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The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

Yoshara

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Eh, at the least he is no Bang, and he still has problems without curse and on the defense, plus he still looks free for Lambda.

P.S. Arakune's highest damage appears to be 7-8K right now.

Edit: I would post the link, but unfortunately Dustloop appears to be down right now. If it does come back up soon, it was the "BBCS2: Summary & Impressions" thread.
 

Lythium

underachiever
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Sorry, can I see the link to Stunedge's impressions?
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10715-BBCS2-Summary-amp-Impressions

Eh, at the least he is no Bang, and he still has problems without curse and on the defense, plus he still looks free for Lambda.

P.S. Arakune's highest damage appears to be 7-8K right now.

Oh, I know that Arakune is pretty free until he gets curse, especially against zoners.

But still.

Also, it's not like the curse loop is hard to do.
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
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I wonder how the Rachel and Arakune matchup is. It wasn't bad before due to projectiles and being able to frog and 3C him after 5CC. WIth the 5CC change, hopefully it won't be that bad.
 

Lythium

underachiever
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I don't think anything match-up related will change because of combos, unless it really affects Rachel's damage potential.

I'm sure it will be fine. :)
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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P.S. Arakune's highest damage appears to be 7-8K right now.
Oh is that all? Bah, that's nothing to worry about.

Thanks!

Also, it's not like the curse loop is hard to do.
Here's a guide do the curse loop.

Get a curse.
Hit confirm.
Do something that causes you to press the C button.
Do something that causes you to press the D button.
Repeat the previous 2 steps until you run out of curse meter.
End with 236236D 5D 6A 5B j.D.

Congratulations, you're now an Arakune player!
 

Yoshara

Smash Lord
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Fun thing about the new Arakune is not only does he have same move proration on some moves, making it so he can't do his old wheel loop without it prorating to hell and back, but if you can combo him, keep him in a blockstring, or throw out something with a long super freeze during his curse, it will still drain pretty quickly.

P.S. I do find Arakune to be annoying, but that is mainly because I don't know the match up.
 

Lythium

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@Gates: No problem. And yep, you nailed it. Except you don't even have to get the attack to hit.

-_-

@Yoshara: So, if you play Makoto, use BBS whenever you have meter, amirite? :3c
 

Lore

Infinite Gravity
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Man, I love playing as Arakune.

Anyway, I played a bit more online, and I'm definitely improving. I wiped out a semi-decent Ragna main, and I played some close matches against a good Arakune and Valkenhayne main.

Considering the fact that those matches were my first against Valky, I think that I did decent.
 

DaiAndOh

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Who gives a rats *** if someone tier *****s? They have the right to play with any character they want for any reason they want.

You know who tier *****s? Tokido. He's also way better then any of you here (especially Dacidbro) at fighters.

It's legit. To me it's no different than if someone picked up a character because they were easy/simple to play.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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Tokido doesn't tier *****, top tiers ***** Tokido.



But seriously, everything you just said is correct and I completely agree with you. I'm glad somebody finally said it.
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
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I agree too. Also, it seems that people are starting to mix tier ****ing and bandwagoning while they're two different things.

But did I miss a post or something about someone complaining how people go for top tier?
 

Zero_Gamer

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I don't care about tier *****s. I am one too (accidentally maining god tiers, yeah!), after all.

I'll still complain about the characters and call you a pack of cigarettes for using them and want to punch the programmers in the genitals, though, even if my char is better.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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I'll still complain about the characters and call you a pack of cigarettes for using them and want to punch the programmers in the genitals, though, even if my char is better.
Zero, you just complain about anything.

If they made a fighting game that was literally PERFECT from a balance perspective, you'd complain about the graphics and the soundtrack.

I liked the part in the third game where Platinum got nailed.

:)
ZING.
 

Scamp

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Not really sure why Accent Core is an example of a game being well balanced. Also Millia does not beat Eddie.


Anyway, people care about tier *****s because they don't like to feel inadequate when they lose. Same thing applies to "cheap" tactics and lame counterpicks. It's simply a method of improving oneself through the self-illusion that there is honor in handicapping yourself.


Judging from the vids I've seen (and this is an incredibly preliminary opinion) I don't think Platinum is going to be all that good. I don't think her mixups are strong enough to supplement her zoning/projectile game.
 

