_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Famous got ***** in a crew battle against Okin's lucas 2 stocked lmao
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The Complete Mario Matchup Thread
- Thread starter Inferno3044
- Start date
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
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- 12,542
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- RPV, California
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- A2ZOMG
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- SW 8400 1713 9427
lol gtfo kadaj, this is a srs matchup discussion.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
lol but its true 
I think Lucas has some things that enables him to compete with mario
not to mention lucas's powerful kill moves and all kinds of combos that can lead into those moves
I think Lucas has some things that enables him to compete with mario
not to mention lucas's powerful kill moves and all kinds of combos that can lead into those moves
BoTastic!
Smash Master
This is true. Everyone has been saying even for the longest. Idk why the discussion is still going.
Famous
Smash Champion
Wow, a crew battle......I only got ***** because I didn't know the matchup...The very 1st lucas I play turned out to be the best on the EC...
Once I did learn the matchup things turned out completely different...
But yeah, good lucases can be hard to gimp
Once I did learn the matchup things turned out completely different...
But yeah, good lucases can be hard to gimp
$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$
Smash Lord
lol ok peeps, Mario vs Lucas is 50/50, can yall go to Ness or any another character?
Inferno3044
Smash Master
Whatever you guys say. As long as I can fight him, I don't care if you guys say 105:-5 Lucas. I still think 55:45 Mario because I don't think a Lucas can hold his ground against us well enough to be even. I was a little overboard with 60:40 and I knew that from the start (mind games XD). Lets change characters if the majority agree on even.
Btw please don't use the reason "Oh this guy lost bad to *insert character here*" and think that proves a point. If you wanna put it like that, then C. Falcon is at least high tier because Ally is a beast with him.
Btw please don't use the reason "Oh this guy lost bad to *insert character here*" and think that proves a point. If you wanna put it like that, then C. Falcon is at least high tier because Ally is a beast with him.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
YOU LIE!!!! lol you played him before that in tourny or something and he beat you
the crew battle was the 2nd time you played him
No johns Famous
Clay Cooter motto "Be Better"
BoTastic!
Smash Master
I'm having trouble traveling atm. But If I'm able to go to pound 4 then that's a match we can have.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
There's probably a slight chance I can go, but if I'm able to I will be there.
EDIT: Since the majority says even, lets go with that unless people have problems. Let's choose another character.
EDIT (again): Kadaj mains Luigi? I thought he was a Marth
EDIT: Since the majority says even, lets go with that unless people have problems. Let's choose another character.
EDIT (again): Kadaj mains Luigi? I thought he was a Marth
Famous
Smash Champion
Crew battle was the 1st time I played him...or any lucas for that matter...get your facts straightYOU LIE!!!! lol you played him before that in tourny or something and he beat you
the crew battle was the 2nd time you played him
No johns Famous
Clay Cooter motto "Be Better"
I tied with him in pools at apex...
And kadaj doesn't main luigi
As for the motto...*** the motto, skill goes out the window in this game if you know how to counterpick
BoTastic!
Smash Master
Famous, U MAD?
Famous
Smash Champion
Naw, I'm mad chill right now....
Noraa
Smash Lord
to bad okin isnt even top 2 lucas on the ec so, you got beat by a normal lucas.
Famous
Smash Champion
He was and the majority of people claimed him to be...
Idk if he is now or not
Idk if he is now or not
Inferno3044
Smash Master
As much as you guys love to talk smack about Famous, let's get back to the actual discussion. Anybody have useful information to put in or do we want to end it and move on?
$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$
Smash Lord
Hellar, can yall move on already, lol? Are we going to Ness or some1 else?
Inferno3044
Smash Master
Why not? Ness starts now. I'll start off with what I know since I like using Ness for friendlies.
