The Best Players.

[Merkuri]

Why is there a popular notion that Jman > Zhu? I think there is more evidence that Zhu > Jman.

 

[otg]

Man some of these lists are so ********, it's disturbing.

 

[Slhoka]

3. Armada- [...]In his country he reigns supreme only losing occasionally to Amsah? (last part may be incorrect)

Incorrect indeed. In his country, Armada never won against Amsah.
Mostly because Sweden haven't hosted a international tournament since 2008.
[/hair-splitting]

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I worder how many people have played all these guys and are talking about them?

 

[Quic]

In his country he reigns supreme only losing occasionally to Amsah? (last part may be incorrect)

Europe isn't a country, and if you meant Sweden Amsah isn't from Sweden, and they barely host international tournaments.

I worder how many people have played all these guys and are talking about them?

Seeing how good somebody is in comparison to others doesn't require experience against those people, if it did I wouldn't be able to talk about sports I don't compete in at top professional level but watch regularly either.

 

[ranmaru]

Shroomed has kinda been ****** west coast, along with Lucien for that matter. They could very well be up there with Jman and the others, however they were supposed to prove it at rom3 but for whatever reason they're not going anymore. Norcal backing out killed a lot of hype for rom3 imo.

They don't have the money. You need money to pay to play. oh wait...

I might be wrong... (sorry, I somehow confused shroom's situation with PP's... lol) I think PP can't go either : [ (I confused)

 

[Codi]

l
And as much as I love Shroomed's doc, I have no idea why you put him up there. He hasn't placed in the top in any national tournies to my knowledge.

well jman and shiz are retired idk about zhu last i saw of him was apex? or the tournament before apex. atm shroomed has been ****** west coast or placing at least top 5 which is the only reason i put him in.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Shroomed is really good, and i am looking forward to him playing at a national soon.

Its also safe to say that you can't put him in the top 10 though because he hasn't proven himself at a national

 

[Nihonjin]

Seeing how good somebody is in comparison to others doesn't require experience against those people

Yes it does. If the differences are obvious (ex. Comparing Mango to my sister) then people can call it easily, but pretty much everyone arguing about M2k/Armada, M2k/Me etc, have no idea what they're talking about.

if it did I wouldn't be able to talk about sports I don't compete in at top professional level but watch regularly either.

That's just it, you can't. You only think you can.

 

[Pi]

Lol
there's so much to factor in

How patient they are, how hard they punish, how they approach, how they punish approaches, how they bait approaches, how they edge guard, how they recover, how they respond under pressure, how they adapt, how they cover options, how they combo, how they finish the combo's, gimps, tech skill (consistency), matchup knowledge,

 

[P.C. Jona]

@amsah

thats kinda true, but results speak for themselves regardless of anything.

 

[Merkuri]

Yes it does. If the differences are obvious (ex. Comparing Mango to my sister) then people can call it easily, but pretty much everyone arguing about M2k/Armada, M2k/Me etc, have no idea what they're talking about.



That's just it, you can't. You only think you can.

Can't really argue with this.

BTW Amsash any chance you're coming to Pound 5 or Genesis 2? We miss that Shiek.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

Can't really argue with this.

BTW Amsash any chance you're coming to Pound 5 or Genesis 2? We miss that Shiek.

wtf are you talking about "we"? lol jk <3 amsah

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

They don't have the money. You need money to pay to play. oh wait...

I might be wrong... (sorry, I somehow confused shroom's situation with PP's... lol) I think PP can't go either : [ (I confused)

Yeah PP's not going.

 

[Quic]

Yes it does. If the differences are obvious (ex. Comparing Mango to my sister) then people can call it easily, but pretty much everyone arguing about M2k/Armada, M2k/Me etc, have no idea what they're talking about.



That's just it, you can't. You only think you can.

