The Melee/Brawl debate has now been raging for close to five months, and it has taken a toll on the boards. General Brawl Discussion is a mess, transformed into a pit of flames that would make Satan himself blush. Melee Discussion, almost regularly (though it has been getting better) gets threads extolling the detriments that Brawl players bring upon the Smash community. Members of either game's community venture into the opposite game's boards with the sole aim of trolling or flame-baiting.
I agree that there are an incredible number of useless posts but I'm not going to be cynical enough to say that members of either game''s community solely went to the other game's boards for the sole purpose of trolling or flame-baiting. People like Yuna have made long and intelligent posts.
I will now prove, logically, how inane this line of thinking is and dispel once and for all the notion that we, as a community, cannot continue to play both games competitively, as well as the notion that Brawl (as well as the people who play it) is somehow to blame for all of Melee's problems.
Brawl isn't the cause of all of Melee's problems but to say it isn't the cause of most of them is nonsense. Let's say hypothetically that Brawl was never going to be made. Do you honestly think right now that Melee tournaments would be the exact same size? I think it's safe to say that isn't true.
Many, even in the early days, cited a lack of AT's (advanced techniques), most notably L-canceling (which was replaced with auto-canceled aerials), a lack of hitstun, and floaty physics as Brawl's downfall, and over the next few weeks leading up to Brawl's American release, SWF was ablaze with members warning about Brawl's 'features', or lack thereof. Yet, when Brawl's American release date came, a peculiar thing happened...
Despite all warnings, an overwhelming majority of Melee players purchased Brawl anyway.
I own a copy of Brawl. I won a Melee tournament that had no entry fee at my college and the prize for winning was a fully paid pre-order for Brawl. With hindsight, it is easy to see that it was foolish to expect that Brawl would develop to be a very good competitive game. I am fairly certain the majority of people who purchased Brawl did so with the expectation that things would be discovered to make comboing better and for the game to be played faster. I sure as hell know that's why a good number of people bought it in NJ/PA. Is that really such bad logic? To purchase Brawl with the attempts of trying to make it a better game? Wavedashing was not discovered within the first month of competitive Melee.
This is the first step toward realizing that Brawl is not the cause of Melee's downfall. Every member of SWF, right out of the box, knew what Brawl's weaknesses were. Every member knew how different the game was. Every member heard the pro's evaluations and dismissals of the game, and every member knew what to expect going into their purchase. Most ignored the warnings and bought Brawl anyway. Not a single Melee player was forced to buy Brawl on day one. Not a single Melee player was forced to go to midnight tournaments, or first week tournaments, or even first month tournaments. Every Melee player that bought Brawl made a conscious decision to ignore the warnings of both Japanese and American top players and bought Brawl anyway. The current state of Brawl's popularity is just as much their fault as it is anyone else's. This, naturally, brings me to my next point.
No, every member of SWF did not know exactly 100% of how competitive Brawl was going to look like months after it was released when they bought it on the first day.
See this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujLvRh_4JHQ&feature=user
It looks distinctly different from this, besides the fact that the characters are different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr9EoMXWEGo
Also, it wasn't an idiotic notion to assume that Brawl was going to improve as a game as time went on. There are things that have been discovered relatively recently in Melee's life like scarjumping. I for one believed that combos like the ones that exist in Melee would be discovered in Brawl.
Brawl is currently more popular in tournament settings than Melee is, if SWF posters are to be believed (in terms of tournaments held and entrants per tournament). Many Melee supporters cite this popularity as the main reason Melee is so weak in the competitive scene and postulate that the trend will continue if Brawl is allowed to be played competitively. Well known poster and respected forum-goer coreygames gives us a look into this mindset by way of anecdote:
Tragically, in some regions the majority of the people play Brawl competitively. What this means is that the players in those regions who play Brawl competitively and not Melee should be considered BRAWL players, NOT Melee players. MD/VA is mainly a region of Brawl players. I've heard from sepiroth666 that about 1/2 the people who show up at Brawl tournaments used to be Melee players until Brawl came out and the other half are new people.
This, it seems, is a scenario that pervades the Melee scene regularly. It is the cause of much hostility towards the Brawl community as well. On the surface, it seems justified that coreygames is upset with the Brawl community; after all, Brawl stole his players, didn't it? I will now prove why this logic is fallacious and why Melee only has itself, as well as its own players, to blame not only for coreygame's situation, but also for the entirity of the poor state of Melee affairs.
This actually is the first time I've heard of such a scenario
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No, we would be deluded and blind to believe that this, though motivated, completely un-knowledgeable group would, without connections, resources, or stability, be able to topple competitive Melee. Who, then, must be blamed for Melee's current condition? If not Brawl and its players, who should be held responsible for the decline of competitive Melee?
Simply, competitive Melee players and tournament organizers.
Tournament organizers are NOT to blame.
me said:
Who is the person who posted this?
Plank said:
choosing brawl over melee is practically betraying the game we've spent years loving.
It's like cheating on your hot model girlfriend with inui, we just don't do that.
Plank's response said:
LOL spam i still agree melee is a better game, but as far as wanting serious tournament attendance, melee just isn't the way to go. Especially not in MD/VA
If the majority of a region doesn't play Melee a tournament organizer can't run a Melee tournament and expect a decent number of people to turn up. Not everyone has a choice to do what they want. Plank and plenty of other TO's didn't. If any group is to blame it is the group that USED to play Melee competitively and now plays Brawl competitively. If Brawl did not exist, I think it's safe to say that they would have continued to play Melee competitively until they got bored and quit.
