The Best Move?

[zeldspazz]

as far as u smashes go g&ws is by far the best balance between speed and damage. And after that i'd probably prefer ivysaurs over lucas... not that i would ever play as ivysaur

Zelda's is the best Usmash!!!

Lol, Ivysaur is actually my favorite Pokemon. I seem to always like the bad over the good char:

Zelda > Sheik
Samus > ZSS
Ivysaur > Squirtle and Char.
Link > Toon Link

I must be screwy >.<

 

[lil cj]

Zelda's is the best Usmash!!!

Lol, Ivysaur is actually my favorite Pokemon. I seem to always like the bad over the good char:

Zelda > Sheik
Samus > ZSS
Ivysaur > Squirtle and Char.
Link > Toon Link

I must be screwy >.<

I can understand Zelda over Sheik(Im the same way lol)
But you like Power Suit Samus over Zero Suit Samus??
ZSS is way hotter

 

[Brinzy]

If Samus' Zair was the best move then she would be s tier, but shes not.
There is no best move overall, it depends on what kind of move.
Like best dsmash is MK's
Best uair is ZSS
Best jab is Ike's
and so on.
I admit Samus has the best zair but not the best move in the game...thats just crazy.
Its nowhere near as good as Shuttle Loop....if your gonna pick the "best move" then your best bet is Shuttle Loop

****ty logic all around. You can have excellent moves and still be terrible because it's not enough to make you good. Samus's zair is incredibly beastly, and if you think that a tool that's provides pretty much everything the Shuttle Loop does except for invincibility frames (at the cost of range, ability to be abused, infinitely worse answer to projectiles, exposing your hurtbox even more, etc) is "nowhere near as good" as Shuttle Loop, you honestly need to review your criteria for what makes a move good.

And yes, there is a "best move overall" as much as you and anyone else want to believe otherwise. I'm not even gonna explain why because this should be a no-brainer.

Finally, "best uair/Dsmash/jab" is completely irrelevant because we're not asking for the best uair/Dsmash/jab. We're asking for the best move, period.



Snake's utilt is overrated as hell. Use its massive hitbox to punish and build up damage and suddenly it's a sorry *** kill move. Get someone to kill %s, and suddenly you're gonna have an extremely hard time landing it. Employ tactics to have someone fall into it and you could probably get away with that same tactic with his Fsmash.

It's a good move, but it's definitely not the best move in this game. Shouldn't be getting used more than five times in a match, because if the more it does get used, the less useful it becomes... unless you don't land it at all out of the ten times you use it, in which case you have other problems.. Same goes for stuff like Samus's dtilt, Ness's b-throw, etc.

 

[Laem]

as far as u smashes go g&ws is by far the best balance between speed and damage. And after that i'd probably prefer ivysaurs over lucas... not that i would ever play as ivysaur

Fox says hi.

Also, samus zair is best, then other stuff like falco laser mk dair SL etc

 

[Riickable]

Er... Zelda > Sheik.

She is far better IMO.

Now that I think of it, best move in the game is Ivysaur's Down+B

/thread

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda is far worse than Sheik. Don't make that mistake again. It's not even an opinion.

 

[Zeallyx]

Now that I think of it, best move in the game is Ivysaur's Down+B

/thread

lrn2(S)DI.

 

[Cirno]

MK's dair is no where near the best move in the game. It's only as good or slightly better than Marth's fair.

Unpunishable? Hardly, I know Pit's arrow game shuts that down immediately since MK's sword has laser priority. Not to mention several uairs out range it. And forgetting outrange, IC's simply jump in between them with their up airs.


It's an ongoing debate between Snake's grenades and MK's shuttle loop I think.

I personally say grenades since they give Snake stage control, camping ability, approaching ability, gets him out of chaingrabs and multihit moves, he has incredible control over them that no other projectile can offer, often times getting hit with a grenade in hand makes you take grenade knockback instead of the actual move knockback, and probably more than I can think of right now.


Falco's laser is amazing too though. Other moves which would have gone in my best (Like tornado, Snake ftilt,ect) just seems to get worse as the metagame progresses.

=/


Oh and for what it's worth, Zelda DOES have the STRONGEST uair in game. Best would go to MK hands down imo.