Ness can be a bit aggressive and he's got some kill power, he can't kill on the ground except with Fsmash which is slow or Bthrow which you should watch out for because I believe it's the strongest Bthrow in the game. On the other hand, his uair and sweetspotted bair will kill and he has the 2nd strongest spike in the game after Ganon. Unlike Lucas, he doesn't have any magnet to get him back on stage nor does he have a tether recovery which makes gimping him very easy if the time comes. His 2nd jump is good, but just hit him out of it. When he uses PKT2 do recover, just FLUDD him and/or the PKT and he will just die. He has at least the same amount of kill power as you, probably better.
Like Lucas, you aren't going to fireball camp for the same reason. Play sort of aggressively. His air game is fast, but yours is faster. It won't be hard to rack up damage on him either. You can kill him without gimps at semi-low percentages. I've done this quite a few times cuz it was wifi and I was being dumb. If you go for him off stage which is a good idea, DO NOT BE BELOW HIM AND DO NOT TRY TO PUNISH PKT WITH ANYTHING BESIDES FLUDD! I've done that quite a few times and I lost for being a ******* and getting hit by his dair spike and PKT2. It's just not worth the risk for either of those. I beat most Ness players around my level, but I will lose to someone like Zucco and Bajisci's Ness is good.
Stage wise, take him to Lylat. It messes up with is recovery making it even easier to gimp and also doesn't help him at all. If he ban's that, go to Yoshi's or FD. BF isn't bad either and maybe RC would be good for us, but I'm not sure. I would probably ban Delfino. It's not my favorite and the water benfits him much more than it does for us. No gimps for us and his spike is much better than ours. I think maybe there's a chance of his dtilt doing quite a bit on us against a wall. In other words, you do better on practically every neutral or at least good.
55:45 Mario.
Should I put down that Lucas is even?
Ness can be a bit aggressive and he's got some kill power, he can't kill on the ground except with Fsmash which is slow or Bthrow which you should watch out for because I believe it's the strongest Bthrow in the game. On the other hand, his uair and sweetspotted bair will kill and he has the 2nd strongest spike in the game after Ganon. Unlike Lucas, he doesn't have any magnet to get him back on stage nor does he have a tether recovery which makes gimping him very easy if the time comes. His 2nd jump is good, but just hit him out of it. When he uses PKT2 do recover, just FLUDD him and/or the PKT and he will just die. He has at least the same amount of kill power as you, probably better.
Like Lucas, you aren't going to fireball camp for the same reason. Play sort of aggressively. His air game is fast, but yours is faster. It won't be hard to rack up damage on him either. You can kill him without gimps at semi-low percentages. I've done this quite a few times cuz it was wifi and I was being dumb. If you go for him off stage which is a good idea, DO NOT BE BELOW HIM AND DO NOT TRY TO PUNISH PKT WITH ANYTHING BESIDES FLUDD! I've done that quite a few times and I lost for being a ******* and getting hit by his dair spike and PKT2. It's just not worth the risk for either of those. I beat most Ness players around my level, but I will lose to someone like Zucco and Bajisci's Ness is good.
Stage wise, take him to Lylat. It messes up with is recovery making it even easier to gimp and also doesn't help him at all. If he ban's that, go to Yoshi's or FD. BF isn't bad either and maybe RC would be good for us, but I'm not sure. I would probably ban Delfino. It's not my favorite and the water benfits him much more than it does for us. No gimps for us and his spike is much better than ours. I think maybe there's a chance of his dtilt doing quite a bit on us against a wall. In other words, you do better on practically every neutral or at least good.
55:45 Mario.
Should I put down that Lucas is even?
I've already given my bit of info here a few pages back. F.L.U.D.D. will not always gimp Ness, just like most Ness' won't really have a need to use PK Thunder unless they're way out off the stage, which in most cases doesn't happen. And if it does, they usually find themselves above stage level or at stage level. And his d-smash can also kill. I thought I'd let you know. And Lylat Cruise isn't really bad, just annoying. You want to take him to Yoshi's Island.
