The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

[Heartstring]

Extremely so.

then i feel bad XD
also edited my post to add pkmn trainer and hazard another guess at some of the pictures
edit: i cant figure out how to do pkmn trainers picture, can a noob get a hand (on top of the one sharkie already gave me)

 

[Nysyarc]

pkmn trainer and hazard

Did you mean Charizard? Lol, how do you miss three letters? Unless you meant hazard but then it doesn't make sense.

And for Pokemon Trainer it's:

: pt :

But without the spaces obviously. You can always just click the [More] link below the default smilies to the right of the reply box and it'll give you a list of all the smilies and their shortcuts.

 

[Heartstring]

Did you mean Charizard? Lol, how do you miss three letters? Unless you meant hazard but then it doesn't make sense.

And for Pokemon Trainer it's:

: pt :

But without the spaces obviously. You can always just click the [More] link below the default smilies to the right of the reply box and it'll give you a list of all the smilies and their shortcuts.

actually hazard was intentional i was going to 'hazard a guess' at getting pokemon trainer sprite correct...havent you heard that phrase before?
also thanks, ill go edit that

 

[Nysyarc]

Honestly I haven't heard that phrase before, not a Canadian-english phrase I guess. That's a relief though, I thought your typing quality was steadily getting worse if it was meant to be Charizard, lol.

 

[Heartstring]

Honestly I haven't heard that phrase before, not a Canadian-english phrase I guess. That's a relief though, I thought your typing quality was steadily getting worse if it was meant to be Charizard, lol.

it gets worse when i type faster, also my keyboard is disgraceful, so if its particularly bad, im at home and im in a rush XD

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I've heard of that phrase before Nys. Before I got to Texas.

You need to get out more dude.

 

[Nysyarc]

Not having heard one obscure phrase can hardly indicate that I need to get out more, although if by 'out' you mean out of the district I live in then you're probably right. I've been outside of the Halifax/Dartmouth region for maybe 1% of my waking hours... at most.

 

[theeboredone]

Dang Nys...go on a vacation (WHOBO).

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's not obscure though Nys. I've heard it a number of times...in two different provinces + Texas. >_>

 

[Heartstring]

nys just needs to discover the wonder of irl social events XD
i kid. but yes, go on vacation to whobo and someone find me a $50 plane ticket to the venue XD

 

[WeretigerX]

I personally think Yoshi has the advantage against Ike. His floatiness gets around most of Ike's attacks, Yoshi's air dodge lasts long enough to go through a full Uair, and dem egg bombs. I'd say it's 40-60 in Yoshi's favor. Unless there's a great strategy against Yoshi that I'm missing.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Your reasoning is nothing why I think Yoshi does well against Ike. It's all about his grabs.
Eggs if you're talking about hitting out of Aether. Which leads to a painful grab.

 

[Ussi]

Yoshi doesn't have a shield, jab cancel his shield and if he tried to spot dodge out of it, you just keep jabbing

 

[WeretigerX]

Your reasoning is nothing why I think Yoshi does well against Ike. It's all about his grabs.
Eggs if you're talking about hitting out of Aether. Which leads to a painful grab.

Oh yes, I forgot about those.

 

[Ussi]

Thoughts on converting to the BBR MU Chart system?

 

[Heartstring]

Thoughts on converting to the BBR MU Chart system?

imokwiththis.jpg
would make sense

 

[Teh Brettster]

I like it better that way than with % honestly. % that add up to 100 get SO misleading. It's easier to just put them into a category.
And even if it's tough to put them into one category, we can average votes and give them a decimal rounded to the nearest tenth or something.

 

[san.]

I could try. Geez, this number system condenses down my scores way too much. Changing the number by a point feels like a huge leap.

-2 (want this at -3 but we have the MU better than lots of characters that put -2 IMO (they should be -3 too))
-1
0 (want -1 but I don't recall having trouble vs any diddys although it should seem that way on paper)
0
+1
0
+1
-1
0
-1
0
-1
-1
-1
0? (maybe -1 who knows/cares)
0 (maybe -1 too but I never felt disadvantaged vs fox before)
0
0
+1
+1
+2
0
/ 0
0
0/0
+1
+1
+1
+1
+2
+2
0
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1
+2
+1
+2

 

[Ussi]

San going in hard! I'm gonna be making my numbers trying to be as compromising as i can to the other side....

-3
-1
-1
-1
0
-1
+1
-1
0
-2
0
-1
-1
-1
0
-1
0
0
0
0
+2
-1
/ 0
0
1/Sympathy
0
0
+1
+1
+1
+2
0
+1
+2
+2
+1
0
+1
+2
+2
+2

 

[san.]

is much better used together than just zelda or just sheik in the Ike MU.

If I make MK -3, I shift DDD to -2. ZSS probably -2 for me until I get the MU better.

A lot of characters got potential points to them knocked off because of weight. Weight/ease of killing was a large factor in a lot of my viewpoints.

