The Botanical Gardens of the Mushroom Kingdom

[GimR]

Unless they have very good reaction time.....

okay, so you float cancel a F-air, right when it hits you let go of float so the hitbox doesn't come out. You immediately land. From the point where the hit box doesn't come and you land on the ground is about 4 frames. You buffered a grab so that's an extra 6. So your opponent has 10 frames to react. That's 1/6th of a second which is 125 milliseconds. Average reaction time is some where around 215 milliseconds. Amazing reaction times is some where around 160 milliseconds. It is basically impossible to react to this

 

[Nordal]

You forgot the part where Peach's grab range is ***, and anyone trying to punish with an OoS aerial would **** that.

 

[Thebest1pj]

okay, so you float cancel a F-air, right when it hits you let go of float so the hitbox doesn't come out. You immediately land. From the point where the hit box doesn't come and you land on the ground is about 4 frames. You buffered a grab so that's an extra 6. So your opponent has 10 frames to react. That's 1/6th of a second which is 125 milliseconds. Average reaction time is some where around 215 milliseconds. Amazing reaction times is some where around 160 milliseconds. It is basically impossible to react to this

Throw a bomb up ,throw a rang backwards, hold shield, get grabbed by peach and watch her get hit by everything returning.

Where is your god now?

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Don't grab. /=

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

When I say react fast I mean someone like an mk player. They just shuttle the approaching fair is all. The mix up factor is a good thought though.

 

[Zwarm]

It's a really good mix up though. Come at some one with F-air. Cancel the float so the F-air plays out but the hit box does not come out. Your opponent will certainly shield in preparation for the F-air. Grab your opponent.

I've done this before to bait a roll, then I just fsmashed behind me.

 

[GimR]

uuuuuugggghhhh theory craft peeps are so annoying. Watch matches of the best players playing a good peach. How many times did the player with good OOS options let the Peach hit their shield with F-air? Almost every time.

 

[Praxis]

uuuuuugggghhhh theory craft peeps are so annoying. Watch matches of the best players playing a good peach. How many times did the player with good OOS options let the Peach hit their shield with F-air? Almost every time.

That's because the fair was tippered.

Try hitting people with fair at point blank and see what happens. They'll just hit you first during the startup.

 

[Nordal]

uuuuuugggghhhh theory craft peeps are so annoying. Watch matches of the best players playing a good peach. How many times did the player with good OOS options let the Peach hit their shield with F-air? Almost every time.

Do you really think people don't realize when Fair is poorly space (which it would have to be in your case if Peach's grab with it's terrible range were to be landed).

That's because the fair was tippered.

Try hitting people with fair at point blank and see what happens. They'll just hit you first during the startup.

This.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Sorry rock...... what I said was more of a question.

 

[Thebest1pj]

uuuuuugggghhhh theory craft peeps are so annoying. Watch matches of the best players playing a good peach. How many times did the player with good OOS options let the Peach hit their shield with F-air? Almost every time.

Originally Posted by God-is-my-Rock
okay, so you float cancel a F-air, right when it hits you let go of float so the hitbox doesn't come out. You immediately land. From the point where the hit box doesn't come and you land on the ground is about 4 frames. You buffered a grab so that's an extra 6. So your opponent has 10 frames to react. That's 1/6th of a second which is 125 milliseconds. Average reaction time is some where around 215 milliseconds. Amazing reaction times is some where around 160 milliseconds. It is basically impossible to react to this



think about it for a second it will come to you.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

That's because the fair was tippered.

Try hitting people with fair at point blank and see what happens. They'll just hit you first during the startup.

I was thinking this, but he's smarter then I am.

Do you really think people don't realize when Fair is poorly space (which it would have to be in your case if Peach's grab with it's terrible range were to be landed).

Isn't her grab at her elbow or something?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So that explains it...lol

Regardless of whether this is useful or not, you say that you have to cancel the float during the time Fair's hitbox is out
Looking at Fair's frame data...