It is this group who single-handedly demolished the reign of competitive Melee. The Melee players abandoned their own game for easy money and easy glory at the dramatic cost of not only competitive Melee, but also their own enjoyment of the game of Smash! Pro player Mew2King has on occasion stated his own distaste for Brawl and its gameplay:
One the largest (and most valid) criticisms aimed at not only M2K, but the entire Brawl-playing sect of the Melee community is very simple: If you hate the game so much, why do you play it? The answer, of course, is obvious. As of now, you can make more money playing Brawl than you can playing Melee. This is, in and of itself, not a bad thing, nor is it hypocritical.
A problem arises, however, when a Brawl-playing Melee supporter complains about the sorry state of Melee. This person, at a base level, is the true reason that Melee is on the decline. Brawl players, especially new members to the arena, do not have the time, money, resources, knowledge, etc., to run a successful large-scale Brawl tournament. The big tournaments, the ones bringing in the big cash and the large numbers of players, are run by former Melee TO's. These people, the same TO's so worried about competitive Melee's future, the same people who are quick to place blame on Brawl and Brawlers, are the very people making the conscious choice to host Brawl tournaments instead of Melee tournaments! The former Melee players entering these tournaments, the same ones who should be expected to populate Melee tournaments and the same ones who are quick to point fingers at Brawlers and Brawl tournaments for sucking away player attendance, are making the conscious decision to forgo competing in Melee tournaments so that they can make more money in Brawl tournaments! And the same pros that bash Brawl and Brawlers for shallowness and 'gayness' are consciously choosing to play said 'gay' game for more easy cash than to go and play an ailing game that they enjoy much more!
I this Brawl is a very shallow terrible game that is not suited for tournaments. Mew2King thinks along those lines as well.
Let me tell you something. I entered a Brawl doubles tournament that was a 2 minute walk from my dorm. After I got first in doubles, I got a ride to the train station
before singles started, paid ~$15 for a one-way ticket to Philly where I was picked up to go to Smashtastrophe 2, a Melee tournament. There were 5 people in the car and the tournament was in Pittsburgh. Everyone in the car paid a total of $50 for gas and tolls. Entry fees for crews, singles, doubles, and low tiers added up to $30. I spent ~$10-15 for food on this trip, I had no guarantee or expectation of winning money in any event except low tiers because Mew2King, Vidjogamer, and Chu Dat were going to be there. I knew exactly how expensive going to Smashtastrophe 2 was going to be over a week prior to going.
Never in my life have I been as proud of how I did in Smash as I performed at that tournament. In low tiers I beat Jiano 2-0, Mew2King 2-1 and 3-1, and after getting 3-0ed by Chu Dat in winners finals I won the first set 3-0 then lost 0-3 in grand finals. In singles I had Chu Dat R3 in winners and I won 2-1. R4 in winners was against Vidjogamer and I won 2-1 and then winners finals I got 3-0ed by Mew2King and then lost to Chu Dat 1-3. In doubles I got 7th with Lord Knight and in crews I got first along with Mew2King, Eggm, and Lord Knight. My total winnings gave me about a profit of $5 for going to Smashtastrophe 2. I could have stayed on campus, entered the Brawl singles tournament, made more money since I was all but guaranteed to get top 3 and probably split first and second. Hell, I could have stayed at Smashtastrophe 2, the venue had free housing and the second day of the tournament was Brawl. I did neither of those because Brawl is a bad game.
Yes, I will enter Brawl tournaments if they are close by as thus far I have never failed to place high enough to win money. At every Brawl tournament I have been at I have spent the entire time playing Melee friendlies when I wasn't playing Brawl tournament matches because Melee is a far superior game and Brawl doesn't require any warmup. There was one Brawl tournament where I spent 2-3 matches playing friendlies with a Kirby because I had Chu next and I wanted to make sure I'd win because if I didn't I wasn't going to place high enough to win $, though the time was wasted because Chu went Snake on me
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People like our dear coreygames have no reason, nor any right, to be mad at Brawl or Brawlers. Brawlers didn't abandon coreygame's tournament. Melee players did! Coreygames' own friends, compatriots, and fellow Melee players abandoned him to play Brawl of their own free will; they were not forced to go to the Brawl tournament, nor were they coerced or manipulated. Brawlers did not go up to these people and extol the virtues of Brawl, convincing them to play an (as far as many Melee players are concerned) 'inferior' game. These very players did what they, and other, do on a constant and daily basis all on their own. Sakurai did not make them trip and fall into the Brawl scene.
I have every reason and every right to be mad at Brawl. The game is a massive letdown. Prior to it's release I wanted it to replace Melee as much as Melee had replaced smash 64 and I wanted it to be as much better than smash 64 as Melee is. What a MASSIVE letdown Brawl is. I will never enter a Brawl tournament on the same day as a Melee tournament if I have any way to get to the Melee tournament. YOU have no right to tell me I can't be mad because people like me and M2K enter Brawl tournaments on days when Melee tournaments aren't running.
There is no reason to blame Brawl, Brawl supporters, Brawl players, or Brawl TO's for any of Melee's problems, because the Melee community brought every single one of them unto themselves. If these people really cared for Melee or for its continued competitive existence, they would play Melee. They would hold Melee tournaments. They would support their own game instead of calling on Brawl players to support it for them. Doing otherwise is childish and hypocritical.
Brawl IS to be blamed for many of Melee's problems. As I said earlier, if Brawl had never been made then there would be more Melee tournaments and more people playing Melee. That is FACT. I'm not going to go around posting that in every Brawl thread but it IS true. I DO play Melee. Mew2King DOES play Melee. Many people care FAR more about it and when there are tournaments, which is pretty frequently in the NJ/PA area, I go to them.
