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The Captain Falcon Match-Up General Discussion ~ Week 21 (?)
- Thread starter lordhelmet
- Start date
Lionman
Smash Champion
35-65
dont get grab and dont pick FD
dont get grab and dont pick FD
Aren't we gonna invite the Pika boards or something ?
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Uhh, I guess we could do that xD. Gives me more time to write the other summairs e_e
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
CG 0-110ish. projectile camping, thunder ***** ur recovery, dtilt outspaces most ur shiz. its a gay mu for u guys lol
Lionman
Smash Champion
a Pikachu trying to grab you its really predictable and punishable because his grab´s range is short. Pikachu is a hard match up but is beatable by a good defensive Falcon
Ussi
Smash Legend
Predictability has nothing to do with the MU, that's a player skill
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
So, what is your ratio for this matchup, guys?
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
25:75.
It's terrible for Falcon, but Pikachu doesn't completely limit Falcon - and the chaingrab is, like people have said, extremely predictable - a skillful player should be able to see that and know how to space and avoid Pikachu's chaingrab. Yes, Pikachu owns Falcon in just about every aspect but really now. Assuming it's 0:100 (or even 0:110) is pitiful.
It's terrible for Falcon, but Pikachu doesn't completely limit Falcon - and the chaingrab is, like people have said, extremely predictable - a skillful player should be able to see that and know how to space and avoid Pikachu's chaingrab. Yes, Pikachu owns Falcon in just about every aspect but really now. Assuming it's 0:100 (or even 0:110) is pitiful.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Pika can pretty much get the CG on half the playable stages or so, but even without it, Pika has the advantage due to how easy it is for Pika to combo.
Its 70-30 i would say, Pikachu is exploitable with his short range to an extent so i wouldn't say 75-25
Its 70-30 i would say, Pikachu is exploitable with his short range to an extent so i wouldn't say 75-25
Predictability is a player variable, yes.
Number of options/mixups at a given range is a character variable.
Hence "predictability" can be used in matchup discussions.
So yes, Pika's grab is predictable because that's the only option he has when approaching this close.
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
0_o
um, have u ever played a pika? lol
pika upclose is how we fight, its getting in thats hard. if we are in grab range uve done a poor job at spacing us and deserved to get grabbed, but from that range ftilt utuilt dtilt are all close range options. even jab if it trips sets up for a cg to death.
if u cp us go brinstar or bf tho. most pikas will ban bf cuz platforms are bad for us but unlike falco doing really well there ur lack of a projectile is really just delaying the inevitable =/
edit @ slader, id love to play ur falcon on wifail once school starts haha, no wifi here. i used to main falcon when i started just yeah man this mu is like yeah dumb for u guys lol. u just dont have the tools to win as oppossed to what we have
as far as ratio goes i think us pikas have decided 70-30 cuz of cg projectile better priority moves. the range we have is bad cept dtilt so exploit that, but pikas can space with dtilt and pika sliding so be careful of that
Ussi
Smash Legend
Pikachu isn't DDD where he can live off grabs for every MU, he has other options up close.
Also Pikachu will be camping you with tjolts unless you have the lead in which case Pikachu can handle approaching Falcon who doesn't have uber range and disjoints fairly well.
@FZ, i personally love BF and would ban brinstar. Pikachu has a fair platform game and can put some good pressure though it does leave him more open to be pressured than considered in open space.
Also Pikachu will be camping you with tjolts unless you have the lead in which case Pikachu can handle approaching Falcon who doesn't have uber range and disjoints fairly well.
@FZ, i personally love BF and would ban brinstar. Pikachu has a fair platform game and can put some good pressure though it does leave him more open to be pressured than considered in open space.
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
lol. bf is lots of fun when considering all the qac option def. it makes camping jolts harder and ppl camping platforms is hard cuz of that too. i usually ban bf agaisnt most ppl simply cuz its one of our worst stages along with brinstar. platforms can be fun but i personaly, and most pikas see so too, dont play on levels with platforms cuz it leads to our jolts becoming less effective, our grabs harder to get off, and it makes using t2' harder, and i love that hitbox lol
pika AINT IKE USSI! lol. ikes platform game equals <3
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
lol Zero as much as I want to play you in wifail, I can't, wii johns
But yeah, telu's explanation is pretty much wrong as pika can approach with other attacks (neutral B)
I think its 30-70
Pikachu rack up damage pretty well but I'm not convinced on his kill moves
But yeah, telu's explanation is pretty much wrong as pika can approach with other attacks (neutral B)
I think its 30-70
Pikachu rack up damage pretty well but I'm not convinced on his kill moves
Ussi
Smash Legend
Pikachu does have difficulties killing, all his smashes are unsafe on block and dsmash was the first move to ever be DI'd out when brawl came out so even if it lands it's not usually gonna land its killing hitbox. Utilt to thunder is Pika's best "surprise" kill as in if you didn't expect the utilt, the thunder will end up being a true combo. Usmash is almost always seen coming and almost always a mindgame with thunder. Pika's nair can kill, but is usually stale from combos or OoS punishment. Pika's dair kills around 160%
However, doesn't mean Falcon can't be gimped, still possible for Pikachu to pull off.
