The Future of Samus: THE LEDGE

[NO-IDea]

some ghey comment

You ghey.

Spoiler

trolling

 

[J4pu]

And lava works FOR Samus because spike is so easy to combo opponents with it.

Except that the lava forces samus to leave the edge giving the opponent the option of sitting around out of range of everything (the far platform) and wait until the lava gives them back their original (advantaged) mu against samus.

P.S. do you have any idea how annoying it is to quote only the desired part of any of your posts?

 

[Darkshadow7827]

And yes SG, brinstar is really good cause our fair anduair and whatever gain extended hitboxes. it helpfull. This thread is helping out people, me happy.

Wait what? How does that happen? Was it programed or were you being sarcastic... And yes this thread did help me out.

 

[Mr9]

Wait what? How does that happen? Was it programed or were you being sarcastic... And yes this thread did help me out.

its the little ooz or fleshy "pillars" on the edge of the stage.

 

[IsmaR]

Except that the lava forces samus to leave the edge giving the opponent the option of sitting around out of range of everything (the far platform) and wait until the lava gives them back their original (advantaged) mu against samus.

lolno. Samus can still cover half the stage with either missiles or Z-air. She can also manipulate the right platforms fairly easy, so she can both destroy them to allow her projectiles/long ranged attacks more freedom, and avoid the acid when it comes up by climbing to the top in time. The acid more than not gives her less of a disadvantage than most others, which is what gives her the advantage.

@Smash G O D - Stop stealing my posts/ideas on AIM D:<

But si, Brinstar is the shiz. The only character I see going completely even/having an advantage her is Meta Knight, and even he can be beaten here. Never noticed that I pretty much do everything Xyro said on this stage, it is legit.

Spoiler

And fun <3

 

[DelxDoom]

brinstar should be practiced on for best results. it's good stuff when you get used to it

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Pshhh I don't steal ALL of it from you Issy

And when the lava rises you just ledgejump and you can Zair or homing missile or Uair/Fair straight out of it, depending on where your opponent is. Or spike if the position is right.

 

[IsmaR]

U-tilt on acid-burned opponents = <3
Aerial Screw Attack KO = <33333333333
B-air on acid-burned opponents = That ain't Samus

 

[gigasteve]

I always thought Samus was good with ledges but I didn't know she had this much potential with them. Good work Xyro.

 

[LucasGrey]

wow her invunerablitity frames of get up attack are crappy but i knew that already doesn't help when lucas is spam dsmash on you ledge

 

[LanceStern]

I need people to explain this extended hitbox stuff. Actually explain not just give me 5 words on it. Please

 

[Xyro77]

I need people to explain this extended hitbox stuff. Actually explain not just give me 5 words on it. Please

When you hit BREAKABLE things such as:

brinstar bubbles or the little poll things that rip apart
castle seige statues
yoshi island(melee) blocks
luigi's mansion polls


The hit box of your attack STAYS out longer than it would if u attack thin air. We just use the term "extended hit box".

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Gotta love the extended hitbox. On the left platform at Brinstar if you SH through the stage (not too far though) and Zair then you'll have this stage-covering Zair that lasts for a second because of the breakable part in the middle of the stage xD

 

[LucasGrey]

Xyro can you go into detail about how to get off the ledge from a Olimar. I still can't figure it out. Like this one Olimar i play alot spaces grabs off the ledge and i if you get up normally you get grabbed, if you roll of the ledge you get an fsmash in you face if you jump because Olimar is constantly grabing you are jumping into a upair/upsmash and stuff like that. What can i do to counter that because I'm not a bad Samus i just fail at Olimars.

 

[LucasGrey]

brinstar should be practiced on for best results. it's good stuff when you get used to it

either that or norfair my constant cp is norfair i absolutely love it. you killing power is more useful both places though the stage is small and more compact lessening you spamming ability.

 

[DiZmY??]

He also has the LONGEST horizontal tether in the game.

SHE also has the LONGEST horizontal tether in the game.

