***** got a lasa and tsjeengrebsAlright, 7-3 Pika's adv. it is.
Who shall we discuss next?
I vote Falco
prediction: 70:30
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The Captain Falcon Match-Up General Discussion ~ Week 21 (?)
- Thread starter lordhelmet
- Start date
prediction: 70:30
Falco's already been discussed, 75-25. The summary's still pending though, so if you guys want to make one you can.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Check the OP before you spew onto your keyboard. Falco's been done and the summary is there.
The next character on the tier list is Lucario, I'd like to discuss him since I've got a good amount of experience with him.
The next character on the tier list is Lucario, I'd like to discuss him since I've got a good amount of experience with him.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Lucario has a whole lot of stuff on us in means of priority, range and racking up damage; but you can get a few percents in and pressure him offstage for easy punishment. Lucario is forced to recover onto the stage if you're edge hogging (unless the stage has an area for him to wall-cling, which isn't smart), meaning you can do several things to punish his onstage recovery cooldown time. I've actually performed a drop down -> 360 Falcon Punch onto the stage lip to hit him numerous times. lol
35:65, imo. 40:60 wouldn't really be pushing it either.
35:65, imo. 40:60 wouldn't really be pushing it either.
PZ
Smash Lord
Alot of characters slide far but falcon's is sexy just a tad slow<.<
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Hey guys, Lucario mainer here.
In the air: Your UAirs are difficult to punish, but in the air that's pretty everything you should be able to consistently hit us with. Maybbeeee some BAirs, but those are risky. RAR UAir might be the best way to hit Lucario in the air for Falcon.
Approaching Lucario horizontally in the air is really hard for Falcon because of our disjointedness.
On the ground: Um... Grab us? If we DI right I am pretty sure we can NAir you between your second and third hit of the Gentleman or we could just DI up and DAir.
Your UTilt has those wtf hitboxes and range that will surprise some Lucarios.
Falcon Kick will punish a whiffed laggy move easily.
lordhelmet once PAWNCHED me as he read my ledgeroll
Lucario's disjointedness on his Jab really prevents Falcon from doing much up close. Your Jab is quicker than everything we have though.
Since Falcon is a large target watch out for our UTilt if you go running around.
Don't try to force a kill on us because its pretty obvious when you're gonna DSmash, Knee, FSmash, etc.
If we try to do a shorthop with two FAirs and whiff the second you might be able to punish us with a Salmon Smash.
Try to keep Lucario pressured, so that we do not have a chance to charge up our Aura Sphere.
Its really hard for Falcon in this MU. Since Falcon is sorta underused not too many Lucarios may be keen on this particular MU, but...
I'd say its 65:35 or 70:30 Lucario's favor.
Falcon's true saving grace in this MU is his speed.
Lucarios should be stage striking BF, so that you don't UAir us all day. I prefer fighting Falcon on flat stages, but that could just be me. Heck, I don't even like fighting Falcon on Yoshis because of UAir >.>
In the air: Your UAirs are difficult to punish, but in the air that's pretty everything you should be able to consistently hit us with. Maybbeeee some BAirs, but those are risky. RAR UAir might be the best way to hit Lucario in the air for Falcon.
Approaching Lucario horizontally in the air is really hard for Falcon because of our disjointedness.
On the ground: Um... Grab us? If we DI right I am pretty sure we can NAir you between your second and third hit of the Gentleman or we could just DI up and DAir.
Your UTilt has those wtf hitboxes and range that will surprise some Lucarios.
Falcon Kick will punish a whiffed laggy move easily.
lordhelmet once PAWNCHED me as he read my ledgeroll
on WiFi.
Lucario's disjointedness on his Jab really prevents Falcon from doing much up close. Your Jab is quicker than everything we have though.
Since Falcon is a large target watch out for our UTilt if you go running around.
Don't try to force a kill on us because its pretty obvious when you're gonna DSmash, Knee, FSmash, etc.
If we try to do a shorthop with two FAirs and whiff the second you might be able to punish us with a Salmon Smash.
Try to keep Lucario pressured, so that we do not have a chance to charge up our Aura Sphere.