Duration: 54
Hits on Frame: 16 (max range @ 17)
Hitbox Duration: 16-19 (4)
Aerial Cooldown: 35
Landing Lag: 22
Autocancels on Frame: 20

...
Wait hang on, I'm now a tad confused - if Fair autocancels on Frame 20, then why when you're Ground Floating and cancel the Float during the hitbox don't you suffer from landing lag? How did you get this to work on whilst you were Ground Floating - I don't know how many frames it takes for Peach to 'land' after cancelling a Ground Float

This sounds pretty tricky to do intentionally - you've only got 4 frames in which you can do this

 

[Razmakazi]

Originally Posted by God-is-my-Rock
okay, so you float cancel a F-air, right when it hits you let go of float so the hitbox doesn't come out. You immediately land. From the point where the hit box doesn't come and you land on the ground is about 4 frames. You buffered a grab so that's an extra 6. So your opponent has 10 frames to react. That's 1/6th of a second which is 125 milliseconds. Average reaction time is some where around 215 milliseconds. Amazing reaction times is some where around 160 milliseconds. It is basically impossible to react to this



think about it for a second it will come to you.

that's not rly theorycraft.

all he's saying is that if you buffer then it's hella hard to react to. usually ppl w/ good oos options react to fair hitting the shield. the shield is never hit, there's nothing to rly react too coz peeps almost always wait for something to hit their shield.

so yeah, it's not like super intense theorycraft. gimr's stuff appears to be a pretty practical mix-up.

 

[GimR]

That's because the fair was tippered.

Try hitting people with fair at point blank and see what happens. They'll just hit you first during the startup.

so tipper F-air(Cancel the hit box), and buffer a dash grab which also comes out in 6 frames.

Originally Posted by God-is-my-Rock
okay, so you float cancel a F-air, right when it hits you let go of float so the hitbox doesn't come out. You immediately land. From the point where the hit box doesn't come and you land on the ground is about 4 frames. You buffered a grab so that's an extra 6. So your opponent has 10 frames to react. That's 1/6th of a second which is 125 milliseconds. Average reaction time is some where around 215 milliseconds. Amazing reaction times is some where around 160 milliseconds. It is basically impossible to react to this



think about it for a second it will come to you.

The thing is, I'm stating facts. When most people make theorycraft(their's nothing wrong with it as long as you are using as a way to test things) they never consider things like reaction time. When I posted my vid on falco's frame trap a bunch of people told me MK mains were just going to Up-B you before the laser came out. I mentioned that it's hard to react to and they just brushed me off. since then I've picked up Falco and I get the laser trap at least 4 times a match even against good MK mains. I guess I did come off a bit rash and I'll apologize for that but Peach mains should still consider doing this since it;s a really good mix up

that's not rly theorycraft.

all he's saying is that if you buffer then it's hella hard to react to. usually ppl w/ good oos options react to fair hitting the shield. the shield is never hit, there's nothing to rly react too coz peeps almost always wait for something to hit their shield.

so yeah, it's not like super intense theorycraft. gimr's stuff appears to be a pretty practical mix-up.

exactly




@Rick: you're right my frames were a bit off.

@Kyon: sorry if I was a bit harsh

 

[stingers]

i mean its a good mixup but why not just ac fair on their shield and grab after? i dont get how this is better

 

[GimR]

i mean its a good mixup but why not just ac fair on their shield and grab after? i dont get how this is better

because most players wait for the f-air to hit their shield(Out of fear) and then they react during the shield lag frames. If there are not shield lag frames there's no way to react

 

[stingers]

yea true. learning the timing for this might be counterproductive if u start doing it on accident when meaning to actually ac fair though! since the motions are super similar

 

[GimR]

yea true. learning the timing for this might be counterproductive if u start doing it on accident when meaning to actually ac fair though! since the motions are super similar

true, but like Rick said, you can't do this if you you're doing an instant float F-air because you don't let go of float until after the F-air has already hit in that case.



guys, i think I'm doing this weeks episode of Metagame Minute on Peach(Not on this tech). Wadda ya think?