 

[j0s3ph]

My $0.02
Best spacing: MK Dair
Best kill: Snake Utilt
Best combo move: Diddy down-b, or if you argue that its not the actual move that combos, Diddy dash attack
Best approach: Samus Zair
Best damage racker: MK b
Best projectile: Olimar side-b or Falco b

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Tornado is good and it does see use in high levels of play, but Shuttle Loop is overall better in terms of versatility. I'd probably put tornado in the lower top 10.

Shuttle Loop gimps at alarmingly low %s, is a kill move on the ground, rejects most approaches because of the range and invincibility frames, goes right into a glide to keep it from being easily punishable, and it gives MK ways to safely recover back to the stage (ie Shuttle Loop into the ledge, or ground-cancelled Shuttle Loop).

Shuttle Loop is the "best" move in the game because it is just an incredibly versatile move.

A whiffed shuttle loop is way too punishable to be the best move. If you whiff it it gets punished 9 out of 10 cases. In fact, the glide animation doesn't keep it from being punishable - on the contrary. Shuttle Loop is punishable BECAUSE the glide animation leaves him completely open at a bad position.
A shielded Shuttle Loop can be punished by several KO moves, even if they are unsafe (because you can't miss MK afterwards) and situational ones like ROB usmash. It's not even that a good punishing move because it deals only 9% if it's fresh. It's very good for gimping and to KO at high % but that doesn't make it the best move...

Snake utilt is better for sure but I guess Falco laser is the single best move. ICs z-button alone doesn't break them btw so it's not #1 either. They need to use other moves to trigger the infinte. Diddy downB is good obviously but can be used against him =/

Edit: imo

1.) Falco laser
2.) Snake utilt
3.) MK dair / Snake ftilt
4.) MK uair
5.) Wario dair

Something like that...

 

[zeldspazz]

Oh and for what it's worth, Zelda DOES have the STRONGEST uair in game. Best would go to MK hands down imo.

I always had the impession that Snake's was stronger, although I never really looked into it. I may be wrong.

 

[Zeallyx]

My $0.02
Best spacing: MK Dair
Best kill: Snake Utilt
Best combo move: Diddy down-b, or if you argue that its not the actual move that combos, Diddy dash attack
Best approach: Samus Zair
Best damage racker: MK b
Best projectile: Olimar side-b or Falco b

So IYO the best move is?

 

[Nitrix]

Best move in the game? Diddy's down-B.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Omg...

Meta Knight

vB

Mash C-Stick Upwards

That wasn't hard, was it?

There ya go.

Dimensional Cape is a move that breaks the game wide open. IDC is banned at every tournament because it would turn SSBB into "Choose MK, get damage lead, IDC for 8 minutes". The Dimensional Cape is far and away the best move in the game-to make any attack even close to that good, you would need to make it fast, a OHKO, and have really, REALLY good range.

 

[:mad:]

There ya go.

Dimensional Cape is a move that breaks the game wide open. IDC is banned at every tournament because it would turn SSBB into "Choose MK, get damage lead, IDC for 8 minutes". The Dimensional Cape is far and away the best move in the game-to make any attack even close to that good, you would need to make it fast, a OHKO, and have really, REALLY good range.

Thank god there's a counter to IDC.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Incredibly situational, you have to find the MK, you have to cape them at the right time, and you have to use a character that (excluding IDC) absolutely gets ruined by MK.

 

[:mad:]

Incredibly situational, you have to find the MK, you have to cape them at the right time, and you have to use a character that (excluding IDC) absolutely gets ruined by MK.

Oh, you thought I was serious.

Then all went according to plan.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well played, sir. Well played.

 

[BSP]

Thank god there's a counter to IDC.

lol mario hard counters mk now jk jk, but it is funny to watch.

 

[Kitamerby]

Zelda's DownB is still the best move in the game.

10oldjokes.

Anyways, for the sake of arguments, I'm gonna go ahead and toss a few more out there.

