The HARDEST Match-Up(s) For Each Character - Block 4: Olimar, Pikachu & Kirby.

[TP]

We Ganon mains have often debated which matchup is harder between ICs and Sheik. I think it is Sheik because at least certain stages can help against ICs, but there is no stage that changes the fight with Sheik. Also, you have to be good with ICs to completely shut down Ganon, while I can't beat people who have never used Sheik before as long as they know about the Ftilt lock and (God forbid) chain camping.

 

[bobson]

Mario: Marth/King Dedede

Marth is around 60:40 at worst, dude. Why do people think Marth ***** Mario?
King Dedede, Metaknight and Mr. Game & Watch are all harder matchups by far.

 

[hundreds of utilts]

meh, the OP looks accurate for the most part.

and if i'm not mistaken isn't MK supposed to be a buffed version of Marth?

so how is marth anyone's worst MU?

 

[.AC.]

^^^^ mk isnt anywhere being close to marth in terms of gameplay

 

[Gindler]

Marth has more range and a better grab release. And IMHO dancing blade > tornado. That Fair makes approaching him a hassle too, MK just has more speed and faster attacks really but you can still punish easier thanks to his lower aerial range.......................

 

[Meese]

Can someone explain why Diddy's worst MU is Luigi?
whats luigis edge?

 

[Marcbri]

IMO

Meta Knight: Snake/Bowser ( new infinite)
Snake: Wario/MK
Falco: Kirby/Ice Climbers
King Dedede: Olimar
Game and Watch: Snake/Marth
Marth: DDD
Diddy Kong: Luigi
Wario: Marth/Meta Knight/King Dedede
R.O.B.: Meta Knight/ZSS
Lucario: King Dedede
Olimar: Meta Knight/Marth
Pikachu: Marth
Kirby: Snake
Donkey Kong: King Dedede
Ice Climbers: Snake
Zero Suit Samus: Falco
Toon Link: Meta Knight
Pit: Snake
Peach: Meta Knight
Wolf: King Dedede
Luigi: King Dedede
Zelda: Olimar/G&W
Bowser: King Dedede
Fox: Pikachu/Sheik
Sheik: Pikachu/Ice Climbers
Ike: Olimar/King Dedede/Meta Knight
Mario: King Dedede
Lucas: Marth/Game and Watch/Olimar
Ness: Game and Watch/Marth/more people
Samus: King Dedede/Olimar
Sonic: Wario/Lucario
Pokemon Trainer: Marth/King Dedede
Yoshi: Snake/King Dedede
Link:Kirby/Jigglypuff/Metaknight
Jigglypuff: Game and Watch/Snake
Ganondorf: Sheik
Captain Falcon: Pikachu/Metaknight

 

[Deathcarter]

Inui, did you discuss Luigi with Boss or something? Because unless there is much more to Dedede's advantages than the infinite, Dedede can't be Luigi's worst matchup. His infinite on him does not even work until kill percentages where Luigi will no longer be able to escape the pummels DDD needs to do in order to maintain his Dthrow's freshness.

Marth/MK/G&W should be harder matchups probably because they are that much harder for Luigi to approach and actually land hits on than DDD is.

 

[Maniclysane]

IMO

Meta Knight: Snake/Bowser ( new infinite)

This is such bull. MK can outspace Bowser, MK can plank Bowser way too hard, and plus bowser can't do much when MK is under him. His downb is easily punished and has little priority, and bowsers dair is garbage. Theres no possible way Bowser counters MK.

 

[Excellence]

The actual list, no opinions just facts:

Meta Knight: Meta Knight
Snake: King Dedede
Falco: Mr. Game & Watch
King Dedede: Olimar
Game and Watch: Snake
Marth: Meta Knight
Diddy Kong: Falco
Wario: Marth
R.O.B.: Meta Knight
Lucario: King Dedede
Olimar: Meta Knight
Pikachu: Marth
Kirby: Marth
Donkey Kong: King Dedede
Ice Climbers: Meta Knight
Zero Suit Samus: Falco
Toon Link: Meta Knight
Pit: Meta Knight
Peach: Meta Knight
Wolf: King Dedede
Luigi: King Dedede
Zelda: Olimar
Bowser: King Dedede with the infinity, Diddy Kong without.
Fox: Shiek
Sheik: Ice Climbers
Ike: Olimar
Mario: King Dedede
Lucas: Game and Watch
Ness: Marth
Samus: Meta Knight
Sonic: Wario
Pokemon Trainer: Meta Knight
Yoshi: (This one I don't know, someone check, please.)
Link: Olimar
Jigglypuff: Mr. Game & Watch
Ganondorf: Olimar (5:95 lmfao)
Captain Falcon: Pikachu/Metaknight

 

[Palpi]

Until I see a bowser player destroy a competent MK player using that new infinite then I disagree with bowser being a counter. Even Vex said a campy / spammy MK desotrys bowser.