Its really hard for Falcon in this MU. Since Falcon is sorta underused not too many Lucarios may be keen on this particular MU, but...
I'd say its 65:35 or 70:30 Lucario's favor.
Falcon's true saving grace in this MU is his speed.
Lucarios should be stage striking BF, so that you don't UAir us all day. I prefer fighting Falcon on flat stages, but that could just be me. Heck, I don't even like fighting Falcon on Yoshis because of UAir >.>
Seconded .
lordhelmet
Smash Master
35-65 really guys? That's acceptable but I feel it's 4-6, I'll right more in a bit when I don't feel like 500 pounds of bird ****
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Come to my house tomorrow and I'll show you why it's 65-35 or 70_30
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Uair is definitely Falcon's best move in the match-up, then I would say Bair because of it's range and pressure working like... really well against Lucario; since he punishes us for just about everything else. The thing is, Lucario is harder to smack around in the air due to his Dair. It has multiple hitboxes (IIRC, it registers as three, may be wrong) and stops him in place. That makes Uair pressuring a bit more difficult on him than most characters, but still not a huge problem.
I think Lucario has a side+b -> repeat -> move string on us from 0% too, could be wrong but I think he can guarantee over 40% with it if done right.
I'm still leaning on 35:65.
I think Lucario has a side+b -> repeat -> move string on us from 0% too, could be wrong but I think he can guarantee over 40% with it if done right.
I'm still leaning on 35:65.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Can't unless Demp is going xDCome to my house tomorrow and I'll show you why it's 65-35 or 70_30
And last time we played (offline) we went fairly close and I was only going about 80%
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Myth you're forgetting we can uthrow cg them into follow ups. *Uses Extreme Speed*
Tony T
Smash Ace
lol hello another Lucario Mainer here argh too late MTI was here before me lol.
I'm going to cough out a ratio for you guys *coughs* 65:35 max and I faced alot of CF's on AIB and I only lost to two of them one was rolling around like hell and had a good defense the other was just that good lol.
I'm going to cough out a ratio for you guys *coughs* 65:35 max and I faced alot of CF's on AIB and I only lost to two of them one was rolling around like hell and had a good defense the other was just that good lol.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Uthrow is DIable, I'll mention that if I type up a "summary".
35-65 is agreeable. Colored part was when I laughed btw.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Lucario's Uthrow chaingrab is legit. I've only played one Lucario that's used it against me with perfect timing, but I wasn't able to avoid it until like... 50%? I dunno. I tried mashing just about everything, nothing seemed to work. rofl
You can jump out of the uthrow cg at like 28% or earlier iirc.
imo the matchup is like 60:40. It's really not that bad for Falcon...
Forcepalm chaingrab works on idiots. If he hits you with sideB, you should just mash out of it like a normal grab.
sInfinity is right that Falcon's best attributes (as usual) are his uair, speed, and grab, with a side of bair.
I haven't fought a Falcon in a long while, but it didn't feel all that easy when I have. Maybe it's just because I'm a campy grounded player and I kept getting chased around the stage. He wouldn't leave me alone so I could charge my aura sphere and prep my long-range attacks as usual, since all of Luc's ranged attacks are a bit on the slow side...
Just play like Ally does and you'll be fine.
imo the matchup is like 60:40. It's really not that bad for Falcon...
Forcepalm chaingrab works on idiots. If he hits you with sideB, you should just mash out of it like a normal grab.
sInfinity is right that Falcon's best attributes (as usual) are his uair, speed, and grab, with a side of bair.
I haven't fought a Falcon in a long while, but it didn't feel all that easy when I have. Maybe it's just because I'm a campy grounded player and I kept getting chased around the stage. He wouldn't leave me alone so I could charge my aura sphere and prep my long-range attacks as usual, since all of Luc's ranged attacks are a bit on the slow side...
Just play like Ally does and you'll be fine.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Perhaps it was due to staleness? I dunno. I just know I was getting chaingrab ***** until like... 35%, then into some stupid follow-ups. It's ridiculously strict though. lol
Also, <3 Utsuho.
Also, <3 Utsuho.
You probably goofed up jumping or something. Try doing a DJ airdodge if it helps.
Also Utsuho is amazing. We should be friends.