Matt07
Smash Master
Ness' f-air, is a huge problem in this match-up, I think. I think you might have to play a little more defensively then say Lucas. Ness' has a good grab range, so your going to have to be really picky with your spacing. Also his n-air is a wonderful 'combo/string breaker', and good OoS option too.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
If you don't go for him off stage he wont need PKT. Even a bair or fireball off stage can do it for you. I did not know that Dsmash can kill. Around what percent does it kill Mario at? Honestly I think fighting him on Yoshi's is a bigger advantage for us since we are better there. What stage should we ban against Ness.
You're right. Don't play as aggressively, but don't be really campy.
Shahryar2010
Smash Cadet
Hmm perhaps unless Ness is really high unless to land on the stage, Mario should hang on the edge to force Ness to PK thunder then FLUDD him? But other than that Ness will get gimped 70% of the time due to Cape Dash + FLUDD combo.
I would say 55:45, bit closer to 60:40 then 50:50.
Matt07
Smash Master
I'd throw 50:50 for match-up ratio. Don't forget guys Ness can d-air us offstage too. Or a sweet spotted b-air might kill us. We're pretty equal in gimping each other in my opinion, we just have slightly more options offstage to avoid getting gimped, or b-air then Ness.
I don't know what percent it kills Mario, but it can. And Yoshi's Island would be a better choice. A lot better than Lylat Cruise. You've got tons of stages to ban from Ness. Delfino Plaza, Brinstar, Final Destination (maybe), Pirate Ship, Norfair (if legal). Ness doesn't really have many bad stages, but as a Mario main, you can take advantage of certain stages such as Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, places like that.
That'll probably only happen if you can get him below stage level. Even then, not many Ness mains try to aim for the edge to grab. I still think this is an even match up. But if you guys disagree, then I'll go with 55:45, Mario. Really quick, I'll throw out that nair, dair, uair, u-smash, all go through Mario's Cape.
vato_break
Smash Master
Only move that goes through mario's cape is fair because it's disjoint is greater than marios and even then it will trade hits sometimes.
You Cape nair, dair, or uair, the attack can still hit because it's basically going vertical, so it doesn't exactly change direction. The frontal part of Ness' u-smash would be flipped around, making Ness facing the same direction that Mario is facing and the u-smash would than go behind Ness, the same place where Mario is standing. That's why I brought those up. I guess the right way of saying this is that they'd trade hits.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
Your facts about Ness are true. The thing is you move the other way quite a bit when hit by the cape causing you to miss.
EDIT: Uffe your tag is gonna make me dizzy o.0
It's still possible to hit, though, so it doesn't really change what I wrote.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
That's pretty much what match up discussions consist of. The first thing I see in a match up discussion vs Ness is "gimp". Frankly I'm a bit tired of reading that every time I see one. It makes me not want to discuss the match up because then that's usually where people only pick at. They don't explain anything else but, "Ness has a back throw, watch out. But we can gimp him." I mean, yeah, it's possible to gimp Ness, but it's not 100% foolproof.
I like it when people say, "Jump into his PK Thunder" when the only time that ever happens is when gimping him that way wasn't intended. I'm not saying that the Mario boards only say this, either. Zelda, Sheik, Lucario, Olimar, Bowser, anywhere. And if it does happen, I don't care how good you are, a smart player won't put their self in that position unless that's the only option they've got. I understand his recover isn't great, but it's also not horrible like a few others I can mention.
Anyway, that's my little rant.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
MU's are mostly theory. In a Pikachu discussion you can't say Boss did Bthorw > FLUDD > Cape > Fair and use that. There is some things that happen that are just brilliant like that.
I definitely said some good things about Ness. It's not like "oh Ness is off stage. He's dead." I said we gotta do something like bair or fireball to get you to stay off stage. Then it's a good chance of a gimp due to FLUDD. It's like Ike. You can't just say he will get gimped by us when he's off stage. On the other hand, if we get him in a certain spot with a fully charged FLUDD then chances are he will get gimped. You do have to admit though that Mario having the best edgeguarding/gimping ability out of every character except for MK, we can probably pull it off.