Lucario's Aura Sphere is a very nice camping tool, a good spacing tool, is slow enough to outlast many spotdodges if improperly timed, has a GIGANTIC FREAKING HITBOX at higher %, becomes a RETARDEDLY powerful kill move at high %, is incredibly quick on release, can be shield canceled into aerials, grabs, or even Lucario's godly roll, doesn't have much startup at all, has nice pushback on Lucario, allowing him to possibly save him from punishment if he uses it too close to an opponent and they shield, drains shields like a ***** at higher %, knocks people back far in their shields at high %, can potentially shield stab if short hopped, can use the charge animation to "combo" into an aerial or near guaranteed grab, has a charge animation that completely ***** shields, is long range, can completely erase any ideas of horizontal recoveries due to the fact that it can go so far offstage and kill even earlier than usual, is able to be canceled into an airdodge, giving him an anti-juggle tool nearly as good as snake's grenades by b-reversing into an airdodge, increases in both priority and damage, allowing it to cancel out nearly all other projectiles in the game at the cap, can be charged without losing momentum, can be used in the air with virtually no downsides, allowing it to be used very very easily offstage (such as tons of commitment time or putting you in fallspecial, and Lucario can EASILY recover from using it offstage), and is just plain versatile. Also if performed as a Milln Sphere, it goes through reflectors, absorbers, and shields.


Pikachu's Quick Attack is the safest recovery in the game, and allows for quite possibly the most advanced movement capabilities and potential in the game, as well as being essential in various pseudo-infinites if done properly.

Marth's Dancing Blades are extremely spammable, has incredible range, acts as a stall to aide recovery, shield pokes, does great damage, kills sometimes if fresh, can combo into grab, is retardedly fast, and ***** spotdodges.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Zelda's DownB is still the best move in the game.

10oldjokes.

Anyways, for the sake of arguments, I'm gonna go ahead and toss a few more out there.

Lucario's Aura Sphere is a very nice camping tool, a good spacing tool, is slow enough to outlast many spotdodges if improperly timed, has a GIGANTIC FREAKING HITBOX at higher %, becomes a RETARDEDLY powerful kill move at high %, is incredibly quick on release, can be shield canceled into aerials, grabs, or even Lucario's godly roll, doesn't have much startup at all, has nice pushback on Lucario, allowing him to possibly save him from punishment if he uses it too close to an opponent and they shield, drains shields like a ***** at higher %, knocks people back far in their shields at high %, can potentially shield stab if short hopped, can use the charge animation to "combo" into an aerial or near guaranteed grab, has a charge animation that completely ***** shields, is long range, can completely erase any ideas of horizontal recoveries due to the fact that it can go so far offstage and kill even earlier than usual, is able to be canceled into an airdodge, giving him an anti-juggle tool nearly as good as snake's grenades by b-reversing into an airdodge, increases in both priority and damage, allowing it to cancel out nearly all other projectiles in the game at the cap, can be charged without losing momentum, can be used in the air with virtually no downsides, allowing it to be used very very easily offstage (such as tons of commitment time or putting you in fallspecial, and Lucario can EASILY recover from using it offstage), and is just plain versatile. Also if performed as a Milln Sphere, it goes through reflectors, absorbers, and shields.


Pikachu's Quick Attack is the safest recovery in the game, and allows for quite possibly the most advanced movement capabilities and potential in the game, as well as being essential in various pseudo-infinites if done properly.

Marth's Dancing Blades are extremely spammable, has incredible range, acts as a stall to aide recovery, shield pokes, does great damage, kills sometimes if fresh, can combo into grab, is retardedly fast, and ***** spotdodges.

REALLY. You would suggest that Lucario's aura sphere is the best move in the game? An incredibly easy to dodge, slow moving, slow to charge, and overall predictable projectile is the best move in the game?


Pikachu's QA is not the safest recovery in the game. He can be hit out of it, he can be reflected, and he can be gimped out of it.

Marth's dancing blades doesn't have incredible range, the stall is not a recovery move in itself, it only shield pokes on a small shield, it does good damage, it shouldn't be used as a kill move, marth's grab is not very great, its fast sure, and it shouldn't be spotdodged.