 

[xDD-Master]

King Dedede: Olimar

King Dedede: Olimar

Agreed, from my own experience... it's simply impossible to win, much harder than against Falco (WoP ftw.)

Btw. I'm reading everything you're writing guys, I'm just to lazy for now to do something because I would have to change it every hour

I know it's hard to say which MU really is the worse, but I hope we will find one for every character.

Maybe we should divide this into weeks (Like the Weekly Matchup Discussions in the different boards). For example three characters per week. What do you think ?

 

[Marcbri]

yep, Olimar ***** DDD way more than Falco imo.

mm, I dunno about bowser, maybe it's not a viable tactic.

 

[TP]

The actual list, no opinions just facts:

Ganondorf: Olimar (5:95 lmfao)

Where on earth did you get that? Olimar is Ganon's 4th hardest matchup, behind Sheik, ICs, and Falco. It is nowhere near 5:95. Nobody has EVER called it 5:95 to my knowledge, and I was there when we were deciding the matchup number.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wario is not a hard matchup for Sonic -_-

 

[SuSa]

Snake kills Olimar from a d-throw, lol. Snake does fine.



I think every good GaW main says it's Snake, dude. I definitely agree because I always beat them with Snake.

You do have an idea on how hard it is to grab any decent Olimar with Snake, correct? I know our dthrow ***** Olimar, but the techchase isn't going to instantly make it even - especially with the difficulty it can be to get.

 

[Zhamy]

So right, I'm just going to say it now.

Sheik is a worse matchup than Pikachu for Fox.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

heh, you should probably change like 90% of those mk's to marth because marth is much better at gaying lower tiered characters

also, isn't lucario's worst ddd?

 

[Excellence]

Where on earth did you get that? Olimar is Ganon's 4th hardest matchup, behind Sheik, ICs, and Falco. It is nowhere near 5:95. Nobody has EVER called it 5:95 to my knowledge, and I was there when we were deciding the matchup number.

I got it from playing DAD, Kalm, and all the other best Ganondrof players on the Ganon boards. They can't get near a good Olimar.

 

[ShadowLink84]

heh, you should probably change like 90% of those mk's to marth because marth is much better at gaying lower tiered characters

also, isn't lucario's worst ddd?

you do realize that MK is capable of doing much of what Marth can offensively to a greater degree.
Defensive wise Marth is better but offensively, MK does things better which has enabled him to be better.

So do explain why marth is ****** those characters that much harder when MK is capable of doing that much more?

 

[Xebenkeck]

I could argue viamently Ness' worst match-up is Wario not Marth, Ya marth has a 0-death, but he has to catch ness first, and there are legit stratagies to get around the infinate. Wario however simply shuts ness down in everyway possible, you think ness' fair is good, no warios dair is better. You thing ness has decent range, no warios is better, you think ness can space well, wario out spaves him, etc. Everything ness does well, which isn't much unfortunatly, wario does way better and completely shuts him down.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

you do realize that MK is capable of doing much of what Marth can offensively to a greater degree.
Defensive wise Marth is better but offensively, MK does things better which has enabled him to be better.

So do explain why marth is ****** those characters that much harder when MK is capable of doing that much more?

mk can't tipper ko those guys at 50-70%, or gay them from a grab

and mk has less air speed (excluding the glide)/range in the air, making marth actually a bit better at getting in on a few characters

 

[ShadowLink84]

mk can't tipper ko those guys at 50-70%, or gay them from a grab

Metaknight doesnt need to because he has reliable methods of getting them off stage and then gaining an early KO.
Marth does not tipper KO from 50-70%.
Thats only on light weight characters with no DI.
meanwhile MK gays them with his incredible gimp game and his better offensive game.

and mk has less air speed (excluding the glide)/range in the air, making marth actually a bit better at getting in on a few characters

Metaknight ahs more range to his moves that are safe.
Both MK's Fair and Bair outdo Marths.
Meanwhile his Upair actually combos which Marths Up air doesnt, he also has a much better Dair.
Nair wise Marth sis certainly better but thats it really.
on the whole, Marth is outdone in anything offensively.

All the characters that marth hurts badly, he doesn't need to use what MK is actually inferior in, defense.
What use is dolphin slash/dancing blade when thee characters you **** die from the same reason that Mk kils them.
You aren't going to see msot of those characters die at 50-70% from a tipper as often as you see MK gimping them.

 

[CRASHiC]

DDDs hardest matcup is DDD cause DDD players will always switch except Co18 cause he's crazy.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I take it you've never played a good marth

good marth vs bad character is pretty dumb

also, a tipper vs marth against some characters means they are as good as dead

 

[gm jack]

So right, I'm just going to say it now.

