The Best Players.

[P.C. Jona]

^

he didnt beat ss

he ***** ss

 

[strawhats]

i was just about to say that...he also gave scar the business at genesis in that last game.

id love to see axe vs. hbox
pika vs. jiggz

 

[forward]

And well a lot of it is just speculation really until things do happen. Amsah hasn't come back since PP has improved. Axe hasn't fought PP since he improved. Lucky hasn't played him in tournament either not to mention that MM I already said.


Look at Axe's bracket at Apex, ALL space animals literally. Who he beat was still definitely impressive but how do we know there aren't other people who can still beat Axe? He's yet to beat Linguini, Wobbles might still be able to beat him, Sheik players such as Tope might be able to beat him.

Your first paragraph states that PP... actually, it doesn't state anything other than people who have not played PP since he improved. I'm not sure what your point is.

For the second paragraph you state there are people who may still be able to beat Axe. This is true. These players may beat Axe. I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make about Axe fighting only spacies at Apex. In any case, to state that Axe may lose to players he previously lost to can also be applied to PP. PP may lose to players he has lost to. This is irrelevant.

And either way PP beating Hbox doesn't have to give proof for PP being above everyone else between Hbox and PP because that's not even what I said. All it has to do is weigh enough for something that other players who you put above him that we disagree about can or cannot do. Jman got 6-0ed by Hbox last they played and Axe has never played him but I'll let you speculate that one for yourself.

I'm having a very hard time trying to understand what your point is in this paragraph or what you are saying. I understand that you disagree with my point about PP beating Hbox. If you can tell me specifically what the issue is then I will respond to that.

 

[forward]

Jman and Armada played at No Johns before Apex and Jman lost. He's probably has the best chance to as Fox though (except maybe M2K or Mango).

My mistake then. I was under the impression that Jman beat him at that tournament. I had also read in one of Armada's post that Jman makes the peach vs fox match up very difficult, so I assumed that Jman was beating him.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Your first paragraph states that PP... actually, it doesn't state anything other than people who have not played PP since he improved. I'm not sure what your point is.

For the second paragraph you state there are people who may still be able to beat Axe. This is true. These players may beat Axe. I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make about Axe fighting only spacies at Apex. In any case, to state that Axe may lose to players he previously lost to can also be applied to PP. PP may lose to players he has lost to. This is irrelevant.



I'm having a very hard time trying to understand what your point is in this paragraph or what you are saying. I understand that you disagree with my point about PP beating Hbox. If you can tell me specifically what the issue is then I will respond to that.

Think of it this way, who have BOTH PP and Axe fought that PP HASN'T beaten at least once, between them? I can't think of anybody, get back to me if you can.

And the way Hbox applies in all of this is that yeah sure there's great players who some of them have beat but both have not faced such as Axe beating DaShizWiz where PP hasn't ever played DSW. But in that same way, PP has beaten Hbox before and Axe hasn't played him. Zhu is another impressive win by PP where Axe hasn't faced him so by stand alone independent wins of a certain player fighting BOTH of them, which is more impressive?

I can also use the note of that PP beating players that Axe HAS lost to such as Linguini(Pretty sure PP hasn't lost to Linguini since Tipped Off 4, correct me if I'm wrong though).

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

6. Axe - Played him yesterday and I have never seen anything like it. In my prime, DSW was the tech falco. In this day it is Axe. I think he is going to create new standards for the Falco metagame. Axe's tech skill is, IMO, on par with silent wolf and Lovage. Axe is gaining a lot of experience now, so his mind is able to keep up with his hands, or in other words, he backs up his tech skill with smart play. It is... just astounding.
7. Jman - He can beat Armada, but not M2K or Axe, so I can't him place him higher than those two for that reason.
8. PP - Anyone else below him I'm sure he can beat.

I'd put PP on top of Jman at least. It really just comes down to the fact that Jman is oldschool / doesn't care nearly as much anymore, while PP is the exact opposite. Axe / PP are the same in that I don't really see them losing to anyone but the people listed above them / each other with Axe maybe having an upper hand in the head to head. Ahhh I love not having to do this anymore / just speculating, so much less pressure =DD

 

[Dr Peepee]

I haven't played Linguini in tournament since TO4.

Edit: LOL <3 zhu.

 

[P.C. Jona]

i dont think you would lose to him anyways so thats not important

pp has done more then axe has so he should have the upper hand on the list

 

[Iron Dragon]

I haven't played Linguini in tournament since TO4.

Edit: LOL <3 zhu.

You played him in pools at TO4 and then pools at RoM2 I thought....

 

[Dr Peepee]

Waffles uploaded some friendlies of us and that was it.

