The Captain Falcon Match-Up General Discussion ~ Week 21 (?)

[Darky-Sama]

[Link] Place the ratio as 50:50, we should try to make it generally even with whatever their board decides and most of them have claimed it to be 50:50. Even though I believe it's 55:45 Falcon, I'm not going to argue with it.

[Ice Climbers] 25:75 // 30:70. Again, Falcon has a few options but they're basically relying on the opponent not knowing how to punish him properly. Falcon could always rely on spacing away from them constantly and wait for a chance to desync them if they go midair, but still, very difficult.

 

[Zeallyx]

Link vs falcon: 50-50 is aight.

ICs vs falcon: 80-20.

 

[PZ]

All falcon has on Ic's is the easy **** of sister with uair n willz combo. Overall expect utilt and uair juggles, cgs/hobbling ****, desynchs, camping, and alot of priority falcon doesnt have when they are 2gether.

 

[Ramzeh]

All falcon has on Ic's is the easy **** of sister with uair n willz combo. Overall expect utilt and uair juggles, cgs/hobbling ****, desynchs, camping, and alot of priority falcon doesnt have when they are 2gether.

i love your avatar

lol tri

 

[PZ]

i love your avatar

lol tri

yep from tri ikr

 

[lordhelmet]

Uh, back for a bit. Going to a friend's house then I'll fix this thread up.

Didn't get to play any Links or ICs :S

 

[lordhelmet]

Double post, shoot me.

Discussing Pikachu now, I'll post stuff about it later but busy atm. And if anyone wants to help out, we have quite the summaries piling up (see second post).

 

[Ussi]

I know i mentioned this before some time ago here...

Pika CGs Falcon to 105%

A perfect CG could go fthrow x 2 > dthrow x 14 + grab/usmash/nair putting you around 118%+

the dthrow CG basically starts at 19% but there is some leeway on starting % but you'll get out sooner if you get CG'd at a higher %

 

[Player-1]

very bad matchup




edit:

p3 on p1s account

 

[lordhelmet]

Yes, if you get grabbed at the certain % this match-up becomes very very bad. I can say if you're not getting chaingrabbed then the match-up would be like 4-6 or something.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Everyone who mains Falcon should know about the chain grab; that's one of the reasons it's easily one of Falcon's worst match-ups. Much like the Ice Climbers, one grab from Pikachu can equal one stock lost. Not in a literal sense, but he can KO us with a variety of attacks afterward.

Pikachu's aerial and ground game are both arguably better than Falcon's as well, which is a depressing statement. The main thing Falcon has against Pikachu, like nearly all of his match-ups, is when Pikachu is above him. Uair can place Pikachu in a bad position.

Quick Attack Canceling can be used for Pikachu to space himself away from Falcon if necessary and help him guarantee a grab in all other cases, so it places Falcon in a bad position no matter how you look at it. QAC -> Nair is pretty useful against Falcon. lol.

Personally, I would just keep jabbing with Falcon as much as possible to keep the pressure on Pikachu and keep him limited on his approaches. It's hard for Pikachu to get around Falcon's jab with things such as Quick Attack (or even trying for a grab), so it's not bad to abuse it if you see it coming. Pikachu will probably try to attack via aerial / thunderbolt (or shock, whatever the neutral+b is) if Falcon is doing something like that, so lol.

It'll just limit Pikachu a small bit. It doesn't shut him down at all, though.

Errr... 25:75, Pikachu. That's probably an accurate ratio. It might even be reasonable to consider him a bigger threat than Meta Knight, as silly as that sounds. Pikachu shuts Falcon down almost as bad as Meta Knight does though, and we have almost nothing relatively useful against him.

 

[Zeallyx]

Everyone Falcon should know about the chain grab; that's one of the reasons it's easily one of Falcon's worst match-ups. Much like the Ice Climbers, one grab from Pikachu can equal one stock lost. Not in a literal sense, but he can KO us with a variety of attacks afterward.

Pikachu's aerial and ground game are both arguably better than Falcon's as well, which is a depressing statement. The main thing Falcon has against Pikachu, like nearly all of his match-ups, is when Pikachu is above him. Uair can place Pikachu in a bad position.

Quick Attack Canceling can be used for Pikachu to space himself away from Falcon if necessary and help him guarantee a grab in all other cases, so it places Falcon in a bad position no matter how you look at it. QAC -> Nair is pretty useful against Falcon. lol.