Yoshara

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It is a example of great balance because even though the cast is drastically different pretty much every character is considered a viable choice, and while some characters are better than most (Eddie, Testament), it's not a gamebreaker and not even too much of a problem.
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
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Judging from the vids I've seen (and this is an incredibly preliminary opinion) I don't think Platinum is going to be all that good. I don't think her mixups are strong enough to supplement her zoning/projectile game.
I agree about her mixups not being all that strong since she has only one overhead that isn't great. At least she has a command grab, so I guess that's something. Luckily she still looks fun and has decent corner combos so far.

 

Scamp

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It is a example of great balance because even though the cast is drastically different pretty much every character is considered a viable choice, and while some characters are better than most (Eddie, Testament), it's not a gamebreaker and not even too much of a problem.
I think it's a better example of balance in diversity rather than balance overall. MvC3 heads take note!

But overall I disagree with the game being well balanced. Just decently so. Also I think Slash was more balanced than AC, but less fun.


I agree about her mixups not being all that strong since she has only one overhead that isn't great. At least she has a command grab, so I guess that's something. Luckily she still looks fun and has decent corner combos so far.

She definitely still looks fun but without strong mixups (and her command grab not doing fear-inducing damage) it really looks like she's going to be a game of: "Gee, I hope my opponent likes to run into my projectiles." I personally like doing that, as it turns out, but I'm not expecting to be particularly effective with it.
 

SuSa

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Not really sure why Accent Core is an example of a game being well balanced. Also Millia does not beat Eddie.


Anyway, people care about tier *****s because they don't like to feel inadequate when they lose. Same thing applies to "cheap" tactics and lame counterpicks. It's simply a method of improving oneself through the self-illusion that there is honor in handicapping yourself.


Judging from the vids I've seen (and this is an incredibly preliminary opinion) I don't think Platinum is going to be all that good. I don't think her mixups are strong enough to supplement her zoning/projectile game.
My definition of tier ***** must be ****ed.

What I hate is a person who beats me 1 round using a top tier character. I demolish them in a ditto. They can't play any other character worth **** and they are absolute trash at the game but manage to get by simply by tier whoring when a good portion of the cast simply cannot handle that character. (Talking Mid/High level play vs Mid/Low level play where the Mid/Low wins simply out of tier whoring.) /definition of tier whoring (using a top tier to win because you're garbage at the game but your character is just that good that it usually makes up for it)

However from my experience from CT, there is no such thing as tier whoring in BB. Same with most of what I've seen and watched and...yeah...
 

Yoshara

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I think it's a better example of balance in diversity rather than balance overall. MvC3 heads take note!

But overall I disagree with the game being well balanced. Just decently so. Also I think Slash was more balanced than AC, but less fun.
Well what is your problem with the balance in AC?

 

Scamp

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My definition of tier ***** must be ****ed.

What I hate is a person who beats me 1 round using a top tier character. I demolish them in a ditto. They can't play any other character worth **** and they are absolute trash at the game but manage to get by simply by tier whoring when a good portion of the cast simply cannot handle that character. (Talking Mid/High level play vs Mid/Low level play where the Mid/Low wins simply out of tier whoring.) /definition of tier whoring (using a top tier to win because you're garbage at the game but your character is just that good that it usually makes up for it)

However from my experience from CT, there is no such thing as tier whoring in BB. Same with most of what I've seen and watched and...yeah...
Well there are multiple definitions for tier whoring. Often it's the definition you stated but the player does the same thing over multiple games. If it's just one game the player might just happen to like to play a top tier character. But they'll still get called names even if that's the case.

Tier whoring also tends to be associated with counterpicking. You might see someone lose with their favorite character then counterpick with someone who's top-tier.

I think tier whoring is less common in BB because the characters are, in general, harder to learn completely than, say, Street Fighter. Thus, even if someone tries to be good just by virtue of their character being good it's much less effective than a simpler game.


Also note that beating someone in a ditto doesn't necessarily mean they're trash or bad with the character, even if you hardly play that character. I find that most people are uncomfortable when they have to play dittos in tourney and try to avoid the matchup as much as possible. I know it's the fairest matchup but it's also the one people tend to practice the lease.


Well what is your problem with the balance in AC?
Besides the huge amount of lopsided matchups (which goes with the character diversity) I feel the top tiers (especially Eddie. Guy doesn't have any bad matchups) are more apart from the general cast than people care to admit.

Essentially the game seems to be balanced around the fact that everyone can do large amounts of damage, so anyone can have a chance against anyone by only having to capitalize on a small number of advantages/situations in order to win.
 