Fixed

 

[Mr9]

SHE also has the LONGEST horizontal tether in the game.

Fixed

hey buddy dont go around fixing every bodies typos, seriously your life willo become nothing but grammar nazi-ing

 

[KillerJawz]

According to the extended hitbox stuff, im fairly confused.

I was Jiggs the other day and I was in an ffa. I launched my rest, and it landed on the first opponent, the second opponent who wasn't even on me, got hit aswell.

I believe the hitbox expands AND extends.

 

[Xyro77]

According to the extended hitbox stuff, im fairly confused.

I was Jiggs the other day and I was in an ffa. I launched my rest, and it landed on the first opponent, the second opponent who wasn't even on me, got hit aswell.

I believe the hitbox expands AND extends.

The thing you experienced is the same thing that happens if you were to hit the things on brinstar or the pillars of luigis mansion. This type of things really helps samus while ledge stalling.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Xyro i respect you (although you spam zair like a psychopath) and for sure it has many pros to have an advanced ledge game, but to CAMP on the ledge for winning is so ****ing LAME, and i am 100% sure this is not the key to make samus better, if i want to play so much lame i take metaknight and start camping on the edge it's more simple and effective than samus ledge game.
seriously samus has so much potencial, especially the close combat could be very better, but it needs a community with creative ideas to make samus better and not a ****ing lame camping style (and what the **** is on camping positive, if the enemy leads. you must show your moves before you can camp, and then when you've shown your moves show them until the end).
indeed samus is a very profound charakter with many options for many situations and with ****ing skill we can make her better, but not so.

Samus presence

Samus Future - RIGHT WAY

Samus Future - Xyro way -> WRONG WAY

 

[NO-IDea]

The Digimon reference was pro. 10/10

 

[Mr9]

hehe greymon..... i dont like greymon

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro i respect you (although you spam zair like a psychopath) and for sure it has many pros to have an advanced ledge game, but to CAMP on the ledge for winning is so ****ing LAME, and i am 100% sure this is not the key to make samus better, if i want to play so much lame i take metaknight and start camping on the edge it's more simple and effective than samus ledge game.
seriously samus has so much potencial, especially the close combat could be very better, but it needs a community with creative ideas to make samus better and not a ****ing lame camping style (and what the **** is on camping positive, if the enemy leads. you must show your moves before you can camp, and then when you've shown your moves show them until the end).
indeed samus is a very profound charakter with many options for many situations and with ****ing skill we can make her better, but not so.

While i LOVE the digimon pics, i disagree with your view on this topic 100%.


If i wanted to be as lame as possible i would go metaknight(you said that and i agree) but MOST of us want nothing to do with metaknight so picking him is not an option for us. We want to do the BEST we can with SAMUS and even if it means we must ledge stall, then so be it.


Its IMPLIED that you gain the stock or % lead before you attempt to ledge stall. You would be a fool to stay on the ledge with the foe in the lead. Now as for samus close up combat, lets get real.......it SUCKS. Have you ever tried to a jab or ftilt and landed it on the foes shield and they then proceed to punish you while your jab/f-tilt ends? Ever Dtilt and they shield or side step and you get punished? Samus is NOT built for close combat(ALL of her close combat moves have massive lag). The ONLY close combat thats WORTH anything is the close combat that punishes rolls/spot dodges and SLOWER attacks(ganon jab for example). If you base your game on close combat and/or use close combat alot and you WIN or do well, your opponent is garbage....to be honest. If this were melee, where we had HITSTUN and SHIELD STUN i would agree with you 100%. But this is brawl and brawl is a campy/defensive game from A to Z.

I challenge you to go a rewatch Tudor's videos again and watch for his ledge play. Its truly funny because i used to **** talk that guy about his samus being garbage and guess what, he was doing the basics of what i have mention in this thread WAY before i even thought about the ledge. AKA he KNEW that the ledge is one of safest/most effective places to be in this game. Watch his videos and see what he does, some of his ledge stuff is down right scary(because he knew this stuff since the beginning).