Hmm, I'm still not sure if I agree with that first point, I agree when you appoint it to me, or some other person who is generally not good at the game we're talking about, but I think if a fairly objective person(As far as that holds up for anyone), who is a great player, say Hungrybox or someone would have never played against both you and M2K, but watched plenty of videos of both of you makes an opinion about who he thinks is better, I reckon his knowledge of the game itself would make that opinion valid.
**** I structured that horribly, that was 1 sentence in total =/.

On the second point, yes, I think you are correct actually.

 

[Ballistics]

Hungry box is the best because hes gotten past what holds most of you people back. The cool factor. Mango, DSW, SS, M2K, AXE, Amsah, DrPP, Armada and most melee players all play their characters because at some level they think that their characters are cool and they enjoy playing them. They wouldn't play jigglypuff because to them jigglypuff isn't fun. However, HBox has no such reservations and plays cautiously and effectively and craps on all of your cool characters.

Good stuff Juan.

 

[choknater]

i would really love to play hbox in a lot of matches.

i've done long uphill battles before

m2k likes to play sheik vs your falcon on infinite stocks

i've done that for like 3 hours. rather than getting frustrated and calling it a bad matchup like a scrub, i tried really hard and that m2k training really taught me how to space better, be patient, and zone. (i've concluded that yes it is a bad matchup. but i got loads better at it ) i think a style like hbox's would be amazing to train against

especially because i never lose to puffs <3

 

[Nihonjin]

Hmm, I'm still not sure if I agree with that first point, I agree when you appoint it to me, or some other person who is generally not good at the game we're talking about, but I think if a fairly objective person(As far as that holds up for anyone), who is a great player, say Hungrybox or someone would have never played against both you and M2K, but watched plenty of videos of both of you makes an opinion about who he thinks is better, I reckon his knowledge of the game itself would make that opinion valid.

I wasn't including the people on that level of play of course.

Hungry box is the best because hes gotten past what holds most of you people back. The cool factor. Mango, DSW, SS, M2K, AXE, Amsah, DrPP, Armada and most melee players all play their characters because at some level they think that their characters are cool and they enjoy playing them. They wouldn't play jigglypuff because to them jigglypuff isn't fun. However, HBox has no such reservations and plays cautiously and effectively and craps on all of your cool characters.

Good stuff Juan.

No I don't.

Yes, I think Sheik's cool.
Yes, I enjoy playing her.

But that's not why I play her.

 

[Ballistics]

No I don't.

Yes, I think Sheik's cool.
Yes, I enjoy playing her.

But that's not why I play her.

Go on... Why do you play her?

 

[Deleted member]

You might know better, but does Hbox not enjoy playing Puff? I've never heard of a player playing a character they didn't enjoy playing.

Also, who plays their character because that character is "cool"? I think we'd have a lot more Mewtwo mains if that were the case.

 

[Nihonjin]

Go on... Why do you play her?

Brain compatibility.

 

[Ballistics]

Brain compatibility.

loool great answer

 

[Niko45]

I don't get it...so all top players should really be playing puff but they want to be cool? I think the top players are playing who they feel gives them the best chance to win for them personally.

 

[Druggedfox]

Amsah, if you had to pick a main purely off who you enjoy playing the most (this is for any top player to answer) who would you pick then?

 

[tarheeljks]

Yes it does. If the differences are obvious (ex. Comparing Mango to my sister) then people can call it easily, but pretty much everyone arguing about M2k/Armada, M2k/Me etc, have no idea what they're talking about.



That's just it, you can't. You only think you can.

meh many (of the best) sports coaches/analysts/etc weren't particularly good players relative to elite or even good players. however, they did spend a great deal of time around their respective sports and are familiar with what goes on at the highest levels of play even if they weren't able to achieve that level of individual greatness. it is certainly reasonable and even prudent to defer to those w/said experience i but they are by no means infallible


edit: i don't think my point was clear, but i agree w/you to an extent. it makes sense to put more stock into rankings amongst players who have played each other,(although then we must account for bias amongst them imo) but not to the degree of ignoring analysis of someone who isn't top x in the world. being a better player doesn't always constitute a having better understanding of the game (no i'm not claiming to have that level of understanding or anything close to it)

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah, if you had to pick a main purely off who you enjoy playing the most (this is for any top player to answer) who would you pick then?