Man of Popsicle
Smash Lord
Mario's better watch out in this match-up because PKT2>Fludd.
Don't bother with attempting an fair spike either. For real.
Don't bother with attempting an fair spike either. For real.
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
Next character please.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
WHOA!! Are you serious? We can FLUDD you and/or PKT to move you and possibly hit the PKT causing you to go into a free fall stage. You know when people use "Oh just run into the PKT and he will fall" and think it'll work? What we do is hit it from a range and if we miss it, we push you away so that you won't be able to hit yourself. Also if you run into the FLUDD with PKT2, you will be in place for a bit able to set up and easy gimp. I'm sorry to say it, but your recovery like Ike, Falco, Fox, and possibly Kirby (too hard to try and too rare to happen) your recovery gets ***** by FLUDD. And seriously, why would we try to fair spike if we have FLUDD?
Btw I love you Kanzaki for putting that up! Good times.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
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FLUDD ***** PKT2 for real. FIHL is SERIOUS BUSINESS here.
But anyhow Mario has advantage this matchup just because you have more/better spacing options. Mario is faster and Ness unfortunately really doesn't have any real range advantage to compensate for this (he's a little more disjointed, but if Mario spaces well, Ness is going to trade hits in the best case scenario) Ness does have one more reliable KO move in the name of B-throw though, but when it comes to consistent damage dealing, Mario is overall better at this. KOing Ness isn't unreasonably hard when you can outrange his stuff with F-smash or gimp him in many different ways.
But anyhow Mario has advantage this matchup just because you have more/better spacing options. Mario is faster and Ness unfortunately really doesn't have any real range advantage to compensate for this (he's a little more disjointed, but if Mario spaces well, Ness is going to trade hits in the best case scenario) Ness does have one more reliable KO move in the name of B-throw though, but when it comes to consistent damage dealing, Mario is overall better at this. KOing Ness isn't unreasonably hard when you can outrange his stuff with F-smash or gimp him in many different ways.
Cape outranges the majority of Ness' moveset, including Fair if you have proper spacing...it's just slow as hell and hard to followup so Fair is still our main problem for the matchup.
Fludd doesn't always beat Ness offstage, same goes for everyone else. Maneuver yourself around to limit his options and either Fludd, cape, nair...whatever the situation calls for. Bottom line is that offstage is pretty bad for Ness in this matchup.
As for KO power, it's rather close...close enough that I refuse to be bothered with it.
Forgive me, I'm sick. This is a horrible write-up. I'll do better next time T_T
Famous, we need to play. I'm gonna msg you sometime today.
Fludd doesn't always beat Ness offstage, same goes for everyone else. Maneuver yourself around to limit his options and either Fludd, cape, nair...whatever the situation calls for. Bottom line is that offstage is pretty bad for Ness in this matchup.
As for KO power, it's rather close...close enough that I refuse to be bothered with it.
Forgive me, I'm sick. This is a horrible write-up. I'll do better next time T_T
Famous, we need to play. I'm gonna msg you sometime today.
$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$
Smash Lord
Mario totally ***** Ness, Ness don't have a lot of options like Mario in this matchup. Once we throw Ness off-stage, we got 4 options, spam fireballs, use the FLUDD of Truth, cape, or edgeguard him. It's not hard to kill Ness than Lucas. Mario and Ness can't juggle each other, they will always break each other aerials cuz it's feels like a Mario vs Luigi, breaking aerials 24/7 but anyways Ness got the advantage in aerial game a lil bit than Mario, the ground game goes to Mario. 55/45 Mario like always not 50/50, not even.
BoTastic!
Smash Master
I'm not going to say anything. if I do, Pk.....nintendo will show up..