If i have not made it clear ill give it another shot. THE LEDGE is a spot where YOU have more options than the foe does. As said on the first page, if you fight a DDD(a impossible match-up) and STAY on the ledge, it suddenly becomes close to 50-50 because you now narrowed his ENTIRE MOVE SET down to 2 moves: d tilt and run off bair. BOTH of which you will see coming so far in advance and in such an obvious moment you will know how to deal with it when it happens. The ledge also has other added benifits that increase our abilities. It sets us up for possible spikes and re-tether gimps(more so than any other time)...dont we excel in that area anyway? Wait, so this new ledge play FORCES the foe to be in a situation that we EXCEL in...OMG!!!!

I have beat and 3 stocked players WELL above me in skill and experience due to this new type of ledge play. This thread will not make samus top tier nor is it meant to even try. Its meant to prove what XYRO has been proving since day one. SAMUS CAN COMPETE AT THE SAME LEVEL as the other HIGHER TIER characters.


Final remarks....

If you feel Samus close combat is under-developed, i challenge you to make a thread on it and help expand her game in that area. From what ive seen in your videos, you know what you are doing and it would be nice to see what you have to bring to the table.



PS: this post was not meant to offend you in anyway. it is just a response to our difference in opinion.

 

[LanceStern]

I agree ledge stalling/camping is not cool even if it makes ehr a competitor.

Jab cancelling and the newfound DSMASH is great close combat stuff btw

 

[Xyro77]

Well as i said in the opening post. This new ledge play requires you to CHANGE the way you think about smash/samus/competing. if you cant change that, then you will be forced to find other means of getting better.

maybe i should get some videos of things you can do from the ledge.

 

[LucasGrey]

Well as i said in the opening post. This new ledge play requires you to CHANGE the way you think about smash/samus/competing. if you cant change that, then you will be forced to find other means of getting better.

maybe i should get some videos of things you can do from the ledge.

Videos would be nice.

 

[Mr9]

Videos would be nice.

lol videos arent really needed just ledge hog and and play off the ledge.

i have tried it its very effective just isnt fun.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

If i wanted to be as lame as possible i would go metaknight(you said that and i agree) but MOST of us want nothing to do with metaknight so picking him is not an option for us. We want to do the BEST we can with SAMUS and even if it means we must ledge stall, then so be it.

well my view is to play creative, varied with skill and with passion. i don't care, if i win but i'm interested HOW i win (maybe brawl is the wrong game..). because of that, i am very negative too all that stuff. and samus is in my opinion a wonderful charakter you can do many great things and such a gay **** seeing on my charakter makes me a little bit aggressive (and yes sure i know your post was not to offend me, the same thing belongs from my post to you).

Now as for samus close up combat, lets get real.......it SUCKS. Have you ever tried to a jab or ftilt and landed it on the foes shield and they then proceed to punish you while your jab/f-tilt ends? Ever Dtilt and they shield or side step and you get punished? Samus is NOT built for close combat(ALL of her close combat moves have massive lag). The ONLY close combat thats WORTH anything is the close combat that punishes rolls/spot dodges and SLOWER attacks(ganon jab for example). If you base your game on close combat and/or use close combat alot and you WIN or do well, your opponent is garbage....to be honest. If this were melee, where we had HITSTUN and SHIELD STUN i would agree with you 100%. But this is brawl and brawl is a campy/defensive game from A to Z.

well first i don't prefer on her close combat, but i try to mix her possibilites up (close and range), and yes i see very much potencial in her closecombat!! the key is, even she has not much priority and the attacks have much ending lag, they still have very much RANGE. a spaced f-tilt is impossible to punish (just an example). the key in closecombat is to fight close but with a sure distance (->spacing even in closecombat). it's possible. but it takes skill, experience in every matchup and for samus herself, mindgames, endurance. but in my opinion THE PERFECT SAMUS PLAYER would play samus in a much more higher ranking list, than samus is in the moment, because that perfect player would have the perfect experience -> so he would have for any situation x a response, cause samus is capable to do very much things.