However, doesn't mean Falcon can't be gimped, still possible for Pikachu to pull off.
mlorenzo
Smash Journeyman
In my opinion this matchup is 30-60 Pikachu favor. One misconception is that pikachu can camp falcon. Falcon can jump over the jolt or he can just jab the jolt without the need of power sheild and the uair beats the aerial jolt. A good way to space Pikachu is using angle f-tilt. What makes this matchup in pika favor is the chaingrab and the nair as a combo breaker.
Ussi
Smash Legend
i'll agree.. 70:30 or worse is a really bad MU either way.
Also jabbing jolts is stupid, dash PS is too useful with falcon's speed.
Also jabbing jolts is stupid, dash PS is too useful with falcon's speed.
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
yea i agree with that ratio 25-75. with all the tools we have, falcons lack of projectile and bad prioirty makes it really hard for u guys.
earlier it was stated that the grab is "predicatble" but pika can boost pivot out of a standing position to get the grab, as well as his regular pivot so depsite bad range ther are alota mixups that can be done.
25-75, its just that hard def. (also like fix when cg there is no buffer we can just hold l and mash a to regrab, which means scrub pikas can cg too but u shld be able to punk them when they mess up haha)
earlier it was stated that the grab is "predicatble" but pika can boost pivot out of a standing position to get the grab, as well as his regular pivot so depsite bad range ther are alota mixups that can be done.
25-75, its just that hard def. (also like fix when cg there is no buffer we can just hold l and mash a to regrab, which means scrub pikas can cg too but u shld be able to punk them when they mess up haha)
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
...going twice.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
25-75 it is.
I'm starting to think we're under-rating our match-ups though... Falco, Pika, ICs, etc are all harder for Falcon than D3 is for DK? *shrug*
I'm starting to think we're under-rating our match-ups though... Falco, Pika, ICs, etc are all harder for Falcon than D3 is for DK? *shrug*
Falcon is just that bad, yes. =/
No matter what road we take in this, it wont be acurate if you compare it to other matchups.
If we compare them to the DK/DDD matchup, it'll look wrong, but if we adjust them accordingly, it will look wrong when compared to other matchups of our own.
And falcon can pretty much be shut down enough by said characters to net him the ratio.
I still don't think it's as hard as Marth or Falco but whatever, let's go with 25-75, it'll make the Pikas feel very bad if they happen to lose a match against Falcon.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
It's not a big deal, but if we want to take a vote between 3-7 and 25-75 we can
I'm with 3-7...
I'm with 3-7...
Ussi
Smash Legend
My original post said 70-30, Pikachu still has exploitable range issues but the CG kicks the number over to cover up those issues in the long run.
Also to the below: I'd much rather be Pika than Falcon against Marth, i have a projectile to use at least and the ability to gimp better
And lastly, why is the number really important? Shouldn't you like be going over how to approach Pikachu or how to exploit his range issues to help outplay pikachu whose going in thinking this will be a steamroll?
Also to the below: I'd much rather be Pika than Falcon against Marth, i have a projectile to use at least and the ability to gimp better
And lastly, why is the number really important? Shouldn't you like be going over how to approach Pikachu or how to exploit his range issues to help outplay pikachu whose going in thinking this will be a steamroll?
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
3-7 is what the pika boards mu thread has on falcon.
thatd prob be more acurate (some ppls mu threads are so varying lol, i remember when wolves gave themselves better ration v pikas than we did them)
on the bright side at least u can get in marth better than we can, marth is like lolz for us haha
thatd prob be more acurate (some ppls mu threads are so varying lol, i remember when wolves gave themselves better ration v pikas than we did them)
on the bright side at least u can get in marth better than we can, marth is like lolz for us haha
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Then lets go with 30:70, then. A 5 point ratio difference doesn't really matter; all Falcon mains should know the potential threat that Pikachu poses anyway. lol
mlorenzo
Smash Journeyman
agree with darky lol 5 percent doesn't change the matchup lol
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
lol Falcon getting owned by high tiers
7-3 sounds good
7-3 sounds good
PZ
Smash Lord
Hope u guys know pikachu has crappy grab range like ours so getting grabbed easily while spacing ur tilts(preferably dtilt) and probably jab getting grab is highly unlikely but its 35-65 at least.