Personally, I would just keep jabbing with Falcon as much as possible to keep the pressure on Pikachu and keep him limited on his approaches. It's hard for Pikachu to get around Falcon's jab with things such as Quick Attack (or even trying for a grab), so it's not bad to abuse it if you see it coming. Pikachu will probably try to attack via aerial / thunderbolt (or shock, whatever the neutral+b is) if Falcon is doing something like that, so lol.

It'll just limit Pikachu a small bit. It doesn't shut him down at all, though.

Errr... 25:75, Pikachu. That's probably an accurate ratio. It might even be reasonable to consider him a bigger threat than Meta Knight, as silly as that sounds. Pikachu shuts Falcon down almost as bad as Meta Knight does though, and we have almost nothing relatively useful against him.

I agree.

Except for the beeing more of a threat than MK. MK and pikachu both shut falcon down. But MK does it faster/easier/better.

75-25 Pikachu.

 

[lordhelmet]

Agree with Darky again. I'd lean more to 3-7 but no biggie.

Falcon goes fairly well against Pika grounded and in the air due to his range, but Pikachu still wins in both categories. I'll try to play Artemis or (oh god) Anther next time I see them, I played Pharox and I did really well when I wasn't in a CG. Jumping around and spamming bair/uair works pretty well to not get grabbed.

 

[mlorenzo]

yes i agree, this matchup is hard because of the chain grab, but if we know when it can happen or when it can be stop we can win this matchup. I wish i could play esam and gain some pika experience.

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

i have esam in my area but i'd rather not get *****. But i've played against gallax and i can say it's pretty bad. Most pikas know about the chain grab even though falcon isn't a often played character in tournament. Also i've had some chances to play Kyon lately and maybe it was he wasn't playing the MU the way it's supposed to be played but the peach MU may not be as bad as we think.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

i have esam in my area but i'd rather not get *****. But i've played against gallax and i can say it's pretty bad. Most pikas know about the chain grab even though falcon isn't a often played character in tournament. Also i've had some chances to play Kyon lately and maybe it was he wasn't playing the MU the way it's supposed to be played but the peach MU may not be as bad as we think.

What Character? Falcon or snake?

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

But i didnt mean to double post.... =(

 

[Willz]

Wow double post, surely a ban must be imminent for this person!

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

kyon do you have nothing better to do than name search? And im talking about falcon. yes i know you beat the crap out of my falcon but you're a better player than i am and watching peach play im not sure the MU is that bad. Also so you know next time for the ice climbers i think you can nair out of solo popo's chain grab. I was rooting for you.

 

[†Slader7†]

I usually try to keep Pikachu in the air to avoid grabs but his Nair acts as a combo breaker.
Its not as horrible like MK or ICs but it is bad.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

kyon do you have nothing better to do than name search? And im talking about falcon. yes i know you beat the crap out of my falcon but you're a better player than i am and watching peach play im not sure the MU is that bad. Also so you know next time for the ice climbers i think you can nair out of solo popo's chain grab. I was rooting for you.

I name search for Peach Boards really. But yeah Peach Falcon is bad. side tild and nair beats his game hard. I did try to Nair out but Riddle said something about theres a part where he can grab for abit if its perfect.

 

[Zeallyx]

I name search for Peach Boards really. But yeah Peach Falcon is bad. side tild and nair beats his game hard. I did try to Nair out but Riddle said something about theres a part where he can grab for abit if its perfect.

But we're not discussing peach.

 

[†Slader7†]

Peach mains are conceited.

 

[PZ]

We have our similar to snake's range utilt without most of the disjointedness and game breaking power.....

 

[teluoborg]

Yeah right, Falcon also has as much range as Snake on his Utilt, maybe more. Does that mean anything ?

Now for the Pika matchup, I'll say he's pretty annoying but not terrible because most of his killing options are avoidable/predictable.

 

[Zeallyx]

Yeah right, Falcon also has as much range as Snake on his Utilt, maybe more. Does that mean anything ?

Now for the Pika matchup, I'll say he's pretty annoying but not terrible because most of his killing options are avoidable/predictable.

CG says hi

 

[Red Arremer]

To add in what Darky said, Pikachu also has rather good tools to stop Falcon from camping, what with Thunder Jolt, Thunder and superhigh mobility including QA.

