The Best Move?

[flyingpork002]

Earlier today my friend and I were playing smash, and he is rather fond of Zelda (i know not top tier blah blah blah). He was making an argument that zeldas uair is the BEST move in the game, namely because it is somewhat unpunishable, quick, and a good killing move. I said that there must be a BETTER move somewhere, but couldn't think of one offhand. What do you guys think?

I realize that there could be numerous criterion that decides why a move is "best", so maybe give an explanation as to why you think that move is the best.

 

[Yonder]

MK Tornado? Snake F tilt? I dunno

 

[stingers]

Snake's Ftilt and MKs Tornado are too punishable to be the best move @.@

Realistically the best move is probably something like Falco's Laser.

 

[9Kplus1]

Mario's Dtilt ties with Shuttle Loop.

 

[:mad:]

Snake's Utilt is the best move in the game because it meets all of the criteria that makes a move good.

• Is it fast?
• Can it kill?
• Good priority?
• Is it safe?
• Does it have good range?

Other moves beat Zelda's Uair easily, like Meta Knight's Dsmash, Shuttle Loop, Dedede's Grab, and Marth's Fair. Her Uair isn't even... good, really.

 

[flyingpork002]

yeah, i came back and used snake next round, arguing that his ftilt was maybe the best move in the game. Mk's tornado is good but it lacks the killing power for it to be considered THE BEST i think. Perhaps his dshash is a contender

 

[stingers]

mad, those are really arbitrary criteria. Honestly, there is no set criteria that anyone can claim to be 100% definitive for finding out what makes a move "good".

Snake's Utilt has it's own problems. It's definitely punishable, only has range in front of it (oh right, and some useless vertical range ), and it loses all usefulness if you use it too much. Spamability should definitely be considered a factor.

 

[:mad:]

mad, those are really arbitrary criteria. Honestly, there is no set criteria that anyone can claim to be 100% definitive for finding out what makes a move "good".

Snake's Utilt has it's own problems. It's definitely punishable, only has range in front of it (oh right, and some useless vertical range ), and it loses all usefulness if you use it too much. Spamability should definitely be considered a factor.

I understand that, but since there is no set criteria, I just listed off some things that make a move good.

Since we're using the word 'best', it's probably going to be an opinion.

 

[flyingpork002]

in terms of spammability, falco's laser has its uses, but perhaps there should be more categories. Such as, best KILLING move, best combo move, and best spammer?

 

[stingers]

I agree there should be different categories. It's impossible to find a single, definitive best move in this game.

Too bad this isn't Melee. Fox shine ftw

 

[:mad:]

in terms of spammability, falco's laser has its uses, but perhaps there should be more categories. Such as, best KILLING move, best combo move, and best spammer?

A few weeks ago, Tactical was flooded with those same threads.

"Best killing move", "worst move in the game", "Overall best move in the game", and things of that nature.

None of them were useful, or really contributed anything. Since they were all trying to make 1 attack seem better than all the others, which is very hard to do.

 

[9Kplus1]

Based off of those criteria, Shuttle Loop beats Utilt. It's fast, has invincibility frames, has decent range and can kill >_>.

lol forum lag

 

[:mad:]

That's still debatable because both moves have their problems, it's just not worth trying to prove the other person wrong. >_>

The one thing we can give a definitive answer to -- Zelda's Uair doesn't come close to being the best move in the game.

 

[flyingpork002]

what do you guys think about best opener? I'm talking about things like a ness sh fair or a pika bolt or a mario fireball? diddy's dash is a good combo starter tho

 

[:mad:]

Expand on that, please. All of those moves are fairly different.

 

[flyingpork002]

I am talking about moves that you would generally use to advance on your oponent without getting hit, and to segway into comboing. Thats why i say things like a sh mario fireball or pika bolt, you hop towards your opponent then press b, which causes them to be unable to attack you as you advance, once you're close, you can wail on them. This is the same idea with a ness fair except that you would use it a bit closer since it's not ranged. watch the ness video on the "best vis for each character" thread and you will see what i'm talking about. What are some other moves you guys think would be good "openers"?

 

[stingers]

falco's laser @.@

 

[:mad:]

falco's laser @.@

This.

If you're talking about moves you can approach with...

 

[flyingpork002]

yeah, so thats a few acolades we've gotten about falco's sh laser. Now, to turn the tables a bit, what do you guys think is the WORST move in the game? In terms of quickness, end lag, situations in which it is usable/unusable, killing power, damage, anything you can think of? Pretty much, i'm asking if you had to pick one move, that you would tell someone to NEVER use, what would it be. And please refrain from the sheik down b jokes from melee...

 

[stingers]

i think we had this thread already

mario's dtilt

 

[:mad:]

Mario's Dtilt.

Yup, that was one of the threads a few weeks ago. Some people say Ganon's Utilt.