 

[Stroupes]

Lucario's Aura Sphere is a very nice camping tool, a good spacing tool, is slow enough to outlast many spotdodges if improperly timed, has a GIGANTIC FREAKING HITBOX at higher %, becomes a RETARDEDLY powerful kill move at high %, is incredibly quick on release, can be shield canceled into aerials, grabs, or even Lucario's godly roll, doesn't have much startup at all, has nice pushback on Lucario, allowing him to possibly save him from punishment if he uses it too close to an opponent and they shield, drains shields like a ***** at higher %, knocks people back far in their shields at high %, can potentially shield stab if short hopped, can use the charge animation to "combo" into an aerial or near guaranteed grab, has a charge animation that completely ***** shields, is long range, can completely erase any ideas of horizontal recoveries due to the fact that it can go so far offstage and kill even earlier than usual, is able to be canceled into an airdodge, giving him an anti-juggle tool nearly as good as snake's grenades by b-reversing into an airdodge, increases in both priority and damage, allowing it to cancel out nearly all other projectiles in the game at the cap, can be charged without losing momentum, can be used in the air with virtually no downsides, allowing it to be used very very easily offstage (such as tons of commitment time or putting you in fallspecial, and Lucario can EASILY recover from using it offstage), and is just plain versatile. Also if performed as a Milln Sphere, it goes through reflectors, absorbers, and shields.

Isn't Aura Sphere easy to shield against? It's pretty predictable, it may be slow enough to hit a spotdodger, but definately too predcitable to miss a shielding opportunity.

An incredibly easy to dodge, slow moving, slow to charge, and overall predictable projectile is the best move in the game?

That's why you normally wouldn't use the fully charged attack. Most Lucarios I've watched usually use B only for gimping/spacing/etc., and close to never fully charge their Spheres unless they have an extra few seconds.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nope. None of those break the game.

 

[BluePeachy100]

My opinion, tie between the Whornado, and the Sluttle Loop.

If we're going to talk damage racker, the Whornado. Talking Kill potential, Sluttle Loop. I obviously shouldn't have to explain why. Gimp combos, MK's Dair. For kills at relatively low percents(Tilts) Snake's Utilt. Kills at Relatively Low percents(Smashes) MK's downsmash. Combos leading to death, MK's Uair. Combo started, Diddy's dash attack. Approaching, Falco's laser.

In my opinion throws has to be the most difficult to choose from.

 

[Kewkky]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that my opinion for the best attack is Snake's ftilt... Huge freakin' disjoint, knocks you too far to counter him properly, a whopping 21% if fresh, can be spammed safely...

And best projectile? If it's a projectile by itself, Falco's laser... If it's coupled with the best move, Snake's grenades.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that my opinion for the best attack is Snake's ftilt... Huge freakin' disjoint, knocks you too far to counter him properly, a whopping 21% if fresh, can be spammed safely...

...B******s don't know about mah boi, Sawnik.

But against a general majority who don't have the running speed, I guess that works.

My vote still goes for Samus' Zair.

 

[Kitamerby]

Isn't Aura Sphere easy to shield against? It's pretty predictable, it may be slow enough to hit a spotdodger, but definately too predcitable to miss a shielding opportunity.

It really depends on how the Lucario is using it. In some situations, yes. In many situations though, no. A lucario who is planning on hitting your landing vulnerability frames should be experienced enough to time it so as you are unable to shield (actually not that hard). If a Lucario is SH Aura Sphering, the sphere may actually even shieldpoke off the top. If you are just standing there with a full shield and Lucario uses a sphere, he's most likely either too far away to be punished, or the sphere's recoil may push him out of danger itself. If he's spamming Baby Aura Spheres, then yes, it is quite possible to powershield them all, although the point is that it is still forcing reactions and slowing your approach. I could also use the powershield response against any projectile, and virtually any move, as well. Bananas, Marth's Fair, Lasers, they can all be powershielded reliably, so that throws that argument out the window. Note that these are only examples of a character that's on the ground, and thus able to shield. I could go on for days about its various uses in the air.

That's why you normally wouldn't use the fully charged attack. Most Lucarios I've watched usually use B only for gimping/spacing/etc., and close to never fully charge their Spheres unless they have an extra few seconds.

I actually had thought that most Lucarios should mostly be using fully charged Aura Spheres. Baby ones, while very useful for spacing against specific characters, should probably be used rarely to slow an approach and possibly tack on a few %, but the fact of the matter is that any situation a BAS would be used, a fully charged aura sphere would almost always be better (unless against a reflector or absorber when both characters are at a neutral position).

REALLY. You would suggest that Lucario's aura sphere is the best move in the game? An incredibly easy to dodge, slow moving, slow to charge, and overall predictable projectile is the best move in the game?