Rutger

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DaiAndOh

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Not really sure why Accent Core is an example of a game being well balanced. Also Millia does not beat Eddie.
No one beats Eddie. But Millia is one his worst, if not a 5-5 matchup.

Besides the huge amount of lopsided matchups (which goes with the character diversity) I feel the top tiers (especially Eddie. Guy doesn't have any bad matchups) are more apart from the general cast than people care to admit.

Essentially the game seems to be balanced around the fact that everyone can do large amounts of damage, so anyone can have a chance against anyone by only having to capitalize on a small number of advantages/situations in order to win.
Lopsided matchups? Only one I can name is Eddie Potemkin....some may argue Axl Anji, which I guess could be true, but Eddie Potemkin is the worst matchup by far....and that's 7-3 tops. The game is a whole bunch of 6-4's.

And the second paragraph is mostly true but...I wouldn't exactly call Ky, Baiken, or to a lesser extent Millia, Chipp, or Bridget huge damage...who cares if it's like that anyway? GGXXAC is more balanced than at least 90% of fighting games in history, and is amazingly diverse as we all agree. EVERY character is viable, I have seen the worst characters in the game beat the top tiers in high level play before my eyes.
 

Scamp

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No one beats Eddie. But Millia is one his worst, if not a 5-5 matchup.

Lopsided matchups? Only one I can name is Eddie Potemkin....some may argue Axl Anji, which I guess could be true, but Eddie Potemkin is the worst matchup by far....and that's 7-3 tops. The game is a whole bunch of 6-4's.

And the second paragraph is mostly true but...I wouldn't exactly call Ky, Baiken, or to a lesser extent Millia, Chipp, or Bridget huge damage...who cares if it's like that anyway? GGXXAC is more balanced than at least 90% of fighting games in history, and is amazingly diverse as we all agree. EVERY character is viable, I have seen the worst characters in the game beat the top tiers in high level play before my eyes.
I don't really want to get into an extended argument on this since this is a Blazblue thread and arguing about Guilty Gear is usually only slighty related. So I'll just say a few things.

Saying pointless things like 90 percent is silly. Also a whole bunch of 6-4s is not balanced. And there are more 7-3 than you list IMO. Not going to get into all that, though.

But your last statement is pretty bad, and makes me want to discard everything you say. Do you know what a 7-3 matchup means? It means that (theoretically) with players of equal skill one character will win 7 times out of 10. This means, despite a horrible matchup the weaker character will still win 3 times.

In other words, I've seen Rachel players beat Litchi players at a high level of play in CS. Not before my eyes, but on youtube. Does that mean that Rachel is viable? I've seen a Hakan beat Daigo in SSF4. Is Hakan now viable?
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
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Dittos are always awkward to face. Especially Rachel dittos for me.

I remember a person complaining that I kept using Rachel in BBCT. He kept complaining over the mic telling me I should use a different character.
It's not my fault that back in CT, Rachel was the only one I could really use and that she was top tier.

Some CS2 Rachel vids for you, Minato:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8UdEtN9lo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUUhJlu2_oo

The quality isn't so great on the second one, unfortunately.
Ah, thanks. Looks like I'm going to be relearning some combos again.
And her wind is so fast. Same goes for her pumpkin. It looks almost like CT's pumpkin.

 

DaiAndOh

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I don't really want to get into an extended argument on this since this is a Blazblue thread and arguing about Guilty Gear is usually only slighty related. So I'll just say a few things.

Saying pointless things like 90 percent is silly. Also a whole bunch of 6-4s is not balanced. And there are more 7-3 than you list IMO. Not going to get into all that, though.

But your last statement is pretty bad, and makes me want to discard everything you say. Do you know what a 7-3 matchup means? It means that (theoretically) with players of equal skill one character will win 7 times out of 10. This means, despite a horrible matchup the weaker character will still win 3 times.

In other words, I've seen Rachel players beat Litchi players at a high level of play in CS. Not before my eyes, but on youtube. Does that mean that Rachel is viable? I've seen a Hakan beat Daigo in SSF4. Is Hakan now viable?
Just to cover the last statement, which seems to trouble you the most....if the skill levels were among a high level of play, then yes, it does mean that the character is viable.

Will they have to work multiple times harder (as is the case with many of these characters) to produce anything near the level of their matchup? Yes. But it does mean there is viability among it.

Though if 6-4's aren't balanced to you, then nothing ever made will ever be decently balanced I suppose.
 
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