If i have not made it clear ill give it another shot. THE LEDGE is a spot where YOU have more options than the foe does. As said on the first page, if you fight a DDD(a impossible match-up) and STAY on the ledge, it suddenly becomes close to 50-50 because you now narrowed his ENTIRE MOVE SET down to 2 moves: d tilt and run off bair. BOTH of which you will see coming so far in advance and in such an obvious moment you will know how to deal with it when it happens. The ledge also has other added benifits that increase our abilities. It sets us up for possible spikes and re-tether gimps(more so than any other time)...dont we excel in that area anyway? Wait, so this new ledge play FORCES the foe to be in a situation that we EXCEL in...OMG!!!!

I have beat and 3 stocked players WELL above me in skill and experience due to this new type of ledge play. This thread will not make samus top tier nor is it meant to even try. Its meant to prove what XYRO has been proving since day one. SAMUS CAN COMPETE AT THE SAME LEVEL as the other HIGHER TIER characters.

well, god**** you are right, your tactic seems really to be effective and stuff but with the text before you surely understand how i think about our charakter. you are right. but i try to show you, that i am right, too. i will do the next days a compilation video -> i will show my style (a couple of ~ 1 minute clips how i fight successfully against some charakters). i will do it just for you guys on smashboards and maybe to inspire the samus player here, so our charakter gets even better. so. i even choosed the clips, i must just record and cut them, haha. even if you are glad to see my video, you can watch my combovideo and rate them with 5 stars, thank you xD

lol videos arent really needed just ledge hog and and play off the ledge.

i have tried it its very effective just isnt fun.

Well, indeed i want to see a video, where Xyro wins against good players, because i can't imagine it works SO good, he means.

 

[KillerJawz]

I tried this in one of my friendly matches, it worked... sort of well. I took the lead, went on the edge, got flame breathed, SD'd lol.

Future notes: DON'T GO TO FD. That is all.

 

[Xyro77]

well my view is to play creative, varied with skill and with passion. i don't care, if i win but i'm interested HOW i win (maybe brawl is the wrong game..). because of that, i am very negative too all that stuff. and samus is in my opinion a wonderful charakter you can do many great things and such a gay **** seeing on my charakter makes me a little bit aggressive (and yes sure i know your post was not to offend me, the same thing belongs from my post to you).

I admire your passion to be varied and creative with samus, i REALLY DO. That type of person is what will expand this character but i have come to realize that NO MATTER who has picked up Samus(Tudor/Xyro/No-Idea/Noob/Rohins) they dont do anything REVOLUTIONARY. Yes Tudor may have been ahead of the curve at the begining and yes i may be the best samus out there thus far but so what? I truly believe Samus(as she stands now) is about maxed out. I know this may seem wrong but i have YET to see people place top 5 at a LARGE scale event and i have yet to see techs or playstyles that can literally change match-ups. The closest thing is this new ledge stuff which is "boring" and "lame."

well first i don't prefer on her close combat, but i try to mix her possibilites up (close and range), and yes i see very much potencial in her closecombat!! the key is, even she has not much priority and the attacks have much ending lag, they still have very much RANGE. a spaced f-tilt is impossible to punish (just an example). the key in closecombat is to fight close but with a sure distance (->spacing even in closecombat). it's possible. but it takes skill, experience in every matchup and for samus herself, mindgames, endurance. but in my opinion THE PERFECT SAMUS PLAYER would play samus in a much more higher ranking list, than samus is in the moment, because that perfect player would have the perfect experience -> so he would have for any situation x a response, cause samus is capable to do very much things.