 

[JOE!]

In all seriousness, It may be MK's Dair

It is very quick, nice range, unpunishable, gimps, can rack damage, punishes...etc

 

[9Kplus1]

Mario's dtilt destroys galaxies.

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Ok, I think we all know the best move is >>> THE KNEE!!!

That is all. . .

 

[JOE!]

Mario's dtilt destroys galaxies.

owait, the best move is this:

get *****

 

[:mad:]

Ok, I think we all know the best move is >>> THE KNEE!!!

That is all. . .

I think we're all a little bit tired of knee jokes.

And for those of you that aren't, don't post them here please.

 

[smashkng]

Wario Waft cause it's incredibly quick, is disjointed and kills at ridiculously low percentages. Range of it doesn't matter cause Wario moves so quick in the air that his attacks looks have great range.

 

[Scipion121212]

My opinion:

MK Dair. Full hopped it is nearly unpunishable, has big knockback at high percents, gimps very well, and you can just hop over opponents head pressuring them with Dair without being punished (99% of the time)

Bowser´s UpB (Yes I wrote it). Arguably best Out of Shield move, starting on frame 6 and having invicibility on frames 1-5 (6?). Does 11 or 16 damage, is spammable, KOs, and near ledge is safe on block (ledge cancel). This IS one of the best moves.

Snake´s uptilt. KOs, fast and destroys whole characters (see jigglypuff).

Falcos laser (Ima chargin´ my lazah!!) seriously this is what makes falco top tier. great damage, stun, unpunishable (lol).

 

[Darky-Sama]

Wario Waft, 1-3 seconds before being fully charged.
Situational, but it's by far the trickiest and possibly one of the most powerful moves in the game if we're talking about kill potential.

 

[Brinzy]

Falco's laser? Snake's Utilt? WARIO'S WAFT!?


No, the move is Samus's zair.

First off, this move has excellent priority on it. You're not gonna beat it, ever. You may get a trade somewhere, but there's nothing you can do to it because it's super disjointed. Second, it is incredibly long-ranged. That thing has such excellent range on it, and I don't think anyone with a third of a half of their brain would disagree. Third, it auto-cancels, so you can use it at any range and get good results with it. Already you can see that this is an excellent move. It doesn't stop there.

This move can be used to recover. It doesn't put you into freefall, either. It can be used as a tool to help Samus defend against edgeguarders. Only good things in this area. It can KO and it does decent damage. Yes, 4% on a move like this is still decent, and it can even go to 7% with a sweetspot. Speaking of sweetspotting, this move can kill, so nobody can complain about that.

It refreshes the rest of Samus's moveset, which is much appreciated when it comes to someone like her. This move doesn't go stale, either. Again, that's a really nice thing to have on such a great move because it tells you to use it as often as possible, something that the developers of this game are against, apparently. It can take on things that most other moves either lose to or can be swatted out. Falco's lasers can be absorbed and reflected, and they also don't beat Samus out in anything but how hard they can be spammed and the range, and even then range is the only one that move has going for it over Samus's zair.

I don't need to go on. The rest of the moves in the game don't even compare to this.

 

[Mota]

When I read best move Snake Ftilt and Uptilt came to mind first.

Falco lasers for approach.

Samus Zair has amazing range but does little damage, can't really follow into anything except maybe another Zair or random rocket projectile.

 

[TreK]

Diddy's down B.

...And ICs's Z button.

 

['V']

Falco's Laser probably.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The best move= Sheiks Chain

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

1. Olimars B because it changes the by far worst character ever in Smash history in a good character.
2. Diddy's Bv because it changes an avarage character to a toptier.

 

[LuLLo]

I am forced to agree with Raphael, Zair is the best move when looking at criteria like priority/punishability/speed/range etc etc. The only problem Zair has is killing early, but it kills, so that's a plus. The real pro of this move lies in it's spammability and being virtually unpunishable. It also combines marvelous with her rockets and provides a really good pressuring game.

 

[Rajam]

...And ICs's Z button.

lololol i have to agree with this, despite its obvious problems ( range, punishable?, hard to learn the timings, the need of both Popo and Nana ), it ( will ) makes this character an S tier, instead of a... C or lower tier maybe?

At top levels of play, ICs grab is the best move in the game, hands down at least for me

 

[Stroupes]

Diddy's Banana + Glide Toss is easily the best move in the game. Simply because it can be followed up by many more moves than repeating the Banana->Glide Toss.

 

[thanortinzak]

How about Dedede's Bair?
It can kill, combo into a WOP, and isn't easy to punish either.

 

[Snail]

Snake's grenades are also extremely good, blocking approaches, chaingrabs, allowing escapes out of all sorts of stuff...

also Dedede's dthrow. That move alone nets him advantageous matchups over 2/3rds of the cast <_<