I'd switch between Sheik & Falco every other week.

meh many (of the best) sports coaches/analysts/etc weren't particularly good players relative to elite or even good players. however, they did spend a great deal of time around their respective sports and are familiar with what goes on at the highest levels of play even if they weren't able to achieve that level of individual greatness. it is certainly reasonable and even prudent to defer to those w/said experience i but they are by no means infallible


edit: i don't think my point was clear, but i agree w/you to an extent. it makes sense to put more stock into rankings amongst players who have played each other,(although then we must account for bias amongst them imo) but not to the degree of ignoring analysis of someone who isn't top x in the world. being a better player doesn't always constitute a having better understanding of the game (no i'm not claiming to have that level of understanding or anything close to it)

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, people do not understand all the factors that come in to play at a higher level than they're playing themselves.

As for bias, in my statement I was assuming people were honest enough to not let their personal preference affect their objectivity. Though I know that in reality that doesn't really work. (Which is exactly why we don't accept one persons opinion as fact, even if it's Mango)

 

[tarheeljks]

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, people do not understand all the factors that come in to play at a higher level than they're playing themselves.

i guess this where we disagree. i think a player in any game or sport can fully comprehend the strategy and tactics of better players, yet be incapable of performing the same maneuvers. it's less pronounced in games than in sports (e.g. phil jackson vs michael jordan in terms of basketball knowledge vs basketball ability), but it exists. again, i agree that there is typically a threshold or spectrum of competence below which people should be more willing to listen and less apt to offer naive insight, but of course that begs the question "how good is good enough?"

anyway, sorry for the derail

 

[Mizar]

i guess this where we disagree. i think a player in any game or sport can fully comprehend the strategy and tactics of better players, yet be incapable of performing the same maneuvers. it's less pronounced in games than in sports (e.g. phil jackson vs michael jordan in terms of basketball knowledge vs basketball ability), but it exists. again, i agree that there is typically a threshold or spectrum of competence below which people should be more willing to listen and less apt to offer naive insight, but of course that begs the question "how good is good enough?"

anyway, sorry for the derail

Isn't this the exception he was talking about?

 

[Theftz22]

Not playing a character you enjoy would be ********.

Unless your trying to make money.

 

[tarheeljks]

yah, i think we're (or maybe i'm ) are getting into semantics so i'm going to stop b/c i definitely have no business posting rankings itt i would be interested in talking about this more via pm if anyone wants to continue though

 

[Stev]

Not playing a character you enjoy would be ********.

Unless your trying to make money.

You could play a character because you get more success with that character. Thus you use that character for the enjoyment of winning, not for the enjoyment of playing the character.

 

[Theftz22]

Doubt it would be worth all that time spent playing a character you don't enjoy unless you become like top 5 or something.

 

[GREENTHUMB]

1. Mango
2. HungryBox
3. Armada
4-5. Amsah/M2K (either or depending on game version and matchup)
6. Dr. PP
7-14.(no order) SilentSpectre, Axe, Zhu, Jman, Shiz, Wobbles, Lucky(in rare form),

honorable mentions include Darkrain, ColBol, Zgetto, PC Chris

 

[GREENTHUMB]

oh and I've been recently really impressed with HACK.

 

[Druggedfox]

How good is beast mode lucky, I wonder.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

How good is beast mode lucky, I wonder.

******** good. One of the only people Mango has ever admitted to being scared of, good.

 

[Charlesz]

Too much crap here

New list:

1. Roneblaster
2. PC Jona
3. ICG
4. Animal
5. BCAL when he wobbles

 

[otg]

Too much crap here

New list:

1. Roneblaster
2. PC Jona
3. ICG
4. Animal
5. BCAL when he wobbles

ahhhh

****

 

[Charlesz]

I MISSED OTG'S DOC FML "bows head in shame".

 

[P.C. Jona]

pc jona is too low imo

otg's doc is gay tier