 

[Ussi]

I find switching to Zelda shooting yourself in the foot against Ike

Personally i think you shouldn't compare numbers to other characters, just put what you think is the MU between Ike and MK

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I freaking hate the new number system. -_- It makes everything more vague. "Even though X is clearly a harder MU than Y, we have to rate them the same because we don't have enough numbers in the system."

 

[Ussi]

Is it really a big deal? Not like difficulty matters... its completely subjective to the player

which makes it harder to rank difficulty as a factor when deciding a MU

 

[AN(M)ist]

Is it really that vague?

0 - even
1 - slight adv./disadv.
2 - adv./disadv.
3 - heavy adv./disadv.
4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H91rPIq2mN4

 

[Ussi]

Yea think of it like that, do not think numbers. Just how heavy of a disadvantage

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What counts as a slight disadvantage/normal disadvantage can change from person to person, just like a bigger number scale. However, due to less options to choose from, it's even more vague as to what the board feels is a harder MU compared to another one.

It's not as precise, and leaves more room for confusion, not less. #5-#5 system is the best way to go when it comes to being precise, but not being ridiculously precise. All they had to do was give general terms to each step in the scale. Instead, they went for a smaller, very broad term scale without explaining what counts as a "slight disadvantage" or "normal disadvantage". That, and it oh so conveniently leaves MK with three neutral MUs when we all know he doesn't actually have any truly neutral MUs. Good job covering your tracks so you can avoid more MK ban discussions in the future by saying "but he has neutral MUs!".

The new system is just causing more problems then it's "fixing", and I see no reason to use it at all.

 

[Ussi]

All of those neutral MUs are really -1

A lot of -2 are -3, MK really is trying to sugercoat his MUs so he isn't banned.

 

[AN(M)ist]

if you want to see it in terms of ratio, then the only thing missing imo is 65:35, rest all seem covered.

0 - 50:50, 1 - 55:45, 2 - 60:40, 3 - 70:30, 4 - anything worse

 

[Nidtendofreak]

All of those neutral MUs are really -1

A lot of -2 are -3, MK really is trying to sugercoat his MUs so he isn't banned.

Exactly.

Why should I support something that is obviously an attempt to prevent future discussions about banning MK, even though the winnings per character data is starting to heavily suggest he's too dominant? BBR just needs to suck it up and ban the bat already instead of trying to cover for him.

I for one flat out refuse to use that system.

 

[Ussi]

oyi Niddo, just because people are using the system wrong, doesn't mean we can't use it right.

Also don't assign ratios to the numbers.. just stick to

Relatively Even
Slight Adv/Dis
Adv/Dis
Strong adv/Dis
HEAVY adv/dis (beyond hope)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

But words are no where near as precise as numbers. Words have a lot more leeway to their meaning than a pure number system, or number and word system. >_<

Everybody can see "55-45" and understand the general meaning behind it. "Slight advantage" can have a whole range of meanings, depending on the person.

 

[Ussi]

leeway makes it more agreeable with other parties

precision just leads to flame wars and

This MU is 50.00001/49.99999 because its almost even, just a tiny smidgen better for this said character.

Some 55/45 can be relatively even and some 55/45 can be slight advantage

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Leeway makes it so at first it's more agreeable, but later there are flamewars when trying to explain it's difficulty in depth to others.

Numbers have initial difficulties, but are more reasonable afterwards.

50/50 is dead even, 55/45 is relatively even but slightly stronger stage options/one tiny thing pushes it away from true even, 6/4 is slight advantage, 65/35 is advantage, 70/30 is strong advantage, 75/25 is "you can't lose unless you screw up badly"

 

[Ussi]

we already have different views on numbers

I put relatively even as 50/50


Niddo, if i was to translate the numbers to ratios for you, i'd put it at:
0= 50
1 = 58/42
2 = 63/37
3 = 68/32
4= 73 and worse


And then assign numbers based on which the ratio is closest too. Even gets a bigger range because people will argue for even over a small dis/adv for their character when they can.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

And we already have different views on what the wording version means. *shrugs* You're going to have conflict with either system, but the number system is more easy to understand what the other person is trying to say the MU is compared to others.

 

[san.]

It just seems like they squished down the chart, which makes it hard to relate what I had before. IT has nothing to do with whether representational symbols are in the form of words or numbers.

 

[Ussi]

I think the BBR's goal was to stop being so precise with MUs. It does make it hard to go from precise to ambiguous

 

[theeboredone]

Honestly, I don't see the end result for this chart to us veterans. The game is almost 3 years old, and by now, most of us tourny players or even wifi players know the match ups to a certain degree. Not by number, but most of us can tell whether or not it's going to be a tough match up or not through experience. It just feels like that list is designed for newcomers, which we're not going to get much of, since we're 3 years into the game.

 

[san.]

Yeah. Still fun to play politics, and nice to know other people's viewpoints, just to have something to discuss.

 

[Ussi]

Its really just for players who are picking up new characters or looking for a 2ndary, which newcomers do fall under.