You obviously have not ever played a Lucario worth his salt. Aura Sphere is only easy to dodge when both characters are at a neutral position on the ground. There are many, many situations that can easily be forced by a Lucario in which he can use to safely and reliably connect with a charged Aura Sphere. Aura Sphere, while not as fast as Samus's charge shot, is actually not that slow, either. It seems to just be the right speed for Lucario's purposes. It covers ground quickly, but not too quickly that its immense size won't get in the way of a predicted roll or spotdodge, which is just plain nice. Oh, you just reminded me of something I forgot to mention: Lucario's Aura Sphere is the absolute easiest to charge offensive special in the game. (Squirtle's Water Gun allows him to maneuver as if he wasn't charging, making it the absolute easiest to charge special, but that's not offensive. =D) Due to the combination of its quick-release, the ability to keep his momentum in the air, the storing mechanism, it's very quick charge time, and various defensive options that can be immediately performed out of the (damaging) charge animation including airdodges, grabbing, shielding, and jumping(and by relation, aerials), I can safely say that if you can't find time to charge up Aura Sphere against anyone who isn't called Sonic or Falco on FD, you probably suck at Lucario. Lucario's aura sphere is only predictable if the Lucario is predictable. If the Lucario uses it properly to thwart horizontal recoveries, taking out landing frames, and punish misspaced moves, it can actually be very difficult to dodge.

Pikachu's QA is not the safest recovery in the game. He can be hit out of it, he can be reflected, and he can be gimped out of it.

I don't believe you have fought a good Pikachu if you don't seem to think that Pikachu's recovery is not safe. Pikachu's recovery has been safe since Smash 64, and with the addition of auto-sweetspots, it's even better now. It goes incredibly far on its own, can be angled twice to allow nearly impossible to predict recovery paths, can be canceled on the ground with a jump for absolutely no lag whatsoever, and is very, very quick. These five simple qualities make Pikachu's recovery definitely one of the hardest to gimp and/or intercept recoveries in the game, provided the Pikachu actually knows how to recover.

Marth's dancing blades doesn't have incredible range, the stall is not a recovery move in itself, it only shield pokes on a small shield, it does good damage, it shouldn't be used as a kill move, marth's grab is not very great, its fast sure, and it shouldn't be spotdodged.

The dancing blades are definitely long-ranged compared to most attacks in the game, the stall allows him to wait out invincibility frames as well as literally increase jump distance if used during a double jump, shield pokes pretty well with the down version on many characters, and can kill if neccessary on the more important lighter characters at not-that-extreme percents, and the spotdodge coverage is definitely a good quality for Marth, considering most of his attacks are simple, single sword swipes that would otherwise be rather punishable off of spotdodge or powershield.

 

[llamapaste]

Meta's shuttleloop. Fast, unpredictable, best recovery move in the game, you can attack out of it to protect yourself, use it out of shield, and gimp recoveries.

 

[Arora]

The best move is falcon punch just cuz it's pure awesome no other move has pure awesomeness except maybe foxs shine

 

[BluePeachy100]

Haven't we had enough Falcon jokes already? >.<

And Fox's shine.... a laugh... and a half.

 

[Throwback]

Samus' zair.

It can interrupt an air-dodge, and is the only zair fast enough to do so reliably. Also it shield-pokes very well.

It doesn't refresh the stale move counter though.

 

[2Dcomplex]

Ike's F-Smash is totally broken omg

 

[smashkng]

Ike's F-Smash is totally broken omg

It's sutuational due how slow and punishable it is. Waft is faster and near impossible to punish.

 

[shinyspoon42]

It's sutuational due how slow and punishable it is. Waft is faster and near impossible to punish.

Waft also takes 2 minutes to charge.

 

[smashkng]

Waft also takes 2 minutes to charge.

1 minute it's strong, 1:30 min-2:00 min it's amazingly powerful. Ike's forward smash is very hard to land against a really good player, while Waft can be used to punish moves with low lag.

 

['V']

Actually... Powershielding is the best move in the game. Seriously.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What the hell guys. This thread ended with the suggestion of the cape. No other single move could, given legality, stall the game indefinitely without a chance of danger.

 

[Kitamerby]

What the hell guys. This thread ended with the suggestion of the cape. No other single move could, given legality, stall the game indefinitely without a chance of danger.

In a legal match though, the cape is a piece of crap.

 

[Throwback]

The other cape is mad move as well.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

In a legal match though, the cape is a piece of crap.

I BEG YOUR PARDON?