Mixing close combat with range is good and always a nice idea(zair to f-tilt, zair to dash attack comes to mind) BUT i disagree totally with the "spaced f-tilt is impossible to punish" sentence. Have you played a metaknight(f-tilt), Snake(f-tilt), Marth(over B), Rob(f-tilt)? EVERY ONE of those can hit you after the foe shields SAMUS f-tilt. now add into the equation,POWER SHIELDING. Now it becomes clear that nearly every character can punish samus out of her f-tilt.

My point is, samus is NOT built for close combat and/or an agressive style even if you space close combat properly. Ive seen metaknights AND marth AND gw players UP+B out of samus uair and fair. Samus is NOT as good as you think.

well, god**** you are right, your tactic seems really to be effective and stuff but with the text before you surely understand how i think about our charakter. you are right. but i try to show you, that i am right, too. i will do the next days a compilation video -> i will show my style (a couple of ~ 1 minute clips how i fight successfully against some charakters). i will do it just for you guys on smashboards and maybe to inspire the samus player here, so our charakter gets even better. so. i even choosed the clips, i must just record and cut them, haha. even if you are glad to see my video, you can watch my combovideo and rate them with 5 stars, thank you xD

Again, my tactic isnt the LAST HOPE for samus but its geting there. Without basing ALOT of your game on the ledge vs a TOP ddd or a TOP falco or a TOP meta, i seriously think the match-up will be impossible. If your videos can prove me wrong i will GLADLY admit it and take back what i said.

Well, indeed i want to see a video, where Xyro wins against good players, because i can't imagine it works SO good, he means

maybe you need to SEE to believe. If thats the case, i will attempt to get videos up.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Well in a few minutes I will post a little compilation in another thread. My opponents in it are pretty good, and it shows how i play succesfully with aggression and spacing against them. It will be nothing revolutionary, but maybe you will understand, that in my eyes Samus has not her potencial used up.

And yea the thing with ftilt you are right, I was hasty.

I made this video only just for you guys here, maybe I can help however with her metagame.

 

[Xyro77]

Well in a few minutes I will post a little compilation in another thread. My opponents in it are pretty good, and it shows how i play succesfully with aggression and spacing against them. It will be nothing revolutionary, but maybe you will understand, that in my eyes Samus has not her potencial used up.

And yea the thing with ftilt you are right, I was hasty.

I made this video only just for you guys here, maybe I can help however with her metagame.

Yes thank you for understanding the f-tilt thing. And yes ill check the video out as soon as it comes out. In fact, i recommend you make a thread based off of a agressive samus and use that video as an example. Kinda like the thing ive done with the ledge thing.

 

[RATED]

But how are you going to kill?
What will you do when your opponent has the lead?
What will you do when your opponent doesn't approach and just power shields everything from afar or snaps to the other ledge?
What will you do when the TO is standing over your shoulder?
Xyro is a TO so he wins LOL!
Yes, this could be used to mount damage on someone, but unless they are a total moron it shouldn't kill them. As long as they don't approach you, and you keep on the edge you're going to be called for excessive ledge stalling.

here's one

10xyros

 

[Judo777]

Sooooo how soon is the video gonna be up? cause its been a while since it was coming soon.

 

[Mr9]

Sooooo how soon is the video gonna be up? cause its been a while since it was coming soon.

Coming even sooner now

 

[Z1GMA]

Abusing Invinciframes from the ledge is too legit.

 

[ES Lite]

whats all the hype about? don't you guys know the samus god still lives? lol jk i'm not trolling or anything, just wanted to say hi to my fellow samus players

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Samus God? That would be me.

 

[Muz]

I want to see more vids of lite's samus Oh and Tudor, haven't seen a vid of him in a looooong time, whats happening?

 

[ES Lite]

I want to see more vids of lite's samus Oh and Tudor, haven't seen a vid of him in a looooong time, whats happening?

i cant post videos because i dont have the game....sad face.
oh well, i can only envy the fun you guys are having.
So what's been happening with samus? Oh yeah is this brawl or melee? cuz i think this is brawl, and you know how i feel about brawl! (jk you dont know how i feel because im too scared to diss everyone in this room because im still a little kid)