What Darky said : Lucario's Dair is very annoying here because of all the fast lingering disjointed hitbox + momentum stoping stuff. It counters well Falcon's Uair and can be mixed up with Fair for super effectiveness.
Nothing more to say, I hope I'll find good Lucarios at BBI this week end.
PS : <3 Utsuho too but she raeps me hard in soku :O
Nothing more to say, I hope I'll find good Lucarios at BBI this week end.
PS : <3 Utsuho too but she raeps me hard in soku :O
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Darky you DI uthrow away and he can't forcepalm you.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
I've only had the uthrow chain used on me about three times. One of which, the Lucario got about 4-5 throws on me, the other time, I got out without much difficult. I was guessing that maybe pivot grabbing reassured the next grab, but I could be mistaken. Like I said, I've only had it used on me successfully one other time because the timing is so strict.
I probably did mess up that one time though, never bothered looking into it any further. If Lucario can regrab us, wouldn't it be just as easy for him to Utilt or Jab -> Grab when we're coming back down within what would be considered his grab range? With that kind of potential, I'm sure he's got more guaranteed movestrings that focus around the Uthrow chain.
I probably did mess up that one time though, never bothered looking into it any further. If Lucario can regrab us, wouldn't it be just as easy for him to Utilt or Jab -> Grab when we're coming back down within what would be considered his grab range? With that kind of potential, I'm sure he's got more guaranteed movestrings that focus around the Uthrow chain.
Tony T
Smash Ace
lol I see why.
Oh wow there are Falcon mains who play soku too? <3
Maybe I should hang out here more often.
But you need to remember about the uthrow chain is that it really doesn't do that much damage at all, and it has to be started around or near 0, so even if it worked past 35 or so, it's really not a big factor in the matchup because uthrow doesn't have any guaranteed followups. If he does chain it into Utilt or jab, you can just SDI them. It's a small window for okay damage on a retardedly heavy character so it doesn't even matter much, and can only be used once a stock. I really don't think it's that big of a deal if Falcon can just shrug it off so easily...
Funny thing about Lucario's dair. It has a bit of "Dead time" after the hitboxes that makes it look like he can move freely, but he really can't. It's why everyone can shieldgrab it easily and why it can be punished in the air if they do it early (which many mediocre Lucario players do).
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
In terms of usefulness, Lucario could probably just utilt a few times from 0% to equal that chaingrab amount. Falcon's a fastfaller, so he's subjected to a lot of combos from most of the cast until he passes 35-40%, so I'm sure there's other useful move strings against him that we're simply overlooking at the moment.
Moving off that part, we've got Falcon's decent punishment options for when Lucario's forced to recover onto the stage from an edge hog; Falcon's uair and bair being useful for pressuring Lucario and for the Falcon player to be aware that Lucario's dair can punish him if he doesn't time his aerial (uair, most specifically) properly.
What else? Anything decent in terms of grab releasing for either character?
Doubt it, but I haven't looked into it personally.
Moving off that part, we've got Falcon's decent punishment options for when Lucario's forced to recover onto the stage from an edge hog; Falcon's uair and bair being useful for pressuring Lucario and for the Falcon player to be aware that Lucario's dair can punish him if he doesn't time his aerial (uair, most specifically) properly.
What else? Anything decent in terms of grab releasing for either character?
Doubt it, but I haven't looked into it personally.
Speaking of grab release, funny thing about Lucario's Extremespeed that probably won't come into play. If you grab him at ANY point after he uses his up B, including during fallspecial or after a wallcling, he doesn't regain his Up B after an air release. You can also footstool him out of his wallcling for the same effect. Note that he keeps his jump if he for some dumb reason used his Up B first. :V
Also, I remember Rule 34 once told me something about grab release to uair but I never got around to testing that myself.
Also, I remember Rule 34 once told me something about grab release to uair but I never got around to testing that myself.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
No wonder I failed against Lucario
Good stuff guys, I never had this match up down so its good to see what works and what doesn't
£µ(4r10 ?
Indeed. =D
Thread ruined.
Willz
Smash Master
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Kitamerby is right.
Yung Mei
Where all da hot anime moms at
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