 

[stingers]

i fully support that 8]

and maybe I just suck but I almost never instant float fair.

i think its better to just sh and float at that height cuz it can shieldpoke.

proper peach mains, lemee know. i just picked this char up

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

@GIMR - I wasn't actually questioning whether your frames were off or not xD I'm just a bit confused because hotgarbage's frame data says the hitbox is out frame 16-19 BUT it also says that Fair autocancels on Frame 20...which I would assume to mean that if you hit the ground during frames 16-19 i.e. before frame 20, you'd get that nasty landing lag...
...but that can't be the case because otherwise the whole 'fake fair' to grab thing you're talking about wouldn't be plausible

I know you can autocancel Fair way before the hitbox even comes out but can you do it whilst the hitbox is out already?

Would you mind posting a frame by frame run through of what you do when performing this?I'm just curious that's all

...or is this another one of your Metagame a Minute thingies?

Edit:

true, but like Rick said, you can't do this if you you're doing an instant float F-air because you don't let go of float until after the F-air has already hit in that case.



guys, i think I'm doing this weeks episode of Metagame Minute on Peach(Not on this tech). Wadda ya think?

Rofl completely ninja'ed

Okey dokey - pull out another Bair trap that's 100 times easier to set up pretty please :>

 

[GimR]

Okey dokey - pull out another Bair trap that's 100 times easier to set up pretty please :>

I can't promise it will be easy

 

[stingers]

but is it guaranteed?

 

[GimR]

but is it guaranteed?

define guaranteed

 

[stingers]

lol
well im still quite interested 8]

 

[Esca]

think about it for a second it will come to you.

Okay I love you.

 

[Thebest1pj]

okay i love you.

<33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

 

[Thebest1pj]

that's not rly theorycraft.

all he's saying is that if you buffer then it's hella hard to react to. usually ppl w/ good oos options react to fair hitting the shield. the shield is never hit, there's nothing to rly react too coz peeps almost always wait for something to hit their shield.

so yeah, it's not like super intense theorycraft. gimr's stuff appears to be a pretty practical mix-up.

Friends don't quote other friends post and respond in such a manner.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Friends don't quote other friends post and respond in such a manner.

eraserhead . . . . really?

 

[z00ted]

guys, i think I'm doing this weeks episode of Metagame Minute on Peach(Not on this tech). Wadda ya think?

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

please teach me something I already dont know!!!

 

[Razmakazi]

yeah go for it gimr, i'd appreciate it, i can use all i get my hands on in my quest to topple socal lol

 

[Zwarm]

The Metagame Minute episodes are awesome. I fully support a Peach episode.

and maybe I just suck but I almost never instant float fair.

i think its better to just sh and float at that height cuz it can shieldpoke.

proper peach mains, lemee know. i just picked this char up

It depends on the situation, but being able to instant float fair has it's uses, like catching people airdodging into the stage, and hitting people off stage that are still at stage height, that sorta thing. Either way, it's a nice mixup if you don't want to SH float -> fair every time.

I don't know what "proper Peach main" means exactly, but I've been maining her for almost 6 months now, so I guess I could be considered proper, so I'm answering this. xD

 

[Haptic]

Haven't been back playing Peach for that long yet, and I've forgotten some of the terminology. I assume an instant float fair is jumping and immediately floating so that you are just off the ground and putting a fair out from there?

 

[z00ted]

Yeah, Haptic.

I want to announce that my Combo Video, "Precision" will most likely be released by the end of this week. Both Neon and myself (mainly Neon), have been putting in enormous amounts of time and effort in creating it and I'm extremely grateful and proud of all the talent and work that Neon has put into starting it from scratch.

It will feature very different gameplay than that of the "standard" Peach, extremely quick and precise combos, rigid gameplay and great reads.

I'm hoping for it topple over Excel Zero's title of "Best Peach Combo Video", but we will just have to wait and see!

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Excel has a combo video?

 

[GimR]

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

please teach me something I already dont know!!!

It's extremely technical. I don't even know if people will be able to pull it off.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I'm tired....... and I still have more gay days to complete. I may even skip this weeks tournament for gay day at Meta Knight.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I have decided that, in the peach thread, this is what gets reactions:

 

[Airgemini]

It also gets users banned.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Discrimination.