 

[teluoborg]

CG says hi

CG > Usmash/Nair doesn't kill.
Unless you don't know how to DI/momentum or don't see the thunder coming.

Pika's kill options are Usmash, Fsmash, Nair, thunder and Ftilt at high %

 

[Zeallyx]

CG > Usmash/Nair doesn't kill.
Unless you don't know how to DI/momentum or don't see the thunder coming.

Pika's kill options are Usmash, Fsmash, Nair, thunder and Ftilt at high %

If I recall correctly the CG can lead to a stock loss on falcons part.

But even if thats not the case, the CG can deal the damage.

And the moves you listed plus Dsmash can finish falcon off.

And its not like falcon doesnt have a kill/hit problem, so meh.

 

[Player-3]

cg > usmash won't kill except on like halberd knee

and dsmash should never ever ever ever ever kill anyone since its so easy to SDI out of

hell, i was playing a pikachu with falcon for lulz on halberd yesterday at a tournament and i sdied out and under him (we were on the platform) and usmashed him

i gave him the masky smirk

 

[Zeallyx]

cg > usmash won't kill except on like halberd knee

and dsmash should never ever ever ever ever kill anyone since its so easy to SDI out of

hell, i was playing a pikachu with falcon for lulz on halberd yesterday at a tournament and i sdied out and under him (we were on the platform) and usmashed him

i gave him the masky smirk

And point taken.

But it can. granted, with bad di.

But my other point still stands though.

 

[Player-3]

bad di?

even if you don't sdi out it still won't kill till like 170 lmao

 

[lordhelmet]

Match-up ratios are at highest level of play and therefore the Captain Falcon will always SDI dsmash. Hell even I SDI dsmash every single time.

 

[Zeallyx]

bad di?

even if you don't sdi out it still won't kill till like 170 lmao

Match-up ratios are at highest level of play and therefore the Captain Falcon will always SDI dsmash. Hell even I SDI dsmash every single time.

Point taken.

Your ratio helmet&P3?

 

[lordhelmet]

I'm leaning towards 3-7

Unless someone brings up something worth discussing, next character will start tomorrow.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm leaning towards 3-7

Unless someone brings up something worth discussing, next character will start tomorrow.

hmm, I'm thinking 75-25.

Whats your reasoning that its not worse than 7-3?

 

[Player-3]

75-25 sounds right

 

[lordhelmet]

Well seeing that 7-3 would be the equivalent of D3 vs DK...

It's like the Marth discussion really, I just don't think we get ***** as hard as chars like Falco/Olimar/MK. With how I've been playing lately (air-camping and defensive) I haven't been getting grabbed much and I know have a slightly positive outlook to how Falcon can play.

Anyways, the CG is pretty % specific, but he can also fthrow CG to get us to the right %. Outside of the chaingrab Pikachu doesn't really **** us. He's faster and has a good QUAC game, but we can keep our ground with properly spaced bairs and uairs.

But yesh, I don't disagree to 25-75, I just think 3-7 seems more fitting.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It's not difficult for Pikachu to grab or KO Falcon after the chaingrab, so I'm not going to disagree with 25:75. Compared to most of the Pikachu's that I've played who don't know how to camp properly, yeah, 30:70 seems about right - but at a professional level of play, if the Pikachu abused what he has and should be using to level the match-up ...

25:75 is more accurate.

 

[Zeallyx]

Well seeing that 7-3 would be the equivalent of D3 vs DK...

It's like the Marth discussion really, I just don't think we get ***** as hard as chars like Falco/Olimar/MK. With how I've been playing lately (air-camping and defensive) I haven't been getting grabbed much and I know have a slightly positive outlook to how Falcon can play.

Anyways, the CG is pretty % specific, but he can also fthrow CG to get us to the right %. Outside of the chaingrab Pikachu doesn't really **** us. He's faster and has a good QUAC game, but we can keep our ground with properly spaced bairs and uairs.

But yesh, I don't disagree to 25-75, I just think 3-7 seems more fitting.

It's not difficult for Pikachu to grab or KO Falcon after the chaingrab, so I'm not going to disagree with 25:75. Compared to most of the Pikachu's that I've played who don't know how to camp properly, yeah, 30:70 seems about right - but at a professional level of play, if the Pikachu abused what he has and should be using to level the match-up ...

25:75 is more accurate.

I see.

But I agree with darky on this one.