 

[Theftz22]

I can't decide which i want more:

Axe to go Falco and live to his full potential

or

Rep Pikachu and be able to develop a low tier and prove viability

 

[Iron Dragon]

Waffles uploaded some friendlies of us and that was it.

I see that it's named friendlies now.

Last I checked I thought he named em pools *shrug*

 

[JBM falcon08]

Right now
1.HBOX
2.Armada
3.Amsah
4.Axe
5.Axe
6.Dr. PP
7. Kage (He beat mango) but seriously he's my favorite pro.

I have a hard time giving Axe 4th. I can't really see axe being 2nd best in the U.S right now. He's very good but a pika as 2nd best in the country? Someone has got to step up and show its unrealistic for Pika to win. Axe is too good.

Bias opinion

1.Mango
2.Hbox
3.Armada
4.M2k
5.Amsah
6.Axe
7.Jman
8.Dr. PP

I put m2k before Amsah due to 2 reasons. One b/c im american and the other because M2k has accomplished more/ done more for the melee community. You could argue m2k does better vs hbox, but losing isn't winning, and a loss is still a loss no matter how bad.

Im hoping Amsah can show up to a tourney where our U.S representitives will be at so we can get a better idea about him.

Mango really needs to show up and show everyone why he's #1. No more drunk johns. You drink before a tourney and feel like ur gonna half-*** a tourney thats your problem. A loss is a loss.

Kage needs to show more ganon ****.

 

[cykofox]

Hungrybox is better than Mango now. Mango can't win a national tournament without going jigglypuff.

 

[P.C. Jona]

your stupid if you think mango isnt the best

 

[CloneHat]

Hungrybox is better than Mango now. Mango can't win a national tournament without going jigglypuff.

That makes so little sense. You basically made a claim and than proved it meaningless.

HBox has only ever won a major tournament as Puff, and Mango beats his Puff.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Hungrybox is better than Mango now. Mango can't win a national tournament without going jigglypuff.

have you not seen the MM matches between mango's fox and hbox's puff?

and have you not seen hbox admit mango's fox is better than him?

how do people miss things like this....

 

[Tee ay eye]

1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan
6. Mango
7. Hungrybox

Spoiler

1. Mango
2. Hbox
3. Armada
4/5. Amsah/Mew2king
6/7/8. Axe/Wobbles/Dr. Peepee

 

[Druggedfox]

Hungrybox, I'm going to go back to the first/second page for a second:

How does it feel to have your rests called lucky? I'm just curious, if you ignore random BS like that, or think about it at all.

 

[strawhats]

have you not seen the MM matches between mango's fox and hbox's puff?

and have you not seen hbox admit mango's fox is better than him?

how do people miss things like this....

to add insult to injury mango and hbox traded 3-2 sets in their falco/puff MM

@ cykofox: Mango is the best, accept it and move on.

 

[forward]

Haha Zhu, I feel you man. A few things have been brought to my attention now in regards to Jman so I think it is fair to place him below PP, I would agree with that.

I have a few points to get to.

Jona: PP may have a better tournament record, but Axe has done more in terms of Melee metagame by taking Pikachu as far as he has. I also think that Axe's Falco right now is the most unique, so I believe he will advance the Falco metagame significantly too.

IronDragon: As I said before, if one places PP above Axe for beating Hbox because Axe has not beaten Hbox then it only makes sense to place PP above Amsah and Armada because they have not beaten Hbox. If not, then the choice to put PP above only Axe is an arbitrary choice, why stop there?
I also don't take it much into consideration because PP has a losing record against Hbox, 1 win to several losses. With that said, I think the win shows more of PP's potential rather than his actual skill.

Potential is one of those subjective things that are fun to speculate. I'm more aware of Axe's potential than PP's because I have first hand experience with Axe. With PP, I don't. So, by judging Axe from the games I have played against him to judging the videos I have seen of PP, I see more potential in Axe's Falco because his style is more unique, and will therefor be harder for opponents to play against.

 

[P.C. Jona]

1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan
6. Mango
7. Hungrybox

Spoiler

1. Mango
2. Hbox
3. Armada
4/5. Amsah/Mew2king
6/7/8. Axe/Wobbles/Dr. Peepee

lol @ wobbles

 

[Niko45]

all I know is 2011 is pc JONA's year

 

[Iron Dragon]

Haha Zhu, I feel you man. A few things have been brought to my attention now in regards to Jman so I think it is fair to place him below PP, I would agree with that.

I have a few points to get to.

Jona: PP may have a better tournament record, but Axe has done more in terms of Melee metagame by taking Pikachu as far as he has. I also think that Axe's Falco right now is the most unique, so I believe he will advance the Falco metagame significantly too.