Sheik is a worse matchup than Pikachu for Fox.

+1
Sheik's Dtilt locks him at low %, and then can Ftilt lock until he pops out at kill percentages into a perfect position for a tipper Usmash.

And Zelda's worst is G&W. Olimar is tough, but G&W is definitely a harder fight.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I take it you've never played a good marth

I take it you are an idiot because smart people, do not make assumptions.

good marth vs bad character is pretty dumb

Good metaknight vs bad character is pretty dumb.
Look, I can make statements without supporting my argument and without attempting to refute the opposing parties arguments.

also, a tipper vs marth against some characters means they are as good as dead

Hmm wait this sounds familiar. Oh wait, I responded to it earlier.

Marth does not tipper KO from 50-70%.
Thats only on light weight characters with no DI.

Oh look I did respond.

Now actually refute my argument rather than just repeating yourself in some awful attempt at defending your argument.

 

[.AC.]

pikachu,s chaingrab is easier to set up since grabs are easier to get than ftilts or dtilts,even though both do a lot of damage to him,pika besides having the chaingrab also has more advantage over fox than sheik does making it an almost unwinnable match.overall chaingrab is easier to start than ftilt and pika is worst matchup than sheik.

 

[Excellence]

DDDs hardest matcup is DDD cause DDD players will always switch except Co18 cause he's crazy.

You're wrong. Olimar vs Dedede is way harder for Dedede than facing himself. No Dedede fights Olimar when he has a reliable secondary.

 

[Poltergust]

Although Marth is indeed a bad match-up for Yoshi, I don't think it is THE absolute worst match-up for him. I think Lucario is his worst match-up.

 

[.AC.]

how can d3 be his own worst matchup be himself(besides infinite) since it is 50-50.wait if d3 is his own worst matchup...omg he is broken,ban him now

 

[Poltergust]

A couple more things...

I believe that Ganondorf's worst match-up is Sheik, actually. If I remember correctly, it's 95:5 in her favor.

Also, I think you should spread out PT's Pokemon.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

A couple more things...

I believe that Ganondorf's worst match-up is Sheik, actually. If I remember correctly, it's 95:5 in her favor.

Also, I think you should spread out PT's Pokemon.

Ice Climbers have a 100-0 on Ganon, so no. Sheik would be his second hardest, and still harder for Ganon than everyone elses hardest match-up.

 

[Sinatra']

I think Ness' worst enemy is Mario! I mean skilled Mario's though...

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Ice Climbers is falcos worst matchup . i would know i main falco.

worst captain falcon matchup is not metaknight, its snake.

 

[CRASHiC]

You're wrong. Olimar vs Dedede is way harder for Dedede than facing himself. No Dedede fights Olimar when he has a reliable secondary.

Co18 does haha and wins

 

[Inui]

Inui, did you discuss Luigi with Boss or something? Because unless there is much more to Dedede's advantages than the infinite, Dedede can't be Luigi's worst matchup. His infinite on him does not even work until kill percentages where Luigi will no longer be able to escape the pummels DDD needs to do in order to maintain his Dthrow's freshness.

Marth/MK/G&W should be harder matchups probably because they are that much harder for Luigi to approach and actually land hits on than DDD is.

Boss owns those characters (especially MK and GaW) and loses to Atomsk's Dedede, lol. I also find Luigi easy if I'm Dedede. W/e, lol. It's a lot of personal experience, I admit.

yep, Olimar ***** DDD way more than Falco imo.

Not according to Seibrik, Atomsk, and CO18.

D-throw --> suck = combo.

The actual list, no opinions just facts:

<wrong list>

Ah, yes, the mighty Excellence. Such a known top player that he can say his opinion on match-ups is fact, and he even believes this himself.

Tell me, oh destroyer of tournaments (if what you posted is pure fact, your opinion must be highly educated to the point where it's now fact, meaning you are the best ever), how did you come to those conclusions?

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda's hardest fight is G&W, NOT Olimar. Olimar is an uphill battle while G&W is like scaling a ****ing cliff.

 

[TP]

Where on earth did you get that? Olimar is Ganon's 4th hardest matchup, behind Sheik, ICs, and Falco. It is nowhere near 5:95. Nobody has EVER called it 5:95 to my knowledge, and I was there when we were deciding the matchup number.

I got it from playing DAD, Kalm, and all the other best Ganondrof players on the Ganon boards. They can't get near a good Olimar.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that an 85-15 matchup could go either way. My mistake. I also forgot that only one character can **** a certain character. It is impossible for a character to have more than 1 bad matchup. I also forgot that anecdotal evidence is the key to matchup numbers, especially Wifi evidence.

 

[Crizthakidd]

mks worst matchup is just another mk.

lucarios and wolfs worst is DDD