS FC
4098-2763-4068
#28
:metaknight: 25:75 hardest
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 40-60
:falco: 35-65
:popo: 45:55
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45:55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 50-50
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 45-55
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 55-45
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 60-40
:sonic: 50-50
:ness2: 55-45
:bowser2: don't have too much experience here
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: Ditto Match
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50:50 maybe sligthty in ike's favor
:falcon: 60:40
:samus2: 40:60
:jigglypuff: 55:45
:zelda: 55:45
:link2: 60:40
:ganondorf: 60-40
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
3,428
Location
Denton, Texas (Dallas)
#29

:metaknight: 15-85
:snake: 43-57
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 35-65
:popo: 47-53
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 45-55
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 50-50
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 45-55
:pt: 55-45
:sonic: 50-50
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike:--------------
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 45-55
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 65-35
:ganondorf: 65-35
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#30
My post wasn't as simple as just gimping DK.. Well, I think it'll be hard to get much actual discussion in such a topic, though.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#31
Er...has anyone seen Narigo post here before? I don't recognize him...

I mean, the numbers are perfectly reasonable, but this was really for those who have been around a while...
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,636
Location
Rochester, NY
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
NNID
Sansoldier
#32
Lurkers like to post in all topics not the general discussion XD

I think more opinions are definitely valued, but more weight should be given to people who've been involved with the Ike boards for a while (non-lurk).
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#33
Lurkers like to post in all topics not the general discussion XD

I think more opinions are definitely valued, but more weight should be given to people who've been involved with the Ike boards for a while (non-lurk).
....

How the heck am I going to make an equation for all of that and still get the correct ratio averages at the end? O_o
 

Conviction

Human Nature
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
13,390
Location
Kennesaw, Georgia
3DS FC
1907-8951-4471
#36
WORTWORT!

*duck and rolls away*


I think we have most of the regs now. Just need to start putting the info together...might take a while. Ratios aren't my strong suit, I tend to mess up in stupid ways.
omg.

NIDDO YOU ARE FAILING WITH YOUR NOOBISH DUCK AND ROLLING AWAY......

DO A BARREL ROLL!
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
NNID
Nysyarc
#37
My post wasn't as simple as just gimping DK.
True, but that's what the conversation degraded to pretty quickly :ohwell:

I think we have most of the regs now. Just need to start putting the info together...might take a while. Ratios aren't my strong suit, I tend to mess up in stupid ways.
I could do it a lot easier at this point, I still have the spreadsheet saved so I can just add in the data from RedX, Slaps and Brett (and Narigo...?). I'll post it here and you can copy it to the OP.

:034:
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,252
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#38
:o

I gets to steal all of the credit for the hard work! WHAHAHAHA!!! Ah, ya, that would be a help. >_< Thanks dood.

NIDDO YOU ARE FAILING WITH YOUR NOOBISH DUCK AND ROLLING AWAY......

DO A BARREL ROLL!
...

But the picture in my sig...it's not a Barrel Roll...it's head over heels...
 
Top Bottom