IronDragon: As I said before, if one places PP above Axe for beating Hbox because Axe has not beaten Hbox then it only makes sense to place PP above Amsah and Armada because they have not beaten Hbox. If not, then the choice to put PP above only Axe is an arbitrary choice, why stop there?
I also don't take it much into consideration because PP has a losing record against Hbox, 1 win to several losses. With that said, I think the win shows more of PP's potential rather than his actual skill.

Potential is one of those subjective things that are fun to speculate. I'm more aware of Axe's potential than PP's because I have first hand experience with Axe. With PP, I don't. So, by judging Axe from the games I have played against him to judging the videos I have seen of PP, I see more potential in Axe's Falco because his style is more unique, and will therefor be harder for opponents to play against.

Why do you sit there saying Axe will advance the Falco metagame the most even though you've never played any other major Falco in tournament BESIDES Axe's? That sounds WAYYYYYYY too much like speculated bias. Seriously, maybe THIS is a reason you should travel out of state again if nothing else.

 

[P.C. Jona]

the only other falcos worth mentioning are
pp
zhu
chops
and shiz

after that i cant really think of another one

so really it comes down to pp since the other ones arent really that far up there

except maybe zhu but idk

 

[LLDL]

your stupid if you think mango isnt the best

"you're" stupid

 

[P.C. Jona]

woooooooooooow

 

[forward]

Why do you sit there saying Axe will advance the Falco metagame the most even though you've never played any other major Falco in tournament BESIDES Axe's? That sounds WAYYYYYYY too much like speculated bias. Seriously, maybe THIS is a reason you should travel out of state again if nothing else.

I've played almost every major Falco in tournament. The only that I haven't played is PP, Rory, and a few international falcos.

I already admitted that what I say is bias, along with what everyone else says. Bias is unavoidable and therefor the best you can do is have equal representation.

I say that I think Axe will advance the metagame because he is extremely technical and he has the smarts to back it up. The combination of the two will, IMO, advance the Falco metagame more than a Falco who specializes in one area.

If this sounds like speculated bias, that's because it is.

If I travel out of state, it will be to support Axe.

 

[P.C. Jona]

smart and technical falco = mango

if axe starts reading people like mango then yea he'll definitely have the one up on pp

 

[V3ctorMan]

Axe's Falco...is scary.. >_>; yet arguably the funnest/most difficult.. I've ever had to play.. and I've played some good Falcos.. >>

EDIT: Forward does indeed need to come back, and support Axe/Taj and AZ and it's players.. ^^

 

[Dr Peepee]

I plan on proving you wrong, Forward.

Though I do respect your opinion.

 

[LLDL]

Lol i like how this became falco discussion. Anyway, I dont think sw lovage are that technical, no offense meant. Technical means being able to do whatever you want to do during a tournament match. They dont seem to even pick falco in tournament and when they do, I don't see them do anything that I can't do myself. That being said, I think shiz is the most skilled/technical falco. [bias] However, I think PP is the most versatile and the Falco that inspiring falcos should model themselves after.

 

[P.C. Jona]

i think stryc9 is the most technical falco

hes nuts

 

[V3ctorMan]

Axe's Falco doesn't have too much representation.. because as "most" of you know.. he does NOT want to be recognized as a Falco player.... He's humbled/admired that people like/respect his Falco, and how unique/amazing/technical/smart.. it is.. He has a perfect balance of all of these... He's as Unique.. as PC's.. Smart like Forwards/PP/, very technical like DSW, he has all of these traits in his Falco...

but granted he WANTS to be known/remembered as a Pikachu.... no matter how good his Falco may/will become....

 

[Theftz22]

PP: smartest
Axe: fastest
Shiz: technical
Chops: ?? (haven't seen much idk)
Mango: mango

Falco: most overused

 

[LLDL]

i think stryc9 is the most technical falco

hes nuts

taught him everything he knows.

 

[forward]

I plan on proving you wrong, Forward.

Though I do respect your opinion.

Good **** man, give us some good matches.

Chain-ace: For me, it is Axe's platform game that I say he is more technical than Shiz. His precision and speed of wavelands is unparalleled.

I would agree though that people should model PP more than Axe, though, because what Axe does is so incredibly difficult and unrealistic that it's better to model a more manageable style that focuses on good decisions, spacing, consistent combos, stage control, etc.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Dr Peepee vs Mew2King rematch NEEDS to happen sometime soon.

 

[P.C. Jona]

pp would tap

 

[Stev]

Dr Peepee vs Mew2King rematch NEEDS to happen sometime soon.

M2K's retired =(